Fabspeed whole kit and caboodle

I have bone stock low miles 2004 c4s. Runs great, and I�m about to do something either awesome or stupid. But wanted to share my experience start to finish. im going to have the performance package( headers, sport cats, xpipe, mufflers, intake, tune) plus the IPD plenum with the larger throttle body. lots of umm, opinions out there regarding this stuff, but I am a car nut and I am crazy as we all are and can�t just drive it without farting around with it. Anywho. When you order from the factory it takes about 5 weeks for them to make the system. I live close enough to the factory that I am going to have them install as well. This could either be a good thing or a dumb thing. But hey. Life is an adventure. Some thoughts leading up to this. Bore scoring. I by all indirect signs have a healthy engine. Haven�t done a bore scope. does the hive think this may exacerbate the potential issue? Should I install the low temp thermostat? It�s a summer, good weather kind of driver only. Try to avoid too many local quick stop and go trips if u can. couple of weeks til the build is complete and I can have it installed. Thought some conversation on here leading up to it would build suspense or talk me out of it altogether. If I take the plunge then I can also provide some real world impressions from the perspective of a car dude who is not a mechanic/engineer/know it all.

Hey man, good luck with it. Fabspeed offered before and after dynos. Please take them up on it and let us know your improvement. You only live once, might as well do it with a complete exhaust package including software and intake improvements.

Subscribed! Really interested in your results!

This is an incredible opportunity for fabspeed selling all of us the package by showing the before and after dyno! Joe Fab should take advantage of this soft pitch.

Do it do it do it

That is steep. Id pass and put the 8k after tax towards a rebuild with bigger bore.

Cool project. Agreed with others, if documented well, this could help solidify arguments before & after. Please get the bores scoped before any work. You should have this as a starting point. I don't think anything you are going to do would make scoring any more likely, but it might change your decision on when to add all the goodies. My current belief is that the best performance after changing how the engine breathes is the tune. You won't realize optimal performance unless the computer understands the change in air flow and can use it. We talk about the computer adapting to our driving or the current engine conditions, but I don't know how far that adapting goes when you change the inputs and outputs by so much. It really needs an individual tune. Good luck! it will be fun watching! Post early and often!

Definitely skip the plenum, it does NOTHING

What we should do is take bets on how much improvement actually is realized for $8,000. My bet is 2 hp for every $1,000 or 16hp total.

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A rebuild with a bigger bore sounds even steeper. A � you may as well � argument. Every project has its limits and its goals. Don�t want a new engine. Just breathe a little more life into the one I have. Bolt on bolt off. Maintain the integrity of factory build. It�s only done 29,000 miles. I�d tear down and rebuild only after it�s been ridden hard put away wet.

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Even if you did this you'd still want to at least change the exhaust to something else. My car has a 3.4 to 3.6 with bone stock exhaust and the sound is pretty sad to say the least. Probably the quietest/worst sounding exhaust of any car I have ever owned and I think M96s have the potential to sound amazing. I will never understand why Porsche opted for the mufflers they did. I haven't decided what route I want to go yet though, so it's stock exhaust for me for now. To the op, I say go for it and document the results if you can. I will also throw out that Soul has been getting a lot of love lately and might be worth a look if you haven't checked them out yet. Edit: I see you are in South Jersey, definitely see if you can't take Fabspeed up on their offer to Dyno test the before/after. I can't remember the name of the thread that that discussion was in, but it was started by ZBomb.

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2 recent dyno tests on �99 3.4s prove that the IPD plenum does work. It increases the hp and torque throughout the rev range. But I haven�t seen any good ( same day/conditions/dyno) tests on the 3.6.

Tests using the 3.6 don't show any improvement using oem headers. I will eventually test the fvd m&m headers by adding then to my 200 cell cats and sport exhaust which fvd claims can extract some performance from the ipd/tb. But not until next year. But it will be very interesting to see the aggregate improvement in power the OP gets with the fabspeed kit since it includes everything. Doubt they will be willing to do a dyno part by part. But you never know.

If it�s just the sound that bothers you do the Fister or Gundo hack and save $7500.00� If you really need to dump the cash go for it - just don�t expect some kind of magical performance boost� ain�t gonna happen

I'm curious to see what you make, I'd suggest having Fabspeed do the dyno comparison they've been talking about for some time. Justin has a very similar set up btw.

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i have one and it made zero difference. Headers and high flow cats on the other hand, provided immediate improvements, as did the tune. I�d like to see said dyno tests.

In my experience, you don't get much power improvement from the bolt-on route. The Soul and Fister sound glorious!

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You Tube You Tube

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apparently my *** can�t feel 10hp. I love that green color.

What are you trying to achieve? Looks? Performance? Sound? I wouldn't do it in a million years. The 996 engine is very difficult to improve on with bolt-ons. I don't like K&N-type air filters and it is a hot air intake instead of the stock cold-air intake. A lot of the gains in HP with exhaust are often at the expense of low-end torque in the real world. Maybe the cats and tune will give you usable power. I just haven't seen anybody do these mods and say that it made a huge difference. To me, any reduction of low-end torque is the last thing you want because that's what makes the car feel responsive in normal driving. You will retain the highest value keeping it stock. If you want more sound, do the Gundo hack. A lot of people saying to do it, I suspect, are saying that because they want to see the before and after dyno results, not because it's wise performance investment. On the other hand, it's your car and the most important thing is that you do what will make you happy (yes, I want to see the dyno result also )

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ok the thread where we were going to do testing was the Carrera S 3.8 airbox showing noticeable gains versus fabspeed intake. I was all for doing some testing but I bought my turbo. Anyway I still love the 99 and after seeing some more gains with the ipd plenum I�m actually having it installed Tuesday. I�m also going to switch headers with Tex squirrel, he�s getting my souls headers I�m getting the agency power and cash. Anyway when I got my car 91k miles I was able to hit 60 in 4.9 seconds. Now I�m at 4.6 with carrera 3.8 s airbox, fabspeed catless x pipe, soul headers and an apr tune. I�ll be taking the rear seats out to basically make the car as fast as possible without going with a bigger engine. The car had fabspeed max flow exhaust and a bore out throttle when I got it. I have also removed the front spare tire. The 99 vs the turbo are completely different driving experiences. I love both of them.

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Hopefully I can contribute to the universal data out there and answer some questions in the process. Will see if they are willing to do pre and post dyno runs. Although I have a feeling they won�t do it given the possible downsides. I imagine it will be more enjoyable to drive afterwards with increased throttle response, different power curves and improved sounds. Doing the entire exhaust head to tip per se. I still haven�t had any response from them either on here or personal email. They seem awful tied up with the gt3 race among after market companies.

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I found a few previously enjoyed 3.8 air boxes out there for decent prices. Definitely a temptation given what the hive has to say about the 3.8 box vs aftermarket systems.

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I hear ya. At present it is my toy and project car. Ease of the work and the debate that exists out there regarding pros and cons of aftermarket gear make it interesting. I think it will make me smile which is the ultimate goal. Unless it has less power or causes some catastrophic engine failure, it should at least sound good. The money ? Well. Yeah. It has appreciated in value since i bought it. Sorta pays for the mods if I decided to unbolt ��em and resell it as stock. Not looking to do any permanent changes, which is why this intrigues me. Count down continues��

Personal opinion and experience on car mods; suspension, engine/chassis mounts, good shifter, and brakes are more fun than power. For that money, you could get some good shocks and all adjustable arms. I bet you'll end up with a faster car afterward as well.

no word yet from fabspeed.. maybe given up on us?

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what kind of bolt ons have your tried so far?

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I hope they do, but doubt they will.

Well... they offered and about 2 to 3 or 4 people so far did not commit to the trip and putting up their cars for the test. My guess is they don't want to waste their time and I don't blame them.

It wasn’t for the lack of volunteers but fabspeed just stopped responding we had 4 cars ready to go

If youre looking to spend money and make no more power then go for it. Otherwise this is a waste of coin. If you want more power, sell the car and get a turbo.

I would tell them if a independent dyno shows 20HP before and after then you pay for it otherwise its free. See if they will step up..

This question is like going to a bar and asking everyone "should i have a drink?" We're happy enable. Do it.

@kincedn9 Wondered if you had any updates or pulled the trigger on the full Fabspeed system? @Fabspeed Motorsport definitely interested to see it dynoed before and after- as previously discussed in another thread.

Sounds to me like they spoke too soon on the before an after dyno test, which would actually hurt their business if it proved to be a poor result. doing it on a case by case basis for a one off guy is different than a full on test of several cars that will then be posted for the forum to dissect.

@Type65 and OP, FWIW I have the Fabspeed Xpipe with 200 cel cats and stock exhaust and it sounds awesome. Nice and quiet under normal throttle but a beautiful sound that�s slightly louder under throttle. No drone either and never too loud in the cabin.

going to get pre and post dyno runs! I received the IPD box in the mail today.... shouldn't be long til the rest of it is finished and can be installed... will keep everyone posted. It looks like we will get some good data out of this. i'm keeping it bone stock for the first dyno run and then installing all of it and then a dyno run at the end.. unfortunately it would take too much time to dyno after each piece.

bout 2 weeks to go... we gotta keep this thread going to keep it popping.

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so true... and yes.. I found my target audience to help as the catalyst.

Looking forward to seeing these before and after results, thanks @kincedn9 for getting it set up.

Sorry guys. It�s been taking longer than expected for the parts to finish production. I�m feeling a little pushed to the side with all the media blitz centering on gt3, Ferrari and what not. will continue to update as I find out.

Did Fabspeed offer to dyno?

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Not really. You can pay em to do a pre and post mod dyno. Nothing comes for free. Except advertising for them I guess. So I will cough up the dough to have it done because it�s gonna be worth it to see what the numbers look like.

If you have to pay for the dyno's then I would recommend going with an independent shop for that. It's in Fabspeeds best interests to show a big improvement for the coin laid out. I'm not saying they would do anything funny but the incentive is there. I'm always skeptical of manufacturers claims of aftermarket gains. "Here's our before and after dyno sheets ". It's never a disinterested 3rd party's dyno. Or it's a member here whose "butt dyno" show's improvement but never verified. If you're doing it and paying for it, you might as well get unbiased results. Do it for science, and for the betterment of mankind. Plus we want to see it also

I think the issue will be is to ensure the pre-mod dyno is done on the same day/conditions as the post-mod dyno, otherwise there continues to be room for discussion around the results. The type of dyno matters too... but generally yes, it would be best if you could get an indie to do it, since you already have to pay for it anyway!

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anybody know any good dynos in the Philly region? I�m all about providing the best data that is going to have the best impact for our community, but I unfortunately do have a full time job with little free time and there will need to be some ease of getting this stuff done. open to any suggestions. Having fabspeed do it is the most convenient, but will be open to scrutiny.

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I would just do in at the same time of day with similar conditions. You are more likely to get a better result than the same day. Same day: cool in the morning, lower humidity, maybe. Afternoon is probably much warmer, dewpoint may be higher or lower etc. Shoot for the same time of day both times. Even successive dyno pulls vary minutes apart from one another. Just try to duplicate the conditions as best as possible.

Look at this point any pulls posted would be welcomed even to give us a baseline figure finding real figures for this setup is all over the place and fabspeed is no help at all

This is why we never see meaningful data on mods. 1. The mods are expensive, 2. manufacturers don't want to give away free samples to test because it's not in their best interest if the test is not positive 3. and its a PITA and costly to dyno them part by part. Not to mention, if a company or organization does get a free sample from a partner, sponsor, supporter, the last thing they want to do is show any warts. As a result, it has always been an expensive guessing game. Headers ~$2k Cats ~$2k Mufflers ~$2k Plenum ~$1k TB ~$0.3k Software ~$1k Labor ~$1.7k Total Cost ~$10,000 Estimated performance gains: ~ 10-20 HP/TQ $500 to $1,000 per HP/TQ gain.

How we�re looking OP? Didn�t you want to have this stuff on the car by now and dyno�d?

Update?

Jumping in on this one guys. I'm currently in talks with Fabspeed to hook me up with headers, x-pipe and exhaust. And no, my primary reason is NOT for performance but rather because I've been busting my *** rebuilding this damn car and I want it to run great, look good and sound AWESOME. Plus, these kinds of bolt-on mods will increase the re-sale value, ESPECIALLY with an IMS solution, no borescoring and, like me, had it bored out to a 4.0. Plus, I know that I can "drop" this whole power unit into a new body at any point too cuz on a high-mileage examples you're really paying for the engine anyway, right? I mean that was before the Pandemic but still holds true somewhat. My only decision at this point is to run it cat-less, keep my stock cats, and swap them come annual inspection time. This will not be a daily so emissions can suck it.

Imho a 200 cel cat is where it is. No cats mean the car smells like raw fuel all the time. 200 cel cost $ but basically the same performance as no cat and it will pass emmisions in 49 states.

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The engine is in the back so as long as you're moving forward the smell is a problem for the cars behind you. 😎

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This is still dumb. You literally lose nothing with good cats (200 cell)...

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im running the fabspeed catless x pipe with the cheaters that I got from squirrel 🐿, passed inspection no issues. Also more weight eliminated out of the rear. If the ignition system plugs are good not that bad raw fuel smell. They said that Jake Raby FSI will be coming out with exhaust, headers etc, that would be sold thru ln engineering. I think where you will have to spend some money on the build will be the tune.

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I think you missed something. I already have good cats. I�m choosing not to use them and will got straight if I see fit. I don�t need to spend any more money on 200 cell cats if I don�t need them. However, if I needed cats I would definitely go with a solution like that.

IMHO, I'd run 200 Cell cats. I've tried the catless path, and was happy. But knowing the EPA I expected them to start coming down on everyday guys. I went back to stock cats and REALLY missed the catless sound. But like De Jeepers said, 200 Cell cats will pass Texas emissions test and reduce the fuel smell, which I actually like. Yes, you can cheat the Texas emissions test. But with a good quality 200 Cell there is no reason to cheat by using the Fabspeed mini-cats. I'm going to run cats until they get stolen. Then I might consider a catless x-pipe, unless the EPA is going to hand out 200 cell cats. Ha!.

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Or� an X pipe with V banded 180 cell CARB approved removable cats that can be swapped out to an �off highway� configuration with one wrench and 15 minutes of effort :-)

2 year update for anybody still subscribed. Had the install done and have lived with it now for some time. It feels and sounds awesome. Like an engine rejuvenation. Much more pedal responsive. Better low end power feel. Haven�t had the dyno to objectify it all, but from my seat did not really need it to know there is a considerable difference in how it drives. The tuning software I think adds a bit as well. As much as it can for a NA engine. There are some factory software bits that seem to limit things ( the little actuator on the clutch pedal for instance) removing speed governors, and helping the �cu manage the new bigger throttle body and intakes. This whole power kit really opens it up making the most out of the intake side with the cold air intakes, larger intake, IPD plenum� and then on the exhaust side manifolds, cross pipe, sport cats, sport mufflers. I could definitely tell the �cu was thinking about it all and took a little bit of time to recalibrate, but it�s definitely dialed in now and feels great. Much better low end feel. Before it felt a little sluggish on the low end now it�s �peppy�. The exhaust and intake sound really good. Does not drone at all. Can be quiet when driving 3500rpm. Above and when really getting on it, it screams and have really enjoyed the occasional tunnel blast. The sound it makes in the tunnel, puts a smile on my face every time. it wasn�t cheap, but it was a comprehensive kit, the fit and finish of it is high quality. And it really did transform my c4s, giving it more life and likely convincing me to hold on to it for a while instead of upgrading to a newer model. It�s all bolt on bolt off non destructive install so can be switched back to factory oem if ever need be.

I have the FabSpeed exhaust since 2003, $7k at the time. People who listen to my car always remark on how incredible it sounds. The fit and finish after all this time is near perfect. I love my FabSpeed!

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same on my 2002. Came with the car so no idea on cost. Love the sound at idle