Feal coilovers or ...

Been researching the various solutions for updating my '04 996 C2(coupe) suspension. Olins and others similar are beyond the budget and/or the needs for a daily driver with low annual mileage. Feal seem to be a good compromise with aprox. 1 inch lowering and some minor adjustments for castor, camber, ride height, firmness. No tracking and normal spirited driving with close to the standard settings for ride, etc. Those that have used the Feal coilovers are you happy? Would you do it differently if buying today? Any comments would be appreciated. A shock and spring change are also considered, but coilovers do seem to have the flexibility advantage. Thanks, David

Everyone loves them and I have a set ready to go on any week now.

^^^^ Nice! Can't wait for your review! Mike

I REALLY like my Feal coilovers. I installed them in September 2018. I’ve put about 14k miles on my car. (Daily driver) They can easily be set to soft for daily driving and when my wife rides with me, or really stiff for fun weekend driving. I cut a hole in the plastic shields so I could get to the adjustment ***** easier.

I finally had a chance to get my Feals installed. I opted for the regular 411 for my C4S but may upgrade to the Swift springs in the future. So far I've only put ~30miles on them but they're great for my needs as this car is mainly for spirited weekend sprints. One thing to note during installation is to make sure you install the front coilovers the correct direction...we initially had them installed backwards and wondered why they rode awkward lol. For those with these coils, what dampening are you guys running? I left mine at the factory 15 clicks from stiff but wondering if there was a sweet spot for those with more seat time.

Mine is set stiffer in back to help reduce understeer. I can’t remember what exactly they’re set to. I can check it later if you want.

Im following. I added the cost of different setups so far. RoW 030 with matching springs plus all parts to assemble Bilstein B6 with RoW 030 springs plus all parts to assemble PSS10 plus top plates Ohlins SS plus top plates and the Feal coilovers which seems to be half price and comes with adjustable camber plates. I know that sometimes you get what you pay for but I only hear good things about them.. I was planning to keep the car stock and it still a dream to drive my car as it was brand new (Which is why I still hesitate) But if you dont care about your car being modified and drive for pleasure I would defenately go with the Feal coilover setup. PS If you need price list for the other setups mentionned above let me know.. when you see the prices all-in added to the Feal reputation it defenately look like its the way to go.

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Bill - did you ever get yours installed?

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Got the fronts in and hope to get the rear this Sunday. I can already tell from just the fronts being done it FEALS better to me!

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Why do the camber plates look like they're installed 90 degrees off? Shouldn't the camber adjustment be from out to in instead of front to back (as shown) ? ** Oops never mind... They are! Duh...

Thread bump.... Rather than starting a new thread I figured I'd revive this one. Considering the 441+ for my car and curious if anyone opted for the adjustable bump stops or the extended damping adjusters. Those of you with the swift springs, what rates did you go with? Everyone still happy with their setup or have issues popped up? thanks in advance

Don’t get the adjustable damper adjusters. They’re not needed and not useful for the 996. My swift springs are: 700(F) 1100(R) My bump stops are not adjustable. (Was not an option when I purchased mine)

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Got it. How has your set held up? Still happy with them?

They have held up well. I'm very happy with them. I currently have about 23,000 miles on them.

I did get the adjustable dampeners for the rears on mine, I got the extenders for adjustments for my Cabriolet rear, they were not long enough,also got the radial bearings for top hats on front, great product.

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At my current usage it would take me a looong time to accumulate that mileage. Glad to hear Nice nice Thanks for the feedback guys. Seems like the 441+ are the way to go

I've got about 15k miles/ 24k km on mine now. Opted for 441+ w/ Swift springs (7/12) on my car - for Ontario (Canada) it seems bit too stiff to be honest , feel bit too oversprung.... Amazing on smooth pavement but very harsh on crappy uneven roads! wish I went bit down to something like 6/10 - which would be similar to GT3 cars.

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What do you have the rebound set to? I found that if it's too soft, you'll feel more crappy pavement than set in the middle. My definition of crappy may not equal yours since we don't have snow or ice down here in Houston. My friend's 996.1 cabriolet has the softest, smoothest ride I've felt. I believe he has the base factory suspension and it's in great condition. But I prefer a tunable stiffer ride that can go even stiffer when I want to hit the twisties. I normally use 17/20 for daily driving(speed bumps and rougher roads) and 23/25(or higher) for twisty roads.

I was talking to the guys at Feal and they mentioned that the highest the 441+ will go is 1" lower than stock. That said at that height there is a lot of preload on the spring and at the top of the shock travel not allowing alot of droop. How do you guys have the car setup? What is an average middle of the road lowering amount and how is the ride quality? The roads around here are absolutely abysmal and my goal is to lower the car a bit and potentially improve ride and handling with a proper alignment and damper setup.

I don't believe mine are 1" lower than stock. Mine are set to the highest setting. Here’s my heights(measured center of hub at the fender) with 225/30R18 & 285/35R18: Front Rear

Here’s how it sets with 235/30R18 & 285/35R18:

As I understand it (I'm not a coilover expert) the coilovers allow for proper preload and adjustable height. The height adjustment does not change the coil preload.

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Thanks - I believe when I went to the lower setting I notice some improvement in one aspect but the oversprung feeling was added. The current setting is from what I recall around 14/16, I've tried 22/24 prior, and it was a bit too stiff and very harsh and extremely responsive that tires skipped on the harsh pavement. I need to play a bit more, but rear access blows and requires me to remove the Bose speakers/system, hindering the process. Additionally, the single drive gives such limited feedback, and roads around the house are decent, but once I roll into downtown Toronto which is full of streetcar tracks and various pavement mixes it really impacts the drive. Yes, preload can be adjusted separately from the height. Feals recommends a certain amount (can't recall)

Interesting. Very interesting as your car looks a little higher than mine in the rear and I'm completely stock. According to what Feal told me yesterday MINIMUM drop is 1" and they cannot attain stock ride height. my car now this is what I'm going for

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I understand the access problem. Mine had the Bose subwoofer until recently. I had hoped the extended adjusters would help, but they were too inflexible. Now that my subwoofer is removed, I can't find the extended adjusters to see of they would even help any without the subwoofer. I don't think they will help any. They definitely won't fit in front. Feal told me the same about not being close to stock height. I asked if they could be stock height because at the time my driveway was too steep for stock height, but I was in the early stages of putting in a new driveway that would eliminate the steep incline. They suggested I wait until after I put in my driveway to purchase them, which I did. I decided I wanted them as high as possible still since I was commuting to a parking lot with lots of steep speed bumps. Now that I don't have that commute, I've considered lowering my 996, but decided to wait until after it returns from F6I since I figured it would be safer loading and unloading at stock height.

I am more than 1 inch drop on both cars with Feal set-up

It's hard to get a suspension to respond to high speed movement like sharp edged joints or holes and have enough low speed damping. This has always been the challenge in the dirt bike world too. I think that's what Ohlins was addressing with their "DFV tech" I don't know if Feal has any kind of blowoff valve for high shaft speed hits.

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And the ride quality is fine at that height? Those both look great

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Nice....

I am much more than 1� lower than stock. Factory alignment specs, 15mm spacers at all four corners. Stiffness at 28/30 clicks front 27/30 clicks rear. No rubbing, not harsh, and handles very well. Only real unsettling is over something rough like train tracks, and even still it�s acceptable. These are Feal 441 base model with upgraded radial bearings, but not the Swift springs.

I like my set. I have about 3,000 miles on them. The ride is rough in my opinion on the swift 12/6k springs. I just got a set of 10/4k to try and be closer to OEM. I have adjusted them from soft to stiff and the ride is just a little too rough. I would still buy them again though. I am installing new springs next week and will report back. Joey

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Looks good but too low for my use case. How far down did you drop it? (where in the adjustment range?) Please do. I'm curious to hear the feedback on the spring rate change

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I need a cab� you can send me either one of those� I�ll have to beat the ladies away with a stick. Sorry for OT - I couldn�t help myself.

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Very interested in hearing your take, please let us know. I'm so confused, I go back and forth between ohlins, kw, feal, silver...I live in NC so ohlins is a good choice, they are just up the road. But over 2x the price. For resale, kw or Bilstein or any porsche connected brand work well I think. But I'm not thinking of selling. But if I did. Oh boy. The only thing I know for sure is that my suspension needs refreshing, and I made a mistake in replacing the B4s on the rear because they'll be for sale soon. Another thing that confuses me about coilovers, is what was mentioned above re dropping the ride height being a real requirement. Is that true? That if your coilovers are set to there max height, they don't work at their best? Anyone? I don't want to go really low, just want a more modern and compliant ride compared to the 22 great old Bilstein tech.

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My Bilstein B8 Vogtland springs are lower than this. Added pillow ball rear camber and toe arms. I was satisfied where Canberra Australia's capital has roads of glass, speed humps of hell. Main intercity drive is 3.5 hours to Sydney on roads of glass but not in Sydney. As I am going 3.4 to 3.8 with Nickies - and the car off the road. I will be trialling 441+ Feals 7kg, 13kg. I will be interested in the ride outcome, the Feal top mount neg camber is nice as well. Not a daily - the convict heritage/attitude of Australians with keys, slamming their door into you, and coins locked out that possibility and not the car.

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Yep, it's sensory overload. Remember this, if you are a long term owner, you will replace your suspension a few times. I've owned my 2002 996 for 20 years. I replaced my oem suspension in 2006 with a Bilstein PSS9 coilover system which was the rage like the ohlins r&t system today. Funny thing is that 16 years later I still have it and it still works beautifully. Yes, I will replace it next year or the following year either with the bilstein club sport suspension or JRZs. But my car does double duty on the track and street. But to your point, what do you want. Do you want to refresh the suspension for a better ride on the street? Do you want to lower the car for visual look? Do you want to track your car and improve track performance? Alot of variables. Unless you are looking for a world class track suspension, my guess us that Feals will do the job. If you want to track and street the car, bilstein pss10 or ohljn r&t will do the job. If you want track performance and adjustability, the bilstein club sport, or JRZs make sense. Don't get caught up jn the BS. You gotta answer the question on what's your purpose. My wag is that Feals will handle the majority of requirements.

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You are suffering from analysis paralysis, my friend. Don�t overthink it. Choose the coil over you want, and get them set up properly. You�ll be fine. I can only speak personally on Feals, because that�s what I have. They provide great performance and relatively good comfort for a sports car. Very compliant even at my somewhat low height. I�m sure that Ohlins and others also can provide the same or perhaps better in some cases.

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This is kind of my summation. I'm not going to be tracking the car. I want height and damping adjustability. The feals are rebuildable and if I don't like the spring rates they are interchangeable. For the price it seems they can't be beat. Good feedback

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I installed the swift 10 and 4 springs. The car rides so much better. It is smooth. Not as soft as OE but not stiff either. I am very happy with the change. Joey

One reason I went the Feal system after researching for both cars, the Feal system is popular with the Subaru crowd among others also and rebuild able, investing half the normal cost allowed me to install the L&N IMS solution plain bearings kit in both cars with plans to keep the cars in the family for years to come.

I�m running feal 441+ with swift spring 10kg rear and 5kg front across the pond in the uk. I�m 4000 miles in and the ride is good but the front spring is just little too much on the bumpy back roads. can any one confirm the front spring size as I�m going to drop down to 4kg. thanks

[QUOTE=damo986;18352783]I�m running feal 441+ with swift spring 10kg rear and 5kg front across the pond in the uk. I�m 4000 miles in and the ride is good but the front spring is just little too much on the bumpy back roads. can any one confirm the front spring size as I�m going to drop down to 4kg. thanks[/QUOTE I did the same thing. I got them from Feal. It is the 65mm by 7 inch. I put the 10kg in the rear too. Joey

I don't think spring rate is the main contributor to harshness. High speed damping is what you need to pay attention to. coming from motocross, Ohlins have been in that game a while. You will notice they have basically relieve valve for high speed hits. Thats why the are able to run high spring rates on the street and yet provide compliance

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[QUOTE=Joey996;18352957] thanks joey. Springs ordered

I installed my rear Feal coilovers the other day. I haven't had time to swap the fronts out yet, but I may attack those tonight. Has anyone else had an issue with your rear sway links. My sway links thread into the shock housings, but they bottomed out into the shock body before the threads were fully seated. I figured it would be fine since it was seated firmly into the body, and they would never be able to loosen themselves up. I just thought this was very odd given my rear sway links are newer OE Lemforder units. What is everyone running for ride height? I have looked on the GT3/GT2 side, and most guys list weird numbers and I have no idea where they are measuring from. I have always set my cars up measuring ground to fender lip right at the center cap location. I saw someone did that above, but that doesn't seem to be an aggressive GT3 ride height setting. I am looking for slightly lower than factory GT3 height with some nice aggressive camber. My car is used for enjoying on the way to Cars and Coffee, back road blasts with car buddies, and the occasional track day.

I have installed Feal coilovers in a few C2 and one C4. I made these out of some spare conduit to make measurements easier: (with 18" wheels) These store easily by hanging on the string on the wall. Here are the measurements: Here is where to measure: The C2s have mainly been set to X74 height except for mine due to it being a daily driver with a lousy commute. The C4 was set to GT3 settings which are slightly lower than the above. We got the GT3 ride height numbers from a thread somewhere in this forum. I have a metric tape measure which we used for the C4. My C2 is currently set to the maximum height but that may change this spring. I may go to the X74 settings.

“I made these out of some spare conduit to make measurements easier: (with 18" wheels)” -TexSquirrel BRILLIANT! I have some PVC gonna get some choppin’!

So I'm also considering going with the Feal Coilovers to replace the Bilsteins and HR springs the previous owner put on my car. Mine is low, I don't know how much lower than stock because it hasn't been at stock height since before I bought it. But in the six years I've had the car the Porsche dealer and a local shop could never get the alignment just right and my car has eaten at least four or five sets of rear tires. My fronts are also now finally worn out so I'll need new tires all around anyway, but I'm wondering if anyone that has these Coilovers has had any issues with getting the alignment dialed in so the tires don't get worn out in six thousand miles.

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Just put adjustable rear toe arms on...which you should do anytime the car is lowered. That will allow the alignment to be dialed in correctly and fix your eating tire issue. Cheaper than coilovers.

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I agree. While not all of the Feal installs I’ve done included adjustable rear toe links, they all did include adjustable front drop links. These were not included by Feal, I suggested the owners buy them and have them installed at the same time. All of my installs have been aligned just fine, both with and without the adjustable rear toe links. But if yours won’t align, you require them. These are the most cost effective I’ve found: Adjustable Front Drop Links: https://www.vividracing.com/spl-pro-...151567390.html Adjustable Rear Toe Links: https://www.vividracing.com/torque-s...150724394.html

How are the quality with those Vivid Racing units? The rear tie links are definitely the cheapest I have seen. I may have to add those to my current build as I dial this thing in over the Winter.

They’ve held up fine after 20k miles of street driving.

Take a look at the Tarett drop links. Pelican has the best price I've seen. See here, https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...3511&DID=38414

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What should you do if they are not running stock tire sizes?

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Adjust as necessary by adding or subtracting difference in non-stock tire diameter versus stock tire diameter. You can find tire diameter on Tirerack.com or Discounttire.com.

I installed FEAL 441+ with radial bearing upgrade to my 996 turbo. I had Ohlins on my Carrera and the FEAL perform just as well as the Ohlins. FEAL also have a release valve built in. Ohlins DFV is mostly marketing. FEAL suspensions are used in many racing applications and have their own valving technology that does the same as DFV. I would highly recommend FEAL coilovers. I think the performance will come down to if the car is corner balanced and the settings you choose on the dampers. Otherwise you cant tell the difference between the FEAL system and the Ohlins. Both ride great and compliant if setup correctly. FEAL has a much more affordable cost. The radial bearing upgrade is nice since it eliminates any knocking sound when turning the wheel all the way. Just makes everything feel nice.

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Good to hear a comparison from someone that has run both manufacturers.

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Did you have these installed locally or did you do yourself? I am in Fair Oaks as well and considering paying someone to do this. What spring weight did you go with?

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.. Did both cars at home, I did the standard 441 set-up on both cars. i can help guide you thru the install if you want to DIY. if you go Feals I recommend the radial bearings and depending on tire and offset your running the adjutable bump stop for the rear are great.

is the radial bearing like a monoball top mount? or something different - whats the benefit of adjustable bump stops vs just using porsche OEM?

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If you have the details I'd love them

@TexSquirrel - I can't figure out how to message you directly. I'm researching these Feal coilovers and appreciate the feedback you've provided. I also live in Houston, do you ever attend any of the LSRPCA meets? Please send me a PM, I'm new to Rennlist and can't seem to find the send message feature. Thanks!

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As a new user - you cannot send PMs until you reach a certain number of posts - Tex should see your request though.

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I typically make the SW GTG at Blendin in Sugar Land. I will likely be at Blendin on Feb 17th. I make some of the others. But I don�t think I�ll make the upcoming Central GTG this Saturday. I bought my Feals in early 2018 and they have a lot more options now.

I'm going to be ordering a set this week for my 996 turbo. Has anyone purchased the long stroke option? The roads on my way to the highway are fairly bumpy and annoying. (Rhode Island / New England) I currently have Bilstein B8s with stock springs. Great in the corners but annoying over bumps. I'm looking at getting coilovers so I can get taller sidewall tires as well one size up. 4k 10k seems like the consensus here. I'm also thinking about the radial bearing

Are their sets complete or do you have to reuse anything from the original setup on the install?

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Complete. But depending upon how much you lower you may need adjustable drop links in front and adjustable toe link in rear.

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mine came with front adjustable swaybar links

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as someone who daily drives mine in harsh Canadian winters (Montreal) I�m also curious about the long stroke option. Anyone have first hand experience?

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That's great. They didn't when I bought mine back in 2018. Also didn't when I installed in a couple of other cars 2019-2021.

I am guessing no one has ordered the long stroke version?

A slight thread bump... sorry not sorry. This is the thread that Feal links to on their website, so might as well keep it going... Anyways, I'm looking to upgrade my suspension setup on my 996TT. It is currently the 20 year old stock setup. It is a semi-daily driver and only really gets used for some commuting and the occasional fun drive up into the mountains. I do drive it in the snow and on graded fire roads sometimes and there are enough big bumps in my neighborhood that I'd like to keep it close to stock height. Joey posted asking about reviews of the long stroke version and I'm looking at those as well. After reading through the thread, I'm also leaning towards asking them to include the 10k/4k springs instead of the 12k/7k springs like come standard. I've done some custom offroad rock crawler setup and for non-racing use we prefer to go with the softest spring rate that will still allow the ride height... but that is with a 14-16" dual spring coilover setup. Still...I'd like to have a compliant ride that I can stiffen up when I want to, so leaning towards the lower rate springs. Basically... just looking to check back in with the folks that got the softer springs and maybe someone that has experience with the extended length version and how it worked to go closer to stock. I'm also planning on getting upgraded or at least new suspension arms as well...so an overall suspension refresh.

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I got 5k 10k swift springs. I got the long stroke but it is still about stock ride height. Wish it was higher. 441PO-02MT+ $2,193.90 Feal Coilovers, 99-05 Porsche 996 (AWD) Desired Damping Adjustability (if unsure, see chart below):1-way, Swift springs (441+) Type of Driving:Balance Comfort & Performance Stroke:Long stroke - lifting capability, lower spring rate, increased comfort ("Max Travel") RADIAL BEARING UPGRADE:Radial Bearing Upper Spring Seat Pair BLACK SHOCK COVERS:Set of 4 EXTENDED DAMPING ADJUSTERS:Set of 2 Serial#FS 008236 CM 1 X $2,193.90 Radial Bearing Upper Spring Seat Pair $0.00 Radial Bearing Upper Spring Seat Pair 1 X $0.00 Feal Shock Covers - Black, Set of 4 $0.00 Feal Shock Covers - Black, Set of 4 1 X $0.00 PA.56 B $0.00 Extended Damping Adjusters (Version B) 1 X $0.00 Subtotal $2,193.90 Tax $0.00 Total $2,193.90 Payment $2,193.90 Balance due $0.00 I have a 2001 996 Turbo, it is a daily driver, no autocross or track use. Half of my commute is rough roads. I spoke to Drew. He mentioned I can do 5k front swift springs with 10k rear with the long stroke option. My plan is to keep ride height stock or a bit higher as well as next size up taller sidewall ratio than stock.

I installed my Feal 441s over the weekend. I haven't had the chance to drive it yet because I haven't been able to get the car aligned. (Also, still working on a few projects.) I am impressed by the build quality and the adjustability. I dialed the height adjustment to the "X74 suspension option" in the Bentley service manual showing 118mm (+/- 10mm) front and 133mm (+/- 10mm) rears based on the factory measurement points. The X74 option is supposed to be around 20mm lower than the ROW Sport suspension setting. The car appears to be a little higher than the H&R sport springs I previously had, although I failed to measure that ride height before removing them.

I have encountered an issue with my feal install, I think the swaybar links they sent are too long. I have the 441+ would any of you be able to see if I am missing something or if I need to get shorter links from feal? **Edit: Feal called me and we discovered I had been sent 180mm links and should be using 140mm links - problem solved** Also, is there a preferred "clocking" position for the base so the top mount tab of the swaybar link does what it is supposed to safely?

On the Feal website there is a a choice for "Type of Driving". Balance Comfort & Performance vs Road Racing. It's a $320 difference to get the Road Racing, but I can't figure out what exactly the difference is?? The help link goes right back to this thread... and I don't see any mention of it here. Also, it seems mostly people are buying them for improved cosmetics (judging by the driveway pics) and for improving road driving/commuting. Does anyone track with them? I am looking at building a canyon and track car. Just weekends at track for fun, not a full cup build or anything. One comment from July 2022 said " If you want to track and street the car, bilstein pss10 or ohljn r&t will do the job.". The Ohlins are the other option I'm looking at, but quite a bit more. Also, what is the radial bearing?

Did any try the 441 with standard 5/10k springs and the 441+ with Swift 5/10k springs? Did you feel a difference between the standard and Swift springs with the same rates? Want to know if the Swift is worth it for road driving only.

I have the swift springs and I�ve installed the regular Feal springs on other people�s 996es. You won�t notice a difference just driving on the street.

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Great. Thanks for the prompt response.

Still debating whether to get my PSS9 rebuilt or get the Feal. Have you rode in 996s with PSS9 before? Does the 441 have about the same range of firmness to soft? No track for me, just spirited mountain and city driving.

There have been a few questions about it on this thread, but no clear reply, so I'll ask again just in hopes that I get lucky: Does anyone have a review of their experience with the Feal 441 Long Stroke option on their 996? Looking for information specifically on the long stroke, if you have any.

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I think that�s a newer offering.

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I have a set on order. I wasn't looking for big lowering just comfort for my C4S. They recommended it.

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I have a set on my 99 C2 now. Ride is nice and I can still get the ride height I want. I went with their spring not the Swift upgrade.

Thanks for the info! Did you raise or lower it? How would you compare it to the stock suspension?

I lowered it from stock but it can go even lower if I wanted. The ride is firm but comfortable. It is hard to compare it to the stock 20 year suspension I replaced. I think the longer stroke was a perfect option for what I wanted.

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I can echo this. I've finally had mine back for about 24 hours after getting it aligned and put probably 30-35 miles on it. It is firm, but not jarring. It's perfect on the highway and around the burbs if the roads are at least decent. I could go a little softer still, and I might one or two clicks, but not much. It handles like a go-cart now though. Love them!

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Car stance looks great. You got the long springs or standard ones? 5k/10k too?

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Standard Feal springs.

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7/12k or 5/10k spring rates?

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6/12k, according to their site

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Really curious how those compare to the Bilstein PSS9 I have in terms of overall firmness and comfort compromise

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Yea I can�t help you there. This is my first car with coilovers. I could have gone Bilstein but actually read some negativity on the firmness. I could have gone Ohlins, but I don�t need that level of adjustment. Mine isn�t a track car. The goal is for it to be a track car some day, but not today. I bought it to get back into the car hobby now that I have a young family that I hope to enjoy it with, before I�m too old to enjoy it still. On the flip side, I�ve not read a single negative post on the Feals, in regards to Porsche anyway.

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Fair enough. I�ve been riding on the PSS9s as a daily for ~15 years. They�re not that bad in firmness. The most common issue people have with them is the adjustment from 1-9 is not linear. It�s basically full soft, medium and firm. So on the track just dial it all the way down to firmest, which really isn�t all that firm for track. On regular streets, highway and mountain drives, leave it few clicks above firm. Rough streets and pot holes are always annoying but that�s a given. I could live with the PSS9s indefinitely but one is leaking so I�ll have to either rebuild them, or get a new set. New Bilsteins aren�t worth the Pennie�s since I�m too old to track and only drive the car occasionally to keep it lubricated. I�ll probably get the Feals and try them. If the 6k/12k really bothers me, I can rebuild the PSS9 and sell the Feals.

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how many clicks are you riding on the max travels now? And you have the 5k/10k? I�m curious as to how it might feel clicked all the way out to the softest setting. Wondering if even that would be very firm over bumps and potholes

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Can anyone comment on how high the long stroke "Max Travel" kit can go, above stock height?

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No I have the standard Feal setup - 6/12. I'm sitting right around the middle as far as firmness. I may actually soften it up 2-3 clicks.

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Just put a set on and yes will go above stock height on my CS4.

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Thanks! How much, would you say? Maybe a half inch or so?

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Probably more but not sure exactly.

Just received the Feal 441 long stroke coilovers for my 2002 C4S. Went with regular Feal springs and the radial bearings upgrade. They go on the car this week. I received one set of adjustable sway bar end links for the fronts but nothing for the rear. Are rear end links typically included? Also, the front links they sent are around 18-20 cm in length. I see a post that says that the correct size should be 14cm but not sure if that's valid for AWD cars with the long stroke coilovers. Could someone validate?

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You use the old ones.

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You'll like them. I settled on 4 clicks softer than the middle. Rides nice for the height I'm sitting at.

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Got it. Thanks! I�m sure I will. These are replacing what I think are the original struts and springs (disintegrated bump stops and all) so I�m sure it will be a big upgrade. Planning on keeping stock ride height as well.

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I recently installed them on my C4S and I�m a little disappointed. I ordered with 4k/10k springs and I have to put them on full soft to make them softer than my stock shocks. But when they�re on that setting then rebound dampening is not very good. I have them at stock height also. I guess they will have to be revalved to get them better. Even with the soft front springs their initial settings were about the same as stock (way too stiff). Pretty good on smooth freeways but lousy on city streets.

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that's the issue i had. ended up on 3.5kg and 7.9kg springs and after a couple of years I'm now changing to Nitrons road sports with 3kg and 7kg spring

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Let us know how that goes.

Figured this would be a good place to list, I have a set of C4/C4S/turbo's with 7/12k "comfort and performance" springs. The front cartridges have less than 300 miles on them. The rears are a two thousand at most. I converted my car to 2wd hubs etc. --Aaron If you can add to your car then yes they are available: https://www.rennpartbrakes.com/produ...-swift-springs

@RennPart , while we�re on the topic of coilovers: what coilovers are on your hillclimber, and what rates did you select?

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Good price. Will these fit a 2001 996 turbo? Where are you located?

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Yes these will fit your 996 turbo. I am in Winston Salem, NC but shipping is an option on our website. Will be headed to Robbinsville, NC (Tail of the Dragon area) next weekend (May 15-18) if that's closer and you'd rather meet in person. --Aaron

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The springs that came with my Motons are 800lb/950lb. The 7k/10k springs on the Feal's equate to 392lb/672lb. I always use lb's since I guess that's the way I was taught when working on a Porsche Cup team. The spring rate is very important- but to have valving that is designed to work with your selected spring rate is equally important. --Aaron

I get it - I always convert spring rates into pounds to wrap my head around it. Those Motons� rates are super high. How did they perform in the hillclimb? I can�t imagine springing that high outside of track use, but maybe those dampers are a revelation.

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The rates sound high but some run higher. The Motons are older but still relevant- Moton was sold to AST in 2011. The Motons did well on the public street/hillclimb race, just had to soften up compression and rebound 3 clicks due to the bumpy inconsistent surface. I don�t want to take away from the thread, I think Feal offers some double adjustables as well. Being able to adjust rebound and compression individually helps to tune ride quality and handling. super stiff springs do not always equate to a harsh ride- it can be very counter intuitive. �Aaron

That�s very enlightening. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. My apologies to everyone else for derailing the thread.

They have arrived! C2, asked for "road racing" with Swift springs.

Nice! I remember when mine were that shiny. They still can be that shiny it I clean up underneath the car. They've held up well after almost 30K miles. Lots of driving in the rain and on dirt roads, getting dirty from engine oil leaks(oil gets blown all over) lots of road grime, etc. A quick wipe and they look pretty good.

Feal 441 long stroke coilovers are installed, wrapping up my full suspension refresh (all control arms, coilovers, tie rods). The car has completely transformed in how it rides. I have the damping in the middle setting. The ride is firm but supple. Reminds me of my 981 CS w/ PASM when I first got it, but a lot less body roll and diving.

So for the rears I only set ride height and didn't adjust preload of spring. Was i supposed to calculate piston length and then do the math to find droop? I made the assumption they set preload accordingly and my droop came out to 1.25", but just watched a video where he measured piston length and had a slightly higher droop. Also their revised faq says droop should be 1.5-2.25" Do i need to slacken the springs?

Probably, I talked to them recently about preload and they said I can have as little as 0 preload (even negative preload).

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Interesting, the faq thing says not to introduce negative preload. So it should be as easy as loosening the collar till the spring is slack, then retightening until it is firmly planted (if I want to start with 0). Right?

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ok so I just read the listing page for the coil overs, and they say a slight different droop number, " About 1-1.5" drop can be achieved with this kit." So that would put me right in the middle, and I assume they pre-set that.

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you don�t want negative spring pre-load as the spring could become unseated and damaged the damper etc. so if you at a minimum of 0-1mm preload and that�s all the drop your getting that the best you can have. I calculated drop as follows and needed a lot of preload due to the light spring rates I�m running. Front 106mm damper length / 0.8 x 0.35 = 46mm of droop Rear 82mm shock length /0.8 x35 = 35mm.

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nitrons have arrived. 1st impressions are very good. fitting night / tomorrow

Nice keep us posted.

How are we attaching the brake line now that the bracket that was part of the knuckle is no longer there. It looks like Ohlins supplies a little adapter to attached the OE brake line, but FEAL does not. Any DIY solutions?

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Why isn�t the bracket being used? I did on all of the C2 installs I�ve done. I�ve only done 1 C4 and I don�t remember it being much different other than the front axles.

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It's the little blade like bracket that the line slots into. Ohlins provides one that slips on:

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Did you get those installed yet?

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yeah, 600 miles in. Driven from the uk to France for the 24hrs of Leman race. Got them set 20 clicks out from hard. Still a firm ride but handle pot holes etc much better.

That's so awesome, enjoy the race mate!

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Have to move to UK. Rest of Europe is just out the backyard.

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Do you measure droop on all your installs? I'm only able to get 1" and going a little nutty trying to understand why. The wheel/frame gap seems to get much tighter as the car is lowered to the ground, but any which way I measure, or removing preload to 0mm, it only ever shows 1" of droop in the front (1.25-1.3 in rear). I can't figure out why...

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its because the front spring are too high so the weight of the car will not compress the spring enough to get the correct droop. you need a tender/helper spring

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my installer had the same problem. Rear was slammed, front just would not go much lower than stock. He ended up pulling the fronts back off, and not sure what he did, but they were fine the second time he installed. The guys at Feal know the issue, and will tell you what to do if you send them an email asking for a call. Tyler, I think, gave me a call within an hour of emailing.

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i've called a few times, they said Drew was the guy to talk to. He wasn't sure and said to send photos, doing that today.

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Yea maybe it was Drew. That sounds right. And thinking back, mine was actually HIGHER than stock in the front on the initial install. I think Drew told me to have him pull them off, extend them all the way out first, remove preload, and then install. I didn't get a chance to relay to the installer so I guess he figured it out on his own, because he sent me a picture of it sitting right later that same day.

Do the Feal 441s come with drop links? And are they adjustable? I don�t see any drop links on their website.

Quotes source post: 20119996

mine did not.

Another option is Godspeed coil overs. Yeah, its a Porsche, the Olins are $$$Badass, etc. As a DD or non-track car, why not? About 1/3 the $$ and last about as long as Olins or others. Any "Rebuild" is $$$ and just get a new set. Painless and simple, JMO A non-nonsense video: You Tube Maybe not for everyone, but quite realistic and cost conscience. YMMV

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How long ago did you get yours? When I asked their sales they said it comes with the adjustable links� So what drop links did you get? Tarett or ?

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I bought mine 7 months ago. They did not come with links.

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Ok. I just want to be sure if I get a pair of Tarett drop links to replace the current worn out links first, I won�t end up with extra set of links if the Feals come with them anyway�

Mine had them for a C4S in the front, back uses original. Received them 3 months ago and are adjustable.

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Does the quality of the drop links look reasonable? Can you post a pic? What spring rates did you get? Swift? Radial bearings?

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Yes they're fine. I got Swift 4k/10k but rear is too stiff for me so going to 8k. I'm just looking for comfort and adjustability so still pretty stiff. I have to run it on full soft which means not very much rebound dampening getting ready turn the fronts into 442's also they're the long stroke. What I'm learning is coil overs are set up more for racing and canyoning than comfort. I'm trying to turn them more comfortable.

Quotes source post: 20121078

The C4 stock spring rates are 2.6/3.6k, so you�re feeling the jump of 153/270% more in stiffness. My turbo stock was 3.2/6k, and the PSS9 is 4.6/9.2k so the contrast of 44/51% increase wasn�t too bad. The 411 @5/10k would be marginally stiffer. The 411+ @7/12k would be 52/31% stiffer still above the PSS9, and I probably wouldn�t want that. Wife and grandkids wouldn�t appreciate it. For comparison to the GT cars: 996 GT3.1. 3.57/6.6 996 GT3.2. 4/9.7 996 GT3RS 4.6/9.7 997 GT3.1. 4/10.7 997 GT3.2. 5/11.7 Of course all that is ignoring the dampening effect of the respective shock absorbers and sway bars.

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a couple of years ago now. used the stock drop links to start with.

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Wouldn�t the stock links be too long, especially if you lowered car? Probably have to turn sway bar down too?

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Don't for get that a lot of the stock springs are progressive items not liner so its not a straight comparison. 1000% most coil overs are designed for track and very fast road driving not comfort. 4k and 8k is still a very firm ride but for me its a decent compromise between performance and comfort, The 911 is a sports car at the end of the day not a grand tourer or suv so comfort is all way going to be limited. I gave up on the feal 441 + even after going down to 3.5k front and 7.9kg rear it was good but i felt it should be better and i was likely outside of the valving in the damper. The nitron roadsport with the stock top mounts offer much better road compliance.

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Never heard of the Nitron. Are they available in the US? So you returned the Feals or sold them? Btw, I think the modern 911s are grand touring cars, unless they�re the GT models.

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C4S has same suspension as turbo. My current 4k/10k is softer than my stock suspension so have a hard time believing those spring rates. Feels standard rates are 6k/12k so why would they want them that much stiffer than your stock numbers?

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I think Feals are inherently optimized for varying amount of autox or drifting while still �acceptable� on the streets. No stock suspension is acceptable for autox.

Quotes source post: 20121638

those rates are correct but the stock spring are progressive I.e as compression the rate gets higher. Have a google of liner vs progressive springs.

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Yes but front springs on turbos were not progressive.

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that’s why I said most coil overs are more for racing and since most Porsche owners don’t do that why would you go after such a small market. Just looking for more adjustability. Probably should’ve gone for Koni’s like my Boxster S has and it rides great and can out corner most 911s. still going to try and make the Feels work.

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No disagreement there. Very few want to toss their Rolex like 911s around on hot dirty tracks regularly. Most go for coilovers for the slightly dropped look.

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Not for either of those just comfort and adjustability.

The reason why y'all are having issues with ride height is because you are not setting the bump stop first, which requires removing the spring and setting the length of the coilover using the bottom adjuster piece to ensure the tire doesnt hit the fender well The spring perch should be used to adjust the ride height. The video posted before is incorrect.

guys I am planning on ordering the Feal coilovers on Dec 31 before price goes up in new year. I am an PCA instructor but this is not my track car but want it to be competent on track and want it not too harsh on street. was reading maybe 7/12k or 6/12 7/10? what would be a mid point and I could adjust from there? if any one can give some guidance. 02996 turbo with chip and exhaust.

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I had Feal 441 coilovers on my previous 996. I don't want to be dismissive of feedback given by @azlvr or @damo996 , but I had a very different experience with the Feals. They were great both from a handling and comfort perspective for street driving (never took it to the track). I was able to dial in the stance I wanted, lowered to the top of the tire, while being far more compliant than the stock suspension it replaced. The key to achieving this, and where I think that @azlvr went wrong, IMO, is that he stated he had to " run it on full soft ". That will give you a terrible ride, as the springs will be underdamped. I made a whole thread on my experience with the Feals. You really need to be in the high end of the damping range to make them feel right. Once you do, you will see the real benefits. I would say that no less than 20 clicks firm out of the available 30 clicks is necessary. I was at 28 front and 27 rear or something like that and it was as smooth as butter and handled great. When I tried it on anything less than 10-15 clicks firm, it was just terrible. A very trusted forum member here @TheChunkNorris (great guy, BTW) drove my car and he can attest to the way it felt if anyone doubts my single accounting of how it drove. Many experienced drivers/tuners drove my car and remarked on how well it drove while still being smooth and compliant. Here is the thread where I discussed it: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-it-wrong.html to folvrazlvrazlvrazlvrazlvr

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Great tips. Will definitely try the higher range.

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The reason it was to stiff was it was to stiff in other words the wheel didn't move very well in compression stroke. It was valved to stiff, more clicks just made it worse. Still waiting on my Nitrons. Right now I have standard c4 spring (which is softer) on my C4S 60K OEM shocks and definitely rides better ( still pretty stiff) than the FEALS. I want the wheel to move when it goes over bumps not roll over it. More clicks just makes compression dampening worse it may help rebound but that's not the problem.

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This might be more of my experience. In general, the ride is great for how low the car sits and I have my dampners in the mid range (15,16), but as soon as I hit uneven road or the smallest of potholes, it's teeth shattering. Not sure what is realistic to expect with this type of suspension and sitting as low as it does, and not have it bottom out like this. I'm on Swift springs and what I'm assuming is their default spring rate (they were on the car when I bought it, but had just been installed).

I run my ceikas are like 28 from soft to hard (30 being the hardest) At full soft, it was way too soft and would blow through the stroke. BTW..for anyone installing any sort of 2 piece coilovers..make sure you set the bump stop height before you install it!

That�s why it�s different strokes for different folks.

Ok, I think I�m mentally prepared to install the 441s myself. The rates and hours that the Bay Area shops are throwing about is crazy, trying to scare me with extra time for height adjustment, swaybar linkage, etc. Now my question is can I do a corner at a time with floor jack and a pair of good stands lifting one side up, or one end up at a time? Or should all corners be on stands? Do I really need to invest in Quickjack to do it safely and right, like with leveling sway bar and links, or ride height setting? Which online video is best to follow? Thanks for all pointers.

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Yes, you can definitely do it without a QuickJack. I installed mine using a jack and 4 jack stands. Since then I purchased a QuickJack and installed 3 more sets. It is definitely MUCH easier using the QuickJack. That way you can easily test the height and make adjustments and then retest in minutes. But eventually you have to drive it and allow more time for the suspension to settle. I purchased my QuickJack after having my 996 slip off a jack stand when raising the opposite side to again place 4 jack stands to install the UAOS. I recommend QuickJack over jack stands now.

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When I did my suspension I used lift bars. All 4 corners in the air and very stable. They�ve gone up in price, $410. I use them every time I put the 996 in the air for anything. Liftbars.com Once the coils are installed you can put the wheels on the ground or ramps (better) to set your links and sways with no preload.

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Yea that is always my worry that car can slip off a jack when further lifting is done elsewhere. Jack is only solidly in place with weight on it.

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Oh the liftbar is a great compromise for the quickjack, especially when one already has a good floor jack. $400 is better than $1800! Thanks 🙏🏼

Quick jack beside easy to use it goes flat so you can park over it and the safer choice over lift bars and jacks mine is 4 years old and I bought the extended version makes brake mods and wheel swap a breeze they do go on sale often

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I do see some fairly new ones for sale near me.

Which front removal steps do you guys use? The one like the FCP Euro guy where he removes all the control arms too, or just the tie-rod & links then push old coilover under and out of wheel well?

Quotes source post: 20395609

You probably need to pop the tuning fork off the coffin arm and the coffin-to-carrier to pivot the wheel carrier…at least to maneuver the coil up and in.

Quickjack is super nice to have. I have used mine so much over the course of its life on all of my cars that it was well worth the investment.

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I�m sure it is. Thing is I don�t think I�ll do anymore work on cars after this coilover change. Getting too old with arthritis. Not worth to get it just for one job 🤷🏻‍♂️ Where did you get the vented nose from?

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Yeah probably doesn�t make sense to do then. I bought the car like this. Story was the second owner, who had the car for about 12 years, had his Porsche dealer install it. I think it�s this kit. https://www.rennline.com/rennline-gt...0JJTgs3QZ0PgVT

If it's helpful, I recently installed a set of on my car: Feal 441+ | Balance Comfort & Performance | Radial Bearing Upgrade | FABS F&R I also filmed a video documenting the entire installation process, including the tools needed and the torque specifications. I hope this helps! You can find the DIY video for the Feal 441+ coilovers here. You Tube

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I'm curious about how those adjustable bumpstops help. I'm still struggling with the harshness on uneven roads and just going over street reflectors.

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Perfect timing 👌🏼 I watched a bunch of YouTube vids as well, from the FCP Euro guy who took off just about everything to drop the whole shock and hub, to ones that took off the minimal and pushing the shock down and out like you did. But so far your vid and the way you present it is the best for any newbie. 👏🏼 I�ll continue to finish it and maybe watch one more time to see if I have any questions to ask. Still debating on QJ vs liftbars� I thought they also say lifters should be placed on concrete floor direct, not mats. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Quotes source post: 20398993

From my understanding, adjustable bump stops can aid in handling the harshness of the road and avoiding ture to fender misshaps. By adjusting the bump stops, you can make them come into contact sooner, which limits the absorption during compression of the spring. This ensures that when the suspension compresses, the bump stops and the front axle bump stops (FABS) are maxed out at a specific point, preventing the tire from rubbing against the fender. There are two ways to adjust the bump stops: 1. Remove the spring and compress the suspension with the wheel on. Measure the maximum compression you want, then rotate the FABS to match that measurement. This will help prevent tire damage to the fender. 2. Use a trial-and-error approach. Track situations where adjustments are needed to avoid rubbing on corners, and adjust the bump stops as necessary.

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It can be quite intimidating to see the numerous ways to approach this project. I absorbed information from all sources and chose the method that was easiest for me. I appreciate your feedback. Many of us have limited experience with mechanical work but are eager to learn and try things ourselves. Please don't hesitate to reach out to me here or in the comments section of the video. I hope this helps and motivates you to explore more. It's very rewarding! Regarding the direct floor, I haven't noticed any issues using it on my Swiss Trax. I perform a shake test, and it feels very stable. However, I must say that concrete is not as hard on the hands and knees.

Ok, I�ve replaced the front disc rotors and pads with manual tools only. But for this job, looks like it�d be wise for me to invest in some impact drill tools for loosening the big and hard to reach bolts? I notice some videos don�t show removing the 6 axle bolts. Is it because they removed the coffin arm instead, which allows them to drop the whole assembly? Why do you feel removing the axle in the better or easier way to go? It seems wrestling with the shock to clear the fender is a pain in itself. How do you torque the axle bolts back to spec? What tool? Also, what tool do you use to torque with when sockets can�t be used?

Quotes source post: 20399594

I don�t think the impact is really messier, but it did help out. From my understanding there were 2 ways of dropping the front strut to clear the fender with AWD. One was to remove the 32mm hub nut and drop the whole knuckle. But it required 320ftlbs of torque to put back on. So I opted to remove the axel from the diff. MUCH easier and there�s nothing keeping it from getting it re aligned and each bolt is torqued to 29ftlbs. when I torqued it all up I just put my torque wrench onto my attachment and torque it back in a star pattern. Everything that I loosened up I was able to put a socket on for torquing back to spec. With everything I removed or loosened it kept my suspension inline fairly well.

441+ finally installed by San Carlos Auto Solutions, in San Carlos. First test run today to get acquainted. Had PSS9 before this.

Picked up my set of 441+ (set for GT comfort, which may (or may not) be the same as the max travel or long travel mentioned earlier) for my 2000 C4 a while back. Other relevant changes were the addition of aftermarket wheels/tires (Apex ML-10RT 18x8.5" ET44 with 235/40-18 tires). Began the install then noticed my wheel bearings needed to be replaced, so spent some time doing that. So supporting fixes in place I started the install. The rears went in perfect (thanks to not having to remove the axle (to install). I as able to set them up without a problem, pulled the spring, figured out where the bump stop maxed out, made sure I still had about 8mm of clearance at full compression and set the ride height. (I'm considering raising it back up another 10mm, but we'll see once I finish up the fronts. Here is where it got fun. With the c4, I had to do all sorts of maneuvering to get the shock out. Since the axle nut was already off for the bearings this was easy...er than it might have been otherwise. I think the next iteration I'm going to try releasing the axle from the diff, to see if that is easier or harder to deal with. Either way, same process as the rears, pulled the spring off, re-installed, then jacked up the tire to see how it fit (also note I had *not* properly torqued the axle nut down at this point, not sure if that would have made a difference). With the rears, it was almost impossible to hit the body at any "reasonable" drop. The fronts started hitting the tire almost immediately. I played with the shock length until it the tire was 15ish mm away from the fender at full compression. I could have gotten closer, but that struck me as a good "safe" distance for worst case scenarios. At this point I was like, ok this is the lowest the car can go and protect the body work. Put the spring back on, reinstalled and was greeted with a gap that put the grand canyon to shame. (seriously, think 70mm between fender and top of tire) Figured, well, I'll play with it some and re-address once the rest is set up, which leads to the first set of issues. 1) front endlinks... They're adjustable.... but the only real adjustment is "literally as short as you can make them". I'll measure later since I saw another thread mention the the length, but talked with feals support and they mentioned that the should be pretty short. though this seems to take that to extreme though. but whatever, they did fit, just seemed a little off to make them adjustable if you really only have one size. 2) Trying to measure and set the bump and droop as described in their documentation. I couldn't make the math work. To get to 1/3 droop (about 50mm), 2/3 bump. I needed to to get rid of all the pre-load (so way way negative preload). I hadn't considered that as an option before, but once I had tried it I was able to get spot on 1/3. The downside is to get there I'd need a pair of helper springs to keep it tight at full droop. Not a big deal... I had just made the assumption that since it was a vehicle specific kit, I wouldn't need any additional parts for a "vanilla" install. Of course, it could also be something I'm missing. Which of course has me thinking "did I do something wrong?", did I misunderstand something? Seeing some pictures of the other vehicles on here, they all seemed to have a lot of drop without the same contact issues I was facing. Maybe not torquing down the axle nut pushed the tire out further that expected during my measurements.. maybe the wheel/tire package has something to do with the fitment. Maybe I'm being overly paranoid about fender contact at full compression. With the out of the box setup~6(mm of preload), I see about 32 mm of droop, leaving a good bit of bump travel. Maybe that's ok, its just that i see a lot of thirds and even 50/50 a lot. Right now thinking about helper springs and their adjustable bump stop, largely because getting the coil over on and off is such a pain in the *** (for the fronts). Having those there for adjustment once on would save me a lot of headaches. As far as the fit and finish on the hardware itself? it seems top notch. I just wish the fronts were as straight forward as the rear. (also, a sanity check, or other thoughts would be appreciated)

What ride height are you aiming for from ground to fender lip? Mine is currently just a hair under 25�. The front is a royal pain. What we learned is the default spring for 996 AWD/turbo is too long, leaving not enough thread space left on the body for proper droop. Shorter spring would help. Then there are alignment challenges afterward.

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I'm hoping you mean 2.5" When I was playing with the droop, I think I had a little more than an inch of threads left. I thought I had a solid understanding of how that works (was supposed to work), but the fronts are hurting my brain

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What are your initial thoughts compared to the Bilstein? I just ordered a set of PSS10s for my C4S.

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Initial feeling is it rides a better than the Bilstein on various highway surfaces. It soaks up lane deflectors gently and quietly. It also handle the sudden drops in highway sections quickly and maintain composure. It�s not as stiff or flat on highway on ramp bends but the rear is also on full soft right now. The 441+ makes the car feel like a great GT car for long rides. Which is surprising to me because of how others say the default 7/12k spring rates are too stiff. The Bilstein feels stiffer almost, less forgiving. On backroads with undulations, the car feel more jouncy than before. But I haven�t dialed in the compression yet. The back is full soft now, and the front is only 7 clicks in according to installer. I�ll be trying the adjustments with small increments today to see if they�re more noticeable to small changes than the Bilsteins. Around town, it soaks up railroad tracks no problem. Rough pavement and small pot holes are about the same with Bilsteins, noise and thunk wise. Will be doing more spirited driving in the mountains as I gain confidence with setup and report back.

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Thanks. I�m looking for more of a GT car experience and would�ve just replaced my OEM suspension but cost for B4s and springs is pretty much the cost of Feals/PSS10s, so I went with coilovers. Hoping the PSS10s aren�t too stiff.

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Coming from stock B4s, it will be stiff to you. Takes some time to get used to the extra road feel and noise. But any performance oriented mod away from factory setting for a gentleman car will do that 😏 Coilovers aren�t cheap and installation labor especially aren�t cheap these days also, unless you do it all yourself. So very few of us would have the luxury of trying out different coilovers back to back for comparison, unless you�re a racer who has to constantly rebuild or replace anyway. I spent almost 20 years on the PSS9, so I can attest to their durability for GT and daily use 👍🏼 Too bad they don�t honor their lifetime warranty or do rebuilds anymore.

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They will be my first set of coilovers on any car I�ve ever owned, so excited to experiment with them. Luckily I do all my own work on my cars, so if I hate them I�ll pull them off and go back to OE replacement suspension. Wheels are off for refinishing, LN water pump/thermostat kit just came in, and pulling all the panels/front bumper to pressurize/inspect cooling system before flushing and doing the water pump job. PSS10s should hopefully be here in 3-4 weeks!

I had to use helper springs on my CEIKAS after I set the bump stop properly. It didn't come with directions like the FEALS do apparently, but to get the appropriate ride height to work with the bump stop set (meaning the tire would no longer touch the fender liner) I had to use helper springs. Im running 25.5 inches in the front (ground to center of fender) on a 996TT.

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That�s super. If I have the QJ I�d be tempted to do it too. But my arthritis will get in the way 🥺

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Interesting to hear you specifically refer to lane deflectors, as this is my biggest issue with my 441+. Rebound is great and takes dips just fine, but street imperfections, lane deflectors, or even the smallest potholes will make your brain rattle and break teeth. Droop is within spec so not sure what else to do besides try softer springs (I'm on the standard rates).

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Standard rates as in 7/12k right? Yeah, I expected deflectors to be bad too based on some testimonies. I came from PSS9 so maybe it�s relative. But it�s definitely not teeth clattering bad. Or may be the deflectors where you�re at are like right angle casings 😆 What did you have before this? Factory B4? I�ll get the specifics from my installer, including alignment numbers.

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Also, bad wheel alignments can cause wheels to go over sharp bumps like deflectors harshly. My installer spent a lot of time to get the alignment just right for street, highway use. Comfort is my priority before spirited driving.

One thing I hate about the PSS9 is the adjustment ****. It is too small to get a good grib on, the detents are too close together and vague, and the bottom of front coilover **** placement is a PITA. Must get hands and sleeves dirty to adjust. 😠 The FEAL **** is better in that it�s bigger, but the detents are too far apart, and the feel is sometimes vague or just skimmed over like the PSS9. The worst thing is one of my front **** is free spinning. Tightening the set screw doesn�t seem to hold it in place on the shaft/bolt neck. Because of the camber setting, the part of the **** is bumping against the strut tower opening. So it�s a different kind of a PITA. 🤨 Anyone else have a loose **** problem?

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What a bummer. The loose adjustment dial was caused by several things. One is the set screw that holds the dial in place to the scored bolt head is loose. But even after tightening the set screw, the disk continues to turn clockwise without stopping. Turning counterclockwise continuously will eventually loosen the bolt and hex nut. Looks like detent feel is created between the bolt and the hex nut screw, but a tiny pin is probably missing. Hope they can send me a replacement bolt-nut assembly to fix it without needing a whole new coilover. There is a hex head deep inside the shaft, but turning that has no detent so can�t adjust that way.

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Yup, 7/12. I bought the car with them installed, although I've been in a friend's 996 with B4s and it's much softer.

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I started with 4/10 then went to 3/7 and still too stiff.

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Damn, I didn't realize they had springs available with that low of rates. Did you end up swapping them out?

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3k/4k I got from Eibach. Yes sold them and waiting on special Nitrons now. Running standard C4 springs which are softer than my standard C4S setup. They feel better. 7K on rear felt pretty good just think fronts a are valved too stiff. Wish I needed to stiffen the clickers but never happened.

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This was also my findings. Nitrons road sprot with stock top mounts are much better, the rubber top mounts helps take some of the harshness out. I'm running 3k front and 7k rear using 250mm long eibach springs. Nitron made an error on my build suppling 180mm springs with a tender and so car was too low really at lower that gt3rs hight on the front. Much better now.

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Was just notified by Nitron that they are having problems getting the springs. They are offering me R1's at no charge. But that doesn't doesn't use stock top mount. What diameter is your springs? They are supposed to be making them like yours even the same engineer.

For a road car I would really want the stock top mounts. its made a decent difference and also reduced road noise transfer into the cabin. Spring ID is 60mm. Spring should be a minimum of 200m long front and rear. Because of the mess up with mine I ended up buying springs from Demon Tweeks. I based my setup an a mk1 GT3 as after going for a passenger ride in one it felt firm enough to be able to really push on but still have enough compliance to be comfortable. I found on the gt3 spring was 260mm in length and to take out some of the understeer ordered the below. For Reference mk1 996 GT3 FRONT: PART NUMBER: 996 343 531 91, SPRING RATE: 35N/mm REAR: PART NUMBER: 996 333 531 91 SPRING RATE: 65N/mm

I have some 996.1 GT3 springs laying around. They are used but available.

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I have heard endless great things about the Nitrons, but it's a pretty big investment. I might try some softer springs with my current setup a shot, so going to reach out to Feal and see what they can do for me.

I ran softer springs of my 441+ started at 5-10 and ended up with faulkners race springs 200lb front (3.57kg and 450lb rear (8kg) was much much better but i dont think the front dampers matched the spring very well and as im in the uk the change to a custom nitron set was very easy. over sending my feals back to get the valving changed

I�m getting really annoying clunking noise from passenger front 441+ when going over rough or broken roads. Anyone having similar experience? There�s no more preload to play with. Does it need helper spring? Have the standard 7k/12k performance-comfort setup.

I've never run into a rattle from the Feal coilovers. The only time I had a rattle on a 996 was due to someone leaving a tool behind.(caliper hanger) Pulling the wheel to re-check torque on bolts after the test drive found the hanger which was banging against the spring. You might reach out to Feal and see if they have ever had another installer run into similar issues. Most issues I've heard about have been install-induced mainly because most techs don't typically deal with coilovers. They're different enough from struts/shocks to cause confusion. Also taking a photo of the installed coilovers and sending them to someone experienced can be a good idea. Bruce

Similarly, I've been having the same issues on my OEM GT3 coilovers on my 996 C2 with Tarett top mounts. I changed the top mount thrust bearing, added needle bearings to stop spring binding, and helper springs and it is still happening to me. I also changed, coffin arms, sway bar links, and tuning forks.... I cannot find play unsprung when jacked and am wondering if it is spring slap? It sounds quite loud on the interior.. Ben

Ben, it sounds quite loud from inside for me too, to a point that I think something is going to get damaged. Bizarre. Don�t really want to drive car anywhere far again until it�s sorted.

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Problem solved. Raising the car back to 25.5� F, 25.25� R eliminated the noise. Installer also found a control arm bolt that can use some tightening. I have it dialed from full soft to 8 in front, 12 in rear now. Car rides very well over all placements, freeway reflectors, potholes, speed bumps, railroad crossings to bad mountain roads. It dives into tight corners and exits confidently. Very communicative. Makes car a lot of fun to drive.

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Interesting to hear that you're happy with the ride at those settings. My ride was teeth shattering over road reflectors and potholes and happened to come across another post that said that increasing dampening helped with this. So i went from 15f16r to 21f/23r and it made a significant difference with rice quality.

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I will try higher dampening settings today and see what happens. Do you have stock 18� wheels or 19�? And do you have a more aggressive alignment?

Ok, tried 18F, 20R. Still able to absorb most highway reflectors, rough pavements okay, car is more focused, perhaps a little too focused. Makes the ride less at ease, and NVH increased. Dialing the rear couple clicks softer so front and rear are at 18 strikes a good balance between comfort and control. I�ll live with this for a while. Overall, quite happy with the overall feel, definitely more sporting than the PSS9, but overall noise has gone up to a point it�s no longer pleasurable for long drives. Before noise was acceptable even in 6th cruising at a lazy ~2300 rpm. Now have to pop back in to 5th to raise the pitch higher.

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Do the Feals come with top mounts? Do you think is part of the noise and can you swap them? I ordered PSS10s but also ordered stock mounts in hopes to cut down on NVH.

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I'm on 18s and definitely on the more aggressive side with my alignment

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yes come with top mounts. It could be why. I should�ve kept the stock mounts when I sold the PSS9s.

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That would increase ride harshness for sure. It seems harshness and shorter tire life is the price to pay for better cornering.

After couple weeks running 18F/20R on streets (with a toddler in back), highways, and on imperfect mountain twisties with a 992 GTS trailing closely, I decided the 18F/20R setup is a bit high strung to be comfortable all around, not what I�d call a set and forget compromise. So I dialed the front back to 15 and the front has less of a micro bump feel on the highway right away. For a while there I thought the front wheels needs balancing again, or tire got flat, or steering rack is loose. That�s what it felt like at 18F. On a track or autoX parking lot it�ll be okay. The rear is still at 20, which makes steering feels lighter, more responsive, a good thing. However, even my 2.5 year old toddler said car is bumpy unprompted. So I�m going to relax the rear by 2-3 clicks, and maybe settling at 15/18 or 14/17 will work for 90% needs. I am accepting the 441+ will never be as comfortable as the PSS9 all around for anyone other than the driver. But for the wallet and a more sporting feel for the driver, it�s hard to beat.

With your springs and your settings it would kill me.

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Haha. You need to do squats and planks

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Useless information.

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As are both your posts, so why even bother?

I will be replacing my stock suspension soon and I'm still debating OEM B4s (stock springs), B8's with HR or Eibach lowering spring or Feal 441s. My use case is that I'll eventually drive my car cross country (GA to CA and back the long way), so I'm hesitating to go coilovers as I don't want to sacrifice long drive comfort for performance. Right now, I'm leaning B8's with lowering springs.

B8�s with lowering springs is pretty stiff, and verging on harsh depending on road conditions. If you want to go lower than stock I highly recommend one of the many coil-over variants that are available! Good luck

After waiting 6 weeks, I�ve been told at least another 8 weeks before the PSS10s show up. Got sick of waiting and cancelled that order. Ordered all the parts for OEM replacement just to find out the rear B4s are on backorder with no ETA as well. Decided to go this route from Carnewal. Gert was very helpful in the process and I think this is a perfect solution for what I desire. Row springs are 3-4 week backorder right now but I�m optimistic about it. http://www.carnewal.com/products/996...i-Sport-shocks

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I would be interested in what you thought of it after you install and let it settle.

For what it's worth, Dec through April 1 are the worst months to buy suspension parts, it's when all the racers are getting ready for the season. Especially kits for actual track cars.. Used to do suspension at a small track support shop.. Always tried to have my known orders for stock and projects in my August ...

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Just received my Nitrons that I ordered in middle of October but did order them before price increase and owner gave me upgraded system for free that was $1000+ for my wait. 3k/7k springs. Rear are pretty good but fronts are still a little stiff so may look into revalve. It’s been a year long journey.

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OEM for Xcountry is your best bet. You want maximum comfort with a loaded car to soak up all kinds of asphalt and concrete grooves & joints. Then there are the unexpected steep driveways depending on where you go or stay. Noise is also part of the comfort in an endurance ride. Any stiffer suspension will increase cabin noise. I�ve done 8 hour drives with the PSS9. PSS10 would be the same. It�s firm but quite okay for the most part. Don�t feel too worn out on arrival. I can�t see my self doing the same with the 441 now since I also got older. I say if your stock isn�t leaking or damaged, just get the Xcountry over with using them, then put on some coilovers to get the look and sportier feel for local fun.

Is that using the stock top mounts or the Nitron ones.

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I ordered the Roadsport like yours but they were having a problem getting the springs so the owner offered me the R1 kit for the same price. The top mounts aren�t too bad but incredible quality. Still a little stiff up front so I may end up sending fronts Inertia Labs to take a little compression valving out. They are a piece of art.

Oops

yeah its a great bit of kit. The stock top mounts rubber help takes out a little of the harshness.

It�s been almost half a year now since getting the 441+ installed. First I want to clarify on the rattling noise that I was getting. It�s not from the FEALs or any suspension components. Instead it was caused by an air condenser fan that was flopping around due to a broken shaft. So after replacing the fan and two new AC condensers, the noise is gone and AC is cold again. Wrt the FEAL settings, I�ve tried every two clicks increments from 10-20 on both front and rear. Good news is the 1-2 clicks do make more notable difference than the PSS-9 did in terms of squat on acceleration, turn-in sharpness, porpoising, and varying degree of comfort over small rough surfaces, lane deflectors, bigger dips/cracks and railroad crossings. The not so good news the ride is always in the more nervous side than the PSS9. The FEAL just transmit more of the road surface into the car in the 10-20 clicks range, which I think is the sweet spot in terms of tradeoffs. Sometimes I just want the car to feel as comfortable as possible when I�m just driving around at a leisurely pace, transporting people, grabbing a bite, or doing errands. Even at 8-10 clicks it�s still too jiggly and sharp over imperfect roads. Anyway, I decided to just dial it all down to 0/1 and see. Wow, I can say it is much more comfy to tool around town this way. It soaks up the road and speed bumps so nicely, better than PSS9 full soft. I wish there�s a quicker way to switch between full soft and another preferred setting for spirited drives. Maybe full soft plus 2 settings will be enough.

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Tein makes an auto adjuster, not sure how it'd work with these coils though. Im sure there are other electronic controllers out there as well Have you tried going to 25+ on the clickers? What tread wear are your tires on? I am running ceikas on my TT (valved for comfort) and have noticed that when the tires get to about 5/32 treadwear the ride quality decreases alot.

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Wear is just a hair under 7/32. Will try ~25 range next, after I do another mountain run on a deteriorated stretch to see how bad is 0 click really.

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I'd be scared to run my setup that low. I was previously running 10/12 and the ride was teeth shattering anytime I hit the slightest pothole. I'm at 21/23 now and it's significantly better.

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I meant to post this or elude more about how the stiffer compression should actually 'soften' the ride in the sense that it will stop the shock from blowing through the stroke.. I noticed that when I increase the compression (my ceikas are one ways) it does seem to handle chop better but on big divots/bumps the car will move with it and not really absorb it..but it still feels 'soft' in the sense i cant feel it bottoming out like when i run softer settings.

Well, tried both 0F/0R and 25F/25R tonight after dark on a mountain ridge run with plenty of tight turns, rough choppy pavement with some sudden tree root bumps and dips. The 0/0 is definitely more comfortable with high compliance. Make the car feel like a Dakar car. It does feel a little sloppy after falling into an expansion dip at high speed. However it still corners nicely with quick transitions. The 25/25 feels more planted when the surface is relatively level even if the surface is broken up with many small cracks. But whenever there�s a sudden dip or sharp bump at speed, it can be quite a jolt and feel like the car can hop and side step a bit. So more caution is needed to go fast at this setting than with 0/0. Back on smooth top on the highway, 25/25 feels nice and tight.

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This is what ive experienced as well, but the hopping/side stepping is worse on the soft settings. Im running 22F/22R on my ceikas now, will try running 25f and 23r this week and 28 F and 25 r as well as I feel this may help settle it a bit over bumps. Ive tried this on lower settings and it did seem to be more planted. The stiffer settings seem to absorb small to medium chop (potholes and other bumps) alot better but the big stuff and some higher speed bumps can unsettle the car a bit. Im also running alot of rear camber so once I fix that, im hoping it will make it smoother.