X51 engine

What is a X51 3.6 engine worth? Thank you for the help

Quotes source post: 18077202

In what shape? Are you buying, selling or rebuilding?

Selling it, the engine has around 60,000 miles on it no leaks, the build date on it is 2005 so it must have been replaced by Porsche I'm guessing. Thanks again for the help

Pretty sure MB Motoring shows they have one online.

Is it MB Motorsports? Thanks

Quotes source post: 18077334

Yes and I'm not going to provide the link because I don't think they're well liked here, it's just for you to get an idea.

New engine is $7900. That�s not including accessories.

Any idea what that includes? New short block alone, or long block? Remanufactured or actually new or rebuilt?

Whatever the dealer includes. If you Google the part number you�ll find them. Considering not many cars came with the x51 they prob have a surplus. I doubt they�re rebuilt coming from the factory.

Anybody know the part number for the complete x51 long block?

Sounds like a short block then.

Quotes source post: 18077918

100%. No chance it's a long block for $7900.

where do you see one for 7,900.00. That can't be right

A complete 3.6 engine from Porsche is 30,000 or more

I'm thinking 7900.00 is for the X51 upgrade kit not the engine, the kit comes with cams, cylinder heads, headers, intake and different oil pan and a few other things

Well, this forum priced out a short block m96 which we know is approx 8k give or take. Question is what a short block x51 goes for and a long block x51. Just need a part number which I couldn't find by googling, nor could I find it on fcp or sunset. Correction: Should read..."what an X51 package goes for and a long block x51"

Quotes source post: 18078097

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a X51 short block the same as any other M96 short block? I don't believe the X51 package touches the bottom end. I believe it is the following improvements: Improved Intake Runners/Plenuem Improved Cams Ported/Improved Heads w/ Large Valves Larger Baffled Oil Sump Pan Headers DME Tune Third Radiator

Quotes source post: 18078106

Type65, no correction needed. I believe you are right. My fingers were typing faster than my brain last night after dinner with friends. We do know that we can still buy a M96 short block from a dealer. In fact I just confirmed it thru my dealer last week out of curiosity as I was ordering a Rear Main Seal. But have no idea if you can still buy an x51 package, the individual components or even a X51 long block from Porsche. I'll ask when I pick up the RMS next week.

Anyone happen to know what the PN is for the X51 Power kit? Asking for a friend.

Quotes source post: 18078352

X2

Quotes source posts: 18078352, 18078652

It won't do you any good, they are NLA, and the kit was like $25K when it was available back then...lol

Quotes source post: 18078747

Holy cow... that's amazing and crazy at the same time.

That's $1,000 for every hp. What a bargain.

Quotes source post: 18078747

$25k to convert or from factory? My car is an 03 X51 and build sheet shows the X51 package was a $14k option

Quotes source posts: 18078887, 18078934

Yea, it had a very hefty "Porsche Tax" on it, but at least the HP numbers weren't exaggerated..lol Yea, that's the "Dealer Installed Kit" price , the Factory Option was about $10k less ..

Quotes source post: 18078953

Ok, makes sense. Looks like the original owner of my car got a deal 😁

Quotes source post: 18078973

For Sure !!

I�ll add the PN when I get to my work computer.

I guess I really lucked out! Replaced the original engine in my car in 2011 because of bore scoring with a factory X51 long block. All in cost at my Porsche Centre was $15,000 CAD then, which was on par with what I was being quoted by indy shops to rebuild the original. Plus it came with a 2 year unlimited Km warranty. The parts dept had noticed that the price was the same for the X51 as the M96; a few months later, this was no longer the case but I had won that lottery already. Having had both versions in the same car, there is a marked difference between the two engines. The X51 is freer revving and just punches out the power better. Feels like more than 25hp.

I will be at the local porsche dealership in the western suburbs of Chicago on tues. If someone can find the long block part number, I will inquire as to the cost. I'll also ask if they still sell x51 packages as well get a cost. My guess is it's "out of control" expensive. But you still have to ask.

996 100 996 30 996 100 996 20 996 100 996 14 Those are the x51 specific engine replacement numbers. The different numbers are for years

Quotes source post: 18081171

Thanks man. I'll see what Napleton Porsche in Westmont IL says for availability and prices.

Quotes source post: 18081171

I entered all three part numbers at Delaware Porsche Parts and they all came back as 996 100 996 30 and DISCONTINUED PRODUCT

Bummer. I'll ask anyways. Anybody know if the Reman program is still operational? At one time it was rumored that you could send your m96 engine to porsche and exchange it for an x51 engine and pay the difference.

Quotes source post: 18081279

Last time I was there, they had a short block with inventory.

Quotes source post: 18081627

This is very interesting as someone has stated a while ago that there are no more M96 short blocks available anywhere and that they are grabbing up anything left from distributors overseas. Seemed a bit far fetched for me and turns out that's not the case. I can confirm that there is no such thing as a X51 short block. It's same as any 3.6 M96. One important thing to also keep in mind that you absolutely need the X51 specific ECU to make it all work as they have different maps compared to a standard M96. I'm sure you could do a custom tune to take advantage of the better flowing heads and exhaust but that's another thing to keep in mind. X51 package included a better flowing exhaust manifold.

I know you guys confirmed it online but I reached out to Suncoast directly and they said the same... NLA.

Quotes source posts: 18080673, 18080673

That's an awesome story. Lucked out Knowing porsche it probably is

Folks, I was at the dealership today picking up a few parts and a line formed that prevented us from tracking down X51 info. Funny how the dealership had no new cars for sale, a couple of used ones and a big line for parts. Never seen it before. I plan on calling them tomorrow to have them continue to look into anything X51 related. Be back shortly.

Quotes source post: 18085589

Yeah, it's weird times. I went to the Porsche dealer here in Spokane last month to get a new spoiler bellow, and I think they had a few Macans and Cayennes, but everything else was used and the majority of the used Porsches were sold. They did have a really nice white 991 GT3 for sale though. Definitely keep us updated if you find out anything new about the X51 offerings.

The shortage is everywhere maybe more Porsches burned and sank on the tanker then we will know

I�m pretty sure the x51 intake manifolds are now available. That�s for the 3.4 and 3.6.

Quotes source post: 18085874

It appears so. Part number 996-110-980-42. If anyone is going to order, don't forget you need two. Intake runners to the heads also have a unique X51 part number, 996-110-983-00. Probably need to port the heads to match. Wait, looks like the 3.6 X51 heads are available too. This gets expensive fast... https://www.gaudinporscheparts.com/o...k4MC00MA%3D%3D https://www.gaudinporscheparts.com/o...on-99611098300 https://www.gaudinporscheparts.com/o...ad-99610490500 https://www.gaudinporscheparts.com/o...ad-99610491000

That�s just one side of the upper. You�ll need 2 plus two lowers for a complete plenum.

So over $10k for heads before work to make them damn….

Quotes source post: 18085945

Wonder if ported heads and a appropriate cams would do the same for half the price?

Quotes source post: 18086010

Yes and no. X51 also has camshafts with greater valve stroke on inlet side and modified inlet/exhaust valve timing. Inlet valve springs are also adapted to increased valve stroke. As mentioned above, you'd also need the correct ECU map to help take advantage of all the hardware.

Quotes source post: 18086037

I get that but I find it hard to believe that no one has been able to achieve the extra HP stateside, I know the CSR has upgraded heads but can't find the specific HP/TQ Specs at the moment,

Quotes source post: 18086069

Oh I'm sure they have, it's just hard to source all that data with so many builders out there. Hoffman heads alone can offer up to 14% better air flow with their big valve option. Combine that with some more aggressive cams and appropriate tuning and I'm sure you can get X51 power or better. X51 was alsmo more than just power. The overall goal was to also increase dependability with the improved oiling, especially on bank 2. Obviously FSI does a lot of stuff with their heads and cams but I wouldn't hold your breath for any specifics there as its all proprietary. It seems like the options are to try source the complete X51 package yourself or work with an engine builder and talk through all the details and your goals. Anything else is just speculation and guessing game. Just too many variables.

IIRC, when I got my X51 upgraded car from the PO its was making 318 RWHP. It lasted 13k track miles, then the crank twisted in half.

Take a look at what FVD has done. They created their own version of the X51 for 9k. The reality is that everyone learned from what Porsche produced with the X51. Hoffman to FVD and everyone in between. The smart ones probably improved on it or found a way to do it for a cheaper price. Good discussion.

Quotes source post: 18086133

Was it completely stock besides being X51? That's like an 8ish% driveline loss as X51 motors were rated at 345hp at the crank. If everything else was stock that's an underquoted number, which wouldn't be a first for Porsche.

So what we need is a complete list of the x51 package parts and part numbers.

I don't have the part numbers but the complete package should include: - Air intake manifold with modified cross section - Adapted intake manifold pipes - Exhaust manifold with larger cross section and optimized flow characteristics - Cylinder heads with optimized inlet ports, camshafts with greater valve stroke on inlet side, modified inlet/exhaust valve timing and Inlet valve springs adapted to increased valve stroke - Modified bulkhead box in oil pan aka X51 metal baffle - Modified map for the DME control unit

Porsche PN 000 044 100 09. Kit consists of the following: 1 - 000 044 100 10 Piston Set 1 - 000 044 100 11 Gasket Set 1 - 996 104 982 01 Cylinder Head 1 - 996 104 983 01 Cylinder Head 1 - 996 110 980 00 Intake Manifold 1 - 996 110 983 00 Intake Manifold 1 - 996 105 991 00 Camshaft 1 - 996 105 992 00 Camshaft 1 - 996 105 996 00 Camshaft 1 - 996 105 997 00 Camshaft 1 - 996 106 037 51 Oil Cooler 1 - 996 107 988 00 Oil Pan 1 - 996 111 991 01 Exhaust Manifold 1 - 996 111 992 01 Exhaust Manifold 1 - 996 575 141 02 Duct 1 - 996 106 665 55 Hose 1 - 996 106 641 59 Hose 1 - 996 106 666 52 Hose 1 - 996 107 980 00 Oil Pump 24 - 996 105 994 00 Cam Follower 2 - 996 110 985 01 Elbow 1 - 996 107 984 02 Hose 1 - 996 573 980 00 Hose 2 - 996 107 221 51 O-Ring 1 - 996 104 995 00 Heat Shield 2 - 900 075 495 00 Bolt Kit 1 - 996 504 485 02 Bracket 1 - 996 504 487 02 Bracket 1- 996 505 553 05 01C Lower Valance

Quotes source post: 18086170

Here's what's unique in my copy of the PET (FYI text search mentions "IX51" 28 times): 996-110-980-42 - Intake Distributor - Qty 2 996-110-983-00 - Intake Connector - Qty 2 996-104-905-00 - Cylinder Head 1-3 996-104-906-00 - Cylinder Head 4-6 (M >> 683 00433) 996-104-910-00 - Cylinder Head 4-6 (M 683 00434 >> - big price difference between these bank 2 heads 996-105-035-40 - Intake Camshaft Cyl 1-3 996-105-036-40 - Intake Camshaft Cyl 4-6 And a few more part numbers from LNE's listing for the tandem scavenge pump (that is not listed in the PET): 996-107-980-01 Tandem Oil Scavenge Pump 996-107-984-02 Rigid Oil Line 900-378-219-09 Bolt for install The other references to IX51 in the PET are for various bolts and what not in the ignition system pages, but I can't see anything unique about those.

Quotes source post: 18086144

Say what now? Any more info on this?

Quotes source post: 18086413

Read Zbombs "Fabspeed Intake versus 3.8 airbox" thread. About 2/3 of the way I talk about it after my conversation with FVD. Sorry I can't figure out how to copy a link on my cell phone or I would attach it.

Quotes source post: 18086220

Here is "on sale" for 18K https://www.usporscheparts.com/oem-p...it-00004410009

Quotes source post: 18086170

good read http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=60293

A lot of money for 25 Hp and no durability improvements.

I am assuming that is just the part cost. Add in labor, you have a sub optimal build to an FSI build.

Quotes source post: 18086428

Found it. Interesting stuff

Let's say someone were to own one of these uber rare 996.1 "Carrera Cup" editions (C2 drivetrain in a C4 chassis, factory Aerokit, X51 package, M030 suspension, etc.) with relatively low mileage. What does everyone think market value would be? Is there even enough knowledge about these cars to create a premium? Any guesses how many were built? Edit: found some info online saying 55 units total for the 996.1 "Carrera Cup" edition.

Quotes source post: 18086790

cool

I've never even heard of that

Quotes source post: 18086790

I am having trouble understanding how a company builds a C2 and a �Carrera Cup� simultaneously. A camshaft is a camshaft. An intake is an intake. A head is a head. Why not just build the good one, the cost difference was essentially naught.

Quotes source post: 18086469

Agreed. Found my Targa on a used car lot in Tarpon Springs Fl. I noticed the aluminum intake, Headers, center radiator and S stamped on engine serial #. When I dropped the sump plate, X51 baffles are there. Found that thread and took a chance I may have found a unique 996. No records from dealer. Carfax showed engine out at Brumos Porsche in 2004. I tracked down the salesman from Brumos who�s card was in owners manual on Facebook. He works at Porsche experience in Atlanta. He remembered the car and (for what�s it�s worth�) verified the original owner wanted to create a Gt Touring Targa. Also PSE was added along with Aerokit. It definitely sounds and feels different above 5500 rpm, in a good way. I �think� I have the Power kit. I�m sure an FSI engine is more durable. But I�m happy with what I have, and I got that going for me 😎

Love it especially as a targa good catch regardless

Quotes source post: 18087518

An easy "tell" to visually see if it's an X51 is to look at the intake manifolds. On the M96 engine, they are black plastic. On the X51, they are aluminum.

Quotes source post: 18087426

Porsche was under contract at the time to supply and run Carrera Cup cars for the F1 opening races. Rumor has it that if the Megzer equipped GT3 was not ready in time...or didn't meet the regulations...Porsche developed a tweaked M96.01 engine package as a "just in case" back-up plan. We all know the GT3 landed successfully on the track, so Porsche took the tweaked M96.01, added an "S", and branded it the X51 option package. The 55 "Carrera Cup" cars with the full GT bodywork (Aerokit) are a unique package. They are basically a GT3 "lite" with the X51, stiffer chassis, M030 suspension, etc. They did not have a roll cage installed, but they did have GT3 wheels as standard. The X51 incorporates increased/improved oil lubrication & water cooling designs, so by all accounts this engine does seem to have been developed with racing in mind. Who knows what the original intent of the 55 Carrera Cup cars was (possibly a celebrity race series?), but somewhere along the way Porsche changed course and they were sold off to the ROW market in 1999.

Quotes source post: 18087518

That's a beauty you have right there! Targa's aren't that numerous, and as optioned....pretty unique & special.

Quotes source post: 18088184

Thank you very much for the added detail to the history of X51. I guess I need to edit my question: I don't understand why, once Porsche had identified the M96 weak points and made efforts to address them, they didn't just start building them all that way. A cam is a cam, a head is a head. Essentially zero cost to Porsche.

Quotes source post: 18089114

Profits. If you invent a better widget and sell it for the same price as the lesser widget, you're giving away profits.

Quotes source post: 18089122

Bingo!!! Also, the X51 in 996.1 guise never met the stringent US emissions at the time, but the original M96 design did...so no sense messing with your largest consumer market!

Quotes source post: 18089114

The forthcoming 996 Turbo and it’s engine requirements must have entered the equation at some point ... The Mezger development provided the basis for a bullet-proof roadgoing Turbo engine AND racecar engine, and they knew the aircooled bottom end was pretty much bullet proof even at high horsepower numbers.

Quotes source post: 18086247

So what is the actual difference between these heads? I know the 00434 is roughly twice the price, but don't know anything more than that

Quotes source post: 19445017

The more expensive one/later one has two of the holes in the head for the scavenge pump drilled offset so it can't be installed wrong, and uses the "997" scavenge pump with slotted holes that can be used on earlier 996's Picture of the scavenge pump that fits on ALL the m96/7 engines.. So basically you are paying $3k for two holes to be drilled and threaded "offset" ,....supply and demand??

You can get most of the X51 parts, but you cannot get the AC compressor suction pipe (996.573.980.00) which is different. The standard AC compressor suction pipe will not clear the X51 intake (ask me how I know) so you have to modify the pipe or not use the AC. Mark

Quotes source post: 19445047

so can you confirm that�s the only real difference between the two head PNs? 906 vs 910. I because I�m in need of one due to an internal crack. I have a company looking for a 910 in Europe somewhere as we have none in the US that we can find. its been a long journey to find one and if we could be looking for two parts numbers vs just one that may improve the odds. I�m dying to get the most famous 40th anniversary edition, 1374, back in the road. thanks a lot.

Quotes source post: 19445548

Have you tried to contact HOFFMAN AUTOMOTIVE MACHINE, INC . Maybe no need for a new head.? Len Hoffman is THE 996 head expert and fixes most cracked heads perfectly. pt3 has been driving one for decades now iirr. For maybe < half the money a new head would cost. jmo

Quotes source post: 19445548

Yes I can confirm that the only difference is the 910 can only use the updated 997 scavenge pump whereas the 906 can use the 996 or 997 scavenge pump although either pump can be installed wrong on the 906 head due to the symetrical bolt holes...MUST pay attention to the orientation.. Also if you have to source a used x51 head make sure to get the matching cover and cam caps....they are machine and number matched as a set.. LIke Allcool said Len Hoffman can successfully repair most head cracks on M96 engines... There is one crack that is deep in the SAI ports that cannot be successfully repaired . Have you confirmed the exact location of the crack?

Quotes source post: 19445755

I don�t have the exact location of the crack but it�s a deeper exhaust port crack. Coolant is weeping through it. I spoke with Jake Raby a bit about it. I was thinking about reaching out to Hoffman as well. It�s worth a shot. Also, what is the outcome of installing the scavenge pump incorrectly? What issues will is cause? thanks for the tip about the cam cap and cover. i would like to utilize the current head as the engine has 500k miles on it and I�d be worried that a newer �tighter� head could cause issues.

Quotes source post: 19445875

If an oil scavenge pump is not oriented correctly , it will not return oil to the sump ( Integrated Dry Sump) ...This will lower the oil level in the Sump while running to a dangerous level and also will overfill the head with oil that is more likely be sucked up by the AOS System..

Quotes source post: 19445875

You have a 40AE with 500k on it?

Quotes source post: 19445917

this is good info. Thanks a lot.

Quotes source post: 19445945

Yes, it�s my late father�s car. You can view some of his milestones on the 40th AE thread here. Unfortunately he passed just before hitting 500k. I was looking into a small coolant leak this spring when the crack was identified. I have sold one of my 996s and my early aero 996 is about to be up for sale as well. I plan to drive the 40th as long as possible and as much as possible see how far the original engine can really go without a rebuild.