Celebrating my 5th RMS

Soon to go into my car is its 5th RMS. This being an Olympic year I thought I would commemorate the occasion

Ah, yes... a "true" enthusiast. Let the games BEGIN! Good luck on your endless saga

Awesome!! What happens when you have six?

It becomes an Audi

rotflmao!! haha first time i smile today! thanks

I thought Audi only had 4 rings

OK then it becomes an Audi with two RMS faiures and it earns a fellowship in The Lord of The Rings.

I am going to miss that seal now that the 997 is out, as it looks like the 997 uses the same seal as a Cayenne. Next time I am at the parts counter I'll take a picture of a Cayenne seal so 997 owners can be prepared.

Well, Berny has had terrible luck, but I'm beginning to think I'm on the trail. First I had my oil pan cover replaced because oil leaked thru the bolts; now I've got the solenoid gasket leak. Beginning to wonder what's next. Only 15K with one year to go on warranty. I guess I should drive the sh*t out of it for a few months!

Better yet, you can get a tattoo like I did!

Hey Jeff, to me that sounds like some good news. If they changed the seal then it's possible they have thought the design out again. Surely they must know about the 986/996 RMS issues. I guess they can't say anything about it though as that would be an admission. Let's hope they fixed it this time round......but I sure aint going to buy a 997 until its a few years old. Don! not your beautiful cab. Sheesh I just hope that PNA no how much your cab has been drooled over on these boards and as a result how much free advertising they have got out of it. They should be handing you a 997 Cab free to when you comes out!

Berny, How many miles (whoops km) have you been getting between seals before they start to leak?

1 @ 27,000 2 @ 29,367 3 @ 33,000 (approx) 4 @ 37,183 5 still in the car @ approaching 40,000 These are miles = 1760 yds pr mile (not sure if the US mile is different). The irony is that they want me to pay for the 5th. I payed towards good-will on the 1st and all the others done under warranty since but now they want me to pay again......although I stood my ground and they finally agreed to do it free. I should also mention that there is a possible chance that the 4th was never changed. They have no record of the seal change but I took it in to have it done and they said they had done it. Finally, at the 1st seal change they noted a whining in the gearbox but refused to fix this without a huge cost to me. Then at the 5th RMS they refused to replace it because the OPC engineer diagnosed that the cause of all my RMS problems was my faulty gearbox. So he said unless I replace the gearbox he would not do the RMS again. Again, this has no been overruled by Porsche GB HQ.

Berny, this is terrible news, and I am sorry to hear your going through this. I will say stand your ground with Porsche, not at the dealer level, but higher up! Far as you can go! This is complete BS what the dealer is doing to you. Some point in time, Porsche HAS to recognize they do have a problem, design issue whatever one will call it. I am patiently waiting for the first report of a 997 RMS failure. I hope they have solved this problem, but then again, its all about the bottom line to Porsche these days.. Good luck!! Let us know what transpires..

Maybe its because you thrash the guts out of it?

that's bs you should have a warranty on the rms. I have had mine replaced under such

Come on, it's a Porsche! They used to be built to withstand the 24 hours of Le Mans. Besides, from what I've been able to learn, RMS is not related to how hard the car is driven.

Thanks Chris. Things are slowly progressing but the problem is Porsche GB give us a real bad deal over hear. You guys in the US don't know how lucky you are. Not to mention we only get 2 years warranty! Thanks for your sentiments anyway, its much appreciated. I am in the litigation process so don't worry I have not gven up yet. munro86, hardly. I treat my baby with respect. It's never been tracked always garaged and only used at weekends. It has also been serviced by the dealership by the book. I have never thrashed the car. Sure I have floored it hear and there. It is a Porsche after all but I am in this for the long haul and I hoped that this car would last me a lot longer than 30,000 miles when it was diagnosed with both engine and gearbox problems.

Oh and BTW, I have been dealing with PAG directly. But they will not move either way from any decision made by Porscge GB. That word has been made final. Strangely the lady I spoke to in Germany (Annette Barbara-Wilke) who is head of worldwide customer relations was completely sympathetic with me when I spoke to her. She first asked where I had got her phone number from then went on to say that after hearing my problem she fully understood why I needed to contact her directly. She even said she would have done the same thing had it been her. But no matter, she can only suggest a resolution to Porsche GB but she can't force them to carry it out and whatsmore, she would stand by any decision made by Porsche GB no matter what the outcome. Porsche GB's decision is final, Basically they say go fish. Oh, I also explained to Annette that this is my 3rd 911 and that I am a loyal customer. It didn't change things. IMHO Posrche AG have no care about customers and they don't back their product. I think that the situation is different for you guys in the states because of federal import laws and things like the Lemon law you have, Anyway, Porsche NA hide the deficiencies of PAG and it seems that for most of you, you will get looked after by the network. What we need here in the UK is to have Porsche GB to treat its customers with the same fairness as that enjoyed by you US owners via Porsche NA who have a more relaxed and fair policiy towards itscustomers. You also have to understand that not only do we only get 2 years warranty but we also pay in pounds Sterling what you pay in dollars for the same product. That is, a new 997 is about �60,000 base model. That's $100,000+. Additionally, it is extremely rare for Porsche GB to authorise new engine replacements for RMS and grenaded engines even on warranty cars. In fact I don't know of a single engine replacement for these problems in the UK but I do know several owners with their cars laid up with blown engines. It seems to me that PAG have moved out of the elite sports car market and have "grown up" so to speak in the car industry. They are now concentrating all their efforts into Cayenne's and 4 door models for the future and the stupid 997 tacky interior clocks. They have announced incredible profits but they wont be injecting any of that profit back into its customer base. So IMHO, the demise of Porsche as we know it is a reality. When did Porsche last race at Le Mans? Why take the 996 back to the 993? They have lost their way for sure. As you can see I am very bitter about the whole situation.

The sad thing about all this is that the engine you have in there will never stop leaking. My theory is that the real problem is that the case, which keeps the steel crankshaft carrier in place, will never hold the carrier in place and it will keep on moving unless you take the engine out and re-fasten the 2 halves. The last fix at the dealer (I was watching this as he was doing it) is the replacement of the bolts as well as the seal at the back of the engine. I watched the tech unscrew one of the bolts without a tool, that's how loose they get. unfortunarly, replacing the back screws will not tighten the rest of the case, so that car will be back. I had my engine replace at 11k miles and now have 24 k miles and not a drop. I was leaking from 6k miles on with the first engine. Obviously they tightened things properly on the remanufactured engines.

Didnt you read the warranty? Flooring the car voids all warranty expressed or implied

Berny, your post made me do this... ...and then this... ...and then I thought about how you must feel... My sympathies!!!

Scouser, I've wondered about this question of driving styles.You can drive hard and fast smoothly,but if you are prone to making jerky changes,stop/start hard acceleration,hard,rough cornering, I think any car,Porsche or otherwise,will breakdown eventually. It is somewhat of a myth to say that Porsches are bullet-proof, it may have only taken one early "abusive" incident to comprise the whole seal/crankshaft environment, which, unfortunately, sounds like its unfixable with your present engine.I've witnessed young guys brutally redlining 996's, which made me wince!!!

munro86, While its obvious that driving style will have a direct influence on certain issues, the RMS leak is completely unrelated to driving style nor milage. Do a search on it on the 996 & Boxster forums to find out more about it.

Agree that constant abuse to any machine will eventually cause it to fail through wear & tear. But I don't drive it anything like that. In fact I am probably one of the meakest Porker drives.....sadly this is something I would love to overcome but I guess I just can't. An example, I see postings of how fast you can take the car. The fastest I have ever done in my 996 was 123 mph and then I near crapped me pants. As for cornering hard and shifting jerky, not me. In fact last time they took my RMS out the engineer remarked that my clutch had plenty of meat on it remarkably for a 37,000 mile Porker! First of all, if you speak to Porsche GB or Porscg AG they will tell you very clearly that their engines ARE bullet proof! But if I was abusive to the engine then it would have (possibly) caused damage to things like cylinder liners, big ends, and other stuff. Very unlikely to have been the cause of the RMS failure. And besides the cause of the RMS problem in these engines is now well known and well documented. You need to research this more before you make any further unjust statements in this matter. You can't brutally redline these cars. You either redline them or you don't. There's no brutality in the equation. Furthermore, these cars are goverened so that you simply can't take it past the redline even if you wanted too (unless you had it moded of course). But taking the car to redline is safe. That's the reason the redline is there. I am not going to lie and say I have not redlined my 996 several times but I don't do it that often. In fact rarely is a better term in my case. Finally, I am near 50 so my days of trying to impress the birds by drag racing are over. I used to do that in my Triumph Stag back in the 70s Nowadays I just like the driving experience of the Porsche, It's just a pitty that the experience is tainted with worry...another reason I don't drive the hell out of my car.

Scouser, Porsche is certainly not the company it once was. It's all about profit. Even if it comes at the expense of the customer and their reputation. Bean counters run the Co. and on paper it would seem that the cost of the problem barely shows up on a variance report. When you talk with people who have owned and loved Porsches all their lives or the new generation coming into the fold (probably not to stay because of the above) you find the problem is a VERY BIG issue regarding the quality of the product and the customer service. Porsche built cars that were damn near bullet proof for 50 years. Small problems, sure. Racing seems to be the key. Beat the hell out of the vehicle, whatever breaks make it better. As for the retro look, that's arbitrary. Some, like me, like it very much, it shows it's lineage. It's not a clock, it's a chronometer. Mabie a little cheesey. Porsche has a responsibility to remedy the obvious problem with it product. You should be able to drive the $hit out of that car and not have the same issue over and over and over and over, and did I say, over again. Stand your ground! You are paving the way for many others. Good job and good luck!

I agree, but I can't say that I agree with some of the other opinions expressed on this thread. The Porsche 996 is a Sports Car and it was meant to be driven hard, otherwise why spend so much money for the car. So it's fine to drive the Porsche hard, but not too hard? I've had my '02 C4S for over a month, and I have to say that in my opinion, I drive the car hard regularly. So far I have had no problems with either oil leaks or any other mal functions, but for as much as I enjoy driving my car there's no way that I could tolerate the problems experienced by Scouser. No car is worth that much aggrevation. To make matters worse Porsche GB doesn't seem to give a dam. Apparently business must be good, and they don't have the time to resolve legitimate problems of their loyal customers. When a company tells me in word or deed that they don't want my business, I listen. Otherewise they will never learn the error of their ways.

wow- thats pretty bold from someone with less that 10 posts here.

wow. what astounds me, is that we have the same model year car but our fortunes couldn't be more different. i'm approaching 85k miles and never had a leak of anykind. fwiw, the 997 uses the same seal thats on the cayenne

I hope you haven't had the same dealer make the repair each time. With that frequency of failure, makes you think the replacement work was shoddy-- or the mechanic is pissed at you and he's nicking the seal on purpose!

Scouser, if your car was under warranty for the 1st RMS replacement, WHY would did you pay for it ?

Becuase the first RMS wasn't under warranty, otherwise he wouldn't have to pay for it. What I read in his post is that what was under warranty were the following RMS', under the post-repair warranty.

Oh hello there RR, been waiting for you to turn up. For those of you that don't know it, RR likes to boycot my postings and his method is usually to try to drag them down. (note he still hasn't registered). I don't think he actually owns a Porker but he likes to puvey that he does. I told him last time in a previous posting that I would just ignore any further more posts from him. So before you go any further RR here's a free ticket outa here...

Bernie, Look at the positive side, you get an oil change every 3000-4000km You know in the States when you have your oil changed you get a nice little sticker for your windshield to remind you of your next oil change. Maybe you should ask them for one of those so you know when to come back for a new seal. Sorry to hear about the trouble. Mike

Why do discussions always get unpleasant when contrary opinions appear? We are in a democratic forum fellas, not North Korea. Instead of whacking away every divergent view you might try listening and then we all might learn something.Oh, and what I meant by "brutally" redlining was this: I was standing outside a friends engineering workshop when a blue 996 Cab passed his entrance at absolutely peak revs( the road was only about 500 metres long-sorry metric in Australia) I said:"Man he's flying" Friend: " He does that everyday". At then to my astonishment he came back again at the same breakneck speed, and then pulled up quickly as the end of the road was rapidly approaching!! This is the sort of "brutal" driving I'm talking about. Quite different from clean acceleration and gear changes at the appropriate places-not up and down a short back street. My point is is that "redlining" under any conditions is not ok. If you watch the Carrera Cup cars (particularly the in-car footage) you are immediately impressed by the efficient and relaxed driving style-they are not ripping and tearing like the guy I saw-so my conclusion is is that any ol' redlining is not "ok" because its a "Porsche". From my viewpoint its just plain commonsense.

"Demise" and "incredible profits" seem strange bedfellows to me. Steve 99 996 76 930 64 356C 62 356B

i can't believe some guys here talking about driving the car hard Its a Porsche for gods sake - not a Hyundai or ford taurus - If I drop $50k on a car that retailed for $80k with the kind of sporting heritage that Porsche has then I expect it to be able to accelarate to 120 mph, redlining in every gear - my first car, an alfa romeo coped with this, my second car, a bmw 320 coped with it, my third car, a boxster coped with it - and now from reading this post apparently my 996 CAN'T?! This RMS thing has me a bit worried admittedly, but as long as i properly maintain the vechicle I expect it to stand up to vigorous driving... if it doesn't then my affair with Porsche will end and I will buy the new BMW M4 For those of you worried about nailing the car because of past reliability issues - fair enough, for you who have a 300+BHP car to drive to blockbuster and worry about redlining the engine - I think the Arnie 'girleymen' comment from the recent GOP conference is appropriate JMHO

Hey doesn't this apply to lemon law?

No such thing in the UK.

Sorry about that didn't pay attention to the UK part when I asked... What was there excuse for not covering your trans problems? Does anyone know how the RMS is different on the GT3 engines such that it's never a problem?

scouser, i am very sorry about your RMS AGAIN.... don't kwon how UK works, but in my 2002 996C4S i had a tiny leak, they measured the hole which the crankshaft exits and promptly replaced my engine without me asking. after that, it never leaked. 2004 996C2, i drove the **** out of that car. 4000 track miles, 16000 total miles in 6 month. i destroyed the catalytic converter, the inside shreded from heat (replace by warranty), the dealer knows i track, i have roll bar, GT3 fixed back seat, lap timer and 6 pt harness and my helmet in the car. the car never leaked. if possible in UK, i would argue with the dealer until they are blue in the face or else i won't leave their shop.. this is not acceptable.

Brian PA, no probs re paying attention They haven't given an excuse for not replacing the tranny. Basically the car is out of warranty and legally they don't have to offer me anything. However they have offered me 50% of cost in good-will. The thing is, I am not happy with this as the car had just over 4k miles on it after its 24k service when they told me the gearbox had a whine in it. AFAIK the tranny should last longer than 27k miles in these cars and therefore I am asking them to replace it FOC. But it wont happen. I have hung on for over a year now and the tranny has got noisier but it never misses a gear change. An independent thinks its just the pinion bearing but to be sure he would have to down the gearbox. Then if he finds it's worse then I am up for a replacement. So I might as well go for the new one from Porsche GB with 2 years warranty (BTW: I was stated this on the phone. Even though my car is out of warranty, the replacement gearbox will have 2 years warranty). It will cost me �3,300 all inclusive (taxes), inc fitting. The GT2/3 & TT engines are entirely different. They use different blocks. Consequently they don't have this RMS problem (although there has been some reported but every marque has a few troubled RMS problems). The problem is only in the 996 C2/C4 and the 986. Mooty: Believe me mate, I am doing all I can to argue with them. This RMS thing as we all know it is a manufacturing flaw or a design error. All of us are potential victims of the problem. I intend to fight them tooth and nail. Cheers for the sentiments. Laurence 97 C4S: I wish I had the choice of going to a different dealer but I don't. The way it works here in the UK is that you have to take it back to the dealer who did the service in order to get the job done again without charge. If I go to another dealer, I will have to pay for the RMS and the cycle will have to start all over again Besides, Porscge GB have said I must go back to my dealer who did the repair since they have negotiated with the dealer ( a franchise) the cost. The main issue I have right now is that with all these RMS's I am going thru it is a cert that the engine needs to be replaced. If my car was in the US then it would just about still be in warranty and there would be no questions asked. By the 5th RMS I feel certain PCNA would replace the engine. But here in the UK, Porsche GB won't do that. In fact they are likely to just keeo on replacing the seal after seal after seal. As far as I know, they have never replaced an engine because of RMS problems in the UK.....warranty or no warranty!

You are just going to have to move to the US when you buy your next Porsche to get better treatment. I have been on the UK message boards for several years and the way Porsche deals with UK people is not like what most owners in the US face. On RennTech I gave the recent example of my local 2000 Boxster friend Jean, and of course he has the 4 year warranty. Jean had 3 seals replaced while in warranty. It continued to leak and a 4th seal was put in after the warranty EXPIRED. The 4th seal leaked. Porsche "goodwilled" a rebuilt motor which was put in in July. That motor failed after 800 miles. Porsche oked another rebuilt motor, which had the same problem. Porsche then oked a new motor. If Germany got the motor here on time then Jean should have it in his car by now. This would never happen in the UK. And I can tell you one thing for sure. Eventhough Jean has been taken care of, Porsche has lost a repeat customer.

Scouser, have you ever thought that the car is not being driven enough? You do have pretty low mileage for a car that is 4-5 years old, and that rear seal may be seeping because it never seated properly. That's all I can offer, other than installation error, as an explanation short of declaring the RMS in need of recall.

Jeff I copied your statement to the PCGB forum. It has generated some interesting reaction. As for losing customers, well this is my 3rd and last 911. After the pain I have gone thru with this car, I would not own a Porsche again. So, they lost me as a loyal customer........and I am now at about the time where I would be a good contender to trade up to the 997. No way! ///alpinepower (interesting name). I think that close to 40,000 miles is well run in by now. The car is driven plenty. It's not my daily but at weekends it gets driven on long drives. The RMS isn't dangerous. I mean it's not like say a air bag failure. So it's not a safety issue and is not likely to be recalled. What i am after is a simple acknowledgement from PAG that if my car has an RMS failure it will be put right at no charge regardless of mileage (well up to say 100,000 miles). If that means a new engine well so be it. It's their fault not mine that the RMS fails so often in these cars. That's all I am after.

Well, Jean just emailed me. His "new" engine when in on Friday. Jean was told he was going to get a new engine after the 2 rebuilts. Instead Porsche sent another rebuilt. Jean thinks what he was told was to keep him quiet. The mechanic did not have the time to test drive it on Friday so Jean has not picked it up yet.

That's bloody awful. My best are they are running out of engines and only have rebuilds left. Porsche are seriously F*&ked up with this issue. I just winder if their shareholders are aware that this is all going to blow up in their face sooner or later.

Jean has gone throught this before so he is not stupid, He looked at the part number on the box the engine came in (engine was already in the car and they use the box to send back the old engine) and the part number ended in an X which means it is rebuilt. It also had green paint on the engine. He then asked the service advisor why he did not get a new engine as promised. Was told Porsche no longer makes new engines in his size. Maybe the only new engines they make are now for the 987s that are due to come out. Who knows.