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YOUR RESEARCHEBS Racing - rebuilds M96 engines for $9K
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adjustments
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Reported cause
the main problem was all the adjustments that were required and the fact that there was a hiccup in the engine when variocam was activated..
Leading evidence: 'adjustments' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'adjustments' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust increases as well and conversions' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Reported cause
We cannot say for sure it was the LWFW that was the cause, but others that have had the same issue helps to point that way.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Just a few months ago in my personal car, I replaced the AOS for ~$85 +40 mins of my time, and yesterday did a clutch, my cost was around $600 for the whole clutch kit and took about 3 hours.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I then changed the MAF and air filter and it felt stronger.
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Suggestion
I don't go into this type of repair often (because as I said, when you can get a whole engine for $2-3k, what's the point), but if you really think there's an abundance of these blocks, it would be worth my time.
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Suggestion
So far the options have been limited and it is enevidable that in time (as more people begin to repair these motors as opposed to replace) the repairs will become more widespread.
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Suggestion
So far the options have been limited and it is enevidable that in time (as more people begin to repair these motors as opposed to replace) the repairs will become more widespread.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Just a few months ago in my personal car, I replaced the AOS for ~$85 +40 mins of my time, and yesterday did a clutch, my cost was around $600 for the whole clutch kit and took about 3 hours.
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82 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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Outcome without a verified action link
Most of which was waiting for development of a lightweight billet crank which ultimately did not work out.
nice, I have my doubts as to what exactly gets rebuilt and I am sure there is no R&R labor - but cool....
we have a saying at the shop
"you pay for what you get"
I guess what I am trying to understand is exactly how many hours it would take to disassemble and reassemble a M96 engine. Everything else is cost of parts + that labor rate. These guys are able to do it the cheapest so far....
you cannot repair intermix if it is the result of a crack cylinder wall. You have to replace the block and that requires removing the crank cradle (aka complete teardown)
I have an idea how long it takes and @ $10/hr plus parts they are loosing money if its a complete rebuild (IMO)
I think you guys are making a bigger deal out of these engines than necessary.
There's a 2001 C2 motor @ AutoFox Recyclers for $2800, and a rebuilt 1999 C2 motor at Mazda Porsche Parts in California for $6200. Also, fixing a cracked cylinder should be trivial for a machine shop + a sleeve. Keep in mind when you look at parts prices, you see what "list" is, shops can often get parts MUCH cheaper. I remember buying (factory) low end bearings for around $110 when list was well over $1100, yes 10x cheaper, back in 2001 or so.
Just a few months ago in my personal car, I replaced the AOS for ~$85 +40 mins of my time, and yesterday did a clutch, my cost was around $600 for the whole clutch kit and took about 3 hours. Most shops would've charged around $2000 for those, doesn't mean it costs them $2000.
+ 1 on the labor time & cost, I bought some of the parts for my engine rebuild (see 3.2 - 3.6 build pics on Boxster forum) from Don Weaver @ EBS & found him to be good to deal with. If anyone is considering having a engine rebuilt call or e-mail Don @ EBS & ask what new parts are included in the $ 9,000. Some company's are advertising "rebuilt engines" with gaskets being the only new parts used in the engine. I do NOT suspect that EBS does this.
Ahmet, you know I like and respect you but you are not in touch with reality on the inner working of the M96 with your statement of having some machine shop replace the sleeve = trivial - I wont argue, its just a fact of the design - if it was easy, somebody would be spitting out M96 cases for cheap by getting them for free and making enoough money to buy Hawaii or some other little island
I like you too. Could you tell me what's so special about sleeving an M96 motor, I'm happy to learn something new here. Hartech will do a single cylinder repair/sleeving w/out a problem...
My point here is that IMO there's a lot of fear mongering here. I've rebuilt many engines, and to me the M96 isn't that special. Get me a free block w/a cracked cylinder (or several of them if you can), I will weld the crack, put a sleeve in it, and split the profit with you. I don't go into this type of repair often (because as I said, when you can get a whole engine for $2-3k, what's the point), but if you really think there's an abundance of these blocks, it would be worth my time. I imagine there is not.
RE: Air oil separator, it's an easier job on the MKII than the MKI, I think it took just under 40 minutes, from underneath. I've made a post about it before, I wouldn't recommend doing this w/out a lift, or for the "home mechanic".
on an M96? Must be one talentaed fella, I am not metalergist but the materials used from the factory are not that great and most shops that I have heard of dont replace with the material so you end up with one replaced with a differant material? that doesnt sound like a good way to start - than the shape is quite unique and the way it is ut into the base materal with cutouts and holes for installing the wrist pins... simple? OK
I thought the same thing till I was in there and saw how easy the wrist pins go in, the craddle build and chains, again, not rocket science but without special tools and instructions that dont exsist and torques - sequences not found by any means other than discovery... good luck
there is somewhere...Porsche has knowledge of where/how many unless they are just welding them up and turning them back out to be installed in the next unsuspecting customers car
Look I am no expert but in 3 years of spending more time at the shop than I care to admit I have learned a few things. These motors can be fixed, parts are expensive, labor aint cheap, knowledge is king and a **** poor repair will bite you in the a$$
No going to discuss the ins and outs of why a shop might charge $2k for a clutch but there are reasons for things, if it was easy and money to be made in bucket loads there would be 40 Porsche repair shops in Seattle - and there isnt - plus there is only one shop that I know of rebuilding M96's - I think there must be a reason, could be risk management or lack of understanding... I am guessing a little of each.
I dont buy the weld it up and off to the races approach though. We see race engines and street cars, if things are not right they fail - end of story
Take a look at the Hartech website (UK) and you will see that he is. He has documented a lot of his findings with respect to M96 issues and cylinder ovality in the pdf files which can be downloaded from his website.
Here is one of his guides (there are others on his web)
http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%2...20part%204.pdf
It is a good bit easier on the MKII, but a PITA none the less. My post didn't say a whole lot other than that I did it from under with a lift and it didn't take long. You have to work with bolts you can't see, precise ratchets also help. Otherwise I'd recommend going from above/pulling off the driver side intake runners, which is the "book" procedure, and takes a few hours. Apparently soft/small hands help.
ivangene
, the lokasil material/treatment is not unique to Porsche. I've rebuilt my first liner-less aluminum block when I was a teenager, and put 60k miles on it. Alusil is in wide use (VW/Audis, BMWs, Mercedes', and of course Porsches). Sleeving an aluminum block is certainly not rare, GM sleeves aluminum blocks by the millions. Shops around the world do, since practically all lokasil (and the vast majority of alusil) cylinder bore increases will be accompanied by liners. Hartech does it on M96s, even on an individual cylinder basis, w/a warranty and they're not the only ones.
Well this is good to hear that after 12 years some shops have ways of fixing these. I will pass along the info and have some round table (aka across the top of a garbage can) discussions.
The thing I am interested in is heling keep cars running and avoiding those $20k repair bills. So far the options have been limited and it is enevidable that in time (as more people begin to repair these motors as opposed to replace) the repairs will become more widespread. Still in this day in age $9k seems like one BIG step down in price which leads me to think some steps in the "rebuild" may not be as thourough as they could be. - I suppose it all depends on what was wrong with the donor motor
I am all ears and will be discussing these thoughts with others, thanks for the links
We noted 8 years ago that these engines would be repaired and thats when the development to support shops and those efforts began. More and more shops are losing work that could help keep them afloat because they are not willing to learn about the engine and diversify away from the aircooled Porsche engines that they have the most experience and confidence with.
My training classes stay filled at both an enthusiast and professional level and the Worldpac WTI program is looking into having me offer a class at the 2012 WTI Expo as well.
Shops are taking too long to open up to the fact that this engine is something they MUST learn about if they want to stay in business in the 21st Century.
I think what is the shock here from the OP... is that they can do it for 9k.
Myself, when the time comes I will be heading to your shop Jake... Go to the source when you want it right.
^ If you are looking at it this way, it probably makes more sense to sell your running engine and source a blown engine for Jake to rebuild. At least you can get $5K + for your running engine and pick up a blown core cheap.
Things are still changing. TPC racing is installing a 3.8L into a 3.6 L 996 because a 3.8 L costs $13K vs $17K for a 3.6 replacement. You still pay around $17K the time TPC adjusts the ECU and other parts in the way of a 3.8 but you get a 3.8L and save part of the install cost.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...w-3-6-17k.html
There are so many different options now
That makes absolutely no sense what so ever... Why would I sell my motor too rebuild a blown motor... Use what I have until it goes then have Jake build me a Great Stock Class race motor... You go ahead an place a 3.8 in your car... I will just buy another car with a 3.8 aready in it!
Actually you would probably be better off rebuilding yours BEFORE it blew. You could do oil samples and cut open oil filters regularly to come closer in determining when it may be close to blowing and then catch it if you really wanted to get all the miles out of what you have.
So whats a 3.6 cost to rebuild these days Jake ? I had a customer that had priced one out with you and said it was substantially more cost to rebuild with you than the cost of just buying one directly from Porsche.
On the 3.8 conversions, some people like the 3.8, some the X51, no real right or wrong, just what works best for your situation and preference. TPC isn't the only one doing those conversions, many are. On the cheaper price, Porsche from time to time offers specials on some engines, I am guessing to clean out old or what they consider excess inventory, some dealers will pass some of that savings on to move some merchandise.
You have a point in staying within your racing stock class regulations. No one ever said porsche racing was going to be cheap.
I am throwing this out here because some people are emotionally attached to their current car. A 3.8L upgrade will probably keep up with the 6GT3 and it is cheaper than selling your existing car and buying a 6GT3. No one knows if the balance of the car will be affected though and you will take a beating in terms of resale on your 3.8 L upgrade.
I like the 3.8 and X51 upgrades, more power is a good thing ! ECU's are easy to reflash to adjust for the increases as well and conversions when picked properly are easy to do.
As for rebuilding the "stock" class racer, check the rules carefully, some rebuild techniques may not be allowed or in the spirit of the rules. Not that in PCA you'd ever get torn down that far..... but I just like to be fair.
The 3.8 upgrade to a 3.6 car is interesting and doable. They both have the 7.8 DME that controls the VarioCamPlus functions. However for all the 3.4 VarioCam engines/cars this is not really a viable option. The 7.2 DME is quite different from the 7.8, fuel systems are different, Canbus, etc. etc. etc.
As for the cost of the Porsche reman and Jake's engines, the Porsche engine is still basically a stock engine while the list of upgrades and fixes that Jake has made to the engines he builds go on and on. You are really comparing apples to oranges here.
Doug... Jake is working a way to run a variocam Plus motor in an early (non plus) car.
from the things I have heard its not overly expensive with off the shelf items but still in the development phase...I dont know if he is doing it for fun or plans to make it available to the public.
They already have Variocam + with the 7.8 DME. It's the 99' cars with the older 5.2 DME that have to create a system to activate the Variocam +. They advance by 45 degrees compared to 22 for the 3.4 IIRC.....
I've spent the majority of my time internally with the M96 engines. We don't do conversion work, I prefer to make the original engine larger, more durable and higher performance and have an end result of absolute vehicle/ engine compatibility..
If someone request this we certainly do.. We throw them away otherwise as our engines never use the OE parts that are removed for upgrade.. Look on Ebay and you'll not find us selling any of those pieces :-)
I scrapped 22,000 pounds back in May when junk prices hit their peak.
Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread from its original topic, so I'll go back to my Dyno room now :-)
Is this a "service?" No, its an upgrade. Have you ever kept stock sways after upgrading to GT3 sways so the option to go back to stock and part out upgrades remain possible? Who is to say perfectly good functioning engine internals are not worth something to a salvage yard? Keep banging your head.
I will bang my head against Moronic attitudes all day long. When I rebuild anything motor related the old parts are that "OLD PARTS" they go into the trash... just like Jake does. SWAY BARS are the exception... as well as certain other suspension parts that are not "TRUE WEAR ITEMS"... shocks go into the dumpster also!
You are a interesting person whom seems to enjoy stirring the pot! I am sure you have a box full of spare parts that you swap in / out ...
Guys we are in the presence of Greatness here! stand an listen to the wisdom..
Some of the systems and years can be mixed while some can not as JR already stated.
I understand Jake has a number of mods/updates he does, it would seem that EBS and others are also doing the same or similiar mods. As well, Porsche has done their own updates and the engine you buy from them today is different than the old engine you will be removing.
We seem to have a estimated price of $9k from EBS, and we all know what the Porsche OEM engines cost, so whats the price range for a typical Jake Raby engine ? Jake ? Or maybe any of Jake's customers can chime in with what the costs and upgrades involved were ?
This is a no issue with the 3.4-3.6 eng conversion..... the Vcam+ can be triggered by an external controller (programmable at that)... a few have done these conversion before. Cable throttle however is a diff story...
My prices start at DOUBLE what the EBS stated prices in this thread are. The parts that comprise my engine cost more than the 9K stated in this thread.
But, this is an EBS thread, so before I am reminded of that we shouldn't discuss my program any more, because it isn't fair to the OP or EBS.
In a few days my Rennlist sponsorship begins, so I'll be able to post prices and etc without issues, then we can talk about what I do, how I do it and why. They finally came up with a sponsorship package that favors my budget so I plan on maintaining this sponsorship as this is a great board.
There are different price points for different purchasers and different engines. These engines vary greatly in cost and preparation. One must explore all the options and ask very detailed questions before purchasing any engine. I know of one company that doesn't even replace the AOS during a rebuild, they just "clean and inspect it". These are the types of things the purchaser must understand before comparing engines of differing costs that may appear to be similarly prepared when they couldn't be more different.
Too many people do not do their homework or understand enough about the engine prior to purchase and that bit of ignorance can result in a skinny wallet. Familiarize yourself with the engine, else you can't comprehend what you are buying. Some companies don't want you to understand, that way you don't ask the questions that shows how little they know about the M96 engine or why its so cheap.
there was a guy on here over 2 years ago that went with ROOCK performance who did something similar... he said it was a nightmare and I followed his progress for over 9 months but stuff just wouldn't work properly... the main problem was all the adjustments that were required and the fact that there was a hiccup in the engine when variocam was activated.. it was not a smooth surge as per a normal engine but definitely a noticeable kink in the powercurve...
he ended up selling the car because of frustrations...
I agree, it's never been a smooth transition. It can be done, but the correct way is to change out the DME to the 7.8 which requires the wiring harness too, and pedals, gauge cluster, gas line return, etc...
My motor rebuilder just built a 3.8 out of a 3.4 which will run with the cable TB and 5.2 DME. Great build with all the right parts, but it will be limited by that ECU. Still, I can't wait to see where it dynos. Might be a GTS4 killer motor for me with tons of torque....
yes the whole point is to save some $$$ while using your stock 99 DME and associated parts...
a 3.8 from 3.4 motor? I thought the 3.4 cylinder walls aren't thick enough to go to a 3.8? i'd love to see the dyno graph on that puppy with the stock 5.2 DME...!
A 3.6 Boxster that started in Georgia and then to Houston ? I actually got that car after Roock built it to try to sort it out, once he had moved to Houston. Then after some repairs making it better but not complete he sold it and then I got to see the car once again from a different owner.
If the same car, it was an early Boxster with a later 3.6 motor with Can different DME etc, Roock tried all kinds of things to make it work,aux control units, relays, etc, etc.
We made good with it after reprograming quite a bit but still had a little stumble where it couldn't compensate fast enough in the timing. The car needed the new harness, dash, key, DME, etc to make it all work properly.
I never read any info on the shops new parts included in the rebuild. I'd think crank and piston bearings along with vavle guide seals. Then it should also include the cam guides material replaced with new stuff. I'd imagine anything not standard to the rebuild needing fixing would get a phone call with prices to fix. Anway if it is a major overhaul it should also include a new cam chain piston rings and head gasket. The heads should be checked and flushed with a lathe also.
Several pages of this and you are still missing the basic understanding on this thread subject. The answer is below. If you still can't understand it. No one here can help you.
Not everyone wants a $20K engine. Having an option to rebuild this engine with half that budget is the discussion here. There will be private individuals with economic constraints to shady car dealers who will choose to rebuild an engine back into a running state and continue to drive it or turn around to sell it regardless of build quality. I am not saying EBS does it. Actually no one here knows what EBS did to get the engine running again.
Jake took a methodical approach to the M96 engine because he saw the business opportunity in it with Boxsters, 996 and early 997 production numbers. Its a no brainer if you are in the Porsche aftermarket support business to follow this trend.
that's the proper way to do it... full conversion of harnesses and DME's... an expensive proposition for the early 99 owners.... but it does offer a value proposition for somebody who has found a blown out 02+ car and wants a new 3.8 in it...
Exactly. And with the exception of a slight stumble at approx 3600 rpm that car really hauled a@# !
All this engine swap talk is really just a bunch of old hot rodders in modern day. Car guys have been swapping and upgrading to larger more powerful engines for years, it's just become a little more complicated with all the electronics.
I am just an old hot rodder at heart, only I work on P cars now.
My car has the full 3.8 Raby package on an 3.6 X51 base. The PO had the system adapted with RPM triggered units for the Variocam. It works great! At about 3400RPM it feels like turbos kicking in and it stays that way until 7500.
I did that too, only I went from 2 stroke dirt, to 4 stroke dirt, to 750's, to 1100 and 1300's and then to Turbo charged 1000 cc monsters for the 1/4 mile. - And people wonder why I don't get scared driving around a racetrack in a fast car.
My favorite bike was my 1978 KZ1000 Z1R TC, it was a 180 hp turbo street bike for street racing 1/4 mile mostly, alcohol injected for cooling and then I could raise the boost to ??? hp level. I was way too young to know any better.
The modern bikes of today are much faster and better, but when you launched the old bike and the frame started twisting while the bike started going sideways as you'd be leaning all on one peg to compensate for the sideways, there was nothing else quite like it.
I checked their website and lightly browsed. Didn't wonder upon any break down of overhauling and what's included.
I do ride a K6 GSX-R1000 and the little 911. I could care less about the jeep grand cherokee loredo right now. All of you guys hot rodding around are why the rest of us get in trouble
I'm just a mild manored guy trying to ride my sportbike and crawl along in my 911 doing the speed limit.
Happy holidays and drive safe out there.
Thats great ! Any dyno charts available ? I presume Jake did all his or LN Engineerings updates as well. New sleeves, tensioners, chains, IMS, etc ? How much did it all cost to do ? Time frame to do it ? Obviously you are quite happy with the results. Was this an early car he upgraded to the newer CAN ?
Thank you in advance for your input.
I try to keep all my trouble confined to a racetrack now, although I may have infractioned a speed limit or two on occasion. And the only bike I ever ride now is a bored XR650L , that I can say will do 100mph+ on fireroads !
I started the same way 2 stroke dirt as we (my brother & I) raced MX thru the 70's, 80's (stopped when I was at Unadilla ...
www.unadillamx.com/
... & shattered my left knee during my 3rd pro season). My father is a master with the 2 stroke race machines... taught me everything I know about 2 & 4 cycle motors. (still waiting for him to teach me everything he knows). Helped him build race bikes for other people... hop up Harley's (my XR will pull wheelies all day long), BSA's, Triumph's, Honda's. My favortie was the KH 500... spent many a days racing around on that thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltusler
My car has the full 3.8 Raby package on an 3.6 X51 base. The PO had the system adapted with RPM triggered units for the Variocam. It works great! At about 3400RPM it feels like turbos kicking in and it stays that way until 7500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastviking
Thats great ! Any dyno charts available ? I presume Jake did all his or LN Engineerings updates as well. New sleeves, tensioners, chains, IMS, etc ? How much did it all cost to do ? Time frame to do it ? Obviously you are quite happy with the results. Was this an early car he upgraded to the newer CAN ?
Thank you in advance for your input.
So did this just die with no answers ? I, as well as many others I am sure, are curious of the costs and time frames for such an upgrade ? ltusler ? Jake ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastviking
Thats great ! Any dyno charts available ? I presume Jake did all his or LN Engineerings updates as well. New sleeves, tensioners, chains, IMS, etc ? How much did it all cost to do ? Time frame to do it ? Obviously you are quite happy with the results. Was this an early car he upgraded to the newer CAN ?
Thank you in advance for your input.
So did this just die with no answers ? I, as well as many others I am sure, are curious of the costs and time frames for such an upgrade ? ltusler ? Jake ?[/QUOTE]
Due to some extenuating circumstances the rebuld took quite awhile. Most of which was waiting for development of a lightweight billet crank which ultimately did not work out. I'll let Jake speak to current conditions on timing. Your patience will be rewarded if he does the rebuild.
We got 340RWHP on Jakes dyno after some break in time. The engine has all of the LN Engineering and Flat Six Innovation upgrades and enhancements. The ECU has also been worked over by Protomotive. The car is still running the 99 version of the CAN and 5.2 on the ECU with a cable throttle. The original work to the system was done by Autoedge in Minnesota. All totaled including a new Spec stage 3 clutch and PP, shipping, a lovley week in northern GA in Jakes shop I'd put the cost around 30k, expensive for a street engine, but relatively cheap for a race engine. We are sure there is more in the engine and are examining intake and exhaust opportunities.
Feel free to PM me with any more questions.
[email removed]
Only 5 months till our first BIR event!
Holy bleep, 340 to the wheels is huge. One question, did you do anything with the 3.4 cable throttle body? FVD sells a slightly larger version but it's only marginally larger. Just curious as that would seem to offer large HP gain potential especially to a built motor like yours....
Just to be able to compare apples to apples, what chassis dyno did Jake use to get the 340RWHP ? What exhaust and intake were on the car when the 340 RWHP were done ? Cats also ? Pump street fuel or race fuel ? And this was a 3.6 X51 motor that had been enlarged to a 3.8 liter correct ?
Thank you for taking the time to answer,
Viking
Due to some extenuating circumstances the rebuld took quite awhile. Most of which was waiting for development of a lightweight billet crank which ultimately did not work out. I'll let Jake speak to current conditions on timing. Your patience will be rewarded if he does the rebuild.
We got 340RWHP on Jakes dyno after some break in time. The engine has all of the LN Engineering and Flat Six Innovation upgrades and enhancements. The ECU has also been worked over by Protomotive. The car is still running the 99 version of the CAN and 5.2 on the ECU with a cable throttle. The original work to the system was done by Autoedge in Minnesota. All totaled including a new Spec stage 3 clutch and PP, shipping, a lovley week in northern GA in Jakes shop I'd put the cost around 30k, expensive for a street engine, but relatively cheap for a race engine. We are sure there is more in the engine and are examining intake and exhaust opportunities.
Feel free to PM me with any more questions.
[email removed]
Only 5 months till our first BIR event![/QUOTE]
I've built and bolted on an after market 90mm TB and it ran. Have not had a chance to dyno it though. The ECU tuning is a ship out deal so the turn around time and cost is prohibitive. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a plug and play ECU for the current wiring harness before I go further. Also thinking about modifying a DBW GT3 TB but idle control is a problem. In the current set up its based on air pressure difference between the front and rear of the TP. I did look at the FVD one and may give it a try since its pretty resonable on price and I have a core and will give another MM or so of diameter. I think I did the math once and it came out to 5% or something.
Jake uses a DynoJet.
The intake is stock.
X51 headers with open pipes out the back. Its LOUD!
Race fuel 102 octane unleaded.
Yes a factory 3.6 x51 upgraded to 3.8. Reason for rebuild was the crank broke after 10k of track miles on a LW FW.
For those interested, the FVD throttle body for the cable 99' 3.4 goes from 74.6mm to 76.4, a increase of 1.8 MM or 2.5% if I did the math correctly. They charge $411. for their larger TB with an exchange.
I would imagine that 90mm TB is a blast. When you get it on a dyno please let us know the results. May I ask where you found it as I'm extremely interested....
PS: the 996 GT3 TB is 76mm, while the 997 GT3 is much larger at 82mm. I have friends who've put the larger TB on their street GT3's and gained 20rwhp....
Just remember that bigger is not always better, when tuning intakes, TB's,exhaust, etc the velocity is many times more important than the volume. Big can produce a big hp number on the dyno (top end) sometimes and produce a car with no torque or pull when you need it. - Which would not be disisreable. I wouldn't think a 90mm TB on a 3.4 L 996 would be a good thing.
Of course it's still hard to fight that inner desire to hear someone say "oh, thats too big".
What Lon didn't mention is when his car put down 340 at the wheels the clutch was slipping... It was an aftermarket unit that required a break in, which wasn't done before the chassis dyno eval was done.. When I say it was slipping, it was really slipping! It would not have made much more power to the rollers, but I'd think it was losing 10 RWHP.
But, by today's standards Lon's engine is already outdated :-)
JR,
All it is is a 90mm billet TB I got off of Ebay. Its a bit of a Frankenstein. I had to redrill the mounting points, add a cable bracket and pipe in the idle bypass valve. When I say it ran I mean it blew balck smoke at idle but cleaned up off idle and revved fast! I did't push it at all for fear of going lean. More of a small proof of concept that a running part.
That is the same result I got on the math for the FVD TB.
I might pick up a GT3 82mm TB and see about adapting it back to a cable, just may have to have a rough idle thats all!
Onefast,
I agree completely. Although my particular engine could do with more air. The heads are 3.6 X51 and have been massaged by one of Jakes preferred local partners for even more flow. Currently the TQ is 280 from 4.5 to 7 and pretty flat all the way across.
If anyone out there has any ideas on this, bring them on!
I built that engine more for torque than net HP output.. I wanted Lon to have the power without the necessity of continuouus red line driving, to build longevity. Longevity is always my primary objective with any project engine.
Not you silly !
I was curious about the power curve in the 340+RWHP big torque motor that Jake built. I haven't seen a dyno graph for that one.
And once I've settled in with the changes on the car for the jump we made to the new class I will share my dyno with you, and anyone else that shares.
I though this was for Jake? I'd be happy to send you my last Dynojet report. It was in Feb and I only hit 256whp. I then changed the MAF and air filter and it felt stronger. I also switched back to 91 octane from 98. I may go to T-hill in 2 weeks. If so I'll jump on their Dynojet there to compare. I really expect I'm around 270whp which is what I weigh my car for with NASA....
so YOU'RE the guy who's car with the LW FW destroyed the crank!
10,000 track miles, eh....so just curious. How did it run with the LW FW before it imploded?
sean
It was originally for Jake but it's always an offer for you too.
I have been playing some and have some new dyno numbers. You need to work harder with your 3.4, I hit 270 RWHP with the 3.2 Boxster motor. Needless to say the 996 is going up too. I'm in search of a number around 350 for the 996, think I can get there ? ? ?
The original 3.6 X51 engine was at 314 RWHP when it imploded. We cannot say for sure it was the LWFW that was the cause, but others that have had the same issue helps to point that way. Today after the rebuild we are at 340 RWHP and 279 TQ with the DMFW. I'm certain that 350 is possible, but we didn't build mine for max HP, I need reliability and longevity so we kept it toned down. I was running open headers and short pipes. I got ahold of a custom Magnaflo 2 in 2 out and used that this last weekend at BIR, the TQ felt much better off the corners and could still manage 150 or so down the main straight. Talked to a few local tuners and we agreed the increase in back pressure would certainly help that. Its a bit quieter as well but does not sound as good as the open pipes.
