engine trouble is unavoidable

My whole life i've wanted a 911. Now, at the age of 36 i'm ready to go shopping! I am planning on spending around $50,000 and hope to get a fun car with great reliability. I have spent a ton of time online, searching for information about problem areas, reliability and pricing. Here's the problem: It seems to me that all 993s need engine rebuilds due to poor quality valve guards, and all 996s need engine replacements due to headgasket problems!!!! Before I go out and buy a Lotus Elise or BMW M3, I would like the opinion of people who actually own 993s and 996s, is it true?

You're really confused. 996's have RMS issues, not head gasket. The extent of which is unknown and HIGHLY debatable. Don't get me started on the problems with Lotus's, M3's and every other high performance car. Maybe you should get a Lexus?

Life is a crapshoot. Buy the car you want. If you want a high performing machine, expect it to have more issues than a Camry. Buy a used 996 from a dealer with the warranty if you are worried and go have fun! The earth could be hit by a meteor the size of Nebraska next week anyway.

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On the other hand, I am getting ready to turn 50. I owned a 911 when I was 18 and loved it but couldn't afford the insurance and it wasn't too suitable for going hang gliding. I swore I'd buy another some day because there was no other car like it - the driving experience, the car, what it means to know you own one, heck the entire experience (but mostly the driving experience). So I just went out and bought a 996 last month (finally again) and as soon as I got out for a really good drive I wondered -- why did I wait so long? Life is too short. In the month I've owned it I've put $1200 into it (but I got it cheap). I don't really care - I got a smile on my face every time I drive it. I agree with the previous post - you want in the middle performance, an insulated driving experience and stead-fast reliability ----- buy a Lexus. You want on-the-edge driving, performance, feel and "holy crap, look at that beautiful machine in my garage" excitement --- buy the 996. Life is too short ------ check that -- Life is too LONG to drive bad cars.

C'mon....Legendary Lotus quality? How can you beat that? And the M3 - if you're talking about the E46 (2002-present) M3, make sure it has the recall performed that lowers the rev limit due to the grenading engine problems that they were never able to solve. At LEAST, research the issues on the 993 and 996. Blanket statements like this: can't get you taken seriously here. They are blatantly false.

BMW=Break My Window

Not sure how you came up wtih a Elise, M3 and 993 or 996.... 3 totally different cars Lotus, never had an Elise, had an Esprit, fun car, spent $45k on motor and trans mods alone though M3 - nat a bad choice, but no 911 911 - best choice - live the dream

If yo were forced to compare a BMW to a 911, I'd suggest you look at the M5, not the M3!!! I've had 'em all, and I'm thrilled to now own a 996!!!

Carnut, I think I could understand if your alternative were a new Corvette or 350Z- both new and on warranty. Every expensive car is expensive to maintain. I can't take my BMW to the dealer without a $1000 bill. Porsches are expensive, but obviously, despite some gripes, we all think they are worth it. The new ZO6 is putting pressure on Porsche to enhance value. That's relevant to new car purchase decisions and used car prices. To me the question is used 996 with some concerns about upkeep expense vs new C6 corvette with cheaper materials but cost-free driving for several years. AS

My friend just traded in his M3 for a 996 and hasn't looked back. The M3 is more practical and a litle faster in a straight line. But for him, the 996 is more fun to drive.

If you're considering an Elise you should check out the Elise Talk board, especially this post: Best Elise surprises and unexpected frustrations

An elise is a completely different car to both the M3 and the 911 a friend of mine has had one for years and I got out after 30 minute ride as a passenger never wanting to get back in the car again its a go cart on wheels its levels of amenities and comfort make the early boxsters seem like a luxury GT great for the track - **** for everything else. In my mind, its not even a 2md car, its a 3rd car there is nothing available to touch the 911 as an overall package (maybe the astom martin AMV8 if it is a 2 + 2 when it comes out) if you've wanted a 911 your whole life and can finally get one then getting anythiong else will result in envy and misery evey time you see one fly by

Having an Elise, it's more like a fifth car. That's not a knock, just the facts. It's primarily useful when you are alone, have open roads to drive on, have nothing to transport, can park it yourself, and won't get into hevy truck traffic. So car number 1 is your Porsche, 2 is your sedan so you can take people out to dinner, 3 is your SUV, 4 is the race car you tow with the SUV, and 5 is the Elise. Sometimes the Elise is #4. AS

I just brought in my 2004 RX-330... the center console has a compartment that no longer opened so we had it replaced. Go to pick up the car and there are parts sitting on the passenger seat, they couldn't figure out how to get them back so we had to take another loaner and come back tomorrow... idiots. Wait a minute what was this thread about again? Oh yeah, carnut stop hanging around with bobporsche.

993s do have valve issues, mine never did (98 C2s). 996s have rear main seal ("RMS") and trans issues. I've had 2 996s (00 Cab and 02 Cab), have not had any RMS problems. Both of my cars required new transmissions, the 00 Cab at 15K miles (5th gear synco), the 02 Cab at 4K miles (poping out of 2nd). I would not own a 996 without a warranty. Good luck. Roy

Wait a minuite, my parents have a Lexus rx-330--nice car--good quality--of course my parents combined age is 145---Doh!!!

CARNUT, when NOT if you buy the Porsche, make sure you get the Warranty and NOT from HERITAGE. (They're Horrible!) I can say this, I grew up around p-cars, and as soon as I could afford one, BAM I bought one, Then another, and so on, like many of us. It's a lifestyle, not a car. When you OWN a p-car, everything changes! Enjoy Life, Drive Fast When nobody's looking and Laugh Out Loud as You're Hauling A$$ in your 996!!! My $.02

Roy: I agree. I have a 993 that's out of warranty but based on what I've read on this Board, I believe it would be risky owning a 996 that's out of warranty. Also, I've owned two 993s and have had no problems other than normal maintenance.

i promised not to say anything again in posts like these....

Sorry guys, I hope I didn't offend anyone! None of you have replied to my message complaining about engine problems, so I can only assume that the problems are few and far in between. Since I posted the message i've been out in a 996, and what a car! I loved it. You're right, even if it did brake down, it's worth it. The next one for me to look at is the 993, and I will buy one of the two. Thanks for removing my concerns, I guess the tone in your replies shows how much you love your Porsches. The 911 is the ultimate sportscar for me, and I'll definately buy one!

Looks like this question excited a bit more debate over on 993 https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/190332-engine-trouble-is-unavoidable.html

Just get the 996, 993's look/are dated, sorry guys jmo. An Elise is a waste of time and will be in everbodies way at the track. I've got 28k on my car, no issues at all, clearly the best, most reliable car I've ever owned. I have no problem keeping it out of warranty and I would gladly buy it again.

You must have not been on track with a well driven Elise . I have owned an Elise Sport 190 and an Exige. Both are faster than any NA 911 except the GT3. As an example, a stock Turbo, with a professional driver, runs a 1.39 at Road Atlanta. I ran 1.42 in my car, a good 5 secs per lap faster than any 996... Most of my buddies run a few seconds (1-3) short of GT3 times in the NE as well. Well driven, they are very fast. That being said, I would never drive one as a daily car... Roy

The M3 is a great car for the $$- had a SMG for a little over a year but got tired of it and wanted a real manual again. It needed a recall for oil pump and rod bearings but OW was trouble-free. Sold it for the GT3- nothing like a Porsche, had at least one since 1971 and counting... the Elise would be a great toy, a new 914 but less practical, but I'm out of room

C4S surgeon- I will rise to the bait. My Elise is my 3rd Lotus (Europa-gone,Current- 73Super7-vintage racer, Elise 190R) It is far from "in anybody's way" at the track. On stock tires it turns 1:38's at Gingerman, on the higher performance Yoko's (not as good as the stock new rubber) it was driven to 134.5 by a Bondurant instructor at the same track(I get to 136, and my son to 135, tho the tires are now worn and heavily heat-cycled). I'm hard-preseed to equal the 134 in my ttX50. At a local race, my son, in his first race, was competitive with a field of fully-prepared, sticky-tired) and well-driven early series 911s. At a recent Ferrari event, only a 333SP could outrun it (obviously that driver was uncomfortable with his car). Even the race-tired 360's could not, and a 575 Maranello wasn't even close. (again, don't know the driver or his skill/comfort level) The Elise needs to be experienced to be believed. Chris Cook (who is Tony Stewart's road race instructor) said it was the best handling street car he had ever driven. Elise steering and responsiveness set a high-water mark for street cars (partially because of it's feather weight) and is a geat car for making everybody a better driver. It will follow the signals you give it, and gives excellent feedback- actually easire on the stock rubber which breaks away far more predictably-tho at lower limits). It's easily driven distances of 25-50 miles on public roads, just a compromise since it has little storage, so it's hard to go to the supermarket, and the top makes it hard to close when you leave it in a parking lot. ( I have a quick-off racing steering wheel which I also have to take with me-since I don't want it to be somebody's souvineer, but that's not a problem on the current model. It's a great car, especially for learning racing techniques. It will tuck its tail and slide if you lift throttle, revert to understeer when you give it gas, it will respond to steering inputs immediately to correct, and is EASY to Heel-toe (or rev match or whatever term you use). So, take it back, please. It is sometimes easy to misread a car's capabilities because the driver is unfamiliar with the track, is unskilled, or is experiencing some difficulty, difficult to perceive from out of the car. My singular such moment was being passed by a Spitfire at Road Atlanta- except I was in a fully competitive Can-Am car. Must have made his day, but it was my first lap at that very tricky and very blind course, and I was experiencing clutch-slip. Still, I can't imagine what that guy thought. AS

If you decide to get a 996, get a 2002 or newer. More is better! I just bought a 2002, 9450 miles...this is my 4th Porsche. It is the best one I've owned so far. "Porsche," there is no substitute.

I like my 996 better. I drive it a LOT more because it has a usable trunk, better soundproofing, wider cockpit, and is much easier to get in and out of. My 1999 model has 41,000 miles on it and the survey taken on this chat room revealed that most Rear Main Seal leaks had surfaced in cars by the time they had 35,000 miles on them. RMS occurred in later model years, not just the 1999 to 2000 models. My 993 was sexier because of the air cooled whine but it was not as much fun beyond an hour in the cockpit. It is real tough to find a GOOD 993 because of the age of the cars. Most have at least minor problems such as oil leakage, etc. You'll find a cherry 996 much easier. I looked at 25 cars until I found one in excellent condition. Join your local PCA and you will find the local mechanic to service your Porsche for 70% of the dealer cost.

I have to agree with most what lexpilot is saying. Age is quite important in respect to condition of a car. I just bought my 996 with only 20,000 miles and it is in prestine condition. When I compare how much I had to pay for my 964 with 89,000 miles, I still can't believe it. A 97 993 with 20,000 miles will set you back more than a late 99 996 (mine is 7/99).

[QUOTE=turbo951fan] I just bought my 996 with only 20,000 miles and it is in prestine condition. [QUOTE] May I ask what you paid for your 99 Cab? And how long ago did you buy? I paid $47k in May of last year for a CPO 99 Cab w/25k mi, and am curious about how much my car has depreciated in the year I've owned it.