Coolest 996 post ever...996 N/A...twin turbo bolt on upgrade

For those of you that don't frequent 6-speed online, check out this post..."Santa has me on the "GOOD" list....teaser pic" it is in the 996 section. I can't wait to see how it turns out. It looks like the ultimate N/A 996 upgrade. If anybody here knows more details, I would love to know more.

could you post the link please

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...easer-pic.html

Wow, pretty amazing stuff. I've seen turbo kits for Bugs, and have thought about one for my '62. That ought to be a blast, but I wonder about the details.... Is the stock high compression going to be okay with a Turbo, or are there other engine mods too?

Turbo lag is just one feature of that install.

I actually saw that on 6speed first. I started to read it but I couldn't get far. The thread reads like a bunch of 15 year-olds texting each other.

That is being done local to me. That is my buddy Berk's car. I wasn't supposed to say anything until he let the cat out of the bag. The owner of this particular shop has a personal GT3 with this TT setup on it. Pretty quick car.

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Another is that any little thing that comes out of the cat takes the turbo with it. But then, if you drive around with a 1" tire sidewall, you're pretty comfy living close to the edge.

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Wow! That's written by adults?!?!

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Yet to be proven I dare say

I've been following the thread over at 6speed as well. IMO, there are too few details to make an accurate comparison between IMA's twin-turbo solution, and TPC's turbo solution. TPC has been around for a long time. This is the first time I've heard of IMA. Both systems are very new. I may start a new thread here, or on the other forum, discussing the differences in the systems.

Hey Doug, that would be interesting. What range are these kits priced at?

The vendor just started a post over on 6-speed. The price is $12,900. I can't wait to see the video. I bet it sounds incredible.

Good thing I haven't said what's wrong with it because I'd look rediculous when it sounds cool

interesting. the turbos are after the cats. hmm..

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Not good. I thought the same thing.

I have been seeing these pics all over and that is simply one of the worst turbo setups I have ever seen. You want the turbos close to the port to capitalize on the velocity and pressure from the heat to spool the turbos. Instead of using a custom short tube header (optimal), they did exactly the worst thing they could possibly do. They started by leaving the stock manifolds on the car, which aren't even a tuned length header. Hence unbalanced pulses that not only slows spooling, but also loses efficiency. Then they left the stock cats and pipes before the turbos. This allows the charge to significantly cool before it ever reaches the turbo, reducing density and significantly increasing lag. In addition, all that tubing has to pressurized BEFORE the turbo can spool. There is no possible way you can get a decent exhaust to intake pressure ratio with this setup. To be honest, the first time I saw this I thought it was a joke. I simply can't believe someone would make something this bad and try to sell it. You want to see a properly designed turbo kit for these cars, looking at the Speedart kit out of Germany. The make their own headers. Turbos mount where the stock cats go. They have hi-flow cats mounted between the turbos and the mufflers. The turbo position allows easily routing the the air/water intercooler that merges the intake charge to the intake manifold. Note how short the tubing is from exhaust port to turbine wheel and compressor wheel to intake manifold. This is a properly developed, where as this rear mount/muffler delete concept is just a joke. This is also a an resource that can help guide designing a properly built turbo kit. Buy a copy of Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost," which is the bible for Turbocharging.

10 GT3, thanks for the information...so much for looking cool. I was hoping for a reasonably priced forced induction alternative to dream about. They lost me with the price and installation time.

Yah O2 sensors get false readings if they aren't relocated to right at the heads and header. Then I still have to wonder with the back pressure if the O2 sensors are going to be giving wrong outputs with the density being higher than normal for them. Maybe 7 or more times the distance from headers to turbo. Would sound cool listening to the turbo keep spinning up more and more with the back pressure while the dump valves are open wide. Only reasonable answer is U turn to turbo from headers and it's still too far away for real results. Best to have headers made to feed the turbo close. Those cats surely add volume to the back pressure volume. I just see all wrong looking at it. Lag in accurate O2 readings at rpms and higher pressures means? Yah Thanks 10 GT3. I just posted and will enjoy reading your post I saw after I hit post.

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Honestly, I wonder what kind of "installation time" they are talking about. They just weld a small pipe from the cat to the turbo and mount the turbo. They leave the stock headers and stock cats. Removing the rear bumper doesn't take more than 30 mins-1 hr max.

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So, for $5k more than this turbo kit, you can sell your car and buy a real 996TT!!

All it is is a take on the STS systems, with the proper turbos they have little to no turbo lag. http://www.ststurbo.com/

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That was my initial recommendation. Still I hope it works out for him, he is a good guy. -P

Remember the entire point of this is to make performance gains. Turbos capitalize on using wasted energy in an engine. That is, they use exhaust heat and pressure which is otherwise lost. This system is so badly designed that it can't capitalize on either. With the turbos so far away from the heads, the exhaust charge is cooled too much and from this alone you lose all the efficiency of the system. I think the costs for this system alone would easily justify looking at the TPC or EVOMS/VF Engineeiring/GIAC supercharger kits as alternatives. Because this turbo system was designed so inefficiently, you should actually make more HP at the same boost with the VF kit despite the power loss from driving off the belt. Also, take the look at the design of the factory turbo setup. Notice how short the headers are to locate the turbos as close as possible to the heads. If you look over time at factory turbo setups, this was one of the best designs in a production car. If I were to make a kit, I would try to use as much as already exists for the turbo. Go to someone like Fabspeed, Maxspeed, etc who already makes headers for turbos and have them make on with a flange to fit the Carrera heads. Then you could use a turbo exhaust. You still got to do something about an intercooler. 9FF has builit GT3s into 800+ HP twin turbo cars use air/water intercoolers, so they would be a good one to research for intercooler setup.

Already a very narrow market even for well engineered turbo and other power adder kits from name brands for NA 996, can't imagine for this.

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Measure with a Micrometer; Mark with Chalk; Cut with an Axe.... That is all I have to say about that!!!!

I saw a guys youtube last month where he did his own install of turbos. Some guy over seas. Wish I could find it again because I wanted to post it up for Mfletch. The guy even had his receipts viewable. Senile me didn't save it as a favorite and it's a conspiracy by youtube to hide it from me now.

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Have you ever seen the turbo routing on a 951? The engine exhaust routes all the way to the other side of the engine. Laggy turbo has more to do with turbo sizing, compression ratio, intercooler configuration and tuning. Rather than the positioning of the turbo-I'm more concerned about : -compression is very high for turbo application - not a lot of 'margin of error' built into the system - but will reduce lag -transmission that wasn't spec'd for this application - but if you treat it with respect might be OK. The few transmissions that fail appear to be due to abuse -overloading the cooling system (yes I know they add a 3rd radiator) but test this setup in 90+ deg weather with AC and see how it performs - if the turbo 996T has a similar setup, might be ok for all but the hottest days, but the 996T isn't dealing with the heat from the water-air IC. The setup is simple and minimal routing, which is good. Water-air intercoolers usually max-out pretty fast vs air-air ICs. Plus they dump alot of heat into the cooling system. But not sure if you could squeeze a air-air IC in there, easily. Interesting setup, will be interested to see long term reliabilty of engine, transmission and cooling with increased load. Hopefully the people that install these will keep up informed. Turbos sure are addicting. (putting $ away for 996T)

10 GT3 - STS puts the turbos right at the back of say, a Corvette with minimal turbo lag. They have nice bolt-on systems. I saw videos and was quite impressed. http://www.ststurbo.com/

If you’ve got $13k + $$ for all the supporting upgrades to spend, why wouldn’t you buy a real 996 TT?

Been reading this post since it started... This is my company's solution. Very different from the one initially posted. http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...sion-dyno.html BTW, i own and have read the Corky Bell book We decided to go the Turbo route after having such fantastic feedback from our single turbo Cayman System. I am hesitant to start a thread regarding this on this forum(since we are not sponsors) but i would be happy to chime in if anyone wants my/our opinions on turbo charging. Casey

Whitey, you are going to have to change your screen name. Congratulations on the new toy. When GT3 prices drop down to this level... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-Po...item2304c8c2ce ...it makes far more sense to upgrade a N/A car to forced induction. Like you, I would rather have a GT3 than a tt. I have driven several tt's and the power is definately addictive. With tt prices dropping down below $40,000, they also make more financial sense. Casey, thanks for sharing your product. Your company has a great reputation for customer service. I have always been interested in forced induction for my car because I am fond of my car...the color, the modifications, the sound, the handling, and the lack of payments. I have no intention of ever getting rid of it. A little (or a lot) more power would be nice eventually. For now, I realize that the weak point of my car is the driver, not the amount of power. I would love to hear your opinions regarding turbocharging a N/A 996...especially compared to a supercharger (since you guys offer that also). Is your single turbo system any more affordable than the other forced induction options? Thanks.

Mfletch, thanks for your interest... being that we are not sponsors on this board and this thread is technically about our product I would rather answer your questions via email or in a new thread... my contact is [email removed] Regards, Casey

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Actually the cooler charge increases density... The 944 turbo has a similar length pipe to the turbo, and does not suffer any significant lag.

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Have you ever driven a 944 turbo? I think the lag is quite significant. Not as bad as a 930, but a lot more lag than a 996 turbo.

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+1 mine had a significant lag but when it kicked in it was worth the wait.

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Yes I have owned 3, including building a 400HP one.