HELP!! I broke the header bolts off in the head!!

HELP I didn't use the liquid wrench and the header bolts broke!!! 6 broke on he head luckily just snapping the head of the bolt off adn leaving ample thread, but the collector ones did the same and appear pressed in???? What would be the best way to remove the threaded remains of the bolts in the head? I have smacked them lightly with a hammer per the instructions of liquid wrench after soaking them. Should I use a pair of vice grips and try to remove them that way or what? Are the studs pressed in on the cats? will a simple press be ok????

Wow..... bad deal man. I dont really have too much experiance with removing broken bolts but perhaps you could try grinding a slot in the remains of the bolt so it looks like a flat head screw then trying that. That is after you soak the living crap out of everything with the liquid wrench. I've heard PB blaster works well too.

that sucks!

There is a tool for removing broken bolts, toolsource.com i think . Soak it in LW then try vise grips if you can grab it, but you may end up drilling it out. How did you break six, I would have bailed after one.

Bring it to a shop which know their stuff. You broke off 6, that should tell you to take a break. Good luck.

If you cannot take it to someone, try an easyout. Good luck. -Darren

go buy an extracter--all you do is frill a small hole in broken stud and extracter will get a grip on it--be careful with hammer--don't want to crack anything

OMG that sucks! i didn't even have to use liquid wrench to get any of the bolts off. i did snap one of the bolts off the cat, i over stressed and over tightened. seems to be fine with 2 bolts holding on. i fabricated a bracket that i hope will hold the sheared bolt on. i think the cat bolt is pressed on. it doesn't have any "keying" feature on either end of the bolt that would show any evidence of screwing it into the cat flange. if you find a suitable press let me know. first soak w/ liquid wrench or PB blaster and let sit. tap the exposed bolts lightly with a hammer to help the LW/PB to work its way in and to loosen any corrosion. try wrenching it out vise grips. it may help to dremel flats onto the bolt to help the vise grips. try bolt out/easy out something like that. if that doesn't work you can try to drill out the bolt but thats the final resort. you will probably have to re-tap the holes after fishing out the metal bits left behind. of you have completely destroyed the thread then you will have to use use threaded inserts or Heli-coils. lastly when you do finally get things back together, use anti-seize! GOOD LUCK!

Sean, Sorry to hear about your trouble...but six! Like C4s Surgeon, I would have called it a day after one. I think at this point you ought to call a flat bed and have it taken to a competent shop. That should be a couple hundred well-spent. Geert

heheh thanks for all the interesting help! j/k thanks I will have my dad fetch a set of the ez out after trying the vice grip approach and have been soaking and tapping with liquid wrench and this stuff the P car tech recommended. As of right now at least I have the stoptechs done gt3 ducts done hubs done rear brakes done and am waiting for a 10mm flare wrench to put on the rear stainless lines then I will fill with srf bleed all around and then start tackling those header bolts!

SPR - sounds like quite a weekend project. Wish you the best & hope it gets better from here!

Everything is now done other than the header problem. I am going to pick up a reverse easy out tomorrow or maybe tonight from sears I didn't even get to my gf's jeep. I am putting on pads, changing the fluid and header

OOOHH. post pics of the stoptechs. did you do front and rear? my car is going in on monday for the fronts.

I only did the front as there is not much benefit from the rear given the demands of the braking system etc. I am going to take the car down to the dealer first thing tomorrow morning.

Well I am trying to get an appointment at a dealer locally here. I called autogallery- nothing till wednesday. I have put calls into rusnak and bh porsche and am awaiting calls back. Anyone have any further suggestions for getting it in asap? Thanks

Out of curiousity, was the engine completely cold when you tried to remove the bolts?

Yes. In retrospect it would have been better if it was hot. I reinstalled the headers and was going to run it to temp and then try removing the bolts, but I am so burnt out on trying anything and frustrated that I don't want to damage anything irreperably.

No. You were correct to have the engine cold when trying to remove them. The difference in expansion of the different metals (bolts and heads) risk stripping threads when the metals are hot. Your problem really sucks. Hope the dealer can get them out without too much trouble. Good luck.

Depends on whether there is any amount of bolt to grab onto as to how to proceed. If there is bolt to work with get a dremel or small die grinder to make a portion to grab hold of with. Usually not the case though and drilling and EZ out is the only alternative. Make sure you drill large enough - also look into a really good tool shop and find a "left hand" drill bit. These are drill bits designed to run counter clockwise. Often during the drilling process the bolt will back out using the LH drill bit. Guys --- toss the Liquid Wrench and save it for all of the hacks going to Kragens to work on their cars. Use AeroKroil as a penetrating liquid - it's FAR superior to Liquid Wrench in freeing frozen bolts. http://www.kanolabs.com/ The best way to use AeroKroil is to spray and tap the bolt/nut lightly for a couple of minutes (yes minutes) then spray again then tap again then spray again. I have seen bolts begin to move just while tapping them. This stuff works! I encounter many of the same problems working on light aircraft that we see here on P cars. Cramped quarters, impossible areas to reach, lots of threaded aluminum, heat stressed parts, etc. Many of the same materials used for working on aircraft will work beautifully on P cars (after all, Porsche did make an engine for the Mooney). One of the things we always do is when working with bolts in aluminum we always use 1/4" drive sockets. If you can't get up to a 13mm headed bolt out with that then take another approach (not a bigger wrench). Re-installing should always be with an adequate amount of anti-sieze. While we're at it, never reuse bolts anywhere around exhaust components - ALWAYS use new bolts/nuts. Just my opinion.

any chance arling can take care of you today?

Every mechanic gets into a similiar situation from time to time. It's time to pick an approach and maybe get a few new tools. Some good ideas have been given. Aerokroil is very good. Dremel tool with slots can work too, if the stud/bolt is relatively loose. Left hand drills are great. Easy outs or screw extractors are easy to break so use the largest one you can fit. Once you snap one off they are nearly impossible to drill out as they are hardened steel. I have special carbide bits to drill these, but they are brittle and easy to break. The manifold bolts are M8 x 28mm, Replace them all new. For drilling a taphole use a 7mm or American size J drill. Where you have enough exposed stud, dual vise grips usually work. I like to use propane heat, and alternately spray the stud with refrigerent (in a can). Mostly this helps break loose the corrosion that is bonding the threads and allows the lubricant to reach deeper. Where you are broken off flush, your choice is: 1) Drill and use an easy-out. If the easy-out breaks off you might be able to get it out with heat/cold and tweezers. I have broken many and always managed to get them out. 2) Drill to save the threads. I like this method. Even slightly damaging the threads usually allows reusing the hole after cleaning it with a tap (8mm x 1.25) 3) drill to an oversize. Either retap to 9mm, or drill to the size to allow insersting a Helicoil thread repair kit. A few drilling tips: If possible grind the end of the stud flush to make starting the drill easier. Use a centering punch to make a center mark. They make special starter bits that are only small nipples, but most likely you can use a very small bit in a dremel tool with very little of the bit extending from the chuck to avoid wabbling and walking of the bit. Some dremel tools, drills, or routers have a nice guide to insure you stay perpendicular to the surface. Go very slow, use oil. Once you have a good start (it's critical to get a good start) you can finish a small pilot hole (say 1/16th inch) and then switch to progressively larger size bits. Left hand bits could help now. I would drill right though the length of the stud if possilbe and use Aerokroil again before attempting and easy-out. If you can drill a centered 7mm hole then you can simply use a tap to remove the left over threads and your done. I think if you used a 7mm drill most of the remaining threads would just fall off or unscrew out. If you vere off of a straight line you can be drilling into the aluminum case, so go slow and stop for inspections often. The hard part is to insure you are holding the drill perpendicular and concentric something a bridgeport or lathe does very well if the enginer were removed. You should be able to find local machine tools, but here are few useful links: http://www.toolsource.com/ost/default.asp http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/asp/home.asp My shpping list (excluding power tools) would include: Set of left hand drills including size J 3 very small pilot drills (about 1/16th inch) 8x1.25 tap 2 sets of easy-outs (highest quality) Refrigerent in a can Spray can AeroKroil (maybe a helicoil kit if required) Any machinist could fix this easily with the engine out. The good news is the broken bolts are accessible with a drill from below the engine (I think?). You will surely have to post how you solve this tough problem.

There is one more solution; spark erode the remains out. There will be sommeone with the equipment around, ask any tool & die or advanced machine shop.

Interesting. I actually did get the extractors/easy outs as well as the female counterparts. I did snap off an easy out in the bolt. I believe the only solution is to drill them out after trying each again with the vice grips, which don't do anything as the space is so tight you cannot get any leverage other than straight on i.e. parallel to the bolt. I used an automatic center punch and started the hole with titanium drill bits using the pentrating lube as a lubricant. This worked well and actually although tedious, I could simply drill out all the bolts and retap as I have all of the above from snap on. However as I got sick of dealing with the project, I flat bedded it over to BH Porsche this afternoon for them to start working on it in the morning. What a way to spend your spring break huh? My gf has been less than enthusiastic being by herself at the hotel while I am doing all this. As I arranged the trasport ealy this morning, I took her to magic mountain today and that seemed to salvage this extended stay somewhat. I just want to have this done and go back to San diego so I can relax and finish a supreme court brief I have due, just after the break is done!!! I am bummed as this time was supposed to be for either working on that brief or relaxing, and I haven't been able to do either save for today. Hopefully BH will come through and not at too much $$$ It's a joke because if the bolts didn't break I could have swapped the headers out in seriously 20 min if that with my dad's lift and full snap on air tools and torque wrench etc. What a pain. At least I got all of the other things done: front bearings stoptech upgrade with pagid orange and SRF, gt3 ducts, new rotors rear with pagid orange, tranny fluid change with OEM castrol from the dealer, and ehem, removal of the headers, as even thought they are reinstalled they're not done yet

I feel your pain, any of us with any real experience with porsches , hot rods or whatever have been there, part of the learning curve.

Yeah I have done my share of helicoiling when I was younger due to lifting weights but I just didn't foresee any problems of this nature. Thanks for the sympathy. I will let you guys know how it pans out and if I salvage my spring break!

How much of the bolt is visible? You can try putting two nuts on the bolt and tightening them against each other, then put an open ended wrench on the bottom nut and try and twist the bolt out. If there's 3/4" of bolt visible that should be enough. (All this after a liberal dousing of Aerokroil. That stuff is really great.)

That's funny you say that because my dad did some research and that is what vw recommends for the same situation. Well it is in the hands of the dealer now so I hope they have all of that knowledge and experience

Might want to apply some heat to the area with a torch to help removal.

The body shop doing my dad's turbo, Avio noted that the broken bolts occur frequently and that they heat and cool it with a torch and water and they come right out.

Tried to heat and no dice. We even welded nuts on the studs and they broke when torqued. The only solution is to drill them out and chase the threads with a tap

Oh, a follow up on the stoptechs, srf, and pagid oranges. With the braided lines I can stop the whole car with a toe and pushing on it feels kicking a wall!

ah the stopechs. was supposed to have them installed yesterday. the brakes were in, looked great and are massive. guess what, they're for a TT! oh well, gotta wait for at least a week while the adapters are at the anodizer and the calipers are still being made. i guess the make them to order. they look to be a high quality kit. the stainless lines are DOT approved. they have a clear rubber coating to prevent them from cutting up suspension parts. the rotors are absolutely massive and WIDE. the cooling vanes look like they are super efficient which is what these brakes are all about anyway. about the pagid orange, are you using them for the street? don't you have to warm them up before they become effective? what's srf?

srf is the castrol brake fluid. I am using the orange on the street and they work fine as of today. I actually know the cofounder of stoptech.