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Last I checked no testing data is offered on the X51 upgrade.
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Suggestion
My assumption is it would be pretty easy to change the baffle out at the track.
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I was under the impression that the X51 baffle simply bolts on to the oil pan to replace the standard baffle.
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In regards to testing...well that gets a little difficult when you would need to find people willing to test there cars engines with the stock baffle, x51 and x51 v2.
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i'm no engineer, but i would assume a lot of testing/data gathering needs to happen for a part to get the greenlight in stuttgart.
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In regards to testing...well that gets a little difficult when you would need to find people willing to test there cars engines with the stock baffle, x51 and x51 v2.
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You should talk to the guys who manufacture these now and see if they would be willing to do some instrument testing by datalogging the oil pressure on a road course with DOT R's or slicks.
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In regards to testing...well that gets a little difficult when you would need to find people willing to test there cars engines with the stock baffle, x51 and x51 v2.
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Production is complete and the baffles are 100% ready to go. I am REALLY happy with the quality of the work they did on my concept.
Photos
Details:
1. Custom metal baffle doors (aircraft riveted to baffles)
2. CNC cut stainless panels and frames
3. Teflon "gaskets" around edges to help seal baffles area to pan/block
4. Bolts directly to any stock 996 3.4L & 3.6L oil pan
5. Dimensions are similar to X51 oil baffles
6. Pricing will be around $200'ish
7. Integrated doors/hinges
For ordering this baffle or if you have any questions on the component, please contact J3 Motorsport individually as I do not have any affiliation with them.
J3 Motorsport, Inc.
4991 B.U. Bowman Dr., Suite 100
Buford, GA 30518
Phone: [phone removed]
Fax: [phone removed]
Ask for David and mention Rennlist
Hey Chad,
Maybe there is a disconnect. You say the price will be comparable to the stock plastic baffle. That would be around $30-40. Yet when I spoke with Dave at J3 last week he quoted me $200 ish.
Do you know which is it?
Thanks for you efforts btw.
confuses (baffles) the oil, of course!
more seriously, I believe the intent is to help prevent oil starvation under heavy cornering. This would be targeted at people who track their cars, as you are unlikely to get to oil starvation driving on street tires on public streets, or if you do, I hope I'm nowhere near you...
All props to the tinkerers. If it wasn't for the guys with the guts to experiment with their cars, where would motorsport be? This isn't on my list, but I respect that you did it. Bench-racing, like most talk, is cheap.
It's cheaper and will hold up better over time vs. the rubber flaps inside.
If you need further info, please contact J3. They made some additional changes to the flaps and inlets as well.
C.
it's cheaper than the full X51 pan. You can buy the X51 baffles separetly but you still have to figure out how to attach them as it's not a direct bolt-in like the X51 pan itself.
So it's a cheaper solution than the whole X51 pan and basically just as easy to install. The baffles by themselves would still be cheaper but you have to modify the existing pan to get them installed.
Andy
I just got 2 x51 full oil pans and baffle from Sunset for $190 a piece.
Andy...did you find a way to just buy the x51 metal baffles? I tried a bunch of ways and kept getting stock black plastic baffles and gave up and just ordered the whole thing.
Yes...it is currently in my engine...working flawlessly. I will be upgrading mine to the final one you see in the thread.
And BTW - this piece is better than the factory piece and is based off from the X51 factory baffles. Just simply improved upon.
For those thinking the factory is the "all knowing" powers...really need to learn what goes into mass production. If these cars were manufactured to the "nth degree", everything would be hand made out of the most durable and robust exotic materials. As a consequence the cars would then be priced like a Veyron or more. Since this is not the case, engineers are required to cut corners where they can to make a more marketable product.
Each to their own. I simply improved upon an existing component.
Take it as you will. If you are not mechanically inclined, or do not wish to put your car on the track...then this is not for you. Simple as that...
Many thanks to all that "get it." Making stuff like this happen takes effort.
C.
Basically this is X51 v2
In regards to testing...well that gets a little difficult when you would need to find people willing to test there cars engines with the stock baffle, x51 and x51 v2. Then you would need to have people looking for specific results to see what the differences are. The only way I can think of doing this without invloving peoples cars, is to build a mock-up of an engine with a clear bottom piece, put it on a stand that moves in all directions (as if it was in a car on the track), and watch the oil move around and also monitor oil pressures etc. Good luck on that.
So I agree with Chad in that if you are not a track person then this is not for you. If you are a track person, then it's either v1 or v2 of the x51, you decide.
so how do you know it's working flawlessly when there was never a flaw in the first place in chad's car?
let's say a little bolt comes loose or something just goes wrong with the part.... i don't even wanna go there. i'm no engineer, but i would assume a lot of testing/data gathering needs to happen for a part to get the greenlight in stuttgart.
this dude's got a lot of ***** or no sense to be pushing this thing to anyone but himself, imho. it's just got potential to become something very bad very fast even if there were "good" intentions behind building it.
I certainly don't think that Porsche engineers are "all knowing." I'm not sure why you would assume that. And nobody doesn't "get it."
I'll be putting the factory X51 pan this summer because up in the canyon runs that I do, I've pulled hard g's and have seen smoke from startup as well even in my 3.6L. It's not just being a "track guy," a wanna-be Hakkinen, or being "mechanically inclined."
Realistically speaking, has there been documented instances out there regarding oil starvation at the track and/or prevention of such simply from a baffle change? (Just trying to be the devil's advocate here).
Like Speed Demon said... for those who will end up needing an upgraded oil pan, it's either the X51 version, which includes the oil pan AND the baffles... ($200 for both) or this version, which is just the baffle ($200 baffle only).
STILL the x51 route seems cheaper. If you're pulling enough g's to warrant an upgraded oil pan than the factory x51, then maybe you'd need a dry-sump engine instead.
Chad, new posting to this site... not new to designing parts at a grassroots level like yourself. Great work here!
You should talk to the guys who manufacture these now and see if they would be willing to do some instrument testing by datalogging the oil pressure on a road course with DOT R's or slicks. My assumption is it would be pretty easy to change the baffle out at the track. If effective, it would really ease folks concerns and be a pretty easy experiment to show before and after.
On edit, see Chad duplicated the X51 baffles, eliminating any need for flow analysis of the windows.
Have folks looked at using an accusump in addition to something like this to prevent any chance of oil starvation?(if theres room for one)
David
Food for thought
I have been noticing, on my track videos, with my
02 C4 with x51 pan addition to stock non X51 motor w/ PSS9, sway's and Hoosier R6
As the turn progresses in the videos the rpm will stay constant but the oil will start at 5 and drop to 2.5 to 3 then bounce back up to 5 on exit of turn: average low seems to be 3 in videos
The more G's (personal feel in the seat, not metered) the lower the oil #
The shorter or longer the turn is, this is proportional to the time at the low point on the oil gage
Jerry
Guys...guys, guys...
Some of you are obviously "not" getting it.
What has been made is
a duplicate of the X51 baffling.
The same dimensions, same teflon seals and the same flow characteristics as the X51. The only...(and I really do mean ONLY) difference are the metal flaps. THAT IS IT. This was discussed on ALL levels about the benefits vs the detractors. The bene's are simple. Longevity and piece of mind on the track. Not to mention, the X51 pan is really not needed. Even as Paul said, the X51 baffles will simply bolt on to your existing pan. Porsche simply does not sell the baffles. So...why not make a more robust X51 baffle kit that has metal doors? And...make it cheaper to purchase? Sounds like a winner in my book...
Do I need to test it? No... Why? It is the X51 baffle. Period. Factory tested and obviously approved.
Why metal doors? Simple. Metal lasts longer in the harsh high temp conditions in the pan than that of the rubber doors. (Proven fact, rubber breaks down over time in a hot and cold environment)
How do we know this? Numerous Motorsports team technicians back this up and advise on this modification for track duty on both 3.4L and 3.6L motors.
Is the horse now beaten?....yes...yes he is.
C.
Side note on the 3.4L motors:
The oiling starvation issue on the 3.4L motors IS documented by Porsche Motorsports. The X51 and the Motorsports versions of the 2 stage oiling scavenge pump and return line is simply the best thing you can do the motor. No more oil pressure drops, no more worry. Done.
This has been done on my car.
Now what about the 3.6L? Porsche has improved the oil flow characteristics on the heads of these motors. An oiling kit is not available (AFAIK), however...if someone finds one, please inform the masses as I am sure some out there would like to have this installed.
I offer my knowledge and advice as a track enthusiast to another. I am a guy who has fabricated parts and components in the past and I am not afraid of testing them. Besides...it's a car. If it goes Ka-put, I fix it.
And.....I'm spent.
C.
Having read most of your other posts on various topics, I am not the least bit surprised by your contrarian view. ***** and sense have nothing to do with this matter.
If you don't like what is being offered simply don't buy it. I don't see Chad "pushing" anything, merely providing an option. In my opinion the guy has opened himself up to criticism and possibly ridicule on a site he frequents. What's his motivation?
"Becoming something very bad very fast" is ludicrous. This is a hobby. There's people dying out there. Perspective my friend.... perspective.
and i won't buy it and i'll continue to post my thoughts since this very forum is about typing out, sharing thoughts on the subject matter. and yes, of course perspective... i'm all about it, what about u? this thread isn't talking about solving world hunger and getting rid of malaria.
to date, no testing data has been offered as to th durability, reliability, efficacy of this part. are you guys seeing the emperor naked or with clothes on?
Deep.....Cleansing.......Breathes. Yes......Feel the anger leave your body.
Good.
Last I checked no testing data is offered on the X51 upgrade. Anecdotal data you say? Heresay, I say. Porsche is very closed lipped about the need or effect of this upgrade. The only difference is you might think that you could get your money back from Porsche if the pan didn't work as advertised. Call me if you can accomplish that and I will post my ultimate praise to you on this very site.
Peace, B. choi.......peace my brother. <exhale>
I have an 02 996 with the 3.6l engine, and am considering track use. Questions I would love to have answered are:
1. Does the 3.6 litre engine have extra oil scavenge pump(s) in the head?
2. Is the X51 upgrade from Porsche just the baffle kit, or are there other modifications to the engine that work in concert with the baffles.
3. If one just upgrades the baffle (either Porsche or Chad's version) in a 3.6l engine, are there other mods that should be done as well to minimise the chance of oil surge, or will the baffle be sufficient?
Thanks Chad for an interesting thread and topic.
