SS Brake Lines for track use?

So I just got back from a great weekend at CMP in my C4S. That is Carolinas Motorsport Park for those outside the region. The track is hard on brakes and I thought I was prepared as I installed Hawk Ceramic pads and ATE HI- temp (200) fluid. After about 3/4 into the sessions my brakes started to get soft. I immediately came in and once cooled down, had them bled. Same thing happened again so I went the rest of the weekend using my brakes a bit gentler, (braked longer with less pressure) and all was fine. Here is my question: do you recommend SS Lines and if so will that cure my issue? To be honest I imagined my brakes would be amazing as they are turbo brakes. I realize the lines are inexpensive all things considered and I probably should have had them installed as I am sure my lines are stock(2003). Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Mark

SS brake lines will help. Part of your problem may also be due to the pads. Hawk Ceramic are not really track pads. SS lines and different pads will help. I had exactly the same issue with my 996. I was running Hawk Ceramics, installed SS lines and it helped a little. The real solution was changing pads. Just be careful - pads that work well on the track are not ideal for the street. Cheers.

If you decide to go with braided lines, I highly recommend Goodridge's phantom lines. You'll get very strong, swaged fitting ends which are worth more to me than a nominal increase in pedal feeling.

i think getting the heat out /off the rotors is key......cooling ducts/are the rotors correct/better fluid and pad material /iirc some change the master to a gt ? i would think ss lines would do little for fluid boil

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Good call on the pads: I went with them as a street/track pad but I may be better off changing out my pads for track days as I go roughly 4 weekends a year but still expect performance when I go.

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Thanks, I will look into them.

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I thought about cooling ducts - what type are people using? My rears we're getting a workout as they were smoking? / steaming? after I came in. It seems you are also recommending a different fluid?

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Are you running with PSM? If so, that can really wear your rear brakes quickly if you are pushing it. My favorite is Ferrodo for a combination street and track pad.

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Yes, I was running with PSM. It hadn't occurred to me but that makes sense. I was pushing it but the car was incredibly stable.

I don't think lines will significantly help a heat problem. The main thing people claim is that stainless lines will result in a firmer pedal since they will not expand as much under braking pressure. I have had them on 2 different Audis and I'd be lying if I said I could honestly tell a difference. Keep in mind that the "stainless steel" part of the line is just the braid on the outside that protects the plastic pipe inside that actually contains the fluid, which is more or less the same as your stock lines. So it is not magically better; they mostly look cool. If your lines are in bad shape it wouldn't hurt to replace them with SS, but if your lines are fine I'd leave them alone. The ways to fix a heat problem are: 1) switch to pads that can handle the heat 2) add cooling 3) brake less The only way lines might help is that if the pedal IS firmer, AND you're thus able to be more precise with the brakes, perhaps you can get comfortable using them less, which will help them stay cooler.

I have a set of brand new Hawk DTC-70 front pads for the C4S. They are one of my favorite pads but unfortunately a RL'er misadvertised that they would fit and I can't use them. And yes, pads will make ALL the difference. DTC-70, PFC-08, and Pagid yellow, orange or black are all good track pads. Next I would go with a higher quality brake fluid. Motul 600 will be an improvement over what you have but Castrol SRF is the way to go if you plan on tracking much. It lasts longer than motul and you don't have to bleed it near as often as Motul. You can't mix it though so you will need make sure you get the system completely empty of the old. 2 liters is enough to do it with. SS brakelines are more about pedal feel than temp. Them along with upgrading to the 997 GT3 master cylinder make a pretty nice combo but neither are a necessity.

GT3 ducts are a low dollar easy install upgrade

The problem is they route a lot of air to where your rotors would be if you had GT3 (350mm Front) rotors.

the SS lines use a teflon tubing. it doesnt expand like rubber hose. This makes effectively more pressure to the caliper. The SS is just for protection. I did notice better feel and braking when I put them on. I would do it again . goodridge is about as good as any, look on ebay

Has anybody actually cut apart an OE line to see the construction? There is a thread on here with some posts suggesting there is the same teflon pipe, and even a stainless steel layer under the rubber. IF that is the case, OE would be better than aftermarket stainless, since it has all the same functional parts, plus a protective rubber layer to prevent grit from chafing the steel braid. I have not cut one apart so I have no idea. Anybody have actual facts? A real benefit, or just a perceived benefit due to Light Wallet Syndrome? https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ake-lines.html

Back in the day before ABS came out, the brake lines were dealing in brake line press. up to 1600 psi and a great upgrade then was SS lines, today we have ABS system's that go beyond 2500 psi. you can bet you are going to have the best available brake lines for that car, like said most don't notice the difference when changing to SS lines. Big problem in the Harley and Indian world on ABS bike, most all change handle bars to ape's or mini ape's and then use the pre ABS lines on the old bike cause they are cheaper, when they burst that line thank god they still have a rear brake.

Motul 600 and Pagid or PFC pads ought to be your solution...more so than lines for certain -

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That does seem like sound advice. I appreciate the input and even that I should brake less! My next event isn't for a couple of months so I will evaluate my options. My challenge is my C4S is my daily so I am trying to balance the track/street equation.

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You can street any fluid. Just swap pads for the track.

+996. If you take the dampeners off and tie the wear detectors back with a small zip tie it becomes a very quick process to change out the pads. Add to eventually a set of track wheels/tires and you'll be able to swap the full setup in under 45minutes.

I have been told that the Porsche factory brake lines are the same as SS lines internally, just have a rubber outer covering and they use them on the Cup cars

On goodridge lines the fittings are SS as well as the lines , a nice improvement itself . The goodridge lines I installed have a black covering over the lines so look stock.

SS brake lines won't do **** for you.

If you live somewhere with salt on the roads , the stainless fittings are nice . One common fault in a 996 or 997 is the steel brake pipes that run over the engine rust out . And to change them you have to drop the motor and tranny . Since any hydraulic hose shop can make up flexible stainless steel lines in any length with any fittings you want and there is no fluid expansion in the line like in a conventional line , you can route these lines and avoid the cost of a motor drop . I haven't done it on my car but it's a fairly common hack , without any loss of performance . You can undo it and install new pipes at the next clutch or aos job. Or keep them forever If you ride classic 70's -2000 motor bikes with disk brakes , stainless lines make a huge difference in braking performance , I used to do that and add ferodo he pads to all my customers bikes. But high performance cars these days have good lines .