996 Carrera vs 4S

Hello all, New guy here trying to decide what the 4S brings to the table from an owners perspective. It looks sportier to my eye but I�m sure there is more to it than aesthetics. Thanks in advance!

You�ll get a lot of thoughts here but the best piece of advice I can give from someone with access to both is go out and drive each and form your own opinion. Aesthetically the c4s is much better looking with the wide body, turbo aero, rear reflector strip and most have full leather interior (only some c2�s have full leather and it�s a must in my book). The C4s also has turbo brakes, turbo suspension and awd. The first two are excellent, the awd is what truly makes the C2 and C4s different driving experiences. I do prefer the raw feel of the C2 and plan to convert my C4s to rwd at some point. And then, I�ll feel like I have the ultimate NA 996.

To name a few, the 4S adds: Wide body rear end Turbo front and rear bumpers Turbo tail lights The signature reflector strip between the tail lights, only found on the 4S All wheel drive Larger brake calipers and rotors found on the Turbo, with red painted calipers Turbo suspension components I'm sure there are many more smaller changes, but those are some of the biggies.

I think the best idea is to buy one of each. I love my 04 C4S. But i also want to buy a 99 C2. back to reality...... the above 2 post point out the obvious. I think the only other thing to point out is it seems to be the the C4S holds a higher price tag and may hold better resale in the long run.

C4S is heavier than a C2 and has the same engine. Heavier with equal HP doesn't exactly say sportier to me. Now looks yep, she is a looker with those hips and bumpers. But sportier she is not.

I had a 997C4S and my 996 Aero at the same time. THe C4S was spectacular for day to day driving in Seattle weather but it couldn't match the experience on the track....From my experience, two wheel drive gives you more opportunity to take advantage of the rear weight bias than the C4S. As far as the looks of a 996 C4S its hard to beat. However, and Areo C2 (like mine) is close up there in looks...just missing the wide rear.

It depends on what you're looking for. I wanted to get into Porsche as a daily driver and had friends with that had damaged theirs (boxsters) in the rain on city streets with aggressive cornering (i.e., spin out hitting a curb or worse with no PSM + ordinary mortal driving skills (just like me!)). This made PSM a requirement for me, so I wanted MY2000+. Then I discovered the 996.2 C4S with not only good looks but all wheel drive to boot, so even more assurance. Last, the back seat was a bonus for me since I little kids at the time and we could zoom around together. 14 years later I still love it and wouldn't trade it for the newer models that I've driven (not that I can afford to!). I do think it has a bit of understeer which I compensate for with some trail braking but not so much that I want to give up the confidence of the AWD in the weather. My wife daily drives an Audi A4 Quattro Avant and a 987.2 base boxster. The Audi quattro is amazing in the wet but I think my C4S is better. I can fling it around in the rain and have more fun than anyone around me. Her boxster is supremely planted on all 4 wheels but I still find I've got more grip and excitement in the C4S (OK, I've got like 70 more horsepower too...). So it comes down to what you really want...

If you're a looker, get a C4S. If you're a driver, get a C2.

These are surprisingly different cars to drive. The C2 just feels lighter, more nimble and great to flick through the corners. Even my C2 cabriolet feels quicker although the weight is very similar. That having been said, the C4S is a dead sexy looking car with arguably the nicest rear end of all time. Love it for long high speed runs. Feels very stable and planted especially on wet days. With no power advantage and more weight the 4S is definitely the car for style and stability, not for performance.

I think it should be noted though that the C4S is no slouch. It’s true that it’s a heavier than the C2, and that the steering feel is different. That said, it still offers a true sports car experience, and a true Porsche experience. The differences in acceleration and/or track times will be measured in tenths of a second.

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I think this sums it up well. Having driven both 996 C2s when I was looking and a C4S as my daily, I can say that the C4S is definitely a true 911. The C2 is a little lighter on its feet and more nimble, but to me the C4S feels like its glued to the road and looks gorgeous.

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FWIW, this is why I got a C4S. It's just preference. Besides the look (which I do like better) I like feeling stability in the car no matter what I throw at it. I also have never been able to notice a difference in acceleration; They both have the same pull feel to me. Most of the Measured 0-60 times between a 996 C2 and C4S are negligible differences (sometimes even having the C4S on top). They are both enough to get you in trouble real quick on the street if you aren't careful. All that said, I don't track so maybe that would change my mind...and I completely get why someone would want a car that feels lighter and a bit less stable.

Thank you all for the quick and thorough replies! Keep them coming. Not sure its helping with my decision though as now I want one of each. Maybe I can get one, let my wife drive it for a bit so she wants one too! She is definantly a "looks" kindof person so the 4S sounds like the better of the two in that regard. Anyone have a 4S they are looking to sell?

I suggest to read these 2 C4S reviews: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125769 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125785 They have a more comprehensive description than what typical surfaces from forum opinions.

All 911s look awesome. The C4S vs. C2 looks debate comes down to personal preference, but most seem to prefer the wide body and turbo bumpers of the 4S. I'd say just go with the one that you like, and can afford. At the moment C4S will cost a bit more, but should also re-sell for a bit more. As many have commented, the C2 is lighter and 2 wheel drive and generally (overwhelmingly) preferred as a track car. BUT the C4S did post faster lap times back in the day (it is slightly heavier but it also benefits from better brakes, suspension, all wheel drive, a wider rear wheel base, and wider tires in the back) - so the argument that the C2 is just simply faster or better isn't necessarily true. Clear as mud now? I'd say just get the car you like and don't worry about splitting hairs. All of the 911 models are incredible sports cars. Others have mentioned this, but I think it is worth repeating. If you love the C4S look, but the C2 drive train - look into a C2 with an aero kit. Those look incredible and retain the sleek narrow body design and 2 wheel drive.

I have owned both: a '99 C2 and a '02 C4S. Overall, the C4S was my favorite car I've ever owned (I regret selling it to this day). It was the perfect mix of performance, exotic looks, and drivability for me. With that said, the C2 was more fun to drive . It was lighter, had a more analogue feeling than the C4S (cable throttle, no traction control, factory LSD, RWD) and just felt different when throwing it into the curves. So, drive both and see which one gets your jimmies ruffled.

LOL on some of the comments of folks saying "if you want looks go for a C4s if you want performance go w/ a C2" or "the C2 is better on a track" -- let's not replace facts with opinion. While the C2 is fractions of a second faster to 60, the C4s (according to this Motorweek article comparing the two on the Nurburgring) is a full 4 seconds faster around the North loop. At the end of the day, both are very capable cars in most environments, and performance is roughly the same on dry pavement. Sticking to my original statement, they do however drive quite differently, so the only way to know which is best for you is to spend some time behind the wheel of both. As an aside, the linked article above is a good one if you wanna learn more about the 996 production range.

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Well... actually, as jllphan has mentioned, the 4S is faster on the track than the C2, and also in one so demanding like the Norsdschleife (not by far, though), so... a little bit of sportier also it is

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If you're tracking I'd get a C2 since it's lighter, more direct driving feel, fewer moving parts to fail, cheaper brakes, cheaper tires, etc. etc. Just a simpler and more "pure" car, which are good things in a race car. If you're driving on the street I'd get whichever one you like the looks of better.

You Tube The C4S "A version for those who don't know what their doing" "It's fine if you like that sort of thing" Perfectly describes the C4S. But everybody always likes what they have better. Fortunately I've had both and did not prefer the C4S. The C4S I'll just say... zzzzz boring. Sold it after a few months. Have had a C2 X51 for a year and it is awesome, plan on keeping it a long time. It's actually fun to drive vs the C4S.

The 4 brings a big repair bill to the table when the front diff goes bad. Call the shops around you and ask if they even rebuild it and how much it will cost. For me it's not worth it.The less options a Porsche has, the better. I have a Subaru for the snowy days.

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You could always just remove it to convert to a C2 if it went bad and you didn't want to pay to fix it. I might be worried about subtle changes in handling then but if you're worried about potential future costs, that is one option. IIRC, it's the same as the turbo so that would also be an issue for anyone looking at a 996 turbo.

I’m an a$$ man. The back end is sexy. I had a C2. I have a C4S—both ‘04’s. I haven’t driven the 4 other than a brief test drive last week. I sent it to FL so I won’t be able to wring it out on IN SR58. I didn’t track my C2 and won’t track this one. But, I don’t believe there will be any real difference around town. We’ll see. I know the C2 felt a little light in the front at 100 mph. (Empty interstate run...) I’ll make a dash across 75 in a couple weeks and see. TC

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FWIW, someone I know (not me obviously because I don't go over the speed limit) in a C4S did 115 on an empty interstate and felt as planted and as stable as a house. It felt as comfortable and effortless as a Honda Accord doing 60 and if I, I mean that person, didn't see headlights approaching in the distance I have no doubt I they would've gone up to the 130 mark.

Both the C2 and the C4S are amazing to drive and their full capabilities are beyond the skills of 99% of the people on this forum unless you're signed as a factory driver with Porsche Motorsport. Pick the one that YOU enjoy driving and looking at the most. Because you will spend equal amounts of time doing both of these activities! Personally, I chose the C4S for its looks and also because I preferred the heavier feel of the steering with the AWD. Also, the X51 engine is a blast.

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Wow, C4S with X51, that's gotta be one of the best variants I've ever seen! Sounds really special. But I don't need it, because .........as you wrote.......I'm definitely and comfortably in the 99%.

I own a C4S and I love it. I've gotten it to more than double our local highway speed limit here in NJ and it is rock solid and amazing. Would have loved to have one with the X51 package but that didn't work out. Amazing car. Can't beat the looks either.

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Wow, X51 engine too. That's great. I bought a regular C4S a few weeks ago. My main reason was I like the looks. Don't get me wrong, for the right price I might have bought a C2 or C4 but I got a good deal on a C4S so I pulled the trigger.

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Isn�t there just as much of a difference between a C2 and C4S as there is between an mk1 and mk2? The later cars should be just as fast, if not a tad faster. That�s typical Porsche behavior for you. Same with adding AWD. They did it for performance just as much as they did it for convenience and marketing. That�s why you can eek out a tad more performance around the �ring. The C2, though is just about identical and a talented driver can make it just as fast. Either one is fine. The early 99 and 00 C2 cars have dual row IMS bearings, are light, simple, no glovebox, mechanical throttle linkage, mechanical truck and hood latches, no cup holders, and Variocam. The late C4S cars are widebody and look much better in my opinion, and have Variocam Plus. The torque curves are noticeable on the later cars - they feel stronger. The early cars have a smoother power delivery and slightly higher redline, which is needed to match the lower power compared to the mk2. I would drive both and judge the car on its its own merit - how nice is that particular example, what is the color combination, how clean is it, how does it feel to drive, condition of the mechanicals, maintenance records, etc. When it comes to address the handling differences, make no mistake, most of that comes from the alignment and tires. My C2 is so planted you can�t break it loose no matter what you do. Some C4S are loose. It all depends on the setup, which varies car to car for the exact same car, just as much as AWD vs RWD would. Good luck - they are great handling cars no matter which version you end up with.

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That's a sweet looking C4S!

It�s mostly looks that differ. I test drove an 04 C4S and it felt slightly less nimble than the 99 C2 I ended up buying. My 99 actually feels a little quicker (maybe just placebo effect). Supercars.net lists all P cars 0-60 times. They have a 99 C2 at 5.2 secs and an 02 C4S at 5.1 secs. Too close to feel a difference.

Porsche buyer's guide consistently lists C4S as the "996 to buy." I love my C2 Cab but your photos are phenom! /X3

quick question. Does they have a same doors? will one fit another?

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Parts shops online are listing the same P/N for doors for both Carrera and Carrera 4S, so I'd assume yes, but would believe it if somebody has experience that says no.

Thanks so much for posting those links. They are very informative pieces.

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I remember reading that the body panels shared were only the front hood, front fenders and the roof pannel. It makes sense that the doors are slightly different to match the different wider rear fender. But I can be wrong.

Can always take a 4S and remove the prop shaft and front diff/axles and have a good looking wide body RWD 996.

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We need a definitive answer! Photographs shot down the side of the car really show the car swell out suddenly behind the door. This supports the idea that the doors are the same, and all of the widebody effect is in the fender (and rocker panel). Parts listings which show different fenders for w/4S and w/o 4S, but not different doors support this idea as well. Once you focus your eye on that area, from certain angles and lighting it's actually kind of clumsy-looking. From other angles it looks spectacular. But I don't think it's happening in the door.

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I think i just made a big mistake! i have bought 02 c2 door for my 04 c4s

Also, don�t forget that pricing can be quite a bit different between the two. An early C2 could be nearly 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of the latest C4S. Is one twice as good as the other? Not in my book. The increase in price isn�t apples-to-apples (admittedly) unless you are comparing performance (because they are less than 5% of each other in terms of performance). The price comes from age, features, styling, and equipment.

I also like the safety that the AWD adds. The viscous coupler (VC) is first class technology, when a wheel spins it transfers the power to the other wheels. So this car is safer whenever you are driving, and especially useful in poor road conditions (rain, snow, loose surface, etc). Applying power to all 4 wheels makes for a much more stable platform. And the PSM is very welcome since it only helps keep you out of trouble, and can be turned off whenever that is preferred. I think Porsches have always been made "rough and ready" and to me the AWD adds another dimension of utility and safety. Oddly I don't think I've ever heard of VC failure, or the failure rate is very low.

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I think there are two sides to this coin. AWD can offer a false sense of security with added traction, but braking isn�t much improved. But 911s already have good braking. And I think you�re right about PASM. I also think you�re right when conditions are unexpectedly poor (being caught in snow with summer-only tires. My car doesn�t have PASM. So it�s entirely up to the driver to prevent a situation. The later cars are arguably safer than the earlier ones.

The viscous coupling failed in my 2002 C4S, requiring the front differential to be rebuilt. Interestingly, the AWD system in the 996 isn’t especially useful in rain or snow. It really shines on the track, as it allows the driver to put the power down faster when coming out of a corner. The issue with slippery road conditions is that the PSM/traction control system engages when the rear wheels slip, preventing the AWD system from doing much. I found that I couldn’t drive up my driveway in snowy weather unless I disabled PSM.

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totally agree. Love the rims.

I really like the wide hips on the C4S but when it came time to buy, I was only interested in '99 cars as I really like cable throttles. I also like lightweight and simple to maintain.... 2wd vs 4wd is always simpler. Less options on my car that even a basic C4S also. To each their own but I'm perfectly happy with my 99. Wouldnt mind a 40th Anniversary car however.. thats a different story

I've heard that 04 c4s have 345 hp is that correct?

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No, they have the exact same 3.6l engine as the C2. 320hp There is an option (available for C2, C4S BUT it was standard on the anniversary model) called X51. It bumps the output to 345. That's what you're thinking of, but it was an option and not common. Cheers Charlie

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Thank you for your answer. how can i find out if mine is X51?

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on build sticker, or this if dealer installed.

Check out vandersmith's detailed build thread on his c4s. It was tracked and modified quite a lot and ultimately converted to 2wd. IIRC the immediate post-conversion improvements in lap times were in seconds not tenths and the change in balance/handling was pretty significant. Nordschleife times are great, but a rennlister running data at his home track is probably a better metric to make comparisons. For my 2c, I think an LSD is more important that awd on a 996. I prefer the way my C2 drives over a c4s no question, but I'd give a limb to put an end to that one-tire-fire on track or at autox.

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Well, I think that the Porsche official driver, in such long circuit like Nordschleife, with such different sectors, actually gives a perspective of performance comparison really good. I had the opportunity to drive there a couple of times and I can tell you that I wont be able to extract even near the maximum of either both models... It is important to keep in mind, that the 4S is not only the 4WD. The wider rear end, the setup of the suspensions (springs, shocks, anti roll bars, mounts, etc), bigger brakes, improved air flow, etc. are notable improvements when it comes to attack a long and diverse road. It is not the same the Palm Beach circuit with more straights than corners than Nurburg, is not the same a standar C2, than one with M030 and LSD... and so on. But for effects of comparison, I think that the porsche gives a quite good taste about what both models offer: different behaviour/taste... quite the same performance I am not saying that C4S is superior to C2 but I am totally against the so many mentioned superior performance of the C2 vs C4S

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Do we know that both times were set by the same driver? On the same type of tires? In the same weather conditions? Without seasonal repaves to any sections of the track? Way too many variables at that track to draw any kind of conclusions unless the lap times are significantly different. IMO a 4-second difference between 2 laps on a 13-mile track is in the noise. Basically proves the point that in the hands of a good driver, the extra stability of AWD, wider tires, etc. is offset by the additional weight and perhaps slightly less driver feel. A more relevant test would be to have an average Joe who's not a very good driver attempt a lap back-to-back in each car. Long story short, buy whichever one you like better

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Actually we do They were tested on the same test session (they tested all the 996 range). The tires should be the ones that come from factory in both models

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Fair enough. I still say 4 seconds on an ~8-minute lap is pretty small potatoes, and not all that meaningful. I wanna see Bob the DE student try both cars and see what happens then. Most of us aren't factory pilots.

Sounds fun. I volunteer to be the average Joe. Who wants to volunteer their c4s? :B I think the OP has a nice idea of the pros/cons, only thing left to do is drive a few

The C4S has 0.2 liters and about 20 more horsepower than a 99 C2. It is heavier, but you can fit a wider set of tires in the rear fenders. The narrow body cars are limited to 18x11 in the rear. Not sure how much of an advantage 4WD would be on the track given the extra weight. I suspect that you can set up a C4S as a quicker track car than a 99 C2 for little extra money. The problem I see is that a C4S costs nearly twice as much as a 99 C2. If I stuff my 99 into the wall at the track one day, which is definitely possible, it will be hugely disappointing, but not nearly as much of a financial loss. If you plan on tracking your 996 a fair amount, I would go with a 99 C2.

Not a track guy but I’m struggling with the debate over a few tenths of seconds at track day driving a 14-19 year old car. Put your micrometer away and go have fun! If you can’t, you’re probably in the wrong (996) forum... We have a reputation as miscreants to maintain. TC

^^ Right!

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Thats exactly what I meant. Different tastes, quite the same performance

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Please note that the only reason the C4S ran a faster time was because it had newer, better tires than the C2. Tires being equal the C2 will be faster every single time. Neither the C2 nor the C4S is traction limited by power, the 4WD is useless on a track.

Well thank goodness we've got that sorted. I've been in suspense for over 2 years waiting to know what @brontosaurus thought!

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Oh, I disagree wholeheartedly. If you�re looking for more understeer, super useful.

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And where do you get the information of what tires where used in the Nurburg test? Besides, you are ignoring the improvements in suspension, chassis (wider track), wheels/tires size and brakes... I don't think it's only a question of rubber And don't get me wrong, both are fantastic cars, but I'm against that statement that the "Carrera will be faster anytime". Also, I recommend the reading of tests from the magazines from the era, like the EVO Car of the Year 2002, where the C4S came second only to the NSX R, where you can read statements like "the best 911 after the GT3".