GT3 rear sway with M030 front sway?

Anyone tried this combo out before. Maybe I'm misinterpreting info but it seems like through searching posts most guys that are running the GT3 sways are running the front bar pretty soft (near what the M030 would be anyhow) and really only utilizing the rear bar, and most of the time this is with increased rear spring rates to boot. I realize it gives away some tuning potential with the front but there wasn't any in the first place anyhow right? For reference this is on a M030 equipped car with H&R springs. I'm thinking that until I can go to coilovers with higher spring rates in the rear I'll slap the rear GT3 bar on there and see what happens. Thoughts? Andy

You usually see people upgrading sway bars in pairs. You assumption may not be valid as the GT3 sway bar at full soft is probably not equal to a M030 bar. That said you should be safe putting on a GT3 rear sway bar and tuning the handling of your car from there.

You may be correct...just running through scenerios in my head trying to understand the 996 suspension workings a little better Stock M030 bars are: 23.6 / 19.6 GT3 bars are : 26.8 / 20.7 I'm not seeing a huge jump in the rear bar esp compared to the jump in the front bar size which is what was making me really ponder (is the front bar helping control camber loss and actually helping the front stick?)...But then in searching it seems as though most guys are running the front bar pretty soft and using the rear bar for tuning. Now couple that with the fact that the M030 rear spring rate is in the ~250lb range and the GT3 rear spring rate is in the ~550 range (not to mention different valving rates) and the GT3 would appear to be quite a bit stiffer leading me to think that I'll throw the rear bar on there to see what hapens. (obviously still a band-aid approach) Maybe I'm just over-thinking different ways to make the car drive really well until i can get proper suspension under there to tune the right way. Eventually I'll need/want the front bar as well I'm just not sure it's necessarly with the car's current configuration. Andy

Beside being BIGGER the main difference is the adjustability....Doing just one end is doable, however, you may not gain much from an adjustability point of view since in most cases you want to be able to adjust them to balance each other out. I got them on both ends using the Porsche drop links....if I remember right they are not all that expensive (I know it s all relative wneh we talk money). I would not bother just doing one end, wait and do them both at the same time. One thing I did do was when my control arms went in the front I went with the cup car arms.... Almost leaves me wishing the rears would go so I can replace thoses....I know were all sick that way. Best of luck, Armando

Ignoring differences in I.D., the rear bar is approx 24% stiffer and the front is 66% stiffer given "equivalent" hole positions. From my spreadsheet calcs a while back, the GT3 front bar on it's softest setting is about 25% stiffer than the stock 23.6mm bar. The front bar is a LOT stiffer than stock.

For what it's worth, some Grand Am Cup 996s were running a stock bar in front, GT3 in back combo a couple of years ago. They have to run 245s in front and 275s in back so they really had an understeer issue to deal with. The front GT3 bar at it's softest was still too stiff. A M030/GT3 combo might work just fine. So what if it doesn't. You'll just have to poney up for the front bar and drop links. It's only money, right?

Does anyone know the part numbers for the GT3 bars? Thanks

Andy, You might want to give Mark (Carrera51) at CDOC a call. I'm sure he knows and can probably get you a good price on them. CDOC is a Rennlist sponsor and I've been very happy with both their prices and service. Jim

Audi: part numbers for the bars are as follows and are instock and ready to ship: 996-343-701-90: Front GT3 Bar: 230$CDN 996-333-701-90: Rear GT3 Bar: 200$CDN Also in stock are the Agency Power Adjustable Links and other suspension goodies.

Sorry Dead, I forgot that you were selling the stuff now. Jim

no worries jim. side note: i just got some rx8 swaybars in and compared 2 the GT3 bars, the fronts are gigantic! 32mm fronts. i don't know whether to actually install them or use them as a club to bludgeon my smartallicky disobedient little cousins when they come over to visit. *Smack!* NO you cannot play with that!

I don't see how it could be a problem mixing bars. If you could only change one bar on the 996 it would be the rear, so do it and see what happens. Don't think about how you can only adjust one end, think about how you can now adjust one end after you get the GT-3 bar in the rear.

I'm gonna give it a whirl and see what happens. I'm taking the M3 and 996 (if it's here) to Nelson Ledges for a test and tune day in May and I might even install the rear bar on the 996 at the track to more accuratly compare the effects. I'll report back what I find. The real fun will start when I get some $$$ saved up for Motons!!! Andy

WOOHOO! ya finally got a 996! where are the pics? i guess i am just late to your party

Yes, you've got to think of the whole package when you want to get your car to handle well.

Yeah...finally got it done after months of looking. Actually I'm still waiting on delivery as the car is being shipped across the country from WA to OH...but soon enough it will be here. Later this year I plan on following your lead and going with the Moton's.

that car is seriously low. Looks good. Guards Red rite?

agreed... audi, are you sure the modification to suspension is just springs? Looks definitely like coil-overs

Yes Guards Red. It was actually on PSS-9's in that picture but it's currently riding on H&R springs and factory M030 shocks. Want to talk about low...I detail this car regularly...granted it sees very little street duty.

LOL

This is a recent picture of the car back on the springs and factory shocks

WTF LOL Now that is slammed!!

that is one gorgeous car. looks like you might need the motorsport cup lip... and maybe some sportec mono10s

Rather than start a new thread I'm gonna bump this one up. Finally getting around to installing the rear GT3 bar tonight. MkI cars came with the bar set 1 from full soft. MKII GT3's came with the rear bar set 2 from full soft (1 from full stiff depending on how you look at it). Both cars have >500lb rear springs. My car has H&R rears which are like 230-260lb probressive springs...1/2 the spring rate of the GT3. I'm thinking of installing the bar at full stiff as a starting point...am I crazy? it's only a 20% increase in roll stiffness at the stiffest setting. With lack of spring rate I'm not thinking it will upset the car much. Only concern is having a hard time putting power down out of corners. Thoughts? p.s. Going back to the track next friday so I'll be able to give a full comparison of M030 rear vs. GT3 rear, with rear bar being the only change. Too soggy last track day to lay in the mud and attempt to change the bar at the track. Andy

How was the car with the 996 bar? I have H&R's with the standard 996 shocks (I know....) and am running the GT-3 bar one notch from the stiffest setting and the car is decently throttle-steerable now, unlike the plowing pig it was before.

With the standard M030 bars it wasn't bad but understeered at the limit and I'd like to be able to rotate the car some more. Not sure if it's noted but my car has the stock 225's in the front but has been upgraded to 285's out back which I don't think is helping matters. I'm actually dealing with front end traction issues (juttering of the front tires) which should be the end that I'm focusing on but like I said before...I'm just tring this as a band-aid until I can get a "real" suspension under the car this winter. Andy

I'm running a 40mm differential width-wise front to back - 215/255 on the stock 17's. I'm toying with keeping it the same when I go to 18". Maybe 235/275.

When I finally get track tires for the 996 I plan on doing something like a 245 front /275-285 rear stagger as I think that front tire is a big limiting factor for me right now...the car also badly needs some more negative camber. Tracking two cars is a never ending money pit which is why I'm trying to limit spending on the 996 for this season. The 996 is actually my wife's track toy for this year but I'm putting the M3 back to a more acceptable setup for her over the winter and doing as I please with the 996 :-). Our M3 in it's current configuration is a blast to drive but you just can't get around the heft of the car (mine's 3550lbs). Andy p.s. I think I'm going to go slow on the rear bar adjustment so no full stiff...I'll go one from full stiff and see how it does.

Russ what front bar do you have on your car..the standard bar or the M030?

Andy I'm a little interested to hear about that set up. I have always wonder how does the H&R springs work with the M030 shocks compared to the M030 system. Which M030 do you have US or ROW and how does the ride and handling compare. I am also think of trying a larger rear bar too so tell me how does it go for you.

You will find out the M3 will take some serious turns for being a pig.

Andy, I've got the standard front bar. With the car pushing as much as it was (albeit with my ham-handed driving) I didn't want to stiffen the front, at least until I saw where I could go with the GT-3 rear bar.

I've tracked the M3 for two seasons now...it's equipped with aftermarekt coilovers, sways and camber plates and I run square tire sizing at the track (275/35/18 all around). It's a blast to drive...just not much more potential in the car without taking out wieght which I'm not ready to do yet. Andy

Well I installed the rear GT3 bar last night and set it 6/7 stiff (stiffest hole on one side and 1 from stiff on the other side. Went out for a drive last night but really couldn't find anywhere that was appropriate to test it out. Look for a report back from the track this weekend. Andy