CaymanS v. 996C4S (great article)

Just picked up a copy of GT Purely Porsche (a pricey $11 at Borders!!!) Anyway, great article on what the call "Is the new coupe' as good as the best 996?" Just seeing if you read it. Not sure I can get scans together like Dave (aka Coochas) but it could take some photos of the mag and then post the article that way. Anybody read the article? Thoughts?

interesting haven't seen it.

C4S "best 996". Dunno about that, much as I'd like to agree. GT3 would get my choice as the best 996. I also think this would definitely be an apples to oranges comparison. I have opinions, and I haven't even read it yet . Off to Borders I go!

I saw a cayman s at the dealership for $72k.. figured the tax into it, with the registration, luxury fee and all that other junk.. and for $80,000+ it just doesn't look worth it.. i suppose for people that already have a 911 and want a track car... but if one is looking for one and only porsche in their garage, i can't justify spending $80k for the funny looking thing... it's basically a boxter s coupe with a few more hp ..which should be $10k less than a boxster... not sure why they are charging $10k more than a boxster s for the thing... but they are sold out everywhere thusfar, so people are biting apparently...

10K gets you 15hp. Just like the 997 X51 gets you 26hp for 17K But I agree with you Bob (did I actually just say that?) it is priced a bit high.

What was their conclusion, as if I couldn't guess.

wouldn't an exhaust and some other simple mods do the same thing? 15hp, blah.. it's like the lotus.. i sat in that thing the other day.. it's just an overpriced track toy.. i can't see any other purpose for it.. they are extremely clostrophobic tiny vehicles with horrible blindspots.. i couldn't imagine driving them in bottleneck traffic, i'd drive myself crazy wanting some space..

I actually agree with you Bob, they are tiny inside, I'm 6'1" and was constantly hitting my head on the roof.

I'm actually considering the Cayman S or a 996 GT3 ($90K) as my track *****... the idea of a new Porsche track car for 80K is pretty tempting, and damn that stupid lizard is growing on me.

I'm thinking 996GT3 in about 3 years for a track car. Should have depreciated nicely by then.

The value of the 996 GT3 has fallen big time. Expect depreciation to accelerate when the new model is unveiled--later this month? The next year or so will probably be a great time to buy. Price has dropped but there are plenty of clean examples.

Agree, next yr will be a buyers market for the GT3. 'Bout time Rob, time for a little track!!! See ya out there!

I'd say the C4S is the best everyday, n/a 911 (up to te 996 model anyways) GT3 is a bit different turbo is a bit different

Chris.....as you could prob imagine, they chose the 4S. And I can't believe both of us have agreed with Bob in one post. What is this world coming to?

again, many of you cite cayman as 70 or 80k car. no, it's not. if you optioned it up to that much, you obviously bought the damn car for the wrong reason. i have two of them, well one for now, the other one showing up anytime soon. both are under 63k. yes, like all other porsches, they are OVERPRICED, but they are not 70-80k cars. please do not say if cayman is less or more of a car than 997 996 993 until you drive the **** out of one. it's a very different car. no better no worse. and yes, i am comparing that even with my GT3s. also, many are saying that in a few years, GT3's will drop to 70k and will be a bargin to pick up for a track car. with all due respect, what do you mean by TRACK car. i put close to 6k track miles on my in ONE year and anothe rennlister logged over 10k track miles in ONE year. with this type of track mileage, you will be very very SHOCKED on how much consumable you are chewing through. i have a receipt of $4k or so just on BRAKE PADS. you dont want to know how much i burned on pilot sport cups, rotors, the freaking chin lip spoiler that i buy by the dozen (i am NOT exaggerating). most ppl with this much track miles pretty much killed the LSD on the car. to really get it right, you need a PMS or paul guard LSD. that's another very large bill. i burn about $300 on fuel per track day and this is on cheap gas. i have a buddy burning about $500/day on 100 oct. that's 15k on track fuel ALONE every year for my buddy. so the purchase price of the GT3 is really peanuts. it's the consumables, if you REALLY are talking about using it as a track car.

John, How's the Caymen doing in the consumables department? Going to Infineon at the end of this month with TM?

I sat in a Cayman this past weekend and am 6'1" and had plenty of headroom. In fact, I would be able to get my helmet and cold air hose (on top of helmet) in easily so I don't understand the headroom issue, it has plenty. The Cayman is a totally different car than a 911 platform and I believe it will become the DE car of choice in the future. There were at least 4 of them at the 48 Hours of Sebring last weekend. They are very well balanced and from what I've heard, easy to drive on the track, much like the 944. Reliability is one concern I have. I've heard they may have an overheating problem on the track on hot days due to limited air supply to the engine compartment although I have no first hand knowledge of this. It is an intriguing car none the less. All Porsches are pricey in my opinion but they do run well on the track and with all the beating they take, they seem to last as well.

eric, yes, i will be at infineon 2/24 right? too many dates, i am little confuesed, i know i will be at LS 2/20. cayman has more headroom than 996 for sure. i tried both. The Cayman is a totally different car than a 911 platform: RIGHT ON. I believe it will become the DE car of choice in the future: PERHAPS. WE SHALL SEE. I LOVE IT THOUGH. There were at least 4 of them at the 48 Hours of Sebring last weekend: WHAT RACE IS THIS? GRAND AM, PCA? WHERE CAN I FIND INFO ON THE RACE AND THE CAYMAN DRIVERS. They are very well balanced and from what I've heard, easy to drive on the track: BALANCED INDEED, MUCH LIKE MY ALMOST RACE PREPPED E36M3. EASY TO DRIVE UP TO A CERTAIN POINT, THEN YOU BETTER HOLD ON AND WATCH OUT, ;-) Reliability is one concern I have: YOU ARE GETTING ME WORRIED MITCH, LOL. I've heard they may have an overheating problem on the track on hot days due to limited air supply to the engine compartment although I have no first hand knowledge of this. : I WILL KEEP AN EYE ON IT DURING SUMMER MONTHS WHEN I AM OUT AT THUNDERHILL AT OVER 100F. I KNOW THE BOXSTERS DONT HAVE OVERHEATING PROB. I AM KEEPING MY FINGERS CROSSED AS I USUALLY DRIVE 2X SESSIONS STRAIGHT, AND ALL DAY LONG.

Yeah, between my recording studio and the family I have little free time for tracking cars, but it's starting to gnaw at me. Also, we are building a 3rd garage, so I'll actually have room for it. When I had both 996's my wife's Lexus was delegated to the driveway.

What, are you trying to say I have a fat head?

Moot, Go to http://www.48-hours-at-sebring.com/?...n=sebring.main Check race registration and DE registration to find the Caymans. There was one actually racing and a couple in DE. The one racing was speed yellow with red graphics just like the new Porsche ALMS car. I didn't pay too much attention because I was in a different group and focused on my car but I heard he did alright for an undeveloped car. It can take a long time to get a stock car to be fast on the track. Especially one that nobody has any experience with. My girlfriend just ordered one. She's as much a track junkie as me so she ordered it with very few options. Carrera GT Silver and 19 inch wheels was about it. We'll stick some suspension in it with and GT3 seats and I predict it will be a very fast track car. I've had several long test drives and I would personally take it over a C4S any day. I hate weight! Just my thoughts. I love the car. Jim

I think it will be a great car. Orbit Racing down here is trying to get a 3.8l engine to work with the PSM (the real nightmare of making it work) and when they are done, it may give the cup cars a run. The comment about overheating was told to me, and I don't know how much truth was in the statement of if that person was merely bashing the car.

I don't think I could say that about anyone considering the pic in my avatar.

the funny thing about the cayman is, aren't you not supposed to track any cars according to porsche? if you track it, it voids the warranty right? so... if porsche doesn't want you to track the car... why did they create it and advertise it for that market?

That's a whole other can of worms Bob.

yup, don't go there, there's a 20 page thread on the turbo forum right now and its getting a little messy

On a side note about the cayman, I was dropping my car off at Farnbacherloles in CT last week (what an amazing facility) and they were working on two Cayman projects there. One had a built-in TT motor with 500+hp and the other had the 3.8l dropped in.... They looked drop dead gogeous with aero kits and rims Pics to come...

Personally I don't have any problem with Porsche voiding the warranty if you track a car. I don't think they have much choice. Things happen on the track that just don't happen on the street and that you can't expect the car to survive without damage. You can't expect Porsche to warrantee your tranny if you accidentally downshift to 1st rather than 3rd and tear up your syncros. Or worse, zing your engine because you just had a 11,000 rpm mechanical over-rev. And please don't say they should build the cars to withstand it. Purpose built race cars costing twice as much can't be built to withstand a missed shift. And there is also the matter of wear and tear. A mechanic treats each day of DE as 1k miles for the purposes of general maintenance. A car that runs a 24 hour race is basically a throw away. Stuff wears out much faster on the track. That's not a Porsche thing, it's a race car thing. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should or could get by with not fixing your radio because you track the car but conversely, you shouldn't expect them to fix your syncros or clutch or brakes or ? if you've been to the track. As always, just my opinion. Jim

The GT article was a bit of a cop out I thought. The pemise is that the 2 cars could be had for roughly the same coin, so which would it be? The main author concludes that the cars are basically equal in that they both have such great characteristics but he'd rather have a 911 just 'cuz 911's give him a chubby, but then they offer an alternative point of view from an associate editor (or somebody like that) who says he'd rather have a Cayman S. It's like those stupid C&D comparisons where they have one car come in first, and then they offer another opinion where that car came in second. I didn't actually like the article very much. IMO, The C4S looks much better than the CaymanS, but I'd have to drive a Cayman S before offfering anything intelligent up on the matter. I'm not sure I'd want my dedicated track car to be mid-engined and my regular car to be rear engined. I find that the 2 experiences compliment each other, and I'm not sure I'd want to have to change driving styles that much from one to the other (other than aggressiveness and speed!). I think I'd pick a Cayman S as a track car if my daily driver was a BoxsterS, and an older 911 if my daily driver was a 996 or 997 . . . -B

This one? http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/15/p...-in-the-u-s-a/

Here is more data on the Cayman GTR at the company website. "Up to" 500 hp. http://www.farnbacherloles.com/st/projects.asp

Here's my take on tracking a Porsche. I agree that they can't warrantee a broken whatever caused by over-revving caused by a missed shift. But that would be easy for them to prove since it would show up on the data download. Exclusive of damage caused by going outside the performance parameters of the car, they should cover DE. The spirit of owning a Porsche, and much of their marketing is tracking the car. Now racing is a different point but the fact is that most people I know who do DE are maintaining their cars much better than the average Porsche owner. They drive with great skill and are careful to avoid damage. Compare that to the guy who just does street racing, blasting from red lights, tires screaming after the clutch has been popped........ Which is worse? Using track driving as a way to void the warrantee is just a cop out and would be dissapointing for a company such as Porsche. Luckily, this issue is dealer dependent and I like my dealer.

I agree with both of you. I desire a sports car more than a GT car, so I think that I personally would prefer a Cayman S over a 997 for a dual street/track use car. If you learn to drive it to 100% of its potential, you would probably take several 997s on the track. If you still can't, swapping in a 3.8 should be very easy . . . Then, the 997 would not stand much of a chance.

Mooty, I have been trying, unsuccesfully, to explain this idea to my buddies around here. A mid-engined platform is far superior and will stick longer than a rear-engined platform BUT, when it decides to let go, it goes faster and it is harder to catch. A rear engined platform let's go earlier, but it let's go nice and progressively so it is easier to catch and control. I still prefer mid-engined, but it is an interesting phenomena. That's why Boxsters spin like a top when they let go. Pretty wild to see it happen in person. TD

i personally witness a boxster spin at button willow. it must have gone around 6-8 times. i have NEVER seen anything do that except a top. in a 911, it's a big off if you make 360 deg. but the boxster i saw was quite something else. i REALLY thought he was doing it on purpose for a show as i have never seen such spin (of course that was 4 years ago when i just started driving on track).

The difference in spinning is really caused by polar moment differences. Imagine a Boxter, all the weight is in the middle. Now compare that to the 944, all the weight is at the ends of the car. When a 944 gets out of shape, it is less recoverable than the Boxter but when it spins, it will do so slower. So the Boxter is more forgiving but when it lets go........

The same reason a skater spins on an axis quicker if they tuck their limbs inwards, and slow down when they stretch, right ? This analogy makes me see it more clearly, may help.

Great analogy

That was one of them.... But they had a white one they just dropped a TT engine into

I just spent 3 days with a Cayman S. I drove the **** out of it. really have to wring the engine to get performance. Really solid in the corners and the rough stuff. I'll keep my C4S.