Anyone in Denver who can look at a car for me?

I'm looking for someone who can go look over a car that I'm close to buying in Denver and also recommend a shop to do a complete PPI. Before I hop on a plane to see and drive it myself, I want to make sure it's not a complete waste of time. It's a CPO'd dealer car. Please PM if you can do it.

err if it's CPO, doesnt that negate the need for a PPI since anything that breaks will be warrantied?

I thought so too, until I read all the past posts regarding PPI being a must even for CPO cars.

Get me the info and I will do it for you. Where is it?

Hi Tim, I just PM'd you the info. Thanks for your help. Phil

Phil: I stopped by today and the sales guy was not there so I looked at it by myself (much better that way) Ok, keep in mind I am an **** car guy. This car has been driven and driven hard. It was dirty as heck (see pictures). It paint is swirled badly and will take some work to bring back to life. You will see the road rash on the lower rear portion of the bumper cover. The tires are mis-matched. Although both Pirelli one set is Russo and the other Assymetrico so different tire tread patterns. The right rear is worn more than the left rear. No scuffs on the rims and no dents on the car. There is one slight scratch on the passenger door (see pictures). The car has evidence of being buffed real hard or had a compound used on it. There were white deposits on many of the body panel edges. And I saw some evidence that the rear lid MIGHT have been painted. But I cannot confirm. Like I said the paint is not in great condition. It had oil around the drain plug and in front of it. It may have had or may have an RMS leak. That needs to be checked as I could not get far under the car. The clutch felt good and engaged where it was supposed to. You will also notice the movie I shot of the squeaking from the car when you moved the clutch peddle. This will need to be checked. The interior looks fin with no wear. But it has spots on the carpet and looks to have been a fairly dirty interior. When I checked things like the storage compartment etc. there was plenty of dust and residue from life. The ash tray looked clean and so did the lighter (although a sales puke tried to steal the lighter while I was in the car). Now this is a subjective opinion but the car did not smell right inside. Didn�t smell wrong either. Just not like any of the 3 PCars I have owned. I don�t think it had been smoked in. I am pretty good at detecting that. I made a quick phone call to a small dealer here locally and he has an 02 in pristeen condition (Seal Gray on Gray) with lots of options but its cost is 61k. My gut feeling is that the dealer needs to bring this up to spec to sell it. Tires, Detail and Paint mostly. I sent you the complete package of photos via email. Squeaky Clutch Walk around 1 Walk around 2

Typical of Stevinson's Porsche, I try so hard to like that dealership but they always fall short for me. They had a car I really liked but passed on cause the way they dealt with me. Not once but twice.

Personaly I think they are less than nice to deal with. I like RM Autosport alot.

Well it is good to know that i am not the only one. Have yet to deal with RM Autosport.

They have had that car quite a while and it has been reduced several times. I think it was in the mid 60's before. There pictures make the car look very clean. However Tim's pics show the true condition.

Well, I was looking for an excuse to register/post... I just got my car from RM Autosport last week, and had a good experience. I dealt w/ Hector, who apparently used to work at Stevenson. He's a nice guy.

Hi Tim, I sent you a PM but let me just say in the open forum, how incredibly generous of you it was to do such a thorough inspection of that car. The saleshmuck made it sound like it had practically just arrived fresh from the factory! I would have been incredibly pissed to get to Denver and see for myself what the car was actually really like...at least I could have headed for the hills and gotten some decent skiing in! Because of this kind of support form this forum, I really can't wait to get my first P-car and join this fratenity. Let me know about that other C4S; seal grey is one of my favorite colours on the 996s. Actually, ther are a couple in Florida that I'm hoping to get more info on as well...so if any of you in the sunshine state want to help me out, that would be great. Phil

Us Colorado folks do NOT use Stevinson for our P-cars...for warranty it is usually Prestige...but most "other" stuff is the independents. Tim, that was really nice of you. Nice write-up. You the man!

Phil: I was more than happy to help. There have been several occasions that people on this board have helped me out by checking out cars. I have had and have checked out BMW's too. It kind of puts the sales guy on his heals when somebody that really knows the car shows up and grills it. I delt with the sales manager today and when I brought the keys back I grilled him on the tire difference and RMS issues. He actually talked to me as if I did not know the PCar had different front and rear tire widths. Had to redirect him and tell him he had different TYPES front and back, ya know, different tread patterns etc. Goober. And get this. You will get a chuckle out of this. I was in my jeans and sweater and just drivign off the lot and a sales guy flags me down. I thought, OOPS what did I do (what!? No power slides?). He ran up to the car and said he was looking for something. Opened th ash tray and said, Nope. Then looked on the dash and said AHHHH and swiped the lighter. He was a few steps away and said, "are you buying this?". I said "No, but a friend of mine might." "Oh here have this back I wanted it for another car" was his response. I said "Thanks, I had already taken a picture of it for my friend" If you come out and it works for people we will have to do a drive to initiate you correctly Red Rocks anyone?

next time I buy a porsche I want Tim to inspect it for me.

Especially if it is in Hawaii

I'm looking forward to the inevitable follow-up call/email from Stevinson about this car. He's going to get an earful. Hard to believe that they could CPO a car with mismatched tires and uneven wear! PCNA should be a little stricter about the certification criteria with their dealers.

We bought a certified car '02 996 with mismatched tires a few years ago. We drove the car home from Louisanna. When I complained about the tires and the use of 10-30w mobil1 the dealer paid for an oil change and had a new front set of pilot sports shipped to my home. Prestige is a really good dealer especially for service. I can't figure out what's going on with Stammler in Boulder.

The rumor I heard was they were losing their dealership for Porsche. I called them about a month ago to see what they had sitting on their lot before I took the long drive down there. When I asked about any used 996 the sales guy in a very nasty and rude voice says to me, "We don't carry any USED Porsches!" I just started to laugh and said I guess you don't want any of my USED money then! It just amazes me how some of these sales guys are. For the life of me I can't figure out how they make enough money to even eat?

Thought you'd be interested in the reply from Stevinson when I told them my concerns after Tim's inspection. "Phil, Your friend is quite the Porsche fan. Although I strongly disagree with his assessment of the car and it's appearance, he seems to have given a pretty detailed personal assessment. A car like this can be purchased on the open market in good condition for around $66k, without CPO. Professional detailing is not part of the CPO program, and the paint is in excellent condition. We have no evidence of repaint or damage. The interior is clean and fresh. I'm not sure what you mean by how it smells, I could detect nothing wrong, but that is all a matter of personal preference. Everything that you point to can be accomplished with a professional detail and perhaps a new set of rear tires. As far as a tiny bit of oil underneath the car, well, that is Porsche. If the RMS needs replaced, you are covered under warranty. We own the car for $58k, so there is no room to negotiate on price. Is it worth your spending $300 on a professional detail? Sure. Maybe another $500 on a set of rear tires? Probably. Will it look like new after all that? I doubt it, it is a used car. This is a one owner car and has 27k miles. That's very low. Also, I'm not sure what your friend meant by the car being driven hard, it is a Porsche C4S, a performance car typically driven by men who have owned previous Porsche models. Can you take it a Porsche dealer and have additional work done under warranty when needed, yes. An extended warranty purchased from a Porsche dealer by a private party costs $5,500. This car is priced at $55,988 plus $299.50 D&H, non negotiable. These are all things you should take into consideration if buying a Porsche. If this is not the car for you, I hope that you will find a satisfactory example on the open market. Thank you for your interest. Regards, Stevinson Imports - Denver" A little defensive...I'm surprised that they'd put the onus on the buyer to clean up the car and put matching tires on it. Oh well, letting this one go anyway.

Stammler is trying to sell the dealership. Porsche says they need to have a building for just Porsche (no sharing with Audi). I personally have had an miserable time dealing with Stammler. From sales people to maintenance they are aweful and arrogant. I would drive many miles to avoid them for anything. Prestige is it for metro-Denver warranty items.

Phil: Funny indeed. Considering I have owned 3 PCars and they all smells similar inside I kinda know what I am talking about. My 01 C2 which lived in the Buffalo NY area was not as dirty as this and it has 44k miles. There was so much road crud under the panels in the trunk area I was amazed (remember the picture for the battery). Perfect paint is mostly swirl free and smooth. This car was swirled more than most and was rough in spots. He is probably a temp sales guy from their Ford shop. As he also thinks PCars leaking oil is normal. His warranty reliance is typical of a car they know as issues but do not care to fix until it is claimed by the new owner under warranty. Ask me about RM Eurosports blatent sale of cruddy cars some time. I am SOOOOOO tempted to write the owner a letter outlining the BS that this sales puke is spilling forth but I bet they are all corrupt bastards anyway. Funny thing is I know one of their star athlete spokes people and more higher ups than they may realize. Also, Mr. "I'm not sure what your friend meant by the car being driven hard, it is a Porsche C4S, a performance car typically driven by men who have owned previous Porsche models." I have owned other PCars AND drove them hard and would never let my car get into this kind of shape. And as you are finding hiss 66k is BS out of his A$$. I even sent you the info on that nice Seal Gray in Chicago for 57995 with only 15k miles. Oh well, sit on it Stevinson.

Ya know what would be cool? Get a bunch of us enthusiasts togther and buy it. Then turn it into a dealership that treats people like they should. OH GASP!!! We shouldn't expect to be treated rudely by pompous sales jerks??????? Go figure.

I am guessing the sales guy is named Steve? Sounds like him. I love it when they say this car would be sold on the open market for $66k for a good one. But we will sell you ours for $56k+. lol I guess theirs is a bad one then if they are selling that low and they got $58k into it. Don't worry there are lots of cars out there, the right will find you. If this one didn't work out that just means a better one will come along. That is what my friend told me when I passed on a Fcar that I wanted very badly.

Ok I'll ask. I was wondering about them and what was their rep was?

They are ok guys but the business practices are questionable. Here is the short story. I was there with a friend who was looking at PCars. I had told him to look out for this and that and one thing in particular was the whole RMS issue. While we were there a nice older lady came in to look at a C2 Cab. When they pulled it out of the spot there was a large amount of oil on the floor. I pointed it out to my friend Mike. And the lady overheard. She asked me about it to. So I explained what it was. After she drove off to drive the car Leon (owner) jumped my *** about it. He was clearly upset that I pointed it out and insinuated that because she was a woman she did not need to know. My stance was that with the severity of the leak he should have been up front about it and repaired it. He also said it was a chance to sell her a waranty etc. Overall the experiance was a negative one (for me, not Mike). My buddy even bought his C2 from them. Yet it took him waiting 2+months and getting very upset with them to fulfil the WE OWE on his car. Personally RM Autosport off SantaFe is far more honest and classy to deal with. This is just my story.....

Yup, his name is Steve. I've also never met a dealer who is in the habit of selling his used inventory at a loss. Used cars are where they can rack up the highest grosses, so I'm guessing they're not being too honest about a) the vehicle's mechanical history or b)what they actually paid for it. You're right, there are a lot of cars out there and I can afford to be picky. My wife is pretty funny about it...she's always been all for the p-car and now she just wants me to hurry up and get one even if it costs a bit more than planned! Cool! Tim, I will call LM in Chicago about that car on Monday.

What independant repair / maintenance providers would you guys recommend on the south side of Denver or in Colorado Springs? I live in the Monument area and just hit 20k miles on my 99. When I bought the car at 13k miles (in May last year) the previous owner had all of the maintenance done at Stevinson and I just assumed they were as good as any.

Yep, Stammler is getting out of the business although I was in there yesterday and they had a Cayman sitting on the show floor. Go figure. Rumor is that Glauser may build a stand-alone facility out on US 36. The guys in Fort Collins - Ed Carroll - are upgrading to a stand-alone facility. They replaced my engine and I was happy with the service. As for not selling used, that has always been Stammler's MO for some reason. Revenue/profit probably not predictable enough. The guys in Niwot - Gunbarrel Motors - usually have a number of used (pre-owned?) 996/993/964s on the lot. His prices are usually pretty high but his cars are usually in good condition and as-advertised. Not affiliated yada yada... http://www.gunbarrelmotors.com/ BTW, I have never had luck with so-called "certified" cars, whether Audi or Porsche or whatever. I always have found pretty serious stuff that was overlooked, including a car I bought from Prestige and we 'round and 'round on that. Get a good independent assessment.

I take mine to Eurosport...ask for Orrin. http://www.eurosport-ltd.com/

Just for the fun of it, I ran a search on the US manheim network of dealer auctions (of which I have access to). 02 C4S Coupe: Below Average Above $46,339 $55,285 $64,231 35,568m 23,712m 11,856m What this leads me to believe is there's a HUGE discrepancy in price between a "rough" car and a "clean" car. A car with 27000 miles sold in California and was classified an "above average" car (which is leaps and bounds above that car) for $54k. I think there are much better deals to be had.

I agree. I'm seeing lots of very clean "above average" cars out there and most of them are private sales with 1 or 2 owners in their Carfax history, with OEM warranty and sometimes CPO. They usually send pretty decent photos to back up their claims too. I'll spend 53K to 59K for an '02 and up to 64K for a really nice '03. So the search is still on.

HA! I knew it. I have had a few run in with that jerk.