2000 996 Cab - new top Twillfast?

I have the standard delamination of the rear window on my 2000 996 cab. I just spoke to a local top guy and he suggested replacing the whole top with "FSG Twillfast" which he described as the same German canvas as GAHH without the label. The price quoted was $1,300 ($750 for canvas & $550) for installation. Has anyone used Twillfast? any opinions are appreciated. I know I can get the GAHH for about $900 and he'll still do the $550 for the install. I'm just wondering if it's worth it.

I don't think it is worth the risk for only $150. If you're going non-OEM, get a glass window.

If its just the window coming out at the seams, ask them, or any other top shop if they can take the top off and sew it back together. That's what I had done for about $200.

I guess I'll have to hunt around more. Both places I called said to take the top off for the repair is the same labor and not surpisingly they discouraged it. I've read allot of posts on the subject and the new top vs. re-sewn window, opinions vary. If I could get it sewn for $200, I'd do that in a second. I also saw some links to Autotops direct for German A5 canvas which is supposedly the same as GAHH yet 1/2 the price. http://www.autotopsdirect.com/category-s/638.htm I've had the car a week now and I'm over 4K into it, this is the same car I told my wife needed nothing....might be driving around with the delaminated window for a little while longer! (car is garaged) Having two boats I told her I'd sell one and get the car and save us allot money (yes I knew it was a lie) but I'm finding out these P cars are nearly as bad as boats.

LI911 - I'm on Long Island (RVC) as well and my 2000 Cab has the same problem. If you don't mind, can you tell me which company gave you the quote? I've read that the going rate is about $700 labor for installing a new top or repairing the window, which also requires removal of the top. I've also heard (but can't verify) that it's best to have someone with Porsche experience/tools do the job as recalibration of the top is required. I repaired my plastic window myself just to get through the summer last year, but it's not an ideal solution. About P cars being as bad as boats - as a boat owner I would say no. You've just experienced some bad timing with your Porsche purchase. This is the first problem I've had with mine. Don't forget, that the top is about 13 years old.

Sure, the place is called Stingray County in Port Jefferson Station. He has a bunch of pics on his facebook site if you do a search. It looks like he started the business a couple of years ago (I could be wrong). I haven't been to his shop and can't vouch for his experience. I'd probably be taking a risk verses the more well known shops on LI, he sent me one pick of a Porsche he did, so that could be his only one.

Maybe we can look for a combined deal. I'll ask around.

yes, keep in touch. I'm going to try another place or two this weekend.

I did some more research today and ended up on a Mercedes Forum. I cut and pasted 3 posts off their board. Hopefully this will be useful information for other P owners looking at widely varying prices on tops: Here's the last instalment. I hope all this research will be of some help. I've had enough of it... There's many soft-top manufacturers and resellers, I did not research them all. Most practice what we call in French "flou artistique" in their statements, an artistical somewhat out-of-focus form of speech. Like calling the fabric "German, "factory", or saying "first-grade" plastic windows, etc. If you look up the sites, this form of speech is practiced by most, from the cheapest to the most expensive. A cat is a cat, and a dog a dog. There is only one replication, and only one, of the original OEM R107 fabric. It's called "Sonnenland Classic" made by Haartz. It's a two fiber weave (cotton-polyester I think) and too expensive-marginal to bother to copy as is. There are fakes. Some are good, but should be stated as such, and sold at a much lower price. There is currently a better fabric, the post-1994 or so Twillfast-Sonnenland A5 (Twillfast is the name used for US cars, Sonnenland for Euros), which has a black-only dobby backing ie a black-only correct pattern inner lining. Reputedlly, this lasts longer than Sonnenland Classic. The regular Twillfast with correct brown dobby is also reputed excellent. Sonnenland Classic is reputed to look nicer than Twillfast. I'm of the opinion that both Sonnenland Classic and Twillfast will last a long time, most probably so than the plastic windows. So, it's between price and looks for the outer fabric. Only one supplier confirmed that he used a high-quality brand-name plastic for his windows: ARO 2000. I think that this is a decisive factor: many fabric tops can be seen to be in VGC but for their windows. ARO 2000 uses "Ultralite" by O'Sullivan USA and swear by it. It's a product used by car manufacturers, not only aftermarket. OK, but it seems that Bayer Flexglas 9120 (I think, the one used on BMW Z8s) is better and suppliers should do some research. So, do business with whoever you want, but before you order, have it confirmed of what, EXACTLY, your top is made of. "German" and "high-quality" is not enough. My personal choice... I hesitated between ARO and Prestige tops. Unfortunately, I asked, no begged, for Prestige to confirm fabric and plastic used. They declined to name the products they use. Note that I stated in a previous report that they used Bayer et al. Flexglas (r) for their windows. That's before I discovered that Flexglas is like Kleenex, a brand name used to describe similar products. I asked Prestige to confirm they used Bayer et al. Flexglas(r) -an excellent product- and they declined. Too bad, because they did seem more thanOK, at a great price. But if they deem their clients unworthy of info, so be it. In the end, only ARO 2000 provided complete, precise information about their product. Mr. Georgi answered each and every of my questions. They get my vote, and they'll get my money. In closing: 1-you other soft-top suppliers, wake up and inform us consumers. 2- If you want to charge us more than 30-50% the average, tell us why EXACTLY. I'll keep you posted on my purchase and install of the ARO top, but it'll be awhile, it's winter for still two more months here in the Great Whit North. To <username>, Stayfast is a pefectly good fabric, some come with the dobby liner, not as good as Twillfast or Sonnenland. You should use Sonnenland if you want the real look. Personnally, I don't think that good brand-name fabrics will deteriorate very quickly: the windows will go first. Double-check that they use brand-name plastic for the windows. If they won't say, don't buy. To <username>: some top manufacturers use computers for patterning and cutting, use Sonnenland fabric, excellent quality windows, real dobby lining, poly stitching with HF fusing, and sell for less than 500.00 Others do presumably the same, but do not say so, and charge double. Others, while not outright lying, are so imprecise that anything goes. The top business is a quagmire. GAHH has an excellent reputation, but there is not sufficiently precise info to justify the price premium ________________________________________________________________________ _________ I hope this is my last post on the subject. I received an email from a French supplier who doesn't give a flying f*ck about the North American market. Here's what he says: there is Haartz "Sonnenland Classic" as the best fabric, that's it that's all. Anything that is not described as being "Sonnenland Classic" by name could be a Turkish-Polish what have you copy that is or is not of as good quality, you can know for some by touching, others you cannot. These fabrics must be sold at a very serious discount compared to Sonnenland Classic, a very serious discount. He also told me that the current iterations of Sonnenland Classic such as Sonnenland 5, Twillfast II, etc., are too stiff for R107 tops. So there you go, don't buy "German", "OEM", buy the real stuff. It's no more expensive

I am going to pick up my 02 that is getting a new gahh top installed this weekend.

According to the producer's site, the fabric is OEM equipped on the Audi TT, Alfa Spider, BMW 3, 6, and Z4, Mini, Chrysler PT and Sebring, Ferrari F430 and F360, Mustang, and Rolls Royce, so the fabric has some cred in my opinion. Is he producing the top himself? Haartz (the Twillfast mfr) doesn't make tops, just fabric. If the work is quality and he has references, and you like what he makes, I'd consider it. If it's not, he doesn't, and/or you don't, I'd order the GAHH. This is with the caveat that I prefer to throw money at a local/neighborhood craftsman whenever possible - if I can pay someone local and keep the money local, I'm going to go that way. If you don't have this inclination, the GAHH is probably the logical choice.

I found some posts on Pelican saying they bought from autotops direct ($550) and their credit card was billed from GAHH.

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Wyovino, I PM'd you with Gahh top and install pricing for a local shop.

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I guess I got lucky here in Austin. Jim's Top Shop is the shop the local dealer sends their customer's cars to. The local dealer doesn't have the right equipment to re-laminate the windows, so they recommended I take it to Jim's and they could sew it back on. I had them re-sew the top, and yes, they had to remove it to do it right, but they said they do this all the time as the de-lamination is common on 996s. This was about 5 years ago, so my prices might be skewed, but it still beat the cost of a new top. Good luck.

Best estimate I got for a repair was $600.

When I looked into this job hear in the Uk due to my rear screen coming away at the seem of the roof the only real option was a new roof with a glass screen. There were people willing to have a go at cutting the old plastic screen out and sewing a new one in but the consensus was that of a bodge job or at best not quiet right . Fitting a new roof should only take 4 hours at most, if it takes longer the roof is badly made or the fitter is learning . My new roof was bought from B.A.S hear in the uk and the quality is fantastic, they have reduced the size of the rear screen to aid closing as some new roofs will cause problems trying to close with this conversion so beware. They may not ship to the states but the website is worth a look http://www.car-hood.co.uk/content.php?nID=1 Make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing. My roof was fitted by an idiot the 1st time and looked terrible. I drove to the B.A.S main office and had there guys fit it the second time and it is as good as factory.

Great picture with the fabric off! Actually, great thread in general - this is very helpful information. I hope to have a few years - but will referring back.

After researching auto tops direct, personally I will not use them. A google search revealed lots of upset customers. If I was going to buy online I would likely use Duetto Motors in CA, good reputation and good prices (but not Gahh, they are made by E-Z on). That being said, I found a local installer with over 20 years experience (who came highly recommended by high-end body shop). He can do the Gahh top either plastic or glass window. The glass version price is unbeatable, Gahh must provide significant discount to distributors. Any local LIers PM me if you want details.

good info all around - I may be in the market for a new top myself here soon - thanks guys!

Adding an ebay link for tops. I have not used these guys and can't vouch for the quality but they do have allot of positive feedback. Prices look good especially for the glass tops. http://www.ebay.com/sch/autotopfacto...&_trksid=p3686

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let me know how you make out. one of the installers I talked to say he prefers the factory OEM vs gahh because it fits better...but he could be bsing Also did you have to buy new headliner? how do you reuse the glass? thanks

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I think it turned out fine. I haven't really driven it since i got it back since it's been so cold out. They reused the headliner and the rear glass. I think the glass might just pop ou when it's loose.

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So you had a new Gahh top installed and they re-used the old "plastic" window? That seems odd. The installer who looked at my top said the window in mine (which I think is OEM) is not zipped in, it's heat pressed hence the delamination issues. Most of us are replacing our tops only because the window is a disaster, usally both delaminated and scratched up, etc... (at least that's what I thought)

I have a glass window.

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2002+ use glass windows...

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Do you mind me asking what it costs you in parts and labor and what do you think about it so far?

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I like it, it looks very nice. It cost about $1600 installed.