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YOUR RESEARCHHow To Jack up a P-car
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Replace engine mounts it was clear
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When I replaced the engine mounts it was clear that they were way beyond their useful life anyway.
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Use engine mount as the lifting point, not the engine
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From now on, I use the engine mount as the lifting point, not the engine.
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The heavy looking lug on the motor case is most likely a point for jacking the motor only during removal.
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Ok guys, this seems to be a common question, and there doesn't seem to be any threads (that I could find) with concise information about how to properly jack up a 996/997.
We all know that if you jack from the rear jack-point (in front of the rear wheel), that whole side of the car will lift.
This enables a stand to be put under the front jack-point (behind the front wheel).
Do that to the other side and you have the fronts up.
Is this accepted as the "best" way for the fronts?
Rear:
Method 1: Jack up from the rear cross member if you have a low-pro jack.
Where is this? Can someone post a picture?
Then you can put stands under the rear jack-points.
Method 2 (not recommended?): Jack up from the engine, at the cast-in boss right behind the oil pan. (I found a picture of that). Then put stands under the rear jack-points.
How do you all recommend doing this safely for the person AND the car?
I'm fairly certain the jacking point mentioned in Method 2 is showing in the Manual as the proper spot to gack the rear of the car from. (to get it on stands anyhow)
It's what I use when putting the car on stands.
Andy
You mention that jacking it up from the engine is "recommended". By whom? Porsche specifically states not to use the engine for jacking. You increase the risk of rupturing your motor mounts doing so. Cross member is safer.
The method you described is fine for getting the front up on jackstands.
I have used method 2 to get it up on jackstands for the rear on both my C4S and my Boxster, I would say about 3 or 4 times and have never had a problem but I pray every time I do it. It doesnt seem like a natural jacking point. I would feel more comfortable if a tech or someone who does this regularly chimes in.
I should have clarified: I saw it "recommended" by other forum users, here and on Pelican. I think someone folks on RennTech too, but I can't find the one I had a mental image of.
I can't imagine it's good to jack up your car by the engine mounts, but AudiOn19s says he saw it in the manual.
Audi, did you mean the actual Porsche manual?
I read that as well. Your lifting the whole back of the car and stressing the engine mounts when lifting this way. The mounts were *never* designed with this much pounds per sq inch in mind. Your pushing the motor up against them until they hit the limit of travel and when there is no more 'give' only then will the mass of the car rise off the floor. There may also be some localized pressure applied to the casting (area where the jack is pictured) that may be unwise as well, (not sure if this area could flex or crack).
Unless you use a four point hoist or other shop hoist - the only jacking points as listed in your manual are THE jacking points as shown in the manual. All other locations are not recommended by Porsche and you are at your own risk doing it any other way.
The cross member would be better then under the engine - except for the safety issue of the car
sliding
off the jack before you can get the floor stands under it. It's 'mostly' safe, but Porsche's lawyers don't handle 'mostly' well in printed manuals!
Just saying...
It is possible to get the car on jackstands only jacking at the corners, but it incredibly dangerous given the twisting and shifting the chassis does during the process.
So, you have to decide for yourself if you want the car on jackstands--given only a floor jack to get it there--what's the safest and least damaging way to do it.
I have very little tolerance for people who say you CAN'T do something, who do not at the same time suggest an better method by which you CAN do it.
This is my process, which may be different from yours since mine is a little lower. YMMV, Not responsible, blah blah blah
1. Using the rear jack point lift the side enough to put 1 or 2 sections of 2x4 under the rear tires
2. Continue lifting until a jack stand can be placed under the front jack point of the same side
3. Slowly lower car onto front jack stand and so that the rear tires are resting on the 2x4 section
4. Move to the other side and repeat Step 1-3
5. Now, both fronts jack points should be on jack stands and the rears should be sitting on the 2x4s
6. This is where I lift the entire rear end from the rear cross member with my long and low jack
7. Lift enough to place your jack stands quickly, but safely under the rear jack points
8. Lower slowly checking the placement of the rear jack points on the jack stands
9. Ready to work
My Jack; Arcan Quick Lift Service Jack — 3 1/2-Ton, Model# XL35
My Jackstands; ESCO 3 Ton
I'm very happy with both. I bought my stands from Steve @ Ultimate Garage but he no longer carries them.
Note:
I would not try this method with anything but flat top / rubber jackstands
I agree.
Which cross member and where? What I see underneath look like they'll bend easily.
Oh yeah, and there's no need to apologize for your SV!
I recognized it in your pict, then saw your sig file about it. Lol!
Nice!! Thanks Whitey. Great set of picts.
Question: how high from the floor is your car, measured to the jack points (or, how tall are those stands)?
Question: do you have a pict of the cross member? Do you put the jack in directly from the rear?
BTW, love the clean garage.
Thanks for the compliments.
My C4S is ~25.5” from the bottom of the each fender wheel well to the floor. This is not the factory way to measure height, but this is how I wanted the car set up.
The stands in that picture are at their lowest setting; not sure what that is. When I did my X/Cat pipe install recently, I went
higher in the rear
. The C4S is rock solid on those jackstands; not a worry.
No pic of the cross member, but its easy to see. Peak down and its the big aluminum bar just in front of the engine, towards the front of the car.
I like it Jon, that bolt up top will definitely be good at keeping the jackpoint from slipping off. I dig.
You said you had them "made", but I'm assuming you bought the stands and modified them by adding the bolts, or by fabbing new post inserts with the bolt up top and the flat. I'd like to get a set. Can you direct us to their maker?
I always jacked the 996 up by the crossmember - the one between the engine and trans.
It is aluminum and you are jacking up around 2,000 lbs but I never had issue.
I always thought they were 2 totally different companies. I could no longer find the ACs, so went with the next best thing I could find for my needs; the ESCOs.
I have the low profile American Forge & Foundry jack that just reaches the crossmember on my '99 C2. It seems to be really well made and I've noticed that all the local Discount Tires have gone to these. About $220 shipped from Summit Racing.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1020/
There's not a jack made that will get to the cross member on my car at european GT3 height spec which is why I'm basically forced to use the mount on the engine.
In all fairness, I did have a collapsed motor mount at one point and had to upgrade mounts. Never had an issue since though.
Andy
Andy, if you lift the rear with the 2x4s, you really should be able to get to it - at least I can with my jack. If I don't use the 2x4s, I can't get my jack under my car, and the jack is only 3.5" tall.
Hard to tell from the photo how to put the jack on the crossmember? Do you go in from the back, and do you have enough room for the jack handle? And, is that crossmember attached to the frame?
Question - Since people seem comfortable jacking the whole rear from the middle of the AL rear crossmember, it would seem reasonable that each end of that same crossmember could support a jackstand. In that case, couldn't you simply jack up one side of the car from the rear factory jack point (just in front of the rear wheel) then place a jackstand under the front jack point and a 2nd jackstand under the thickest point on that same side/end of the rear crossmember, lower the car onto those two stands, then repeat on the other side?
Lifting a 996 by the engine lug to get the car onto 4 jack-stands is almost as controversial as "What’s the best oil?"
You probably saw the picture on Renntech in one of Orient Express' posts. I have done it that way for 3 years with no problems.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3404
I found a set close to what Whitey has, but they're $90 each. Here is a set from OTC racing (solid brand), aluminum, and look like they're take the center bold mod pretty well. Less then $80 a pair. I just don't like the area of the footprint; I'd like it a bit bigger, and not round. Hard to see how it compares area-wise.
Porsche's are tough to lift and the "real ones" can be lifted by the motor (because they are tough)
but if you try this with a water cooled one the water weight will cause the car to become unstable and result in an unsatisfactory lift as shown
This has been discussed as one of the reasons some people prefer the air cooled motors over the water cooled. Personally I think if you bleed the air out of the water the car will stabilize and a propper "lift" will be achieved
can anyone post a picture of the 'cross member' where it is safe to jack up the 996
I have been reading topics for the past 20 minutes and could not find a proper picture. Seems a lot of people jack up using the engine...
I'd prefer avoiding that.
Anyways any pictures of your rear jack up point would be appreciated
If anyone saw the thickness of the motor case casting, they would certainly NOT jack up the car using it. Stressing the case, motor and trans mounts beyond their design parameters is not a good idea. Nor risking punching thru the motor. The heavy looking lug on the motor case is most likely a point for jacking the motor only during removal.
The manual states only the 4 jacking points should be used. I always use a hockey puck between the point and my jack. When Jacked I place jack stands under the front points and on and area near the outboard end of the cross members. I use small squares of wafer board between the jack stands and the car so as not to compromise the paint on the jacking points or scar the aluminum on the subframe which could lead to stress cracking.
UGG
need we say this any more times -
DO NOT JACK BY THE MOTOR !
reasons are more than just the fact that you have a very heavy item supported on small points on a thin cast aluminum part that sost a lot of money and if you punch a jack thru the motor you are really gonna be pissed and poor - the motor mounts also cost about $175 ea and are designed to keep the motor from falling out the bottom - in other words when you lift with the motor the mount is what you are actually using to lift the car and it can fail - this is the main reason NOT to lift by the motor - I know some people have done it, but its stupid -
right where the engine and tranny mate there is a nice big beam to lift by - use that
Ed, I don't think you're helping with birthday preparations by posting the proper jacking locations for a non air-cooled Porsche. By the way, it was nice to see a recent post of your enhanced black 996 w/ a hint of aliens...did you find the vac. leak yet?
That's how I jack mine up - much cheaper to spend a little extra on a low-profile jack to get at this jackpoint. Wanted to get out of that whole discussion on jacking the car up by the engine...
Rudy
LOL
No but I almost burned up $100 worth of steak typing that in !!
LMAO!
no time to look at my car (but i managed to get the new motor mounts in :evilgrin) - much to my disapointment and continuation of buying **** I dont need... once I got them out i found out I already had the club sport mounts
- just like old times
Here's a pict, arrow is the crossmember. I jacked up my car from the side lift point, start draining the oil, then slowly let the car down over the oil catch pan to make it flat again to get the oil in the corner back out the hole, and get as much oil out as possible. I have to lift it up to start, cause cause there's no room for my fingers to remove the plug between the catch pan and the oil pan with it down.
I can't do this by lifting from the cross member either, since the oil catch pan needs to be where the jack is. Man, I can't wait to get a place that's big enough for a lift. That's going to MY house warming present to myself.
the thing I was trying to get across is there are many ways to lift and depending on what you are lifting for might require a unique combination (as stated above) but the motor is just not one of your options - I actually used the side lifts most of the time unless I need it up high, then the center crossmember and jackstands under the side jack points.
for oil changes my yard is flat and I have a curb to the street... I just hung the *** over the curb and didnt even use a jack.....talk about quick ! $300 for an oil change - I DONT THINK SO !
Curb! That rocks. Well, if I can't find a place with ceilings tall enough for a lift, maybe I'll settle for a little curb action.
BTW Ed, I only now saw your "lifting" post from back in Oct. earlier in theis thread. Lol!!
LOL! But 128 are for beginners. the 256 Crayola box is the Honey Money!!
Philooo: I take my used oil to local parts store, and always to the place I actually bought the oil; I feel that's only fair.
This is a neat idea. Is this a do-it-yourself modification or does it require machine work and welding. I'm asking because if you pay to modify an Esco jack stand at a machine shop, couldn't you just about buy those Jackpoint stands they talk about on the forum? Don't the Jackpoints have a pin that goes up into the chassis too? Anyone know what it costs to have those changes made if you don't know a shop that will do you a favor?
Main difference between the Jackpoint Jackstands and this model to start is the method upon which you lift the car. Jackpoint jackstands you use what the factory intended the consumers to use, the designated lift points. With the Esco model, you still have to fish around for a lift point under the car, potentially ending up harming to the car (wrong lift point) or God forbid, yourself. That is why the Jackpoint product is so unique.
Yes, the jackpoint jackstand caps to have a pin in the cap that will fit into the Porsche pin hole.
I just checked out the Jackpoint site and their solution looks pretty clever, but over $300 each.
http://www.jackpointjackstands.com/Home_It_Works.html
This is cheaper but just as effective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDz19...eature=related
They start at $289 a pair (either low profile or universal caps)
We do have a RL discount (PM me for details) and we are working on creating a group buy as well in the next couple of weeks when more inventory arrives.
Yes, you are correct. Black low profile is in stock (only two pair left in inventory, it has not been decided it more gloss black will be made in the future, I guess you can call it a limited run for now)
So if you were to place an order for (1) pair of stands you would enter 1 in the qty box. We understand that this can be confusing so we are working on cleaning up the copy on the site to minimize confusion. $329/pair on the site.
Any inputs on what to do with the hardtop if it is currently installed? I just got a cabriolet that did not come with an owner's manual thanks to the previous owner, he did mention I should loosen the front latch before attempting to jack up the car, which seems reasonable, I'm just wondering if there are any other precautions?
TIA
As you can readily see in these pics, I just leave the hardtop on whenever it happens to be on the car and I have to jack it up. Makes no difference.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-securely.html
Just thought I would add my experience. I have a stock 2000 996 C2 (no aero skirts, lowered suspension, etc.). I followed the advice above:
1) Lift from rear jack point.
2) Drop car with front resting on jack stand at the front jack point; one 2x4 under rear tire. Remove jack.
3) Repeat on other side of car. Remove jack.
4) The car is now resting on two jack stands at the front, and one 2x4 under each rear tire. There is enough room now to get my relatively bulky jack far enough under the engine to reach the cross member. Lift the rear of the car at the cross member, and then lower the rear on to jack stands at the rear lift points.
Car is very solid on the four jack stands. I'm leaving the jack under the cross member (not lifting) for security.
I have found a perfect solution to the problem of lifting my Porsche in a safe way! I bought one of these that is on the picture below. You mount it on top off your normal garage jack so you get two lifting points (!) on your jack. I don't know what it is called in english (I bought it in Sweden), sorry!
It adds a little hight to the jack so I have to first jack up my car on each side normally (using the rear jacking points) and put some pieces of wood under the tires (about 5"). Then I simply use the jack with the additional device in my picture below to lift the car:
In the front right where the suspension is bolted to the body on each side, and then put jack stands under the Porsche front jacking points.
Rear on each side of the crossmember under the engine (the one pictured above in this thread), and then put jack stands under the Porsche rear jacking points.
This way you can jack up your car to ANY hight without having the car swinging around while you are jacking it up! It is fast and it is safe!! It is also a very cheap solution (I paid about 200 USD for jack and this device)!
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
PS. I also use the devicee to lift my other cars when needed!
Robert
I started to lift the rear using the engine and both engine mounts leaked! It scared the crap out of me. When I replaced the engine mounts it was clear that they were way beyond their useful life anyway. From now on, I use the engine mount as the lifting point, not the engine.
Ken makes these for the 996's I may buy a set. Makes jacking so much easier.
He goes by Porken on the 928 forum and he sells lots of innovative products.
http://liftbars.com/
These are similar in theory to the one that I use, but if I wasn't clear in my previous post, I jack the car in the front in one go and then the rear in one go. The points that I use for jacking should be safe, I have seen that they used the same points for jacking when I was at a car inspection.
Robert
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
