Bought a 996 and... disaster

So as the title says, I picked up my first 996 on thursday, a divorcee's in central Florida's weekend car, Been haggling over it for a few months now and finally got to a price where I figure it was worth buying while I await my 718 GTS 4.0 to arrive at the end of the summer. Its a very basic arctic silver over seal grey c2 cab and the first few days have good great, even took it to a local Porsche indy here called the "Werkshop" and after a quick inspection, car seemed to be fairly solid outside of a few vaccum lines that may have started to develop a small leak, and possibly an 02 sensor going bad ( had a cel for a misfire a few times but it never really misfired just a little weird idle randomly. with this in mind I have been driving the car around the area preparing for my 3 hour drive home today, but yesterday is where things went downhill, pulling out of my driveway which is a slow (sub 15mph) bumpy road for about 1/2 a mile I heard a weird sounding pop at the end ( I figured I ran something over but did not see anything) nothing weird happened after and I continued driving, about 20 minutes into it I went to downshift into 2nd and I hear a terrible grind, I chalk it up to just maybe I did not depress the clutch all the way or something accidental ( I have been driving manuals for many many years and own 3 sticks currently) , I am very comfortable but we all make mistakes, I go on, next time I go to downshift into 2nd again same thing, and I remember the day before I let my dad drive the car, he also had a small grind trying to go into 2nd but again chalked it up to nothing serious and user error. Well as I continue on this drive, i start feeling a slight change in the shifter, the rest of the gears seem to be almost a tiny bit notchier and the faster I try to downshift into 2nd the worse and worse it grinds, upshifts while slow seem to fine ( I did not try any heavy throttle shift's after this to avoid damage) For some reference, in the last owners 5 year ownership car has not had any clutch work/trans service outside of a "metal" short shifter installed a few years back, no clue on brand, but he claims no cables and just the shifter was done. Obviously something has gone wrong, the question is what should I be bracing for? this was one of those lowball and if it works purchases so I am into the car for what I deems to be a fairly resonable amount (13k for a 123k mile no accident/ clean carfax driver condition 996 cab) but this was not a car I wanted to make into a project as my Boxster gts 4.0 arrives in sum 7x days and this was more supposed to be a fun in between to try out. I know 996's have 2nd gear issues, I also know this could be a full rebuild ( what I am expecting) but I guess can also be anything cables/ fluid/ shift fork/ arrestor related. it almost felt like a trans that was low on fluid but for it to have such a quick change from okay to not okay makes me think it is not that. Rennlist has been a god send on the 718 forums, so hoping someone hear can steer me in the right direction of what my next steps should be. I live full time in South Florida so the shop around here (werkshop won't really work and they are booked 3 months out) any advice or infomration would be much appreciated as I definitely want to get this thing back on the road without bleeding money into it, but at the same I know if the trans is out for a rebuild, it would be silly not to do everything while its out, IMS solution, clutch, RMS, etc which will turn into a 5k+ expedition in no time. Pictures for attention. Thanks again to everyone in advance who comments ( if you are here to warn me about the trials and tribulations of buying higher mileage depreciated german cars with minimal service history, I am well aware, I have owned Porsche 944's to R129 Mercedes SL's and everything in between so I am aware of the risks involved and how costly these things can get, but hey as car guys its a sacrifice we make!

Have you looked for any clips at the tranny where the cables attach for loose connections? Pretty clean for $13k, tranny issues notwithstanding.

Could just be that the shifter cable has slipped out of the mount on the side of the transmission. Happens a lot. Get it on a lift or some jack stands and check the cables. Racers zip tie the shifter cables to the brackets to make sure they don't pop out.

I would second what is said above, make sure shifter cables are in place. I am in the Daytona area, too bad you are not closer, would love to help out.

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Nope have not had the car up in the air yet, would loose cables result in grinding on downshifts like that? I've always been in the camp of once it gets to the point where its grinding that bad, its past anything simple. but seems like the more I read about there are a few things that could mimic those conditions that are not catastrophic.

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ah ya about an hour up north! how easy is to check? like I said new to this platform but not a complete idiot, if its something that can be checked without a lift or basic tools I am all ears!

Did you take it to Dan in Melbourne? Are you still in the area?

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Yes, dan and his guys looked it over, and yep I am here till this evening/ tmmr, not sure when I will leave, I have some work to do tmmr, but I was hoping to bring it by his shop in the morning. I left a voicemail on his shop line as well but its the weekend so i doubt I will hear back till tmmr.

on the techs test drive he said it was fine but did mention the shifter felt a little different than stock, but not shorter, so curious as to what the PO may have put in

I'm local and I do have a set of QuickJack lifts and just about any tool you might need. I'm heading out right now with my wife, but drop me a PM and maybe we can connect.

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Thats a big ask, if you know these cars well enough you think you'd be able to tell if its something like a cable adjustment or a trans rebuild I would definitely appreciate it, would be nice to know how safe my 3 hour drive home tmmr will be or if I should just be towing it. Im on south tropical trail so lmk if that is close!

$13K for that car!?!

Well just left @Marv place and first thing first, have to say the rennlist community is awesome, he invited me to his house and we were able to remove the center console and take a look, seems like the PO put a function first shifter in the car and while we were able to tighten it a little, it still had a slightly alarming amount of back and fourth play. After driving the car some more its comes down to just not being able to blip 2nd gear downshifts, when down shifting slowly and rev matching the way I did when I first started driving stick it seems alright, and up shifts will still a little notchy and weird are alright. The rest of the gears have no problem blipping down so my guess is it will be a worn down synchro. Going to replace the fluid and get her up in the air this week to hopefully rule out a few other things. Unfortunate to say the least but at least I can drive her home. Can't say enough nice things about @Marv , a stand up gentleman with a truly gorgeous GT3. As I dig more into the car I will keep this thread updated with what I find!

Nice assist, Marv. Good luck with the car Phillip. Don't assume the worst yet. Change fluid. Adjust the shifter. Inspect and bleed the clutch. Look at the slave. Then, maybe then, suspect worn syncros.

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I am holding out a shred of hope, going to all of that asap and hope it will fix it, but now its one of those things where as a car guy you can just feel it is what you fear, hopefully I am wrong as I was really starting to like the thing, has a fun soul, and sounds pretty good when that variocam kicks on, was really looking forward to hearing it with a nice exhaust, but if this becomes too much of a headache I may just move on from it when my GTS arrives, alas only time will tell.

Phillip, thanks for the kind words. Keep us up to date with what you do and find. Replace the fluids with correct fluids as soon as you can. Save a sample of the old fluid. I'm sure the forum will chime in with the best transaxle fluid. My take is the car is getting up there in mileage and needs a little gentler touch (at least for now). However, the play (forward and aft) in the gear lever has more movement when the **** is engaged in second gear than fourth by a factor of two. This may have something with the cable at the transmission's end, but that will need a visual inspection. Everything is solid under the center console now. Other than that, the car is really impressive. Phillip, you got one hell of a ride, even with the issue you have. I don't think it is a big problem. Have a great ride home tomorrow!

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The car is very clean and tight. I was impressed when I drove it. Smoking deal.

Philip, welcome to the 996 club. Car looks great and for the price you paid, you have plenty of room for refreshing parts. The 996 is a pleasure to own and drive. Marv, great to see you helping out a fellow 996 member! You the man!

As a point of reference my 99 C4 has 149k on the chassis . Last year I installed the Function First shifter upgrade kit . The reason I did this was because the shifter was sloppy/loose . But all gears were available for up and down shifts . The FF kit was installed and I also changed the gear/front diff gear oil to Motul synthetic . Not pushing that just stating what I used . To my knowledge just based on visual inspection my shift cables may be the original ones . My shifting action is butter smooth , zero issues up or down . The feel is perfect . A little cold blooded like they usually are . My point being I don't think the FF you have is the source of your issues . Also I have personally seen and driven cars that were " notchy " that were corrected by switching to Swepco 201 gear oil . For some transaxles this magic elixir has worked well . Good luck with your journey to get the issue resolved .

I wouldn't loose much sleep over it. Worst case you have to get some work done on the trans. It's going to happen to every 996 someday. Just like an engine rebuild. Metal, just like plastic and rubber wear down after 20+ years. Doesn't matter what car or model. It's a fact of life. Best course of action if you are NOT a talented DIY guy is to find a world class Porsche Indy that you can rely on. Remember, the 996 has been around for 25 years. Everything that could ever happen to a 996 has already happened. We all know what could fail and the industry already has plenty of preventative solutions as well as fix-it solutions to fix what's already broken. You will find that the 996 is worth it.

I've read somewhere that the 996 had issues with downshifting from 3rd to 2nd because of the shift forks? I too had a few times where I would try to downshift from 3rd to 2nd rolling like 20 mph and it would grind......now that I know that I just downshift at a slower speed without issue. I want to say there was an issue with tolerances inside the transmission with the second & third shift forks? Could be way off on this one but thats what I thought.

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All of my 996 Porsches had the dreaded 1-2 or 3-2 crunch. Horrible feeling like the transmission is going to fall out beneath the car. Changed from the factory Shell gear oil to LiquiMoly gear oil and the crunch was still there. Then, I hear that Tony Callas and Jake Raby recommended using Swepco 201. I changed the LiquiMoly out for Swepco 201 and sure enough... the crunch is GONE!!! Alway smart to listen to people that know their stuff about these cars.

+1 for Swepco 201. It's not miracle oil -- my transmission still balks a bit when cold -- but it is the best so far. That 1-2 play is not at the lever. Not cables either because it would be there in 3-4 too.

OEM Porsche trans oil is also good. Fixed my 3-2 issues on a rebuilt box.

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Where did you buy it and do I read it correct 80w90? I need to change my transmission fluid soon and wouldn't mine giving this a shot!

Swepco 201 80-90w Amazon.com: SWEPCO Gear Oil - Swepco 201 - SAE 80W-90 Conventional (1 Gallon) SWEPCO201 : Automotive Amazon.com: SWEPCO Gear Oil - Swepco 201 - SAE 80W-90 Conventional (1 Gallon) SWEPCO201 : Automotive

Sorry to hear. Keep us updated.

Far from disaster?

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Or here for less than half the cost: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203050437131

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Looks like 2 dollars difference in cost to me,

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Hmmm...so it is. Not sure why Amazon first quoted me $207 but something was off the first time I clicked on the link!

Swepco 201 mite give a little better shifting when hot and a little less grind, but many people have complained about the cold shifting beiing a lot stiffer... Bottom line is you need a new Second gear sycro's...they are not going to get any better...The second gear gets banged a lot more then the other gears is why they fail often... The good news is you can replace the Second gear syncro without doing a full rebuild.. it is the first gear to come off the shaft... well the 1st and second gear and slide all comes off together..no need to go further unless you just want to replace all the syncro's and pinion bearings "while you're in there"...of course that rabbit hole can get very deep...Cheers !! PS :: there are step by step DIY's in the archive for replacing just the second gear syncro's just removeing the tail housing and using a long puller, no 50 ton press needed...

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As others have mentioned with links, I just bought it off Amazon. Just make sure you get Swepco 80W90, not the straight grade.

Just for reference for the few that don't believe me.

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Hey Skip! Good information. I do remember you speaking about that topic before and even read through a thread with images of what second gear wear looks like on these Getrag transmissions. It's like the shape of the teeth are worn down. Anyway, I can ONLY speak from direct experience and was amazed when the grinding noise and crunch feel was eliminated. It actually helped smooth out shifting when the car was cold too, not just when it warmed up. When the car was cold is when I noticed it the most.

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I switched from Porsche brand to Swepco. I'm not switching back.

So took it back to Dan at Werkshop today and it looks like synchros it is, up shifting, and shifting down at lower speeds or slowly, almost as if you let it sit in N and then go into 2nd, making it a 2 step process versus by normal heal toe or smooth blip. Called vertex in miami today and they told me $4500 in parts and 3k in labor to rebuild the trans, which I just can not justify. Good to know that the 2nd gear synchro can be done without requiring a full rebuild, but I need to find a shop honest enough to be able to do that, because if I keep the car I will definitely want to go that route. Good call on the fluid, will also try that. I drove the car home for 3 hours and it was great, sat perfectly at 90-100, got her up to about 150 and she felt great. Dan and another shop both said leave the car alone, its 25 years old and drives the part. I will say I do think I want to find a coupe, given the fact that my BGTS 4.0 will be here soon and thats a convertible, I feel like having a 996 cab as well defeats the purpose. Either way the 996 bug definitely bit, very underrated cars. I was not expecting to like it as much as I did. Also I randomly get a misfire code for bank 1/2/3 and sometimes 4/5/6, the car does not actually ever misfire, but sometimes when coming to a stop will idle at 1100 for a second before coming down to 8-900. Werkshop said probably a small vacuum leak as the lines are getting old and also not to pay it much mind. She does look great tho, going to restore and reclear the headlights tmmr, have my PDR guy come in, and give it a nice wash, lets see how well she cleans up.

Phillip, great ride home. All the 911s tend to like shifting like that. Out of gear, slight pause, then into the next. You will get used to it. Work on being smooth . That is the most important thing. Every car has its quirks and any great driver will tell you that mastering the quirks is how you wring out the best in a car. Being smooth is important in maintaining chassis balance anyway. You got a great car and take some time to sort out all of the fluids. It will help you connect with the car better. Can't wait to see your GTS when it arrives!

Just remember that the job of the syncro-s is to mesh the gears to avoid wear/damage to the gears.....The syncro's are sacrificial ...they are usually made from a softer material such as brass and/or are designed to be replaced due to wear instead of the more expensive gears...you can nurse the syncro's along with carefull shifting , but every grind of the gears wears on the expensive gears that is enough wear on the gears, then new syncro's will not fix the grinding issue, it will need new syncro's and gears... A different gear oil with viscosity/friction properties will certainly change the shift characteristics, sometimes for better or worse, but is not a cure for worn syncro's , PS;;; and if you pussyfoot around too long with a "slight grind" you will end up having to the replace 2nd gear, and the 2nd gear drive and driven gears are a matched set, so to replace the driven gear, you will need the 50 ton press and a full rebuild...$$$

Sorry, didn't read the whole thing. Matt Monson told me to run the Porsche transmission fluid. He kind of apologized and said that in the end the friction modifiers just seemed to work best in these transmissions. He's not your average transmission expert.

I don't believe in Swepco. That's just me.

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So it's syncros. The G50 gearbox in the 996 is hard to rebuild so any "professional" would not want to fix the box only partially and expose themselves to further problem down the line. You know, the 1) you fixed my gearbox and now I can't get in 5th gear, or 2) you fixed my gearbox and now it is still crunch in 6 months again. It's not finding an honest shop, it's finding someone who is willing to risk it. About that gearbox shop in Florida, years ago I had a lot of problem with a rebuilt 915 from that outfit. They throw some syncros in the gearbox and call that a rebuild. Be careful who you choose.

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When I drove Phillip's car it did not grind, but I am a bit more sedate with my shifts. My take is the synchros for 2nd gear are possibly worn a bit, but not so much that it is a problem. My experience is that these gearboxes always require a bit of a pause between gears, even my GT3 with steel synchros is not in a hurry to swap gears and I've had that car since it was a baby. So, while Phillip's transmission may not be minty fresh, it still seems to have a good bit of life left in it. Swapping fluids will certainly not hurt and provide a better baseline to judge the condition of the car. However, there are bigger fish to fry with respect to the engine (think IMS, AOS, and any bore scoring) that should get attention first.

Yep, it's definately a rhythm.