Ligher brakes for Porsche 996.2 C2

I have a 2003 996 Carrera 2 (C2). I put a stiffer Ohlins suspension on and am now trying to reduce unsprung weight to smooth it out a little. I have already ordered forged Fuchs wheels. The next place to look is reducing braking system weight. I can find forged aluminum calipers which are lighter, but not matching lighter rotors (Wilwood). I can find rotors with aluminum hats which are lighter, but not matching calipers (Girodisc--reuse stock calipers). I can find lighter front calipers and rotors, but the manufacturer doesn't make matching rears (Paragon). My main goal is lighter weight, but more braking power and heat capacity (while keeping the master cylinder etc. the same) is a plus. Below is a table of what I have found. It turns out that there are a lot of manufacturers claims about reducing weight, but Rennlisters and others have posted their measured weights showing the manufacturer data to be, let's say, overly optimistic. If anyone has a solution with both lighter calipers and rotors, I'd like to hear about it. My best effort at aftermarket brake data. There may be errors.

I commend the effort and applaud the data collection, it�s awesome to see all those options and weights (and prices!) in one place. I don�t think you will find much in terms of �lighter more functional brakes� without something drastic like a PCCB conversion. For the lightest setup, stock probably is the best option. Next best might be Girodisc� but although the mass is the same, they do have larger rotational inertia due to the bigger diameter. Brake capacity is a combination of cooling efficiency via airflow and the mass of the system allowing it to absorb and moderate the effect of the heat it�s absorbing and dissipating. Smaller (lighter) calipers will boil fluid faster, just as smaller (or thinner) discs will overheat pads faster. On the racetrack, pads will sometimes get grabby and lockup when they get thin, long before they are worn out� the material just has trouble managing thermally. Your decision is probably driven by use/expectation/goals. On the street, at stock HP, stock is nicely optimized. For more capacity with minimal added effects, Girodisc is the same unsprung mass with more capacity and more brake torque (caliper moved outwards). The. The bigger fancier systems after, but the pedal feel will be different, but you could change more to adjust. Wilwood or Tilton should have options for two piece rotors with Wilwood calipers, at stock or less weight. APR probably has a wicked setup for a few bucks too. I have worked to minimize rotating inertia for autox or general road feel in the past. Your tire selection, even in the same size across different models (PS4S vs Indy500 vs RS4), will have a bigger affect than the brake packages you list� it could be 3lbs/corner or more. If you want to save weight further, get a narrower stickier tire, with similar limits at another 2-3lbs of savings. That�s appropriate if you are happy with the current balance/grip limits but want the car to feel a little lighter/snappier.

Nothing you can really do to drop weight in the brakes thats worthwhile over the factory system. But you can do a couple of upgrades to improve the system with minimal weight change. Best deal is to keep your 966 calipers and go to the Girodisc hat and slotted rotors since you aren't increasing the caliper size. But you will get better heat dispersion, which should improve braking. The other option is to add the 4 piston Brembo GT big break kit to your list. 355x32 and 345x28. I run it on my 996.2. Incredible braking power on the track and overkill on the street. But you will be able to stop on a dime. No need for the 6 piston system which should save you money and weight.

Get a set of 17" 996 wheels and light tyres and see if you can tell a difference in response of your Ohlins suspension after turning the **** to account for lower unsprung weight. If you have the single ****, Road & Track version that adjusts compression and rebound (both low speed) simultaneously, then I believe you won't gain much. You need (good!) dampers with a separate/independent adjustment for high speed bump if you want to account for lower unsprung weight. Unfortunately the impression the 17" wheel and tyre combo will give you is also due to the higher sidewall, so it's not entirely representative.

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Thanks for the suggestions. The Wildwood front rotors have aluminum hats so they're just 2.1 lb heavier than stock each. From photos, I think the rears are solid iron, which explains why they're 7.9 lb heavier each. I did not see rotors or calipers at Tilton, just some other brake parts.

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I have the Ohlins Road & Track, so just one ****.

There are plenty of compelling cheaper ceramic brake options these days that I wouldn't hesitate to use.

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I saw RB-CCB, P/N 2C24 & 2C25. Front and rear are both 350 mm, which doesn't look right to me, as the fronts should be larger. Price $11,910. Surfing the net, it seems like unknown-brand ceramic brake can be risky. Is there one that you have seen used successfully?

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After you have had the chance to look at every possible brake option and configuration available for the 996, and weigh them, consider a couple of things... 1. whether you are a very skilled DIY and fabricator that can use brake parts from various Porsche models to customize a brake kit. 2. or if you just want a perfect fit bolt-on solution that was designed SPECIFICALLY for the 996 3. also consider whether you want to spend money on a big brake kit designed for the 996 with upgraded/bigger calipers and a 2 piece floating hat system with bigger rotors, better cooling and substantially more stopping power such as the 4 piston Brembo GT Big Brake Kit (355�32, 345x28). FWIW, i wouldnt waste your time or money with anything bigger. 4. or if you just want to spend money on upgrading the rotors to a 2 piece floating hat system with bigger rotors and better cooling that fit your factory calipers such as Girodisc. Your other option is to save some money and just keep the factory brake system you have and upgrade your rotors and pads until you are certain what you want.

What weights did you find for the Fuchs wheels? What wheel size?

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I think this is due to the cost of making CC blanks. Steel brakes are heavy and can be cut to size, so making them a little smaller is basically free and is a weight benefit. The CC blanks won�t have the same weight penalty but you would pay much more for a small difference in diameter.

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18" wheel weights for front and rear: Sport Classic, 20-spoke: 23.9 and 29.0 lb. (my car came with these) Carrera II, 5-spoke: 20.5 and 22.7 lb. (I bought some used and had them stripped and powder-coated) Fuchsfelge forged wheels: 18.1 and 19.4 lb. (-2.4 & -3.3 lb per corner)

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If you are really looking to drop weight in the car, the three easiest ways to do it is... 1. Get an aftermarket exhaust (200 cell cats & sport muffler) from a reputable manufacturer which can save you ~15-20 lbs. 2. Replace your factory seats with 996 GT3 seats or comparable Recarro seat can save you ~50 lbs. 3. Remove your rear seats which can save you ~20 lbs. if I remember correctly when I did all of the above nearly 2 decades ago, I dropped approx 100 lbs.

After that, I'd consider: 4. Lightweight lithium ion battery 5. Sunroof delete 6. Fiberglass ducktail engine lid

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Thanks! Are they 18x8 and 18x10? Some other size? I apologize for peppering you with questions about the wheels but I am outfitting my car with a set of wheels and paying a lot of attention to weight.

At the risk of raining on your parade, the lightweight brake "juice" isn't worth the squeeze. An OE 318mm one piece front disc weighs in at 8.6kg : Here's my custom 340mm x 28mm front disc with custom aluminium bell. It weighs in at 7.9kg (that includes the bell, the bell to disc fasteners, the caliper spacers and longer caliper securing bolts) : This is the evolution of the above two piece disc arrangement z, it utilises a 345mm x 30mm disc (it's the largest diameter, thickest disc you can get into a standard caliper. Disc, bell, disc to bell fasteners and caliper spacer with longer bolts comes all in at 9kg : Both the 340mm x 28 and 345mm x 30 discs provide far superior thermal management , and the thermal mass is where you actually want/need it, ie in the disc itself, not the mounting hub, the weight reduction for 340mm disc is reasonable considering the increase in disc size, and the additional 400g weight increase for the 345 x 30mm disc is well worth it for the added thermal mass. I run custom sprung Ohlins R&T's on my 996.2 coupe. The car utilises the 5 spoke Carrera wheels along with Eibach adjustable coffin arms and Hardrace adjustable caster arms. With a 996 Cup steering wheel, the steering feel is excellent, and the custom spring rates make for excellent ride once the dampers have warmed up. Whilst I understand the rationale behind reducing unsprung weight, I'm not convinced it's a particularly cost effective route to address the issue. But good luck anyway !! Edit : If you are hellbent on reducing the brake weights, check out AP Racing's caliper range. Here's a 4 piston front caliper that'll fit 330mm x 28mm disc and weighs 2.1kg (4.6lbs) https://apracing.com/race-car/brake-...m2-piston-area

This thread brought out some knowledgeable fellas. What are the practical limits of the stock brake system on these? With the stock 300hp on a 200tw tire and an aggressive brake pad, can they keep with the HPDE track work? Or is the Girodisc front/both required to keep it happy? More? Good fluid is a given. I�m curious if I should have a broader upgrade path planned or if the stock callipers are safe to stay. Not to derail OPs thread� maybe this will help inform them if there is real performance impact/benefit other than feel as a function of mass.

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I believe they are still racing the oem calipers and oem rotor sizes in the PCA spec class. The stock brakes are very strong. All yoi need are a good set of slotted rotors and racing pads with high temp brake fluid. However, yoi can get better braking performance with a big brake kit. The key is tires. The more brake power yoi have the sticker the tires need to be so you dont have more brake than tire grip or your abs will have a field day. Yep, you will also get a better visual with bigger rotors.

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All 18x8 front and 18x10 rear. I thought about going wider so that I could install wider tires, but that adds weight so I kept the stock wheel and tire sizes.

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I'm in California, so I'm pretty much stuck with the factory cats. CARB has a very short list of approved cats. I have Porsche Sport Exhaust and I can say that these mufflers are heavy. I notice it every time I removed them to change my spark plugs. The sound is perfect: a loud growl when I floor it, but imperceptible cruising on the freeway. I had an Alfa Romeo Spyder with a terrible drone and I never want to experience that again.

Dang. Those are really light but only go up to 330 mm, while Girodiscs are 340 mm front.

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Yeah. I get reducing weight in the car where it makes sense. But sometimes it just doesn't make sense. After 24 years of ownership with the same 996, the most important lesson i have learned is to take your time with mods to be certain its something you want to do because they cost alot of money. For sure, if you do choose to do the mod, make sure its of the highest quality so you only have to do it once.

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You don't need discs bigger than 330mm on an otherwise stock 996 (330mm diameter is the same as a 997.1 3.8 S utilises, albeit the 997 discs are 34mm thick, rather than 28mm thick) But the AP calipers utilise a pad depth of 50mm, whereas the OE Porsche calipers run a pad depth of 63mm, so you couldn't run the Girodiscs with the AP's, you'd have to go custom bells and AP discs. The AP discs would be considerably lighter than the OE 318mm discs and the custom arrangements I've engineered (the AP 330 x 28 mm discs would be sub 5kg) : https://apracing.com/race-car/brake-...-pro-5000-disc Allow 1 kg (max) for the bell, disc to bell fasteners and caliper spacers, and you're looking at a total weight saving between caliper and disc of 5kg. Fit 18" OZ Alleggerita wheels (8x18 fronts are 7.7kg) and you're looking at a 5.5kg per front corner weight reduction over your chosen wheels. I could recommend a lighter wheel option, but they come at a price and you're firmly into the law of diminishing returns territory... The AP calipers will be far superior to the OE Brembos, less flex, lighter, better cooling, cheaper/better pad options etc.

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The OP never really states "why" he wants lighter or better brakes. Is this going to be more of a "track" car or just a street car. I imagine the final goal would make a difference. Perhaps there is some combination of 996/7TT rotors+calipers that would work? Of course, another limiting factor is wheel diameter. A Turbo has 350mm fronts, Turbo S has 380mm fronts, needs a bigger wheel. I don't know if the C4S/996TT wheel carrier will fit in a "ordinary" 996, but maybe it does. That could lead to a rabbit hole of different brakes, wheels, tires, etc to get to bigger brakes. I seem to remember that "X-year" Cayenne rear rotors fit the front, but maybe only a C4S/TT car, don't remember. YMMV

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6 pot OE calipers won't fit on 996.1 or 2 C2 OE front suspension uprights. But irrespective, a 350mm one piece OE iron disc weighs 12kg. The 6 pot caliper 3.7kg and the pads 3.5kg. That's over 19kg ... As opposed to half that for the AP calipers and AP 330mm discs with custom bells. Cayenne 350mm rear discs do fit, but have the wrong offset, which means using some custom disc spacers/hub centrics. And the disc alone weighs 10kg ...

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For sure. A clear definition of the objective and application are important. If its weight savings, squeezing on bigger brakes from another Porsche with bigger one piece rotors and bigger calipers that are both heavier than the factory 996 set-up certainly doesn't help with weight nor cooling. But it will help to fill in the wheels. To put it another way, if you gave me the choice of a solid one piece rotor or a 2 piece rotor/hat, I would take the 2 piece any day of the week to save a little weight and provide better cooling... For a dual purpose street & track car. But it may be overkill for a street car.

The OP states in Post 1 that the objective is for less unsprung weight due to his stiffer Ohlins suspension...( to smooth out the ride) His secondary objective is to retain or improve brake performance, while accomplishing the primary objective. ( unless the objectives have changed and I missed it ) Weight reduction while retaining or improving performance is a highly $$$$$ endeavor .... Good luck and I hope you find a satisfactory combination ...

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Thanks for correction and better specs on 996. I have a C4S, so almost always parts are different in suspension, brakes, this and that. AT the moment I do not know what larger rotors are available with OEM 4S rotors (330mm) in front, or rear for that matter, for more "brakes". ANother project for another day. YMMV

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That's right: less unsprung weight. Better braking is a plus. I'm also thinking about how to make my 996.2 with X51 engine closer to a street-friendly GT3. BTW, I just changed my oil to Motul 300V Competition 5W50. Thanks for the recommendation.

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I'm OK with 330 mm front rotors. When you say "custom arrangements I've engineered," were able to assemble off-the-shelf parts from AP Racing, or did you have them make custom sizes? How much did this cost? I'm in California, so I can't drive over and talk to them in person.

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You can use a 10 or 11 mm spacer with the 4S calipers and longer bolts which lets you run 997 Turbo rotors front & back. Very commonly done on 996 Turbo.

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The calipers, discs and disc to bell fasteners would be off the shelf AP Racing components. The bells and caliper spacers would be custom. If of interest , I can DM you the details of the company in the UK that will make the bells and caliper spacers.