Just Test Drove New 997 - No Biggie

Amigo�s I just got back from a lengthy test drive (30) - I friend of mine at the dealership allowed me to take out the 997 (base) for a nice run on the highway (alone) and local driving - Here are my thoughts regarding the new platform. Interior is nice, but not that dramatic versus the 996 in black Steering is the same Ride quality is same Seats a bit more comfortable Brakes felt a bit sharper Engine felt no different; actually I like the exhaust note from my Targa better Looks are relative; I like the look of my Targa better (especially with the new wheels) Would I make the change - NO! I will test drive the S next week and advise, do get me wrong the 997 is a great car, it just not that great over my 03 996, maybe the S will be better we shall see.

To each his own. But be careful of the value of your current 996. I think they are going to tank. So... maybe you better like that S.

I agree it's all relative, I was just sharing my opinion - nothing more - as for my 996 and value, it is of no concern, I lease it and don't plan on changing any time soon - I most likely will go with the 997 S in 06 when my lease is up. I just didn't feel the new 997 was that speical over my 996 Targa, again in my eyes.

mnmblu, you seem to be implying that it'll be cheaper for somebody to dump a 996 and go 997s, which is nuts. the "car you own" is almost always cheaper than buying a new car. yes, the 996 may depreciate further over the next couple years, but anybody who owns one now has already ridden the steepest part of the curve. as you'll note, even the vaunted 993s depreciate, so it's really unlikely that the 997 is going to be somehow immune to depreciation. I remember seriously considering a 993 in '99 for about $60k. It'd be worth about 30-35k today. not directed at anyone in particular, but it really cracks me up to see the 993 crowd fawning over the 997. New Porsches (with teh exception of the C GT) are never going to approach the level of hand-built craftsmanship that went into the earlier 911s, and the 997 is no exception. Porsche marketing has worked some genious here, I must admit. Put some round headlights on it, move the window switches back to the door (where they are a pain in the *** to reach), and the old guard will finally come running back into the fold.

RJMDAD996: I didn't test drive the 997. I will be really interested to hear your comments on the 997S. But be careful, the S might grab you a lot more than the standard 997!

stiles you must be talking about a 95-96 with close to 100k on the clock for 30K. Most low mile 993s are still in the 45K-60K range for 96,97,98's for cars with less than 50K miles. as a matter of fact if you look on autotrader right now in the socal area there are 129 996's for less than 45K, and 105 993's for less than 45K.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...488398801&rd=1 Here's a 97 with less than 44K miles - asking is $35K. I picked this one - there are plenty to choose from. Totally agree on the marketing angle - I like the 997 as much as the next guy - but how do round headlights makes a 997 more like a 993 than a 996? It defies logic to me.

Oldguy, let me save you some time here: - 993s will never depreciate any more (just like they said in 1999). In fact, they will appreciate. - 996s are going to depreciate to zero, or the price of a 1990 toyota tercel, whichever is lower - 997s are going to hold their value better than 996s, because they have round headlights, a nicer dash, and a clock on the dash. How's that? Hope it helps you keep feeling smug. Back to enjoying my 996...

Can I get the Tercel with Leather and a 6 speed?

If the 997 is so much more appealing to the 993 fanatics who loathe the 996 more than they loathe Yugos, then wouldnt that mean that it's the 993 that will take a beating when the 997 is in full swing? I mean the 997 is "what the 996 should have been", right? So wouldnt it stand to reason that a good number of the 993 owners/zealots/fanatics will now go ahead and move to the 997, thereby dumping a bunch of 993s on the market and normalizing prices? Of course some folks will hang onto their 993s forever which is awesome, just as some people will keep their 996s forever, but I'm speaking in general terms about the folks who WANT to move to a new car. Seems like more 993 guys who have WANTED a new car will be moving to the 997 than 996 guys (who already have a pretty modern car and can probably wait for the 998). Kind of funny, by the way, that the 997 is still water cooled yet the 993 guys love it.

Stiles i am not trying to be smug but if you want a nice 993 you aint gonna get it for 35k Period. Just pointing out the truth. Now if you like driving run down cars then yes you can get a 993, 996 whatever for 35K. its up to you. I was just pointing out that those cars nice ones are not in that range. I dont loathe 996's either I just dont like the idea of RMS problems or the fact the motor does not have a dry sump. Its not a good design for my driving habits. The other thing i dont like is for the TT Porsche made more in 2001 than the whole run of 993 TT's. The 993 guys dont all love the 997 either its still a wet sump and alot of the 993 guys like to drive it the way its meant to be driven. now you guys can return to being overly sensitive. (BTW I would love GT3)

its a matter of supply and demand fellas!!! There are a lot fewer 993s than 996s. But if you look at the numbers there were not that many 996s produced relative to other cars. These two cars are very different from each other, hence two distinct used markets. I wouldn't want to drive a 993 as a daily driver but I would drive the 996 to work every day. Those people looking to purchase a 911 will decide which is better for them in the end and will pay accordingly. As the years go by, fewer 996s will be on the road making them harder to come by so the prices will stabilize. BTW, if the 993 guys love the 997 just for the headlights then they've been bitching and moaning for nothing for the past 5 years!!! Bobby

This argument kills me! Read the article in last months Purely Porsche GT...It compares the 993 to 996..996 wins out in everyway except for the "soul" of a Porsche. 996 was the editors choice for everything from daily driver to going fast and smooth along bumpy roads.. The 996 is a better car than the 993 period. How many people drive on the track and need a dry sump anyway?I have not puled many g's in sprited mountain driving lately.... If Porsche had sold as many 993's as 996's the values of 993's would be in the tank! Remember that as the old timers fade out and the new younger buyers move in, the 993's will fade into a distant memory along with this debate! Robert

Hey you know what this is your forum. you guys are Rennlisters just like me, I have a difference of opinion. Stiles made an incorrect value judgement on the 993 and I called him on it. I will leave it at that. You guys enjoy your Porsches. But you still cant get a nice 993 for 35K. Robert you are right you 996 guys dont track much, just into cush! We do however.

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I think bucket_hat_loren picked a good example of a 993 for sale right now (late model one at that) with reasonable miles at $35k. They do exist and like all non-exotics will continue to depreciate.

OG, I'll cede on the values -- you've probably been paying better attention than I have. I've seen a few specific data points, but can't comment on the overall market. My key point was that people were telling me that the 993 wouldn't go below 60k (basic c2, 96) back in 1999. It did. Nearly everything depreciates. The good news for *everybody* here is that even the 996 was highly rated for resale compared to other premium sports cars. Oh, and OG, love your car

But you still cant get a nice 993 for 35K The one on eBay looks nice. Driven just over 6k miles per year. I think there are plenty of nice NA 993 coupes in the $35k range. 993 Turbos that stickered for $125k can now be had for appx. $65k. Depreciation affects all mass production cars.

Old Guy, It is sad but tracks are hard to come by down here in So. Calif. With 2 Kids and one due in 3 weeks, it is impossible for me to go for 2 or 3 days to No. Calif and track etc....I wish there were more facilities nereby to track.. 993's are great cars and nice ones are no where to be found for 35k, you are right! It is fun to trash talk eachother though!!! Happy driving! Robert

Surf, I like your response.....LOL!!! R

stop arguing, 993, 996, 997 are all nice machines. old guy, i track the crap out of my 996, 450 miles at TH last weekend you really have to drive really really hard to have oiling prob in 996. don't worry, just drive until it blows up when my blows up, i will get 997.

John, can I have your Motons and roll bar when you change track toys?

Why did a simple enough personal account of driving the 997 turn into the same old resale value debate? Back to the drive report -- and thanks for sharing -- I'm anxiously awaiting mine and keen to hear all accounts. Personally, I find it (haven driven only the 997S and only for a bit over an hour to do some location photos) remarkably quiet (in terms of NVH) but also remarkably quiet (in terms of a thin, shrill exhaust note) so I'm surprised to hear a 996 Targa driver not remark on the cabin sound levels. In terms of plastics and cabin noise, the 997 is a significant refinement of the 996/986 design. I still wish the doors closed with the classic "vault" sturdy sound of the 964/993. Steering feel and response is remarkably different and, to my touch, the 997 is a better car to drive on tight turns where the non-linear feel is most ronounced below 40mph bopping around tight turns. I really like the steering at first blush, but I can't put my finger on why the car is so spritely and seemingly lighter than it is on spec. Torque and throttle-response on the 997S is great. I really didn't even begin to take control of the throttle with only an hour behind the wheel. I'd love to do a session at Laguna Seca with the active steering, then somehow turn it off and go again. At least in the 997S with PASM and Sport Chrono Plus (hereafter as SCP) I find the "normal" setting to be jumpy and difficult to drive and the suspension is under-dampened for poor roads, so it becomes harsh -- it feels like the springs are overpowering the dampers. In "sport" it feels like a nicely set up Carrera, but still very soft in roll and bit like it's riding on the dampers and the springs are a bit soft. In terms of a playful car with great power and torque in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, the 997S is finally back to what I thought when I drove an RS America years ago. It's a lively car. Ride quality has improved leaps and bounds. The chassis and suspension really "date" the 996. I've sat in only the sports and adaptive sports seats. Yawn. Give me 996 GT3 seats. Brakes in the 997 are a bit better. Brakes in the 997S are 996 Turbo brakes (great for the street, useless for track days) and the "next gen" PCCBs are quite awesome on the street (but apparently have not been improved and suffer all the same issues as the 996 product) so ceramics just aren't viable yet. From my experience, the 997S brakes are great on the street and the 997 ceramics are okay under normal driving but respond with neck-snapping power once they're hot. The 997 engine is little stronger. The 997S engine is quite strong. It even has a peculiar turbo-like surge as it gains revs on a constant throttle. I haven't driven a GT3, but the 997S is a quick car, so the 996 GT3 must be quite something for a "normal" engine. Maybe I should rethink my 997S purchase ... ? All that said, the 997S is a yawn compared to a 993 Turbo. I hope that Porsche rekindles plans and projects to bring back not only a car that looks like a 993 but also a car that feels like the 993. If I was about to spend US$100K on a car from two companies, call them "A" and "B" and one car was a 997 Carrera S from "A" and one was a 996 Carrera or 996 Turbo from "B" ... I would have no doubt company "A" would get the order. Then again, if company "B" had a 996 GT3 on offer, I'm not sure the decision is cut and dried. Cheers,

Please explain, I don't get what you are saying. Useless for track? Huh?

Quite....what's your basis for asserting 996 Turbo brakes are useless for track days???

I know what they mean. Porsche has got to work on the new cars' souls more. lol

How did my personal experince driving and comparing the two diffrent cars 996-997 go to discussing the re-sale value of a 993 ? I didn't nothing more than share my thoughts with you guys, nothing more. Is the 997 a better car - maybe, but in lifes relative world I will upgrade to the 997 S when the proper time present itself. Anyway It's good to see the amount of passion in this forum.

I bet you get one sooner than that! hahaha

It is rather the norm for a thread to take turns that the author never intended, I learned it at the racing forum, where testesterone is plenty. It is very frustrating.

OldGuy This weekend I am going to look at a '95 993. All books and service records since new, no body or paint work, all keys and all original paper work since new, less then 27,000 miles. Asking price 35K. Although I must admit I may pass. Cause, I might go for a 996 cab which I will also take a look at this weekend.

IMHO, the 997 is a better performing car than the 996, the same as the 996 is a better performing car than the 993 which is better than the 964, 911 G50, etc. The point is, if factory performance is your thing, get a 997. If you like the exterior looks, shape, interior, seats, steering wheel etc of a particular model, that's the one for you. As Mooty said, they are all good.

The remark is on the PCCB carbon ceramic brakes. There has been many accounts that these brake can not stand up to the heat and repeated braking of traack days. I have heard of guys that have replaced them 3 times within 15K miles due to track days. These brakes were design to be light and have no relation to F1 brakes. Now I just drove a 997 for a test drive. I will have to agree with the original poster response. The interior is the best upgrade of the car. It does drive nicer in terms of noise, ride, and chasis rigidity. I did push it hard into turns and it does have a stable feel and may handle a slight bit better. I do find a little more isolation between the steering wheel and road. Its not much, but I can tell they lost some feel. This is common in todays cars as manufacture are trying to please the yuppie leasies crowd even more. As said here to me it is not a big deal. I don't think it is worth trading in a 996 unless your car has high miles or at the end of a lease. The difference is small and to trade in a car which has lost $30K in value then to spend $80 to loose $10K as soon as you drive off the lot is not worth it.

RAC, I was talking mostly about 97 98's ---95's have some deficeincies in some peoples mind no vario Ram for example. Mooty youre right we should be quiet and go drive!! Thanks Stiles!

deficeincies?

I think all these cars are awesome! I would love to have the chnce to compare them at the track where they all really shine! I sat in a new 997s and interior is plush...The only thing I hate bout the car is the look of the round steering wheel. Oh well I wstill wish I hadone in the garage and can't wait to drive one too!

RAC I am an engineer I cant spell. Even my spell checkers dont work!

Old Guy I am also an engineer. Funny thing was I didn't notice anything wrong with the spelling. HEHE.

I got to see the 997 in person yesterday during my day trip to Honolulu. I was not impressed by all of the pics of the car thus far on the internet and wasn't expecting to like it, but in person I was pleasantly surprised. The interior is definitely retro - the general shape of the dash and door panels bear a strong resemblance to the 993. The seats are noticably more comfortable than my 996 seats. All of the new gadgetry, electronics, etc. give the car a very next-generation look/feel. I'm not keen on the window controls on the door panels or the steering wheel, but overall it feels nice inside. I think the rear end is the best improvement aesthetically, with the new louvers, lcd's and wide stance. It is truly beautiful from behind and in the pics I hated the rear end. The front end is a different story. I think it would have to grow on me. I don't like the headlights or the bumper. I'm well aware this is all up to personal taste, but I don't like the front end. The window coating and air-flow mirrors are a nice idea - always some improvements in little areas. The new door handles are nice - as well as their mechanism. The rims: The standard rims are fairly plain. The S rims are hideous. I remember someone suggesting once a look similar to Mitsubishi SUV rims and I have to agree. I would have to get different rims for it, that's for sure. Driving characteristics? Wish I knew. They have one "showroom floor demo only" and are taking orders. They are sold out through March for Porsche of Honolulu. They had an "S" in last week that is gone already, too bad I missed seeing it. I would expect improvements and I'm sure the car would be impressive. Overall comparison? I like my 996 interior better. The retro look just doesn't wrap around me in that cockpit sort of feel in the 997 like the 996 interior does. I like the 997 seats and gadgetry better, but that isn't enough. There isn't enough to make me like it that much more than the 996 overall. I'd rather install a supercharger in my car and upgrade the suspension than get a new one.

I drove a 997 today and here is what I think... If you already have a 996 the 997 is no big deal. The increase in HP (S Model) is nice, but not worth the markup IMO (996 50k trade in, 90k Sticker on a 997). It felt like a fast Lexus more than a 911. If you don't currently have a porsche and are looking for a 911 I would get the 997 over a used 996...maybe I have a 996 and don't think I'll be making a switch to a 997 anytime soon.

Kirb, I agree with you..Most drivers buying a 997 could not keep up with us in our 996's with such a slight difference. A good driver would beat us though in a 997... Your car looks wesome! Robert