BEWARE!...bad experience with indy shop

The following is my personal experience and thought I should share it with other Porsche owners. WARNING The story ends with a torn hand brake lever, a crack in a $2000 wheel, 2 weeks without a car that was to take 4 days, $6000, and told I was stupid in the end. I took my 2004 996 to Renn Haus in Sarasota, FL for the following: 1. New Tires Installed 2. Short Shifter Installed 3. Left Window regulator Installed 4. Headers Installed 5. Computer updated with remap software 5. Cam cover leak 6. Ride hight adjusted on H&R Coil Overs 7. Spark plugs and an oil change I arrived at the shop on a Wednesday morning and was told I would pick it up Saturday ready to go. Guy drove me to pick up a rental car...great service ended there. I was told on Friday I could pick up the car Tuesday, but would need to bring it back to finish the ride hight issue, as they needed to order springs from H&R...no problem. I picked it up tuesday morning, paid a $5,000 bill, walked out to my car and the window was still not operating. I was then told they didnt have time for that either and would get to it when I brought it back. within an hour I discovered that the center console was not installed correctly after the short shifter install..and ripped the leather off the hand brake! In fact, the only things from the list that had been done was New tires and a short shifter...for $5000 and a week long car rental....and a torn hand brake. Turns out Guy had his brother in town and had not been around the shop to make sure work he said was done...got done. Guy was quick to apologize and with excuses as to why nothing else was done in a week...he refunded the $5000 until it was a complete and satisfactory job. A man standing buy his word!...short lived. I took the car back on another Wednesday to be done by Staurday. It has to be done Saturday because my wife and I have a special event to attend. "I give you my word, sir"! Go to the shop on Saturday...not done, pick it up Monday. I go back on Monday and he's very excited because he "did get it done Saturday, and took it home and drove it all weekend and its fast"...oh...ok Everything apeared to be done, he replaced the Hand brake with a new one from the factory...it sounded good...didnt seem like performance changed much, but he said it would take ahwile for the computer to map....then my left rear tire lost 8lbs overnight. I jacked it up and couldnt find a nail. Valve stem? Bead? Guy said I must have picked up a nail...took it back, they took it off and the $2000 Work Wheel had a crack at the bead area on the inside...he quickly said I must have hit a pothole....WHAT? Ive barely drove the vehicle and never had a problem until they changed the tire. Guy quickly turned defensive and said "Your stupid"! "you dont know anything, your just stupid". I told him I was done with RennHause, put my tire on and Im outa there...he started yelling at me and said "you cant come in here and call me an *******".. um...guy, I never said you were an *******..."yes you did, your a hot head"...um...guy, your the one yelling and calling me stupid...and I didnt call you an *******. "well you implied it" he said.... I called Work Wheel and they said they could have a new inner rim made but would take a few months....now here I sit. $6000 later, told I was "stupid" and without my daily driver....WOW I have never had such a horrible experience. PROCEED AT RENNHAUS WITH CAUTION

UPDATE #1: This is the shops reply to my post on the PCA website. I particularly like #6...evidently our "Older model 996's" aren't worth his jolly's... Yes, Larry is correct. It was a horrible experience. I apologize, understand and sympathize with his frustration. Have you ever had a project or job go bad or wrong from beginning to end without any reason? 1. Yes, the car was here longer than the week expected. However, there were two unexpected problems. The headers ordered were mismatched in the box when they arrived. Three days to get the correct ones in again. Not in RENN HAUS’ control. The apparent upper valve cover leak was not the valve cover but the Vent Line to the oil separator above the valve covers. Three days to get the part from Porsche. Not in RENN HAUS’ control. 2. Yes, we tried to just order springs from H&R in an effort to inexpensively fix Larry’s suspension problem. WE tried to work through TRG but H&R was non-cooperative at first. After three days they agreed to talk to me and review the pictures we took of the suspension. The result was that the springs were correct but that something else was wrong with the installation as the coil-over’s are adjusted to the top which allows no dampening by the shocks. We tried this in the effort to save the client money as opposed to just replacing the coil-overs with a better solution like Bilstein PSS9’s. So back to the option of replacing the front and rear coil-over’s to repair the problem. 3. Yes, Larry was charged incorrectly by a temp we had working the desk in my absence. However, the bill should have been $2,000 for completed work instead of the $5,000 charged incorrectly. Immediately we credited Larry’s card for the full $5,000 and did not charge the $2,000 due until the job was complete as an apology. 4. Yes, the emergency brake leather got caught on the console cover. However, I did not hesitate to order a new one from Porsche Germany that cost $500 and replace it at no charge. 5. Yes the car did not get done by 5:00pm the next Saturday as promised. It was done at 6:30pm. We stayed late to finish it. 6. Yes I drove the car home that night but not all weekend. I drive every car we tune or do major work on to assure that the work meet’s my standards. The car was back in the shop Sunday morning. I have owned and drove many Porsche’s from street cars to race cars in the last 38 years and no longer get my jollies out of driving an older model 996. 7. We have used the Softronic flash and headers on many 996’, 997’s, Cayman’s and Boxster’s over the years and Larry is the first one to say it didn’t do anything. All other customer’s have reported much improvement. 8. Yes, his expensive wheel does have a stress crack. But when I tried to explain that there was nothing RENN HAUS did to cause the crack Larry raised his voice, stopped listening and accused me of bull****, that he was through with me, put the tire on, he was out of here and he would tell the world about his bad experience with RENN HAUS. I tried to reason and calm him down with no luck until I finally lost my temper and called him stupid. He then called me on my name calling and related that to him that he called me an ******* (figuratively) and then we were both off to the races. Yes, I’m human and shortly after apologized for my unprofessionalism and am not happy with my name calling. He further opined that I was just a business man and had no expertise. Therefore, I asked Steve Jones, my senior technician with 35+ years of experience with high performance cars and wheels, to explain to Larry what had happened. Larry cut me off and said he did not want me to ask Steve! So I left and allowed Larry to talk with Steve. More than once through this experience Larry has chewed me out with no respect and there is a point where I stop taking that kind of behavior from anyone. 9. As for his cracked rim. As mentioned previously the coil-over’s that another shop installed a long time ago were modified and adjusted as low as possible so there is no dampening from the shocks. This is absolutely wrong for his car and we discussed this from the first time he brought the car to RENN HAUS. The result of this is that whenever the car has gone over any bump, pothole, railroad track or similar item the impact is not dissipated by the shocks as designed but is transferred to the wheels and other suspension components which can transfer into damage to those components. Could this be why the wheel has a stress crack? Again I apologize to Larry for the problems incurred in performing this work and with humility I apologize for the name calling. The work was all done correctly and to the high standards of RENN HAUS but unfortunately they were not performed in the timeframe that Larry had hoped. Sincerely, Guy Covington President RENN HAUS

Update #2: I spoke with the engineers at work wheels who have viewed several high def pictures sent to them of the crack. They have stated that the position, size, and shape of the crack was "without question" caused by the tire installation (pry bar or incorrect use of a machine) NOT a pothole. No disrespect to Steve, but if a man with 35+ years experience can rip the leather off a handbrake....i guess other mistakes can happen too...like cracking a rim. This is the first time i have heard anything about incorrect or custom install of the coil overs. In fact Guy said that everything was installed correctly... Just an aggressive set that lowers the car for track use. Thank you Guy for admitting that I "figuratively" Called you an *******....because those words...nor any other name calling words ever left my mouth. This is the second time you have had to appologise for your unprofessional attitude and poor service from yourself and your shop. While it is appreciated, the facts remain the same.

All I can say is DIY!!!

WOW oh WOW.... I always suggested Vortex or either Suncoast or Carlos at Bert Smith.

Your right Doug...DIY! I do probably 99.9% of everything on my cars...and have for years. But for once I thought I would "treat" myself to having someone else get dirty for a change. NEVER again. Not only di it cost $6,000 but I just spent $1800 on stock wheels to ride on till Work Wheels can get the crack repaired...AND the left window is squealing when I roll it up (had them replace the window regulator)...uggghhh!

You should also post this issue on the local Yelp board.... Not all our fellow owners are on this site.....

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Anyone that has done a SSK install wrong(like me) can tell you that it's easy to rip part of the handbrake if a.) you are in a hurry and careless. b.) you are too lazy to push back the seats all the way or take them out preventing enough wiggle room to get the center out without touching anything. Sounds like the guy was in a hurry and/or took shortcuts. If all those things did happen out of their control, why didn't they call you to keep you updated? Also there is a BIG difference between $2k and $5k. Did you question the bill at any point or get prior estimates?

The estimate for all the work was to be between $5000 and $6000...the confusion caused by the posts above is that when I picked up the car the first time and was told everything was done but the suspension...(when in fact nothing was done but the installation of tires and a short shifter) I was charged the total bill of $5000. When I quickly realized that it wasn't "done" he refunded all but $2000 for the work that was done. After he apologized profusely, I gave him a second shot...paid another $3000+ when I picked it up the second time and the rest is history. I really wanted this to be a great experience and "treat" for myself....very very depressing :-/

Him calling you stupid was wrong not matter if you are or not. I think he combatted you very well. Sadly I deal with the general public everyday and I know how things can go wrong and it really not be anyones fault but have an unreasonable client. I cant sit here and say wow, or how sad..... They tried to save you some money and I can tell you I always get screwed when I do that. the wheel being cracked? You are in a he said, she said there.. Call your insurance company. Thats what they are for. What do you plan on gaining here but maybe getting your self in to a slander lawsuit? Your best bet would be to stop this childish non sence and just dont go back....

Your absolutely right kyle... Guy and the rennhause staff, i appologize for being a childish, general public, unreasonable client. I will just call my insurance company and have it replaced.

What a nightmare. This is why the dealership is often the preferred option for me. Every small shop that I try to build a relationship with ALWAYS turns into me being frustrated. At the dealership the people are nice to deal with, nice shop, latest/best tools and with what random garages charge per hour these days.... the dealership is only maybe about $30 more per hour. I dont know for sure if they would install a short shift though at the dealership though..

6k is big money. Money that I would add to and buy a 997. I have limits to mods, but I could reason with some good ones. I like the blk on blk!

My name is Guy Covington the owner of RENN HAUS. I have driven and raced Porsche's for over 38 years. My reply in this post was cut and pasted from another forum without my approval. The other forun moderator removed Mr. Harness' post after other members challenged his claims and his responses became inappropriate. Further, there were other post made by me on that forum that are not included here that showed proof that Mr. Harness was advised from the first time we inspected his car that the car had been lowered to the point of having no shock dampening which could cause problems to other components. Including wheels. Additionally, the location of the crack in the wheel was on the other side of where the tire changer engages the rim. This is a clear case of placing blame without proof or responsibilty and manipulating the information to support ones assumptions. Check out our multitude of % Star testimonials on our Google and our web page if you wish to see the real ability and service provided by RENN HAUS. Thank you.

As always in life, two sides to every story!!!!

I know there are two sides to every story, but in my experience these things can usually be prevented with good communication. I will always understand that things can be out of a shop's control, but when they don't provide timely and honest updates on what is happening I get very uncomfortable and lose patience.

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How do you mount tires on a wheel yourself?

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Crow bar and a 5lb hammer. Granted this probably works better on tractors than on Porsches, but it is possible.

I do not think changing tires is a DIY for most people! My experience last week at the dealer was totally different. I droped the car off on Wednesday and told it could be picked up on Friday afternoon. The service advisor called me at least 3 times with updates and said thursday afternoon, it was looking like they would need to Monday, was that a problem? It is all about communication! Which I believe broke down on both parties parts. BTW the service advisor called me a couple days later to make sure everything was ok with the car. I am very happy with the place I have my car serviced.

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http://www.harborfreight.com/semiaut...arm-90589.html

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Next thing you'll tell me is I need to make my own tires. Some steel wire, and a bunch of rubber...can't be that hard . Seriously though... I agree with communication being a huge factor. I like indies, but usually they are small time shops with less staff than a regular dealer. For example, the same guy is a mechanic, manages billings, parts, and customer service. I don't expect the indie experience to be the same as a dealer, and even more so compared to a high-end dealer like Porsche. However, I do expect it to be the same (or better) where it counts...which is in the repair quality and lower cost. I also expect indies to provide out-of-the-box lower cost solutions to problems vs the "by the book dealer". If I'm unsure about a indie/dealer, best to test them with a small job. See if they perform to your liking, and then go from there. As for the wheel issue.... Honestly, no matter who you go to, you will have a hard time getting them to admit they cracked your wheel. This admission of guilt gets exponentially more difficult as the outfit gets smaller. Then again, it's not like we've ever managed to get Porsche to admit to IMS, RMS, inter-mix, etc . I do believe that for $6K of work, they should have enough margin to work with you to make you happy. My theory is you gotta make the customer happy, especially in a bad situation...make it a break even deal worse case for you internally.

A positive, long term relationship with a good shop and its owner are crucial for Porsche ownership unless you have a very strong mechanical skill set, lots of spare time and some very cool tools. I have been using the same shop in Raleigh for over 10 years. They have come through for me big time on a few occasions, and I think I partially funded their expansion into a new facility a few years back. It's a two way street in terms of communication and reasonable expectation. This thread seems to be a cautionary tale in several ways...

Forget who's right here and who's wrong....the above listed services amounted to $6k? WOW! I do most of my own work, but I've farmed out tough jobs, or stuff I just didn't have time for, but these are huge repair bills! What's wrong with taking your 911 to a good tire shop? I've had fantastic service from my local Big O Tires, as well as competitive pricing. (They'll match Tire Rack's prices)

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More BS! I was NEVER challenged by other readers of the suncoast porsche chapter blog, my post was removed because they didn't like the negativity of the back and forth between Guy and myself. Guy also posted that he didn't get any "jolly's" out of driving "old" porsche's like my 996...so why are you defending yourself on the 996 board Guy? Regardless of Guy feeling he needed to "give permission" to "cut and paste" comments from the other blog...he just admitted they were his posts. Bottom line is, in my own experience, the job was a hack job at best. His continued claim of the decades of experience is odd considering he later told me he "is just a business man" who decided to open a shop 3 years ago and was not in the industry prior. Secondly, his hot head attitude of which he did apologize for...both times he treated me like a dog, continues to throw around claims of how experienced he is is just another reason to BEWARE! Anyone who wants to see his work first hand is welcome to come see first hand.

AND... "...Mr. Harness was advised from the first time we inspected his car that the car had been lowered to the point of having no shock dampening"..this is true and the reason why he was hired to raise the car...which he didn't do. He claimed it must have been "modified"...but after he sent pictures to H&R because they couldn't figure out was he was talking about...they told him the coil overs were fine! That they were as they designed them! But somehow with all his years of expertise...alas he never raised the car. "..which could cause problems to other components. Including wheels."..is absolutely just not true!