What suspension would you go with?

2000 Cab and the factory setup feels mushy. I am not looking for a buckboard but something in between. Better handling but also very streetable. What do you guys rec? I know this has been talked about ad nauseaum but I am stumped. ROW 030? Thanks Guys, Tracy

RoW M030 hands down! I had it installed about 6 months ago and the change was night and day. Got mine from Sunset Porsche for ~$1K shipped and then another $650 for install and alignment here in Vegas from the local independent P-Car shop owned by the local PCA chapter prez. Now if you want aftermarket then your choices are much more but for factory designed RoWM030 is your ONLY choice. Well not entirely true, you can also get the non-Row M030 which keeps the ride height constant at it's current 4x4 height.

How is the ride? The one time I tracked the car it was like driving a ford bronco, plenty of front end roll. Will this smooth this out and stiffen things up? Also how is the overall stiffnes compared to stock?

Just a tad more stiff than stock but MUCH more planted and that floaty feeling at speed is now gone. IMHO what the car SHOULD have come with regardless. Gotta love those US ride height requirements.

Oh yeah, about 23mm lower in the front and about 17mm lower in the rear. Factory claims 20/10 but I got more like 23/17.

Do you have a part number?

Depends, kit number is specific to year/tranny/trim.

how do I order it?

My H&R coilover kit feels great, but the customer service at H&R is pathetic, so I would suggest going with a Bilstein setup, since they have a shop in San Diego that can do overhauls and rebuilds on the dampers.

what about x74? it sounds like everyone is raving about it. Will it fit my 2000?

X74 is ONLY for the 02+. For the 99-01 your only factory option is the RoWM030. As Paul said, if you want aftermarket I would suggest Bilstein but if you want Porsche then the RoW setup is great. Inquire over at Renntech.org since Loren has a great tech site and will be able to provide you the kit number you need not to mention the link for ordering at dealer cost from Sunset is on his webstie.

PSS-9 here on my daily driven 2000 996. Like it very much. Ride height can be adjusted by a shop and there are 9 shock settings that you can adjust in minutes by yourself. PSS-9 is the best street/track setup if you drive your car daily. It is very comfortable in medium shock setting for street. Turn the shock settings to 1 or 2 and you got a trackable street car. My .02 cents. Kam

I second PSS-9's. Have them on my car and they are great for track and street.

RoW030.

RoW 030, no adjustments needed, works well on the street and the track. For track only h&Rs or similar Cup setups.

I'd go with PSS9s.. they ride just as soft as X74s and can be dialed in/out for firmness. It's always proved to be a great fit on the 996s and cabs.

Do you have a budget? Row 030 parts less than $1k. PSS9 is what, $2300 or so? Kirby, what's your current price for parts? (and install)? Here's a short summary of the differences between stock, US 030 and Row 030, with stock as the baseline for each: US M030 Sport Suspension Front Stabilizer 9.58% stiffer Rear Stabilizer 24.15% stiffer Front Springs 16.6% stiffer Rear Springs 28.2% stiffer Front Shocks (rebound) 21.1% softer Front Shocks (compression) 13.7% softer Rear Shocks (rebound) 26.1% stiffer Rear Shocks (compression) Same ROW M030 Sport Suspension Front Stabilizer 9.58% stiffer Rear Stabilizer 24.15% stiffer Front Springs 16.6% stiffer Rear Springs 28.2% stiffer Front Shocks (rebound) 8.1% stiffer Front Shocks (compression) 9.6% softer Rear Shocks (rebound) 36.1% stiffer Rear Shocks (compression) 15.2% stiffer Please note the revised damper rates from US 030. The Row springs are shorter than US 030. I chose Row 030 for these reasons: 1. It is factory engineered. 2. It is a complete system including sways. 3. Price. 4. When I sell my car, it will have Factory suspension, not "aftermarket" suspension. I am very pleased with the Row, and wish I had done it sooner. Understeer is greatly reduced, turn-in is improved, car is more stable throughout corner. Great ride on street and highway. Great street set-up overall.

The ROW 030 sounds pretty sweet. Where do you recommend getting it? Prices?

Suncoast usually has a good price on it.

Kevin made good points I had the ROW M030 on my last 996. The first ride was like Holy #$@! This is how the car should feel! I was amazed at the difference I did not think it was too rough at all. I will be going with ROW suspension again I plan on doing the install this winter while my wheels are getting refinished. Again you also get upgraded sway bars for that price. Autobacs in stanton installed my M030 suspension for $250 with an alignment. It was a great deal.

Roughly $1K shipped from Sunset Porsche in Oregon. Was turned on to them being a member over at Renntech.org where they advertise "dealer cost +15%". 9 times out of 10 I have got something cheaper (usually way cheaper) than most of the other dealers that we talk about here on the boards. Suncoast down in FL is another one that has good prices but their pricing is up and down. Some stuff is overpriced and some is competititve (or cheaper) than Sunset. The plus to Suncoast is they have a website with parts and prices that you can check out first. http://e-partssales.com For example, they are selling the RoWM030 for $1057 plus shipping. (a bit more than I paid to Sunset).

Great post Kevin - Another vote for RoW M030. Sandoval you got it installed for $250?!?! I paid almost a grand, the dealer wanted $1200. I bought mine from Get, but with the exchange rates Suncoast is probably the way to go.

Holy cow! $250??? I was quoted $1200 by a Cup Car tuning outfit here in Vegas, dealer wanted $1K and the independent P-Car shop owned by the local PCA chapter prez did it for $650.

Is there any reason/advantage for choosing the US M030 sport suspension over the Row M030? Particularly, if you don't plan on tracking the car at all. Just curious.

ROW is lower, looks MUCH better IMHO

I agree it looks better but I was wondering if there was any great difference in handling/ride characteristics. I am particularly concerned about scraping bottom of car entering/leaving driveway and over speed bumps.

Yes that's right $250! I highly recommend their service. They are like an Asian Car superstore... Wallmart for Ricer kids... It is the strangest thing the size of a large department store maybe 1/2 the size of a Costco. All of the cars in the parking lot were crazy looking Hondas, Nissans, Suburus, etc. You go inside and it is two stories of CRAP! Wheels, tires, Audio, Video, Exhaust, Suspension, Seats, Detailing, Off Road, Books, Toys, and so on. Anyway they have an installation side that has about 12 bays with a few lifts , oil pits, top of the line Hunter Alignment rack, etc. I have been there when they had a Hummer they were installing a SC so they do more then just alignments and oil changes. They charged me $150 for my PSE install. So basically you pay the ricer car rates! Cool bunch of guys that work there mostly young asian guys that really respect the P-Car and drool when they come in. I have had one mishap when they busted the bead on my 22" Cayenne 3 peice wheel. I drove home on it and by the time I got home it was almost flat. So I had AAA pick the car up and take it back. They fixed the wheel, bought me a new tire and offered to pay for 3 days of the cost of a rental car even though I did not get one. Stand up guys! I know they are big in Japan like a Kragen or Pep Boys. I highly recommend checking them out if you are in So.Cal it is also a fun place to check out on a Saturday.

The only benefit I can see is the ride height. If you are worried about scraping then US030 is the way to go, but 20mm or so isn't that much but ALOT in terms of visual lowering!

I have a set of US M030 laying in my garage. Anybody interested?

From a 2000 Coupe

No. The US 030 has much softer damping rates! You definitely want the uprated damping of the ROW 030!!

Appreciate the comments! I was going to pull the trigger on Row M030 based on comments stated here about the effects on the street ride but then I read the Panorama article and I started getting concerned about the ride becoming too low and stiff. I occaisionally ride through MD neighborhoods that utilize speed bumps and don't want to continually scrape the bottom.

It's not as harsh as it sounds. Trust me, if my wife can drive the car 50 miles round trip without a single complaint about the ride feel then you can be assured it isn't as bad as you think. Like I said, probably the best thing you can do for the car is this mod. Perfect balance between the street and track. And if you don't track, still a great mod.......better feel on the street and more planted. bye-bye floaty feeling.

I just installed the ROW M030 about 2 weeks ago and can say that you have no worries. I think the ride is better, believe it or not, than the stock suspension. The new sport suspension seems much better damped at any speeds over a crawl. At crawling speed (10mph or less), you feel the bumps a bit more - over expansion joints or pavement junctions. However, at anything above, the M030 swallows anything within reason that is thrown at it. This is in addition to flatter cornering, much less lift and bow, and quicker turn-in. I've also navigated several rather large speed bumps without any issues. My car was sitting at 26 3/4 front and 26 3/8 back. It immediately dropped to about 26 all around after the upgrade. I haven't measured since the first week and don't know if it will drop more. I installed the thinnest set of compensation plates when I installed the new suspension - that will give you about 1/8 of an inch of further lowering.

Porch, Where did you get it and cost?

Traycym, I bought through Suncoast and paid $980 plus shipping - it arrived in a couple of days with no problems. There are different kits depending on year, coupe/cab, C2/C4, and manual/Tip. I also bought the thinner compensation plates at the same time for about $7 each. I just went out and measured the height again and it looks like I'm sitting at 25 3/4 front, 25 7/8 rear so the thinner plates probably bought me a little lower ride. Looks great, handles great, highly recommended.

My 2002 C2 has the sport suspension on it. Code 030. I assume being new to all of this Porsche stuff that this is what everyone is referring to as the US M030? Can I, or should I change this suspension to the Row 030? Can this be done by springs alone, or do I need to change out the shocks also? Is it worth the effort? When looking for my first 911, I made it a point to find one with the sport suspension after driving many without this option. Seems to make the car much more interesting as far as handling. The only thing that I still notice at higher speeds is the front end seems to have kind of a floating feeling? Tom L.

Tom, Yes, that is the US 030. You can just change the springs if you wish, and you car will have a lower ride height. However, your shocks will not be matched to the shorter spring's reduced travel. Also, US 030 tuning is not as aggressive as ROW 030 tuning, and as such, most enthusiasts choose the ROW spec pieces. Personally, I would not go to the trouble and effort to put shorter springs on the soft US 030 shocks, although there are some who have done so (some have even put H&R lowering springs on stock shocks, though some have complained of bouncing ride). IMHO, the increased damping of the ROW 030 shocks is what produces the positive ride characteristics many have noted in this thread. You would not need to change your sways, however, as they are the same as the ROW sways. There is comparison data on the two suspensions in a post above.

Kevin, Thanks for the info. I think I will drive the car with the US sport suspension for a while until I get use to the feel of a rear engine car. After I track the car, then I will probably want to reconsider what I've got, and maybe go with the Row 030 set up. By the bye, can anyone tell me why I get a sensation of a floating front end and light steering when driving at speed? (75 mph and higher). Is this because of the deployment of the spoiler? Is there anything that can be done to change this? Or do I need to make any changes? 2002 C2 6speed Bare Bones, M030, PSE, PSM, 18" Lt Alloy, P-Zero"s. Tom L

The problem is caused by front end lift at speed. You need to adjust the ride height to rest of the world (ROW) spec. I believe US cars ride height is determined by law rather than factory testing. Your car's front end should be slightly lower than the rears for the aero to work propertly. ROW M030 or any suspension kits that allow ride height adjustments will help.

Tom, there are many others here who can speak with much more experience than I as to what is causing your sensation of floating at speed. However, I do know that these cars produce lift at speed, and that the automatically deploying rear spoiler reduces rear lift somewhat. I also know that the '02+ 996 has less lift than the 3.4L cars due to revised front and rear valence designs and improved undercarriage cladding. The most common alteration to further reduce lift for these cars is the Aerokit front bumper cover/valence and rear Aerokit "wing". These elements should reduce aero lift significantly, but I do not have any data to show how much. I would think a lowered suspension with appropriately stiffer springs and dampers would reduce the floaty sensation somewhat, but I'm not sure how much lift would actually be reduced by the lower ride height. I think you have a good plan; to get to know your car's handling and driving traits "as is" before beginning your mods. This approach will establish a baseline for you so that when you choose to do your mods, the improvements will be more satisfying.

My 2000 C2 had US M030 and the factory aero kit. You will get front end lift even with the aero kit and slightly stiffer US M030 suspension. I personally think the aero kit's rear wing is more effective than the front nose given the US ride height specifications. Adjusting the car's ride height to ROW specs will certainly help. Kam

The ROW M030 should get you the correct ride height or after market ride height adjustable suspension adjusted to at least the ROW ride height spec.

US sport spring rate are actually the same as the ROW m030, but they are longer thus the higher ride height. It is true that the US shocks are softer than the ROW ones, but you won't get that bouncing feel if you used the ROW springs with these shocks. The ROW shocks would help some handling as they are stiffer, but in general the US sport is not all that much behind in terms of handling behind the ROW. Since you plan to track the car and want to improve the suspension you would be better off getting a PSS9 or the X73/74 suspension because the ROW won't be much of an improvement. Some here has said that it does not fit the earlier 3.4 cars, but they do. See the newer 3.6 cars are slightly heavier and the suspension has springs designed to acomidate the extra 100-200 lbs. In general its not that big of a difference and they work fine. Go call Gert at Carewell and hell tell you that it would work. ROW M030 is best suited for everyday driving with enough tightness for thoes occasional track days. I like it because the height is perfect for driveways and speed bumps and it has the right blend of ride to stiffness. I do believe its soft for real track work. The lighter front end you are feeling is probably attributed to the rear spolier and the extra height of the US cars. See the extra 20 MM height will allow more air to pass under the car and produce more lift. You can add an aero kit, but for the cost to reduce the lift would be better spent on a new suspension.

Not sure that is correct, the pre '01-2's have a different frame configuration and weld points, x74 on an early car will stress this and PAG does not recommend it, (gert likes to sell parts with all due respect). You might get away with it on a c4 due to the stiffer frame, but still not great idea IMO.BTW the x73 is for the TT/C4S only, won't fit your car. I changed my C4S/US sport suspension out for the x73, very dramatic difference on the track, but I ran my US sport for awhile also, good plan dirt track. I got my stuff from braman porsche and suncoast.

i tracked w/ someone that has the x74 on a '00 and it works awesome. i think the x74 on pre-02s is the best compromise short of a full race suspension. i had the row m030 on my '00 and if i were to do it all over again, it'd be the x74. re stiffer chassis': i've seen a full moton suspension on a 996 cab w/ 800 lbs springs and nary a prob. - by comparison, the x74 is kids stuff.

My Porsche rep told me the 02 cars are 25% stiffer than my 00 Cab. He said to be careful with too stiff a suspension on my car because of this. I would have thought the x74 was a no go? Thoughts?

The 02 cars *are* stiffer, (and heavier) than the 3.4L cars. As C4S Surgeon tells us, Porsche does not recommend use of the the stiffer X74 suspension on the 3.4L chassis. Some parts retailers or tuners may tell you "it will fit", but ask if they will offer a warranty against chassis damage/failure. I think we know the answer to that question. By the way, a similar condition was seen with the 97 and 98 Boxster. Porsche limited the 97 Boxster to 17" wheels max. The 98 chassis was upgraded to allow 18's. 18's and even 19's "will fit" a 97 Boxster, and there have been those who have run them. There have also been reports of chassis/suspension failure from doing so. I chose ROW 030 on my 99 Cab, because I didn't want to chance damage to my chassis, nor did I want to stress the rest of the car and possibly introduce a bunch of rattles and squeaks by running a stiffer setup than recommended by Porsche. If it were a dedicated track car, then what the hell. Let the frame flex, and rattles and squeaks be damned, as they wouldn't be heard anyway. But my car isn't a dedicated track car. Actually, my car is 100% street car. However, if my car were an 02+, I may have gone with X74 (even for street use).

The chassis is slightly stiffer in the 02 cars because they added some braces and welded some positions better, but by no means a X74 suspension would crack the chassis. I mean take a good look at the PSS9 or the H&R coilovers they have at least similar stiff springs as the X74. The X74 is said to be about 40% stiffer then the OE soft suspension. The spring rate of the OE is about 200lbs in the rear. If you add 40% that will make it 280lbs in the rear. H&R sport spring while progressive rate has range of 250-295 lbs which means its about as stiff as the x74. I never heard of people having broken chassis from people using H&R springs. The fact is that the X74 was really designed more for the newer cars due to the fact that the spring rates were designed for the heavier cars and they did not want to go thru the R&D to make a specific rate for the older cars.

The rear spring rate for ROW 030 is 260lbs, so 280 for X74 is only 8% stiffer. That's practically neglible. However, if the 02+ chassis is 25% stiffer, that is significant, imho.

so is pss9 that much better than ROW 030? anybody take a ride in both?

That is a really good question. I went with the FVD PSS9's. Not like I'm going to try several first. All I can say is I'm very happy in my heavy cab with the PSS9. I would venture to say 100% better ride all around. I paid $1600 for the PSS9s.

whats the diff between FVD PSS9 and regular PSS9? all I've heard regarding comparison to ROW is that the PSS9 is a dual spring coilover shock that gives you both a better ride and much better handling regardless of leaving on the stock sway bars.... can anybody confirm this?

I think the price is the best guide here. The PSS9 gives you a good ride and adjustability if you want to go through the bother of adjusting it for track use. The X74 gives you a better ride than the US MO30 (at least in my case) but lacks adjustability. The ROW MO30 is a lovely street suspension that delivers P handling for occassional track days. In any event, they all are significant improvements over either of the US suspensions which are terrible.

[QUOTE=c70Pete]whats the diff between FVD PSS9 and regular PSS9? [QUOTE] Valving and spring damper rates.