DE Event Impressions?

OK, guys. I'm considering participating in an upcoming DE event here in the Atlanta area and was wondering what everyone's impressions have been. Of those that have done it - what did you learn, was it worth it, was it "hard" on the car, etc...? Of those that considered it and didn't do it - Why not? I know that this may be better in the DE forum, but, before I went over there with all the race car drivers, I wanted to get the "general public's" opinion. Thanks!

Repeat after me: I own a Pcar, I own a Pcar, I own a Pcar. I was leery of doing a DE at first. I was afraid of accidents and breaking things but I figured that can also happen standing still at a stop light. I had a blast the 1st time out and am looking forward to my 3rd year doing it. I have a LONNNGGG way to go before I get to the Advanced guys and consider myself a tweener from Novice to Intermediate. I learned that things can happen really fast at speed and this has actually made a safer driver. I used to be one of yahoos that drove recklessly. I only do once in a while now. Actually DE's are one of the safest places I feel when driving. No one wants to crack their pride and joy. You might get a different story from the guy in the lowered Prelude with the huge muffler. I can honestly say the Porsche is one hell of a car without getting on the track. Going on the track takes it to a whole new level. The bad thing is it is quite addictive but do yourself the pleasure and try it. You'll like it!

Road Atlanta is one of the best tracks in the country.. I did my first DE there 4 days after getting my driver's license and have been doing them every since. It can be a bit intimidating, especially turn 12, but you'll get used to it and work your way into a rhythm where you feel at home... Its a blast, a real blast..

drive it like it was meant to be driven. dave cdi nnjr pca

Participating in DE's is the best way to familiarize yourself with the car and to further develop your driving skills. It will make you a better driver.

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+1 on Road Atlanta. Great track with a lot of changes. Turn under the bridge is awesome... FM

A DE will both humble you as a driver and amaze you in terms of what your car is capable of. Highly recommended even though I only survived through half of one (my alternator died at the end of day 1).

Do it, great learning experience on every level. You will get to know your car, yourself and meet a bunch of great people.

Do it! My 40th is my fourth 911 but it's the first one I've done a DE in. I've been close before but have always chickened out. My first and only DE (so far!) was in the rain and I almost didn't do it because of the wet track. In the end, it was a GREAT experience. It was unbelieveable to me how LATE I could brake on a wet track! You need to experience it!

Note that the instructors will strongly encourage you to take your time, driving within your own limits. Oddly, it is not a place to rush. Find the lines. Drive the lines. Work on balance and being smooth. There is no reason to hurt or bend your car.

Although you may be following other cars pretty close, the instructor will/should prevent you from doing anything stupid. Incidents tend to happen in the upper, non-instructed sessions where people are more experienced & able to take chances and get caught out, or forget about the physics for a split second or two. Instructors do NOT want an incident happening on their watch.

compared with the guys who show up in dedicated track cars you will drive like an old lady. My biggest concern was wear and abuse to my car when I did my 1st event. I measured my brake pads before and after a track weekend and the track days cost me 1mm of material. If you drive correctly your tires will not be that much worse for the wear. A warning- the track days can get addictive and you may start down a long road of mods for a few tenths of improved time. It starts w/ dedicated track tires, a roll bar, 5 point seat belts, speed mods and on and on. It's a blast and it will reduce your urge to race around on public roads because you will realize that on public roads you can't even come close to testing the limits of your car. Do it.

One other thing- if it's a P-car event it's cool to see all the P-cars and meet and talk to the drivers.

Don't do it unless you are ready slide down that slippery slope. My wife and I decided to try out this "DE" thing about 7 or 8 years ago in our 996CAB and then the slippery slope grabbed us.....a GT3, 2 race cars, a tow vehicle, and a trailer later I'd say we loved it In all seriousness though, if you want to really enjoy your car and understand what it was engineered to do, a DE is a fantastic (and safe) environment to learn that. Be prepared to fall in love all over again with your car.

It took me a long time to warm up to taking my car to a DE. I wish I hadn't waited. I really have enjoyed going to DE's. The great people who instruct at DE's are a bit too busy to get into much car dynamics detail. I found it really helpful to read up a bit to help understand what the instructors were trying to get me to do. All the books have too much detail for a first timer, but I still found them helpful. I liked Going Faster by Carl Lopez the best.

While I agree you could read up on dynamics I suggest you ask your instruct for that help. Not sure what you mean by too busy but I don't instruct WITHOUT explaining the physics of car control. It's the only way to truly understand what the car is doing. I both explain in my right seat instruction as well as giving examples with me driving (both correctly and incorrectly to illustrate). Remember, the instructors are there to help and most love doing it. All you have to do is ask

i bought a 2002 saab viggen,and with that came a two day driving school at road atllanta,needless to say it blew my mind!now that im a porsche devotee im looking forward to my local de events (new york area)cant wait,ive got the brand new michilin pilot ps2 waiting to wear out!

Don't do it. If you do, you will have so much fun you will become addicted like so many of us. There is NO 12 step program for DE addicts. It is a lot like sex, once you start..., well you know Aside from addiction, you will learn a lot about driving and what your car is capable of. You will drive more sensibly on the streets - all good stuff. Ask yourself, do you want to become an ADDICT!!?D

Being a new owner myself i can understand your hesitation. I am signed up for my first DE in Homestead in April and im really pumped. I have been dreaming of tracking a Porsche for years and finally have a chance to get some seat time. However the thought of damaging my new (to Me) 4S has made me think twice about it. DE events come up every other month on this track and I plan on attending all of them. I assume once the first one is out of the way any anxiety will dissapear and be replaced with a super silly grin and tons of good memories. Good luck bud.

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+1 DONT START!! first time - leave brain at home, dont think, just go and have fun.....(kind of like sex) once you start thinking, adjusting the car, planning, "working on" (insert area here) you wont be able to get thru the month fast enough.... all time slows down and you just keep focusing on "the 14th - yea, another day..... cant wait, this time I'm gonna..............." ah hell......... next time!

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+ infinity Get in touch with your Region�s Chief Driving Instructor or DE Chair. They likely have an FAQ doc for you to read and answer ~95% of your questions. You can also ask here of course. In short: it really is a blast, and IMO, you�re short-changing yourself and your car if you don�t take it to a DE. The capabilities of these cars vastly exceed most of our abilities, so no worries there. It�s an excellent way to learn about your car and your capabilities in a safe environment. You will be amazed.

SEE ^^^ perfect example.... Scott there was really happy with his beautiful white C4 - one of the best on the planet, truly amazing. went to a DE Sold the car and bought a track car (one of the best on the planet mind you) but still STAY AWAY !

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Let me be clear. I was not criticizing instructors. The instructors have been great. Awesome, really. Perhaps I should have said that the reading helped me to understand what they were trying to tell me. Try as they might, there is no way instructors have the time to go through things with a new driver to fully explain the dynamics involved and allow the neophyte to take it all in and understand it. No one really wants to spend a day's worth of classroom time; everyone really wants to get out on the track and experience it for themselves, including me. For me, doing some reading, even if I did not fully understand it all without some experience helped quite a bit. By the way, thanks to you and others for being an instructor. Every instructor I have met seems to really enjoy it, but even so, it is a massive time commitment for little tangible return.

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Ahhh, but I did not sell the C4S because it was a bad track car, it was great! I got the GT3 because�.. the wife said I could .

I gotta get me a new wife !!

I just started doing DEs and autocrosses a couple of years ago so I know where you are coming from. It's a lot of fun and the more you put into it, the more fun you will have. If you've never done anything like this before, it can help to read up about this part of the car culture so you know what to expect and how to prepare. Lots of info online but here are some other resources: Secrets of Solo Racing: Expert Techniques for Autocrossing and Time Trials by Henry Watts - An older book 1989), but still valid. Despite it's title, it has general information applicable to DE too. Has driving techniques but also includes information about what to expect at these types of events, how to prepare yourself, how to prepare your car, what to pack, equipment, how to behave, safety etc.. Go Ahead - Take the Wheel by Dave Gran - This books is for those wanting to get into amateur road racing on a budget. Not about driving, but about what to expect and what to do. How to budget for mods and repairs, how to prepare yourself and your car etc. Even if you never intend to drive the car in competition, a lot of the advice also applies if you get hooked on DE or autocross. Going Faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving by Carl Lopez - This is the Skip Barber manual that covers the physics of driving race cars. Can be information overload and confusing if you are just starting out. Skip Barber - Going Faster - DVD - The video which covers similar topics as the Going Faster book. Less detailed, but might be easier to digest. Speed Secrets I, II, III etc. by Ross Bentley - The series covers driving technique (earlier books) all the way to driver development and seeking professional sponsorship (later books). Basically a how-to book, maybe with slightly less numbers than Going Faster. If you are just starting out from zero, as a primer I would recommend reading Secrets of Solo Racing and watching the Skip Barber - Going Faster DVD (available on Netflix) prior to the DE.

I respectfully disagree, but different stokes.... As a track newbie, you will likely be overwhelmed with info and stimuli; just try to go in with an open mind and try to remain relaxed. Your instructor will / should provide you with the concepts you need to get started and still have a blast.

Yea, like Scott says, go open minded, and be there to have fun..... there is no real danger to you or you car (any more so than driving to work) You know yourself and they are not going to Make you go 300 mph..... your confort level will determin your speed - seriously, its all about fun and being in the machine you bought to enjoy and not destroy have fun and see ya next month

remember DE is not even close to "racing" it is best described and "lapping" where you drive your car around a course and make "laps" at a spirited pace - nothing more and NO RACING !

Go! Enjoy your car. It will help you realize the potential of yourself and your car. It's a fun way to see what YOU can do. There's no amount of money or reading that can make up for bad driving. Good driving through practice/experience will allow one to outperform people in the latest cool car that do not have practice/experience. Instructors can be helpful....although at my first DE I was in a 951 (50/50 weight distribution). My instructor had only early 911 experience. He instructed fine, but my car just handled way different than he expected (in a good way). It was fun too keep up with and even pass new cars in a 16 year old 951.

ATL if you want a pretty good idea of what your first event will be like and what to expect check out this link: http://www.rennsport.ca/images/Docum...manual_1.2.pdf It's the student manual for my region. Since it relates directly to DE, as opposed to racing books, it will be pretty close to what you'll experience at Road Atlanta. Best,

Don't do it...because you will love it. You can drive as you wish and learn much from various instruction. And the people you meet, generally, are a lot of fun. And right, Road Atlanta is awesome! Have fun!

In case you haven't had enough positive responses... And while it's already been said, after doing it, you'll kick yourself for not starting sooner.

'nuff said. I'm doing it! Registered today for the Peachstate DE event at RoadAtlanta, 24-25 April. I'm jacked!!

Way to go!!! You won't regret it.

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Not at first, but once the tire replacement bills mount . . . .

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Nice. There's a lot of material others have posted. Just think of one thing and enjoy the car and the day. Also, make sure your car is in good condition before going. I'm sure they require tech-ing the car, so just check and double-check everything yourself... fluids, brake pads, lug bolt torque, steering rack tightness, no torn boots, battery tight, no major CEL, etc.

And check if they require you to secure your oil fill cap...I remember seeing this for 996s on at least one PCA region's tech form. Apparently they can work themselves loose on the track & create a dangerous mess.

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Thanks, Bob. I'm doing my first DE next month. This is very helpful. Now I'll just trust my instructor to show me what I read. I haven't been this excited about driving a car since I was 14 and "borrowed" my older brother's manual Corvette one night when he wasn't home. First car I ever drove.

Any recommendations for the New England area?

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I'm going to Lime Rock Park, in northern CT. You're probably closer than I am. If you are a PCA member, check with your local. They will be happy to give you some guidance.

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Thanks, I'll check it out

Everyone, thanks so much for all the encouragement and helpful advice. I will definitely make the most of the experience and look forward to coming back with lots of photos and tales of the event. One last thing...do you recommend the HDPE insurance for the event? I assume yes?

My region, Hudson Champlain, is having a novice day at Lime Rock on April 17th (saturday). (We're having an advanced day on friday the 16th...) I hear it's customary to bring the chief instructor spare 996 parts that don't fit anything... Let me know if you want more details (about the event - not the bribes).

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Honestly, no. But that's my personal opinion. Damage in the beginner and novice groups, especially while there is an instructor in the car, is quite rare. Once you get to the intermediate levels, the sophomore (wise fool) levels, then speeds are much higher, and there is a much greater risk of "running out of talent." But, to each his/her own. You want to have fun, worry free day. If having the piece of mind that insurance gives is important to you, then maybe it's worth it.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think you should attend track schools, just not now. You will learn more quickly and be safer by getting a solid foundation before you ever get on track. Build that foundation by learning car control at lower speeds in a controlled environment first. Yes, I'm talking about autocross. Allow me to explain why.... When you arrive at a track school you are going to experience information (and sensory) overload. You will have to learn the track (which way to turn, when to brake, etc.), learn the various driving lines (the 'fastest' line, passing lines, etc.), and learn the organizer's trackday rules (where to grid, where to exit the track, passing rules, the various flags, etc.). At the same time, you're trying to absorb the actual driving lessons taught in the classroom, follow your instructor's advice to the best of your ability, not get hit, not hit anyone, not run off the track, figure out how to pass slower cars safely, remember to look ahead, remember to keep an eye on the corner workers/flag stations, rev-match perfectly, and drive the car as close to the limits as you safely can. Sound kind of hectic? It is! Of course it gets better and things start to click after several track schools but realize that while you are struggling in the deep end, you have paid good money, committed an entire weekend (usually), and put your car at risk when oftentimes you haven't mastered basic car control. What do I mean by basic car control? The basic elements are accelerating, braking, and corning, but it goes well beyond that. There's also shifting properly (smooth upshifts and near-perfect rev-matching on downshifts), transitioning (quickly yet smoothly going from accelerating to corning, cornering to braking, braking to accelerating, etc.), proper driving positioning, vision control (looking ahead as much as possible, using peripheral vision, situational awereness, etc.), and then coping with a car that has exceeded the limits of traction. Do you know how your car feels when you are at 11/10th's? What do you do when your car is understeering or oversteering at turn-in, during steady-state corning, or at turn-out? Can you learn about all these things at a track school? Absolutely. But realize that you have to work your way up to the limit gradually. At most tracks you're going to be exploring the limits of adhesion at relatively high speeds....in traffic....sometimes with little or no runoff. And you'll probably only have about 12-15 minutes per session of actual fast driving (this amount varies considerably with the school and the number of attendees that day). Why learn this sort of stuff here when you can learn it easier, more safely, and cheaper at autocross events? -Speeds are lower -You are running by yourself -Plenty of run-off room -You can spin out and make beginner mistakes nearly consequence-free -Costs are very low -Usually the time commitment is much lower -The transition rate is extremely high compared to most race courses Please don't misunderstand. I am not against track schools or track days. Nor do I think autocross is the end-all beat-all place to drive and learn. I think you can learn a lot from both. However, autocross is particularly well-suited towards driving a car to its absolute limits and beyond, cheaply, easily, and with almost no risk compared to any other venue. Learn the limits at slower speeds here and then show up to your first DE in a much better position to learn. If you aren't comfortable with the back end stepping out at 40mph while accelerating out of a turn in an empty parking lot, how are you going to feel when it happens at 70mph with a car on one side of you and a track wall on the other? It seems to me that autocross offers a much better way to build a solid foundation for your driving skills. So my advice to you would be to get a decent theoretical foundation first. smackboy1 had it right when he recommended 'Secrets of Solo Racing' and 'Going Faster!', two excellent books on the subject. Then attend some autocrosses. Ride as much as possible with the experienced drivers and ask them to ride along with you to critique your driving. Push yourself and your car. Resist the temptation to modify your car or fit stickier tires. Learn to get the absolute most out of what you already have. When you can exceed the car's limits without flinching, are reasonably quick, and the overwhelming panic of driving quickly has slowed down to a manageable rate THEN start attending track schools in the lowest group. You'll be in a much better position to quickly absorb what the instructors have to show you. Just my 2 cents.

All depends if you want to spend more money to hit the track earlier rather than later, even if you don't get the most out of it. Because it may take more time to absorb etc, but after the first day you are well on your way. No offense to autocrossers at all, but it's no comparison with hitting an actual racetrack with camber & elevation changes, plus the thrill of being on a professional circuit with your own car. My very first DE event was at Watkins Glen (fast & difficult track) with quite a large group, and I didn't know sh-t. I was nervous as hell when the instructor switched seats with me, but after lunch I was already learning a lot during each run. And I wouldn't classify myself as a quick learner by any means. Didn't even know how to heel & toe. If you want to be precise & calculating as you progress, autocross by all means...but if you just want to jump right in, head straight for the track and don't look back. Disclaimer: this comes from a tool who didn't even bother to keep a log of his first 6 track days.

As I said, "I'm all in" at this point. So, I guess I'll take my chances at the DE and try to have a little fun. No offense to the auto-crossers, just didn't think about that as an option. Guess I'll have to look into those events too!

ATL - FWIW, I hate autocross. You spend 8 hours at the course to get ten minutes on track. Besides I get "conefused"easily

I can second the autocross first thing. As for safety, high speed driving is always something to be very respectful of. Oh, and I believe autocross is harder on the car than DE. So, I've been doing DEs for four years now, and they've just decided I'm an instructor. This is a lot more dangerous than driving! Believe me, you'll learn a lot in both autocross and DE, including finding a few bad habits that could quickly KO you in a "sudden freeway experience." Instructor or not, I'm still in the process of making a careful transition from my rear drive 993 to my AWD Turbo S. Unlearning is in many way harder than learning. Everyone here who's said "You'll have a blast" and "It's addictive is right." One thing I never thought I'd dare do is drive high speed in the rain. Yep, that's me at Miller Motorsports Park -- doing 110 (clocked) in the rain! Remember, respect; and, keep the shiny side up.

Just DO IT!!! I have been driving P-cars at DE for 30 yrs (some say I still haven't learnt anything!) I, too, have a C4S, so a word. It gets really fast once you get over 5000 RPM. But, don't worry, the brakes are fabulous. I have driven Watkins Glen (upstate NY) for 30 yrs, so I know the brake points and turn in points. My first event there in 15 yrs, I was going faster than ever, and got to my "brake points" (from a '86 911), pushed on the brakes, and I still had 200 ft to go before the turn in!! The good thing about DE is that it forces you to keep on on the maintenance. Fluids are always fresh, filters are always news, brake pads are always thick. My advice, get a good helmet, good driving shoes, leave your ego at the gate, and drive SMOOTH. You will become a better and safer driver. Surfer161

The most important thing is to enjoy yourself. Your asking a world of different people with different things pressing on each with different life experiences. Dead skids and such are nice to know but you gotta learn some time. ake your camera for before, during and after.

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So true. Not even ten minutes. It's typically 3 sessions, ~50 secs each session. Then you stand in the heat afterwards "working" the cones. pfft.

Registration complete, awaiting confirmation! April 24-25 2010 DE @ Road Atlanta with Peachstate Region PCA Vehicle Info Need vinyl numbers? Dates 04/24/10 - 04/25/10 Location Road Atlanta Registrar [email removed] Event Status Pending. Note: You are registered for this event but not Confirmed. You must be Confirmed before you may participate. Payment Status Received Event Roster View Roster Forums See what others are saying about this event. Event Description Driver Education event at Road Atlanta utilizing the full 2.54 mile Grand Prix circuit. This will be a full format event with 2 instructed groups and 3 solo groups. Peachstate's 2010 DE Series is sponsored by J3 Motorsport, Inc. 4991 B.U. Bowman Dr., Suite 100 Buford, GA 30518. Phone: [phone removed] Email:[email removed]. PLEASE NOTE: receipt of payment is required to be confirmed for the event. Vehicle 2003 Porsche Carrera 4S Vehicle # #239 (purchase vinyl #s) This number is not approved until you have been Confirmed. Run Group/Class Group 1 - Beginner

You can make #s on the fixed side glass with masking tape... That's what I do when I bring the 996. Hopefully Peachstate will encourage instructors to email their students prior to the event to introduce themselves and start a dialog.