Coilover Advice

I'm thinking about upgrading the suspension on my 996 C2. I currently have the Porsche X74 kit on my car and I'm looking for a step up from that system (looking for full adjustability and a little more capability). The kits I'm considering are; PSS10 - Is this system significantly improved over the PSS9 or is it just a mild upgrade? JIC Cross Competition Coilovers - Don't know much about this one KW Varient 3 Coilovers - This system seems the most capable of the three. But, people say it's below Motons in capability Anyone have experience with any of these set-ups? Any/all opinions welcome. Initially, this car will be for street only. However, down the road this will become a full on DE/Club Racing car and the Boxster will retire to a summer fun road street car only.

If your even considering tracking the car occationally...go with the kit JIC kit from Vivid.

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Do you have one (on your car) or have you driven a car with it? If so what were your impressions?

I've just put PSS 10s on with H&R sway bars. These are fantastic for a street driven car. Easy to adjust the ride height and the dampening. However when you adjust the height you are also changing the spring rate. This is find for a street car that you just set up once and just drive everyday. However if you're tracking the car and change the ride height to fit different track conditions, the JIC coil over height adjustment is independent of the spring rate. Clearly a better solution. Also consider changing your upper rear control arms and toe steer arm. The back end of the 996TT are a bit soft for the track and these component better control camber and toe steer on the track. Of course the sacrafice is they can be a bit stiff for the street.

I think if you want something more serious than the X74, go with either the JIC or the KW V3. The PSS9's height adjustment does not conserve the shock travel -- meaning, adjusting the height increases or decreases the shock travel. One thing I don't like about the PSS9/10. The JIC, KW, and H&R CO's I believe all have a full threaded shock body, which will allow you to adjust the ride height independent of the shock travel.

Cross also has solid spherical bushing and camber plates.

the pss10s aren't much of an improvement if at all over the pss9s. with that said, for you ray, all the coilovers you listed are pretty much within the same range. heck i was considering kw3s v. tcklines in the M3. to get serious with this, go big or go home. go motons/ohlins orstick with what you got cuz it's not really an upgrade. people recommending jics or whatever over your x74 i don't think really know what they're reading about. all this stuff i'm saying comes from years of reading up on s2000 fools who track the crap outta their cars and hang out with a lot of other track nerds. www.nsxfiles.com too. $1K per corner baby boy.

Ray, Here's my .02. Go with JRZ or Moton if you're looking to make that next jump. Even the JRZ's without the external resivoir are a better option than anything else you've listed. The JIC's are an attractive package in that they allow you to choose spring rate and come completel with monoballs and camber plates but when I looked into them I was a bit put off by some of the info I found on the internet about them and particularly that they only come with one standard valving unless you choose a sprint rate >1000 lbs/in. It made me a bit leary that they'd ship a shock with a 400lb spring or 1000 lb spring with no valving chagnes...BUT again many members here are happy with them and some even race on the JIC's so it could have just been undue concern on my part. I really wanted JRZ's or Motons when I got my H&R RSS clubsport coilovers but decided to go with a simple setup to learn the car and put more of the money into track days. I kick myself now for making that decsion despite being happy with the setup I currently have. I find myself wanting to tinker with settings now and all I can play with is the sway bars. Andy

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BIG +1. JRZ would be my choice. They are VERY close to Motons without the price of Motons. All the above listed are VERY similar in adjustability and dynamics. The JRZ's are infinitely adjustable and are built with VERy good quality. The JRZ's are my choice after my PSS9's give out. Good luck. C.

I got H&R from tire rack for $1850 and got the car corner balanced. Big difference.

JRZ over any of those choices Ray listed would be a no-brainer. However, Ray only mentioned those two choices (JIC or KW V3) possibly due to cost.

remember that if you go with a JRZ/Moton, the service intervals of the shocks will probably be higher (as gathered from the many owners on rennlist). JRZ's seem to need revalving a bit more frequently than motons, and a complex setup like multi-way adjustable Moton's/JRZ's are only as good as the guy setting them up.

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Not to mention customer service... it will be there with the JRZ unlike with JIC.

Ray, I might have an extra set of JRZ two way race shocks at a good price. Of course you'll have to denounce Kimi and pledge allegiance to Alonso but that shouldn't be a problem, right? My only concern is that I'm heard that race JRZs can corrode if used on the street. It�s something you would want to look into. Jim

I'm curious, Ray. I look at your avatar: a very nice example of a street 911. I look at your sig: an enviable example of a track 986. I know the X73/X74 suspension: Unless your streets are glass smooth, they are just barely streetable. With upgrading from them, are you now saying you will have 2 track dedicated cars?

I have the JIC 7/10 setup for street...very happy with it...

i find it laughable street pimp carreras are coming in here saying their JICs are great when Ray's needs/driving abilities demand far more than nice street coils. c'mon guys ! he ALREADY HAS a great street setup in the x74s! wake up

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LOL!! Don't hold back, BJ.

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being a street pimp carrera it's like me telling ray "yo dude the pss9s are totally radical for you man!"

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It's a quandry isn't it. I probably need car counceling... I like my x74 but, i'd like to be able to play around with the dampening, rebound, and ride height. I want to turn the car into a full on race car, but not just yet, so I want something that is still "streetable" (I'm willing to deal with almost race harsh on the street). It sounds like JRZ's and KW V3's may fit that bill (from what I'm reading on this thread). Has anyone here used the KW V3's or JRZ's on the street? Would Moton's just be stupid on the street?

dude ray you bag on pss9s being too soft for some reason but then somehow you think the JRZs or even the KW3s are better. bro for what you need, go big or stay with what you got. but yea, the ride height thing sucks about the x73.

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I don't know I've driven PSS9 986's and 996's and they felt soft (to me) on both cars. I have not driven a car with JIC, JRZ, KW3's, or Moton's. How do they all compare???

JimB, Audion30s, Chads I'd lean on these guys and they all agree on JRZs and if you want to spend more, then MOTONS you cannot go wrong. Seriously, leave the KW3s for the E46 M3 fan boy that is I, Ben Choi. I seriously don't think you're making a jump of any kind by going with these street coilover solutions over the X74. And with the PSS9s, perhaps you rode on a set that was old, on a softer setting, whatever. I know my PSS9s feel stiffer than the TC Klines I had on my Bimmer. If I was riding on 18s and didn't care for height adjustability, I'd get the X74 over the aftermarket stuff like you.

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No, you wake up and re-read his original post!!!

Ray, One benefit of the JRZ/Moton route is that you can have the shocks revalved to support a variety of spring rates. If you want, you can start with a softer spring rate while the car is a street car but when you begin to transform it into a race car you can have the shocks revalved and install a stiffer spring set. Many racers use JRZs and Motons among other solutions. I understand that Motons require a bit less maintenance than JRZs. I have JRZs and have been very happy with them but I have a race shop locally to provide set-up support. My club racer is still street legal (barely) and I drive it to the shop occasionally. It's tolerable when I adjust the bump/compression settings. -KJ

I`ve KW variant 3 with GT3 front control arms and H&R sway bars. All I can say is that variant 3 is excellent! I`ve some experience about Bilstein & H&R suspensions in 21st century Porsches and this is no doubt the best setup I have driven so far. Springs are rear 515 and front progressive. Pretty stiff but not that bad even in everyday use. A bit stiffer and uncomfortable than row 030 but not bad at all I (track driver) think. Dampers are the best part of this kit. Very high quality and performance. Manthey Motors have MM specs Variant 3 with a little stiffer springs and matching dampers if you wan`t to go stiffer than 515 rear. Edit: I`ve no experience about x74, jrz or motons

Ray, I kinda lost track of this thread sorry. I've riden in a Moton Equipped car (M3 not a 996) and as KJ already stated the nice part about the high end dampers is there's such a large range of adjustability that you can back off the compression and rebound drastically on the street and make for a very tollerable ride. Back to my personal experience, the M3 I rode in weighed right at 3100 lbs and had 900/1000 lb springs and the ride was firm but not punishing...probably not much different than how your stock X74 rides. However turn up the dampers and it's a night and day difference...one that you don't want to have on the street. I swear my H&R clubsports with 455/915 rates ride about the same as the X74 equipped car that I nearly bought prior to finding my red car, but again I don't think my suspension is really much better than what you've already got...same with the KW V3's...not that they're bad...but they're only slightly "better" than what's already on your car. Andy

Ray, Andy is spot on. Unless you are going to drive the car in a lot of bad weather you sould skip all the intermediate street stuff and go straight to real race dampers, the minimum of which is the JRZ RS or Moton Club Sport setup and then JRZ/Moton/Ohlins Motorsport dampers after that. Ohlilns makes a better damper but JRZ and Moton are easier to get support for. If you are really feeling spendy contact Angelo at ANZE Engineering he can custom build you a sweet set of dampers with Penske guts that will be better than anything you can imagine. The biggest advantage to the double and triple adjustable dampers is the ability to adjust the damping characteristics. If they are valved correctly you can get luxury car ride quality on street tires and race track perfection all from the same set of dampers. If they are valved wrong it will be a total nightmare which is why setup help is important.

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what an idiot

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What about me? Again, total novice here, but going by what a seriously crazy dedicated track guy said ( www.nsxfiles.com ) who actually did wheel-to-wheel racing, he was sharing with us how suspension tuning is black magic and very, very few people know wtf they're doing. I believe he ran Penskes or something crazy expensive like that (ex-Microsoft guy, retired) on his supercharged NSX. I'm not sure all this adjustability is necessarily a good thing, but I stick my original advice to go big (Motons/JRZs/Ohlins) or stay home (X74).

Ray, If you're interested PM me a number and I'll give you a call when I get back from Road Atlanta. I'm no expert but I'm glad to share what little I know. You've received lot's of good advice mixed in with some BS. On the good advice side are comments about doing it right the first time and using a good shop to get you set up. On the BS side are comments indicating that you can have a good street ride and a good track set up. You can't have both. The adjustments on the dampers are for changing the handling of the car not adjusting the ride. Another option to consider is picking up a set of the Sachs that PCA racers are taking off their cup cars due to a rule change. Jim

+1 on what has been said. SInce you have an x74/x73 setup already; one of the stiffest OEM suspensions around.. skip the street slick stuff like PSSX, JIC, KW and on and on. Since you really want to "play" with settings ie tune it then your choices are narrowed to JRZ 2way or 3way, Motons or harder to source for our cars Penske (prob the best shock made). There are a few more obscure names but let's keep it simple. Just one tidbit on this one... most people I know who have these hardly ever change the settings from what the shop set up because they don't know what to change and how it will effect the handling... Not saying you fall into that category But adjusting a 3way shock isn't easy peasy. The other thing to consider is that if you go JRZ or other you find a good susp shop who knows WTF they are doing and your chassis and have them match the shock valving to the springs you use. I'de say you are on track, no pun intended.

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Yup. The track 986 on Sat for warm-up, then the soon-to-be track 996 on Sun .

I don't want to take this thread too far off topic but I have to add some clarification to something I said earlier. When I said you can have a luxury car ride that was meant to be an obvious bit of exaggeration. However if the car is set up with spring rates to run a DOT R tire, say 700-800 lbs rear then it is possible to have a ride that is no worse and possibly better than the X73/X74 setup when the adjusters are set to full soft. This is especially true of 3 and 4 way dampers where the ride quality has more to do with the high speed adjustments than the low. Lesser dampers like the 2 way Moton Club Sport can be brought into the realm of acceptable in the ride quality area by turning the compression adjuster all the way down if they are valved to work in the middle of the adjustment range for the given spring rate. In any case I still think Ray should skip the intermediate stuff and move to a proper double or triple adjustable race damper. Benjamin, I'm sorry I didn't give you any love. Obviously we agree.