Talk me out of it.. Considering trade for M3

I have a Carrera 2, 1999, runs great, recent once-over by the mechanics gave no known issues at all. 102k miles Considering a 2002 BMW M3 for roughly and even trade. BMW has 60k miles, 6 spd, loaded with options, runs great. I'm really looking to trade because I prefer a 6spd over the tiptronic and I'd prefer a slightly more accomodating backseat. I also think I would feel a little less nervous about taking a long trip in a 60k M3 than in a 102k 1999 996? I may do a track day once per year but mainly this would be a 3rd car that will see some highway commutes and carpooling a few days a week. Feel free to (politely) tell me why I should keep the porsche.....

You seem sold and the M3 is a 6 speed, go for it. BUT, you will be back! Personally, higher miles do not scare me at all, Sold my 951 with 200K, car was always 100% reliable so thats a poor excuse, but if you need some more room and want a manual than why not.

I have always wanted one of those...

I like the last generation M3 as well. I think the Porsche looks better, drives better, and has more appeal than the M3, but I would not be offended having to drive one. And the M3 backseats are a little better for a carpool. Having been down this road, I found that the M3 is just a 3 series on steroids. I've had a 325, 330, and currently have a 335, and the M3 isn't any better on the in inside. It just goes faster (than the 325 and 330 anyway ). As for the miles, I wouldn't even think twice about it. If it's your turn to break down, you will. Regardless of whether you have 102,000 miles or a brand new car with 2 miles. -td

I've said this and offended many here...but if I could only have either my 996 or my M3 I'd keep the M3. Best all around car I've ever owned. Isn't as much of a Drivers car as the 996 is which is why I love being lucky enough to own both, but a great car none the less. One thing to consider. Make sure Inspection II has been done on the M3 in question. it's Right at the mileage where most cars require the second inspection which involves a pretty costly valve adjustment service (they're a solid lifter motor). The cheapest I found the valve adjustment by itself for was about $800. Ended up doing it myslef but if you've not done any work of the sort in the past I wouldn't suggest starting it out on the S54 motor. Andy p.s. Even without Ben around this will still be at least 5 pages.

I just traded in my '02 M3 for a '99 C2 . They are very similar, but do things very differently. The m3 is much more comfortable obviously, has a lot more power (power under the curve, not just peak HP). The steering, shifting, braking doesn't feel nearly as good in the m3 as it does in the 911, i will say that. I love the balance of the M3, it's much more user friendly, and forgiving at the limit compared to the 911. I encourage you to look at my m3. It has more miles than the one maybe you are looking at, but it is in really good shape (i do all the work myself, worked as a mechanic for several years). My car also doesn't have a sunroof, which is pretty rate. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/822083302.html

Quotes source post: 5762085

Thanks for the input. So you said you traded your 02 M3 for a 99 C2, does that mean you still have the M3 as the ad shows? If you were willing to work out a trade I might be persuaded, but I am admittingly lazy when it comes to selling the car and dealing with all the tire-kickers (especially on craigslist) so when a trade arose is when I became more interested. I've been selling motorcycles on craigslist occasionally and I'd estimate 1 out of 15 potential buyers are actually seriouc enough to even come look at the bike. The rest set up appointments then pull a no-show, or just want to send 20 emails back and forth without any serious intentions to buy.

Before I purchased my 01 C4, I also considered an M3. A big reason why I preferred the Porsche was because it has a very unique and *timeless* look. In my (humble) opinion, BMW's looks just don't age nearly as well. However, you mention that would be trading from a tip to a manual. That, in itself, is huge! Without realizing, I don't think I became a "driver" until I learned standard with my current C4.

Quotes source post: 5762046

The Inspection II has not been done, but after talking to the mechanics who looked up the items covered via Inspection II (they listed all items covered to me over the phone) it did not include a valve adjustment? It seems like I read somewhere that the coil packs should be replaced as well as the valve adjustment at the 60k service though? However I found this service description which matches the mechanics and has no mention of the valve adj or coil packs either... http://www.bimmerzone.com/inspection.htm I also should add that if my 996 was a 6-spd I doubt I'd be considering the trade as heavily. Was considering a Cadillac CTS-V too, but I don't think resale would be as good and I'm not sure about the reliability of the CTS-V either.... too many choices.

Quotes source post: 5762168

Coilpacks aren't necessary at Inspection II. All Inspections (non-oil change services) require that a valve inspection be done to check all of the clearances and the ones adjusted as needed. The price is basically all labor. If you're looking at a 60K mile car that hasn't had inspection II you should assume you're going to need the valves adjusted. I just did my inspection II on mine at 45K miles and it needed different shims in at least 1/2 of the vlaves. Andy

My next sedan will be either a Panamera or an M3 Sedan.... all depends on price of the former and availability of the latter at the time that I need to buy.

Quotes source post: 5763208

My next sedan will probably be a Honda Accord Sedan.................. NOT!!!!!!!

Quotes source post: 5763682

Yeah, well you can have my Acura - a nice car, but no soul. I'll pass it onto my wifey, then trade her car for one of the ones that I mentioned.... get one that's 2 years old and it will make for a good deal.

I saw a CTS-V for 22K on ebay (04) found it : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2004-CADILLAC-CTS-V-CTS-V-LS6-6-SPD-ROOF-NAV-BOSE-XENON_W0QQitemZ200247967806QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZView Item?hash=item200247967806&_trkparms=72%3A727|39%3A1|65%3A12|240%3A1308& _trksid=p4506.c0.m245 I don't think you will lose THAT much money. I'd compare insurance premiums on all options before pulling the trigger

Quotes source post: 5762133

I have both cars right now. I am selling the M3. I already bought a 911 and i'm not looking for a trade. If you are looking for an m3 for sale which will only consider trades for a '99 911 with 100k miles, you aren't going to find anything worth buying IMO. So, many places you'd take the car to 'trade in' would give you about 8-10k less than NADA value on the car. I submit you can sell the car very easily pricing it 2-3k below NADA value. There is a service notice for coil pack failures in the M3, in which all 6 coil packs are to be replaced (with updated coil pack) if a coil pack fails, and is free if the car is under CPO still, otherwise not free. My car has already had the coilpacks replaced. Inspection 2 will run you about 1200-2000 bucks. Details found here... http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=672126 The sunroof adds 40lbs at the highest point of your car. Buying a car without a sunroof is ideal for many aspects of performance. I encourage you to test drive as many m3s as possible and see which feels the best to you.

Quotes source post: 5761710

ok, m3's suck

hi dallas its not that they suck, they are a good car, i had a cabrio with smg2 blah blah blah and truley fun, and well built, and as far as three series goes, this model is the one (cabrio or not) BUT... its not a great car. Porsche is a tool and feels presicion in your hands, and apart the fact that the porsche is more desirable you will realise in time that after owning both you should have stuck with the 996. I know how you feel i also go through Porsche Boredom Syndrome and look to make suicidal decisions to sell it and get some thing 'better' The fact is there isnt anything better (in its class/range).... and no matter whats comes to challenge it be it BMW or even AUDI r8 etc etc they are not in the same class..... Stick with the 996 truley a great one .... !!

I did it, don't do it. The m3 is great. You will miss the growl of the Porsche. I did, I'm back. Never again, baby

Quotes source post: 5761710

Because the M3 is hugely overweight, understeers like a pig at the limit, emits anemic engine sounds (compaired to the 996) and is generally much less entertaining to drive than a 996. Then again, it does have much larger back seats and trunk. What is important to you?

Quotes source post: 5765753

Except that the only two people in this thread (Andy and myself) who currently own both a 911 and an M3 concur that the m3 is a better all around car, and if forced to have only ONE car, would chose the M3. Both of us track both the cars moderately to heavily. The m3 is much 'easier' to drive because it is such a balanced car and there are many ways to be fast in an m3. The m3 is faster in a straight line; it has substantially more power under the curve than the 911, and despite much better aero on the 911, you will see higher straightaway speeds. It is heavier (my m3 listed above weighed in at 3230lbs w/ 1/4 gas and no backseats) The m3 is not nearly as neutral as the 911, but if driven properly (trail breaking, smoother turn-in) this can be dealt with. All M3s come with electronic/variable Limited slip differential from the factory. I hate having an open diff on my 911. This helps a lot putting power down out of slow corners and skid-pad maneuvers. There are much more/cheaper options out there for suspension and other performance parts. UTILITY !!!! Backseats, useable trunk, cup holders, much better interior. The 911 looks better, has much better brake, steering, and shifting feel. I went to the 911 because i wanted to experience a porsche 911 rear engine dynamics and have a more performance based platform/chassis. Buying the 911 has shown me what a great job BMW had done with the M3. I love both cars and in the end went with the 911 because I have a daily driver and wanted a more challenging/rewarding driving experience. I just hate people saying the m3 sucks because it is such a great car, and if these (most) people ran into an equally set-up M3 with equally experience driver, the m3 would pass them on track... In the end just drive both and see which suits your wants/needs the best. :edit: I should say I am making this comparison based on the MK1 996 C2 only. I have never driven a MK2 Carrera

Quotes source post: 5765967

Nicely done, the velvet hammer. I've always loved the sound of BMW straight 6, had one in Germany. 6 > 8, less is more.

Quotes source post: 5765967

Having recently owed an 05 M3 from new, I can attest to the fact that the car was an accident waiting to happen (worst understeer I've ever witnessed in a 'sports-car'). I lost the rear end in very easy maneuvers and was VERY unhappy with the stock suspension. The brakes were no better than my son's 330ci either. I was never so happy to rid myself of such an overweight car. And another thing, as you said, the exhaust tone was horrible. In standard form, it sounded like a Honda Civic w/ a large tail pipe. In aftermarket form, it sounded like a Honda Civic without cats and no muffler. Ever hear fellow M3 enthusiats' complain of the horrible 'RASp' from the exhaust? Those straight sixes sound so cheap! Almost as cheap as the Viper's do. Porsche commands respect, end of story. M3 people are always ready to step up to the P-car, but in my experience, p-car owners' don't seem to follow their thoughts............. Trust me when I say, I'll never look back! The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but we all know the real truth!

Quotes source post: 5766920

Thanks again for the informative input. Still undecided. I'm listing the Porsche anyway and see if I can sell outright first. I drove a CTS-V today and although I'd never take that car to the track it was very impressive. Luxury and power were abundant, not so sure about the handling though as it did feel heavy. The M3 I was looking at just sold so my quest continues. If I came across a nice 6spd 996 I might stay with the p-car as I love the handling, but I'm not overly fond of the tiptronic. Thanks again to everyone for the input so far.

Quotes source post: 5766920

BS ON THIS ONE, I'VE NEVER BEEN PASSED ON HWY AND THEY FALL WAY BEHIND AFTER 100....... M'S ARE GREAT FOR WHAT THEY ARE BUT FACE IT, THE 3 IS CHEAP NO MATTER HOW MANY CHERRIES YOU PUT ON TOP OF IT..... hehe.

Well, I own two 911's and two M3's. Both are great cars and I love em both. But when push comes to shove, the 996 (in my opinion) is the better car...for me. I've tracked the M3 and it is hard to get it to turn. Feels heavy - but on the street, you might never know. The suspension is very tight - almost harsh, jarring. It is fast but I'd have a very hard time believing it is faster than a late model 911. A few more horses but has a couple of hundred pounds to pull. On the plus side for the M3 is that many don't know what it is. I get messed with much more in the 911's - more of a noticeable car. Good luck with what you decide. As I said, both are great cars!

Quotes source post: 5766920

So the 911 looks better--and brakes, steers, and shifts better (what's left?), but the M3 wins because it has cupholders? Drove an M3 once--felt like...a fancy 3-series, which is not to say a bad thing, but it's not to say like a Porsche, either.

The M3 sucks compared to the Porsche and you'd feel like a douchebag for switching. There. You're talked out of it.

If you REALLY REALLY REALLY need a bigger trunk & bigger back seats, & you'll die without those things, then I guess go for the M3. But as fas as performance, beauty, appeal, feel you get driving it, chick-magnet, & everything else you can think of, we all know the Porsche wins hands down. This is the same decision I was trying to make a couple months ago, & decided to sacrifice trunk space & rear seat space for ALL the pros of the P-car. There really is no comparison. Also, now that I look at it, I like the smaller seats, it makes for a great excuse to not allow fat chicks in my car... Plus, something that no one on here has mentioned yet but I notice everytime I pass an M3, is that honestly, have you seen the people that drive those cars? 99.99% of all M3 drivers are douche bags, enough said.

Quotes source post: 5767537

Sell the Porsche.

Ask this on bimmerforums, and you'll get almost exactly the opposite response as it's a subjective question. I happen to think that both cars are great. As a fan of the the M3, let me give you some of the other side of this coin. It has a superior engine which is more responsive, makes a lot more power and torque. The M3's steering is quite communicative, much better weighed than the 911. The M3 absolutely has several areas where it bests the 911. The M3 is a lot more practical, it's probably safer (side and side curtain bags), has better headlights, etc. If you found an M3 without some of the options like power seats and sunroof, the weight is not too far off the 911 either. All that +better AC/stereo, quieter on the highway, and so on.

People buy Porsches because since they were old enought to have a dream car, they dreamed of a Porsche. They might have also dreamed of really exotic cars but always knew they were out of reach. The Porsche is a mighty stretch but very much something that a working guy could get if he really wanted to and saved. In time the Porsche is his and the life long dream filled... Bimmers are cars, you buy one for the same reason you buy a Honda or a Subaru or a Ford. It fits the current desires, needs and wants for performance, utillity, size, price or what ever is floating your boat at that moment.... but I highly doubt anyone "dreams" of owning such a car for 20-30 years like some people (many people) do for a Porsche

Quotes source post: 5769107

Absolutely right. But he is asking the question on a 996 forum. The responses should be pretty predictable, which is why I gave a just a few words. I don't know why the OP asked this kind of question here. If he's serious about switching, he knows why that's the case and will do what works for him no matter what is said by any of us.

Quotes source post: 5769107

Actually...if you read alot of the threads on M3fourm you'll get basically the same responses you get here. Most of the M3 guys are in an M3 because they needed the additional utility the Porsche didn't provide, not because they felt it was a better all around car, just a better car for what they needed. ...oh, and my M3 pulls my 3.4L car at >100mph every single time. Done that run time and time again. 40-140mph pull the 996 will jump out a car initally and get passed right about the 100mph mark where the M3 pulls about 2 additional cars to 140. BUT I see 3-4mph more at at the end of the back straight at Mid Ohio in the 996 becasue it has higher exit speed form the keyhole and I can drive just a touch deeper into the next braking zone with the 996.

Quotes source post: 5769283

I'm more car loyal than brand loyal. I don't think I'll be getting a Stuttgart tattoo anytime soon. "Porsches" in general are extremely nice cars, no doubt about that. The 911's are some of the best handling cars I've ever owned/driven. However I'm comparing the options I have in regards to switching out my current car (1999 C2 with a tiptronic) for something else in a similar price range. (Porsche, BMW, Cadillac, Mercedes AMG E55, or something else) I dreamed of owning a Ferrari 308 for years, but after actually driving 1 I realized that I prefer reliability, practicality, power, handling, and build quality more than how cool I looked behind the wheel, which is why I bought the 996 over the Ferrari. I'm still considering sticking with a 996 but would definitely prefer a 6spd. Just seeing what's out there now, but a well cared for M3 is still near the top of my list for a replacement if I sold the 996. Thanks again for the responses, I had no idea this would be 3 pages and still growing...

I went directly from an E46 M3 to my '04 996, and cannot speak to the acceleration victor vs. a 300 HP Mark I 996...but my '04 car has more power (345 vs. 333) and more torque (274 vs. 262) than the M3, and weighs about 400 pounds less than my M3 did. It's considerably faster from 0-60, from a roll, on the highway, and in any other way you care to measure. I say this as someone with years of seat time in both cars. Add in Porsche's far more tactile/superior steering, much less body roll, far less intrusive traction control, and in general much more driver involvement...and I have never looked back. The M3 is a "sporty" car which was fun to own, while the 911 is the quintessential SPORTS car which is an utter blast to drive - there is a difference there, and to me it means everything. So, I think you should consider a third option - get a series II 996 with a stick! You will never regret that choice vs. an M3.

Quotes source post: 5770136

I think that's good advice! The Mk2 cars are ridiculously good priced these days. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...824654764.html

Ya know, sometimes it blow my mind how some people can be so concerned with the image between a porsche and a BMW. There are plenty of ******* in both cars. You need to drive both cars and decide for yourself because trying to get an unbiased answer on this site seems impossible ("well, its not a porsche" isn't an answer). The E46 M3 looks better than the MK1, and has a much nicer interior. Porsche should absolutely be ashamed of the 996 interior.

Quotes source post: 5769283

I sorta doubt that a lot of kids were dreaming about MK1 996s.

Quotes source post: 5771152

Someone recently asked me what I liked least abut my car. I said it's all the plastic **** on the inside. My Accord has a nicer interior. But that's not why I bought it. I bought it because it isn't an M3

Quotes source post: 5771152

Please show me the e46 that looks better than these MK 1's, because I have not yet seen it. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=Taco

Quotes source post: 5771167

They would if they existed when they were kids. I was dreaming of early-mid 70's 911's when I was a kid, but bought a mk1 996 when I finally was in a position to actually buy a 911.

Had a 330CiC, which isn't much like an M3 except for interior size, build quality, etc. Nice enough car - driven lots of e46 M3's too - nice enough straight six. I love the sound and feel of a V8 engine - always wanted one, so I bought a 2001 740i Sport, modded the hell out of it with Dinan products, suspension, engine, exhaust, higher ratio rear-end, etc. It was a great car (sub-6 second 0-60 times, electronics nirvana, comfort) but it was also 4,200 lbs. I loved the 740i when I was in Florida, where the roads are straight and you can cruise comfortably at 130mph+ - the 740 was special that way, made for it, and I'm very lucky I never got thrown in jail (topped out at 160mph once in the everglades). I knew I wanted something lighter after moving to the mountains, sold the Dinan 7 and started looking at pcars. Knew I wanted a 911, considered a Cayman, but I'll still take the 996 over a newer Cayman any day. Personal preference - and a 911 is one of those quintessential, iconic statements on 4 wheels. I love this car - not nearly as comfortable or stable as the 740 (or even my 330), but it's so much more fun than both combined. I think you'd find the same thing with the M3 - it's a bit more stable with a more even weight distribution, it has a bit more size, heft, power, practicality - but it's just not nearly as engaging as a pcar. So it really is just like some other comments previously posted - personal decision, only you can weigh what's important to you. As for me, I doubt I'll ever be without a pcar in the garage for the rest of my days. This past May, I drove a new V8 M3 on BMW's Greenville, SC test track and I gotta say, it's pretty impressive, that's the M3 to have, makes the e46 seem a bit anemic in my opinion. I really don't care for the styling, but that's a matter of taste - and I'd be very proud to be driving one regardless. Lastly - why don't you look at a 2001/03 M5? Not sure of the prices, but that's the real deal if you want performance with a roomy interior - it's an amazing engine. Probably not much more maintenance costs than a pcar either...

I used to own an 03 M3 6spd coupe (no sunroof) and currently have a 02 C4S and a new 08 M3 sedan. The E46 is a great car, 60k miles is nothing as long as it was maintained propertly. Make sure you get service records. It does have a good size trunk and back seat. I've fit two aldults back there (even 3 for short trips with no problems)

there is no question that if I was buying a used car today it would be 996TT prices are too good to be true, you won't regret it

Quotes source post: 5763208

wow, isn't the panamera closer (in size) to a 7 series bmw?

Quotes source post: 5772178

Funny you suggested that, I found an 01 M5 that I plan to test out this weekend. The V8 is what made me start looking at those. I want to compare the M5 to the M3 and see which I prefer.

Quotes source post: 5771767

if you ask me, the aero kit is gaudy. I'd take a competition package E46 M3 one any day.

Quotes source post: 5774243

If you're looking for a sporty car, the M5 just won't do. My family owned a 2000, and while it was quick, and a nice car, it was too heavy, understeered quite a bit, and just didn't have the sharper feel of the M3. A nice car, but compromised from the sporting perspective.

Quotes source post: 5774034

Hard to say until we actually see one up close. I'd say that it's probably closer to the 5-series. I'm in the market for a sedan in the next year or two and originally I had decided on it being a Panamera. I wanted something that's as fun to drive as my 996, but recognized that I needed a sedan for the family stuff. When the starting price was published as $50K-$100K I was okay with that. I'm now seeing starting prices of $127K and I'm not okay with that - not for the bottom of the range and a VW engine. If that's the case, then I'll end up with the M3 sedan.

My recent interest in a 996 is purely due to it's driving dynamics on track, even if it's ultimately slower than other cars in it's price range. The reliability, the easy nature of maintenance and the stealthier nature (though I have no need for the utility that comes with it) of the M3 is what had drawn me to them. The 911 is also better in many ways, but overall I certainly don't think it's in a different league.

Quotes source post: 5775417

I think you signed up at the wrong forum. The correct one is bimmerforums.com Have a nice day.

Quotes source post: 5775427

To say the M5 isn't "sporty" relates more to a track analogy, in my opinion. In everyday driving - outside of canyon-type roads - I think you'd find it plenty spirited. But granted, it's more of an engaging autobahn cruiser, and less a canyon-carver by sheer weight - but my point was also that it's a good alternative to an M3 if one's considering bimmers.

Quotes source post: 5775417

IF YOU ASK ME, YOU ARE A DOLT.

M3killa, where you at?

Quotes source post: 5777823

If your alter ego comes out we'll surely get WAY past 5 pages.

Quotes source post: 5766920

sorry I have to interject here..... I have a 99 c2 with ROW 030 suspension and race it all the time against my friends E46 ZCP M3.... at MOSPORT... a world class track.... he also has dinan mods on it... he has 360hp... on the the long strait away I pull him every time... even when I have a passenger... the pulling is evident in the top of 3rd gear and more so in 4th 5th and 6th.... he drove my car once and said it was a totally different animal... and then he went to say he's never tracking his M3 again. I've driven his M3 and it was a nice car... but you feel the heaviness and in terms of feel doesn't even come close to a porsche... feels like a modded 3 series... *a very capable modded 3 series* I might add... strait line the pcar edges it out and in terms of handling the ZCP package kicks butt... but so does the ROW 030 ... only thing is the M3 feels like a pig in the corners and destroys tires... and you need to put 19" tires on the M3 to take corners at track speeds or else its a no go... my 996 has 17" !!! braking on the M3 sucks as well... and so does the gearbox... not what I expected from an M car... at the end of the day the M3 is for those who only want to spend the $$ on one car that has some practicality built into it.... great car for what your getting but its no pcar that's for sure... the ZCP M3 has great seats compared to the stock garbage seats that come in a pcar... I currently have a GT3 seat driver's seat and its one of the best mods you can make if you wanna "feel" and push your car to the limit... the other thing I didn't like about the M3 is its raspy exhaust... sounded like its gonna break... but with an eisenmann exhaust you can really cure that problem... also... the rear subframe is welded to the trunk so over time in tracking it will break unless you get it re-enforced.... not like a porsche... also the 05-06 ZCP M3's have a really tough suspension that's great on the track but oh boy I would think twice before going on a road trip with that car... with the porsche...even with ROW 030... no problem... as stiff as you want it for a street car... you pick.

Quotes source post: 5775803

No, I didn't, but thanks for the suggestion. And you have a nice day as well.

Quotes source post: 5777821

wow, you must be fun at parties. Everybody who doesn't share your viewpoint is a "dolt", huh? The ego can't handle it when someone doesn't care for your precious winged up Porsche? relax guy. Im not going to take it away from you. You can drool over it all you want, but don't expect me to. Cheers!

Quotes source post: 5777080

Yes, it is a sporty car. But, considering that the OP was going back and forth between a 911 and an M3, I think the M5 would be a further step AWAY from the driving experience he is looking for because the M5 is a good bit cushier. I've driven the M5 about 20k miles and its a great car, but I just didn't have the LOVE for it, that I had for say, my 95 M3.

Quotes source post: 5778170

interesting post, but somewhat biased in my opinion. The M3 brakes suck? The M3 gearbox sucks? You need 19s to take fast turns? I think you are going a bit overboard here.

Quotes source post: 5778274

oh really? those are the words of the M3 owner after he drove my car and after numerous sessions on the track where VALID OPINIONS ARE FORMED. what's is arrogant about M3 owners is they always want to compare their lesser (cause it is a lesser car.. in many ways..... unless you have a wife who uses it for getting groceries... then the truck comes in handy) car to the well established 911... lets not forget the delta in price and the reason for this price difference... you sound like another insecure M3 owner who some how some way wants to justify his car is as good as a 911... it snot. .. go to the track and see for yourself.... ( and yah.. the BMW salesman lied to ya!!

I don't own an M3. Regardless of what YOU think is valid, there are many hundreds of people that think quite highly of the M3's brakes, handling, gearbox, and overall performance. It is clearly a sports coupe and not a sports car, but I wouldn't go around thinking a 99C2 is king of the world either.

Quotes source post: 5778473

hey.... for the $$$ if utility and practicality are a must for your purchase then its a great buy... where I step in is when I hear people saying the M3 is a better track car than a 996... or its faster than a 996.. they don't know what the f*** they are talking about.

Quotes source posts: 5778473, 5778989, 5765967

The gearbox on the M3 is my least favorite aspect of the car. The flywheel is really noisy, the drivetrain has a lot of lurch when you clutch in under engine braking, and the shifting is very clunky with long throws. Remember all m3s come with electronically variable LSD from the factory, not the case for the 996. The brakes WORK, and with the right pads they will stop the car on track without fading on anything short of R-comps. However, they are still floating caliper, single piston and not built as well as the brakes on the 996. Typically this causes uneven pad wear (floating caliper) and excessive pad/rotor wear due to insufficient cooling. I was only saying the M3 is easier to be fast in for the novice - intermediate, doesn't bite back as much, and is balanced. I believe the 996 is the better track car and ultimately, when driven properly, is faster. This is why I sold my modified M3 for a 996. To be honest, you pretty much hit it right on the head, the downsides of the m3 compared to the 996. I still think its a great car, and the 996 has some downsides when compared to the m3 as well. Just depends on what you want in a car.

Quotes source post: 5778170

what??? The car does not perform better with 19s. The 19's look nice and fill the wheel well but for tracking 18s win hands down. I had an 01 M3and just sold in June. I did most performance mods and the car rocked! I like my 996 C4 more but either way you go here its a winner. Really depends what you need in a car. In a race I thought it would be really close and in a straight line I had thougth the m3 would win but others who have raced side by side seem to think differently. Porsche would win easily in the twisties, especially if the nasty stock understeer hasnt been corrected.

Hmmm.... oversteer and mushy brakes. http://www.bmwe36blog.com/2008/03/09...nd-nissan-gtr/

I'd take a '02+ E46 OVER a '99-'01 911 Carrera. I think it's a slight step up...if the M3's got similar miles and in better condition. Both are great cars and on par with each other in most ways. OP, if you have $55k to $65k to spend DO NOT drive an E9x M3, unless you're willing to part with your money, cause you WILL!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRAOjA22WM

I like m3's... i like 911's more... did I talk you out of it?

Quotes source post: 5779685

Different strokes I guess. No way I'd take any e46 M3 over a 996, unless I really needed the space. Too many downsides for the M3 in that matchup IMHO.

Quotes source post: 5779958

LOL..... More proof that you need to look at more than peak HP when looking at the M3's. Both the e46 M3 and E92 M3 are heavy bastards.....

Quotes source post: 5780040

Yup, weight matters. No good having lots of HP if you have a big fat ***.

ya, the M3 VERT is WAY, WAY, WAY too heavy. I'd never buy one. If you're putting the Coupe up against a 911S, it's a different story. The Coupe with CF roof hits 60 in 4.1 to 4.5, has a slalom speed of 73 MPH and skidpad of .95 G's. Almost equal to a 997 GT3 .97G's http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125265 Carrera S numbers as tested by Edmunds are 70.5 on the slalom and .92G's on the skidpad. http://www.germancarzone.com/997/202...carrera-s.html

Quotes source post: 5779685

I did not even spend that for a nice TTCAB. Keep the Porsche or if you are tired of that one, sell it and get another model/year/color/etc.!

Quotes source post: 5780133

..and I sold my TT for the M. I would tell anyone who was looking for a 2001/2002 TT to check out the M, also. Both are GREAT cars and I'm glad I owned my TT but happy to be in the M.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBoU...2-e92-m3-vs-99 Oh ya. Forgot to post this video to follow up the piggy convertible M.

Sorry, but even the M3 coupe is no light weight.... http://www.autospies.com/news/Automo...-E92-M3-17663/ I've never seen a review with a E46 M3 tested under 3,600 pounds or an E92 M3 under 3,700 pounds (tested weights). Those are not exactly "sports car" weights. However as a sports sedan it compares well with other sports sedans like the Audi RS4 and the MB C63 AMG. No question the M3's are incredible sedans, but let's not confuse them with sports cars like the 911.

Quotes source post: 5780330

Sport car weights? That makes no sense. I guess the new 3900LB Nissan GT-R isn't a sports car. It's all relative to horsepower/weight ratio. Anyhow, the M3 "coupe" is every bit the "sports car" as a 997, as is the "sedan." I recommend you drive one....or ask ANYONE who owns both. ...and I myself have owned a C4S and a TT before buying my M3.

Quotes source post: 5780387

no its not... I test drove a V8 M3 and loved it... but its no 997 in terms of handling... not even close... a 996 with sport suspension handles better than the new V8 M3... !!

Quotes source post: 5778989

I never claimed it was a better track car. I don't know, I haven't tracked either. I would still take the M3 over the 996 because of the far nicer interior and better exterior (at least over the MK1).

Look boys, there needs to be a recognition that this is a comparison of apples and oranges. Both taste good, but are different beasts. The 911 is a sports car. The M3 is a sports touring sedan. The 911 is small, light and nimble. The M3 is larger, less nimble and heavier. There is no real comparison. It really is that simple, they're similar, but different beasts.

Quotes source post: 5780752

Right!

Quotes source post: 5779958

Once again, Cabrio Porsche drivers carrying the brand name in times of need.

Quotes source post: 5780752

How come M3's are in the same class as Porsches in the GT class at LeMans?

Quotes source post: 5780477

Hate to break it to ya...the M3 out-handles a 997S in all measured numbers. When I test drove them back to back when deciding which I was gonna buy, I couldn't believe it. Maybe you need to get one on some serious twisties or check one out on a track. I'm really looking forward to seeing an M3 go up against a 997S head to head on a track. Furthermore, you REALLY need to push it incredibly hard (track speeds) to unleash it. If you DON'T push it, it will softer than a 911.

Quotes source post: 5780895

Ahem! Refer to the video I posted above with the M3 vs the C2S.

Quotes source post: 5780895

hmmm.... the m3 weighs much more than a 997s... I too enjoyed driving the new M3 V8 but I didn't come to the conclusion you came to... the V8 felt great... tons of power and torque - a sensational engine.. but the car felt heavy in the corners... but still handled extremely well with the stock michelin PS2 tires... we'll see next season at Mosport if any M3's show up... cause I really like the new M3 over the older E46 M3... huge improvement in my opinion... has any magazine done a track test with lap times using M3 V8 and 997 S?

Quotes source posts: 5780926, 5780752

Ahem! The video you showed was the Vert with a STEEL roof. That thing is a HUGE PIG and I'd NEVER buy one. It's like over 1000 LB's more than the C2S. Notice the VIDEO I posted of the M3 Coupe WALKING the C2S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBoU...2-e92-m3-vs-99 Also, Motortrend just did it's best handling car. Here's the results. 1. Audi R8 2. Nissan GT-R 3. BMW M3 4. Mazda RX-8 5. Porsche 911 TT 6. Mitsubishi Evo X 7. Dodge Viper ACR 8. Mini Cooper S 9. Chevy Cobalt SS 10. Shelby Mustang GT500KR http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...ion/index.html Also, I have NO idea how you call a Sports Coupe a touring sedan. That makes ZERO sense. The M5 is a touring sedan. The M6 is a touring coupe. The M3 is a full on sports car. Especially when you're talking the Coupe with CF roof. My car however is the sedan with moonroof and FULLY loaded with every option available. Even auto window shades. This makes my car an extra 150 lbs over a stripped coupe. Im glad to have all the option/moonroof etc... but I think if I had to do it over, I'd strip it down to save weight. Where a stripped coupe is doing 0-60 in 4.3 and the quarter in 12.4 or so, Im probably hitting 60 in 4.7 and quarter in closer to 12.8 to 13.0 OH well, live and learn.

Im shocked at the level of emotion sneaking into these posts. The E46 M3 is an amazing car. Amazing. The 996 is also. They are different. Different does not = "better." If you want the "ultimate" in sports car feel, light weight and communicative controls (all of which seem to be the 996 arguments), you might as well ditch both cars and go spend $5K on an old Miata.

Quotes source post: 5781274

yup - some just don't get it. This is a pointless argument.

Awe. Not arguing. I'd take any 2002+ 996 over any 2001+ E46 M3 given similar miles/condition. The new M3, well that's a whole different beast. Having owned several Porches and now an brand new M, I am thoroughly convinced that for about $25k less, you get all the performance/sports car feel of a 997 plus SO much more. This seems to be the general concensus from owners of both or those that have moved from 997 to new M3. Road tests and reviews and numbers also support this. ONE thing you give up from M3 to 997 is steering feel. That's one thing I like better about the Porsche. However it's acquired, cause once you get used to the feel of the M3's steering and REALLY push the car, it's just as good. Also, 150 in the M feels MORE stable than 150mph in my TT. 150 in my tt was jittery and scary, whereas the same speed was planted and stuck to the road. Amazing ****ing car!!! I recommend EVERY person who has $60k to spend on a sports car to give it a REALLY hard test drive, then go test a 997S.

Quotes source posts: 5781343, 5781343, 5781343, 5781343

mmm... no you don't... the 997s feels way better to drive than an M3 V8... the new M3 is a great car but feels sedated by comparison.... ... steering feel isn't as good... its the first thing you notice about the new M3... poorly designed.. the E46 steering feel is much better... but having driven the M3 V8.. I can say that there is a lot of other qualities that make up for that shortcoming... ... sounds like your TT needs a street alignment... when you do a track alignment you sacrificice a bit of strait line stability for cornering and transitioning ability which is what you need on the track... the M3 feels more stable because it is very quiet and uses soft dampers (vs the porsche's PASM firm mode)... which I kind of liked for long distance touring and cruising the city... (even on bad roads... where you really feel it in the pcar...) agreed... but on the track you will not be happy with the new M3 V8... there was a video on you tube that I will post that highlighted the shortcomings of the M3 V8 on the track...(stay tuned for that one - I'll look for it and post it...) even in M mode there seems to be some portliness on the new M3... although M mode is what you want on the track cause it transforms the car I'll say this much ... the E46 ZCP M3 was a much more capable track car than the new M3... (given shorter tracks with more corners and less straightaways ) but I still like the new M3 for what it is... if you want to track first and have a daily secon...stay with 997 S... the M3 is and will always be reserved for people wanting a back seat and a usable trunk. Lots of others who have pcars also have a daily driver for practicality cause the pcars aren't always that practical for ride comfort and cargo capacity \ also... the motortrend article should have used the 997S instead of the turbo because it is well known that the 997S handles better than the turbo due to less weight and RWD handling (the R8 is the exception here with its AWD system and they did a great job with it case closed...)

To each his own. I recommend people drive both and decide. To me the M feels more stable and planted than the 997. Again, M has better numbers on both Cornering and slalom than the 997S. I can't wait to see these two cars go head to head with professional drivers on a closed track.

this is the video I was talking about.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yjynxaLDJ0 fast forward to about 2:30 and see what the race car driver's comments are..... I hope they make a firmer suspension or a CSL version of that M3... with about 400 lbs less weight and maybe they can configure it with electronic dampers for a race mode and street mode... that would be the perfect car... the only problem with electronic dampers is you can't change the spring rates so the electronic dampers still have to work within the narrow range of the fixed spring rates... if suspension engineers can somehow figure out how to change spring rates then you've solved all your problems for comfort and track handling... the new M3 is a great car... and if you had to have one car... that would be it cause I couldn't believe how comfy it is and it comes with good seats that will be usable at the track... but for that ultimate handling and lapping days at DE events... based on the research I've done and my personal hour long test drive with the new M3.. IMHO... I still don't buy its better than the current 997S...

Quotes source post: 5781416

You might as well give up, some people have to rationalize their purchase and "their's" is the best, no matter what...

Hey. If after extensively driving the 997S and M3 back to back I had thought the 997S was the better performing car,l I would have bought it. We can sit here and compare reviews all day long. I have plenty that pick the M3 over the 997S, C63 AMG and even a few that pick the M over the 911TT and GT-R. Don't forget, I sold my Turbo to buy the M. The M gave me everything the Turbo did plus more, minus the speed/boost. I think for $25 to $30k less, the M3 is a far BETTER car than the 997S. Some may drive both and like the 997S more, for me it was an easy decision. To each their own. Both are great cars obviously, but for me the a brand new M was an easy choice over a 2005 Carrera S for about the same price. I can't wait to see the 997 and M3 go at it head to head on the track. We'll just have to stay tuned and see.

But I DO find it hillarious that people who have never even DRIVEN the new M3 weigh in with a strong opinion. I don't even think a test drive on city or highway roads should count. Untill you've REALLY driven both HARD I don't see how you can weight in, that is if we're comparing them for track worthiness/handling at the limit.

Quotes source post: 5781467

yup... I think your right...

Quotes source post: 5781467

yup. 'nuff said.

Quotes source post: 5781509

one last kick at the can here... we did extensively drive the M3... myself a pcar driver and my friend an E46 ZCP owner and circuit race car driver... we both came to the same conclusions... I don't care what biased magazines have to say who advertise products for companies they are reviewing your turbo didn't impress me either... but after watching that video of a PROFESSIONAL Le mans race car driver commenting on all the things the M3 DOESN'T do at the track that the 997s DOES DO... if you still wanna believe your car is better then so be it... I do a lot of tracking many things in that video hit home... looks to me like the M3 is lacking in the track department.... is it WAY better... no... its $25 k less you get $25 K less car... its a linear comparison in my mind where performance is concerned... don't even get me started about what the new 997S will do to an M3... of course when BMW engineers work out the bugs in their DCT transmission we may have another reason to compare and the results will be the same... sounds to me like you prefer the trunk space, back seat , cushy ride and utility... which are the top reasons why people buy an M3 over 911 and lets not start talking bout other cars here... the debate was 997 S vs E92 M3.

Yup. I agree with you guys. No way we'll change each others minds. However, for those of you who have NOT driven the NEW M3, I recommend checking it out. That means YOU Oreganet, old friend!! Good luck to the OP on his decision. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong. If I were you, I would look at some nice 2002-2003 Carrera's, too. Hell, i'd look at '05 Boxster S's too. If they're in your ballpark.

Quotes source post: 5781597

I agree to disagree. I love Porsches AND Bimmers. THIS time around the Bimmer grabbed my soul the way 3 separate 997 S's could/did not. I was just as surprised and couldn't believe it. Hang over at M3Post and see how many 997/S'rs are moving to the M. It's uncanny.

Quotes source post: 5781601

Gant, you just are not listening. In fact if you were paying attention to other threads you would see that the M3 sedan is on my short list of sedans to buy in the next couple of years (a Panamera is the other choice). We're not saying that the M3 is not a great car, it is, but it is not a 911 and is nowhere close in handling or responsiveness. Just listen to how many reviewers (in the videos posted) have commented on the poor steering characteristics and fading brakes. Honestly, they are the last things you want in a sports car and certainly are not present in the 911. Wake up and get a grip on reality - much as you like to think that all of your car purchases are perfection, the reality doesn't match the consensus of professional reviewers when it comes to this comparison. These two cars ARE different and people buy them for different reasons.

Quotes source post: 5781621

Well, I can only tell you from my experiences and many of the reviews say otherwise. I think we're simply going to have to wait until we see these 2 cars go head to head with pro's. I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong. I haven't drivn my car on the track. Maybe if I were to get them both on the track back to back I'd change my mind. All I CAN say is that my car gives me EVERYTHING my C4S did and does it so much more...handling, cornering, cruising is all very similar. Very civilized yet RAW and mean when I get in it. Turbo only had boost and speed over my M, otherwise, when I hit a corner hard in my car, I get all the feedback and plantedness I got in my other 2 911's, yet WAY more forgiving when cruising. That is why I bought it. I think you'll love it, Wellardmac. I do plan on getting back in a Porsche. Maybe a Cayman....we'll see.

Quotes source post: 5781640

I'm sure I would love it. I need to replace one of my sedans in the next couple of years and I want a sedan version of my 911 in terms of being fun to drive on the road. The Panamera is my first choice, but if the price is unreasonable, then I'll make the M3 my second choice.

Quotes source post: 5781652

Right on, man. I very much look forward to hearing your thoughts after a drive.

Quotes source post: 5781656

I expect to enjoy it, but I'm not expecting it to be like my 911 for the simple reasons of it being a bigger, heavier, and higher center of gravity. The laws of physics usually win.

My car CONTINUES to defy laws of physics, I'm tellin' ya! ...or maybe I'm just justifying my purchase!!

I'm not ruling out a 2003 M3 I've come across. Are there any major problems that can happen? Like a motor failure in a Porsche?

I've got a aging 328i that I consider eplacing every now and then. The new sedans are too much for me with the 996, so would love to have an older couple.

Quotes source post: 5781847

Just buy CPO, no matter what you do, buy CPO.

Quotes source post: 5781832

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif

Gant, You crack me up. Now the M3 is a sports car?!?! Come on..... I think you really need to look up the definitions of a "Sports Car", "Sports Sedan" and "GT". Here's a first hint for you, it is not determined by how quickly a car can circle a race track. I'm quite sure that a M5 can get around just about any track quicker than my Boxster, but I'm also sure that doesn't make it a sports car. If a new M3 does hustle around a track quicker than a 997S it may have just a little to do with that small matter of a ton of extra hp. (in fact if you look at ring times, the cars are 1 sec apart.......not too shabby for a 59 hp deficit) I thought the Motor Trend handling article was interesting for what it was lacking.....sports cars. It had plenty of GT's and Sports sedans but few real sports cars. Why no MX-5, Cayman, 997S or GT3, Elise, Boxster, F430, Z06 or ZR1, and no Lambo? I'll repeat what has been already said, the M3 is one heck of a sports sedan. The ones I have driven certainly had good power and felt very refined. However, they were all also much less involving (although more comfortable) than my 986 or 996. That doesn't make them bad, however it does make 'em different. I think most in this thread are just trying to point out those obvious differences between an e46 M3 and a 996. I personally think they are far more different than a cursory look at their similar acceleration times might indicate. Those differences (that are glaringly obvious during a drive, especially on a track) are not so obvious if you just view 0-60 times that look somewhat close. Just my opinion....

Quotes source post: 5780704

and tell me, which one do you own. Oh yea, neither........ get a checkbook then an opinion.....

Let's also qualify that the new incarnation of the M3 is a FAR cry better than let's say a 2003. 2 totally different beasts. That being said...I'm still waiting for the Panamera! ps. BMW is just a German Buick...Ha!

Quotes source post: 5781513

I dunno - this thread is getting a bit argumentative. I've driven the new M3 on a track and I loved it. But... it's heavy, and even per my earlier posts, heavy is heavy... weight is a physical measurement that can't be confused, or corrected (much) in a street car. Between cars, the new V8 M3 DROVE me to buy my "new" '02 996 C2.... okay, pun definitely intended. Love both, but wanted one - one that met MY needs. I could be VERY happy, proud, and smiley driving the new M3. But my 996 makes me smile in so many more ways. It's brilliant - for my needs. In the end, really just choice, choice is good. Don't lose sight of that.

Quotes source post: 5786536

+1... amen.

I had a 1990 964 that I traded for a 2002 M3. I traded back to the Porsche and now have a 964 race car and a 1999 996. The 996 experience is different than the M3. As a friend said, the M3 is like driving a Caddy compared to the 996. It's just a different experience. Softer would be my term. The M3 is straight line fast! The brakes don't compare to the 996 at the track, but not terribly noticable on the street. I too would take a 6 speed over an automatic, but that's me. Orrin. Ownership of the M3 is about the same price wise as the 996. The 2002 E46 engine did have issues, but BMW stood behind it with a 100k transferrable warranty. Thankfully, I didn't have to test that warranty. To see what kind of issues BMW E46's have had, get on www.roadfly.com and do some research. I'm out of touch with these cars now.

Quotes source post: 5781274

Brilliantly spoken Just buy what you like, none of us are going to have the pleasure or paying for nor driving whichever vehicle it is that you choose.

NOPE, M3 OWNERS SUCK AND SO DO THEIR CARSSSSS....... They are slower in every aspect and this horse will never stop being kicked.

Quotes source post: 5789578

Well... at least when the BMW horse stops kicking, the dealership puts a new engine in free of charge. I kid, I kid. All things being equal, I do think that the 996 is the "better" car, personally (this coming from an owner of two E46 M's). To me, "better" is the driving experience and, lets be honest, Porsche has that lead over most other manufacturers by leaps and bounds. That said, the M3, for what it is, a 3-series after a few years in the gym, is just plain awesome in its own right. The engine is simply superb. The car is amazingly neutral and the built in understeer is easily dialed out. Also, dont forget that the the M3 is the most successful (race wins) production-based saloon car in history. At the end of the day, the owners of both cars are in the same camp. They all want German 'motorcars.' Some need back seats and some dont. Some prefer the feel of stability in the M3 and some prefer the more raw feel of the 996 (the pre-964 guys are now cringing). Each to his own. Direct your anger at the Honda Civic EX with the fart cannon and the 747 wing revving his 1.6L's of fury at the stop light... not your cousin from Munich.

Quotes source post: 5792008

M3 is MORE than a supped up 3 series. M3's are built from the ground up using almost 100% different bits than the 3. The 2 door M3 is not a Saloon (sedan) and is NOT considered a 2 door sedan. 97% of ALL M3's produced over the life of M3 have been the 2 door coupe. After driving 3 different Carrera S's back to back with my M3, I found the M3 to handle just as well and offer a lot more than the Carrera S. This is way different from the E46's that i've experienced, especially when compared to the 996. 996 and 997's ARE superior in almost every way to the E46 M3.

Quotes source post: 5792095

Im using "saloon" as a word to describe a typical F/R layout car - a 996 wouldnt qualify - not the strict "sedan" translation. That said, Im well aware of how M3's are built and, although not yet having driven an E92 M3, Im sure its also a hell of a car. I have driven a 997S, however, and if the E92 M3 is better than that... 'wow' is all I have to say. As far as ownership is concerned, the only 911 Ive ever owned was an 88 and its hardly comparable to any of the other cars listed here. What it did have more of than any M3, 996 or 997 was 'soul.' Unfortunately, since thats an intangible asset, you really cant tie any tangible value to it.

Quotes source post: 5793324

Right on. WHEN you drive the new M, get it on some good twisties and rip the hell out of it!!

There are a few comparisons going on between the new M3 and the Mercedes C63... something to consider as well. Here is one here in the GT3 section... enjoy: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/450210-ok-the-official-gt3-replacement-pic-thread-the-amg.html

Quotes source post: 5792095

That's just not true. While it is certainly true that the M3 has a different engine, transmission, differential, and suspension it actually shares approximately 20% of parts with the E92 coupe. It utilizes the same basic unibody, suspension hardpoints, and much more and is built at BMW's Regenesburg plant along side the regular 1 and 3 series models. The V8 engine is assembled at BMW's Munich engine plant, alongside the M5/M6 V10, the V8 diesel, and V8 and V12 petrol engines for the 5 and 7 Series and its crankcase and carbon fiber roof is produced at BMW's light-alloy foundry at Landshut. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xbeBQVNQYs It actually differes from the regular 3 series in much the same way that a Mitsubishi EVO differs from a Lancer, a RS4 from an A4, or a Subaru Impezza from an STI. Why is it that RS4 and C63 AMG owners seem to understand that they drive sport sedans, but M3 drivers think their coupes and sedans are sports cars?

Quotes source post: 5793715

exactly... the subframe of the E46 is welded to the trunk just like the regular 3 series.... = breakage at the track.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=458d5d96147b9 Sorry, couldn't resist.

Quotes source post: 5794616

lol... NEITHER COULD I ... http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=458be6dc37c65 http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=4849744cdd4d5 the 1 2 punch... your OUT!

Repeat after me: it has nothing to do with speed. It has nothing to do with speed. My Miata is often more satisfying than my 996.

Quotes source posts: 5794616, 5794724

This really kind of illustrates my point. The "Sportscar" (that's the Cayman in case you were confused) has a whopping 119 less hp yet is is almost able to match the e92 M3 on several of these tracks. How is that possible??? Could it be that the M3 weighs a whopping 500-600 lbs more and does not handle as well?? Do you still think it's (the M3) a Sports car?? Exactly and they did it with less hp. Could it be that weight and handling came into play here too??

Quotes source post: 5794890

I could believe that. My Boxster is sometimes more fun than my 996, but it's certainly not faster.

Wins two, ties one and comes within hundreds of a second on another two!! Holds it's own on the track with the 997S. THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! I can NOT wait to see these two go HEADS-UP with pro drivers!!! Cayman got destroyed by the M on the track. It's horsepower to weight ratio. 700 LBS more and 119 HP or whatever. GT-R is 480BHP and 3900LBS.

Quotes source post: 5794890

I bought my M for one MAIN reason. How it felt on the road. How it handled. You throw in everything else it offers and with the exception of the gas mileage, it may just be the perfect car. I don't wanna come off as a troll, and I think after owning 4 Porsches, I hope you guys don't take it that way. The M is simply the GREATEST feeling car I have ever driven!!

You are no troll and I'm only pushing buttons playfully........ There is no substitute....

Quotes source post: 5795082

I'm relatively new here - but it sounds like you're just trying to justify your decision to switch to BMW to a bunch of porschephiles. My question is why? This certainly isn't about "the numbers" nor is it a competition - you'll certainly get more support over at bimmerboard, bimmerforums, or roadfly than you might on Rennlist. I too think the e92 M3 is great, and I'm glad you love it. Why am I reading this thread? It's intoxicatingly stupid, really - but I keep coming back for more... It's like mescal or magic mushrooms, I think I'm starting to hallucinate...

Quotes source post: 5795782

1st off, I'm a Porsche-file, too. I've owned 4 and been through a lot with them. 2ndly, I have a lot of friends on this board and a good history here. So, I'm here to share my love for Porsche's ALONG with other cars, such as the one I bought (and LOVE). I'm also here to learn, educate, encourage, discourage and hang with people. If I happen to come off as trying to "justify" my purchase with exitement and comparo's, I'm not sure I necessarily see anything wrong with that. Some people can handle it, maybe some can't. However, there are PLENTY of people over at M3forum and M3post that own or just love Porsches and talk about how great they are, along with comparing them with other cars. So...if a lively debate comes on where I compare my car to Porsches and where it shines and where it doesn't, that's what it's all about!!

Quotes source post: 5795829

Touche... it's an open board and a great community here - and I shouldn't be discouraging spirited debate, nor minimizing your history and connections to many of the members here. With that, I look forward to engaging in other topics on the board with you and the other members in the future.

Quotes source post: 5795901

Right on!! Oh and btw, Porsches SUCK!!!

Since this thread refuses to die I figured I'd post the car I decided to buy so as to provide opportunity for more criticism So far I'm happy with the choice I made. This car is a BEAST! A little more practical than the Porsche and ALOT more power. Handling is better than expected but of course not quite as nimble as the 996. Not mine, but similar:

That is a monster of a car. Congrats. Its very nice looking..

Quotes source post: 5885452

That's a great car, congratulations! Although the horse was already beaten to within an inch of its life, it all depends on your needs. If you're driving more on straight roads, I can't think of a car that would be any more fun than an E55. And I'm sure it's more comfortable for one, or even 4 passengers! Drive it in good health...

Nice ride. Post up some pics when you get them.

Quotes source post: 5885452

Probably needs about $10 grand more to even think about being "nimble". However, I'd probably take it over a dime-a-dozen BMW anyday.

how much

Quotes source post: 5889534

How much... fun? Alot How much... did I pay?.... The same or less than some M3's I was looking at. I got a great deal on it. Nobody wants a 500hp Supercharged V8 in an economy like this.