814 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHThe 133,333 mile engine rebuild thread
Reported repair
Repair few things today and also encountered other issues
Reported resolution
1
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report a fix
1
1 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported fix · Original poster
I fixed a few things today and also encountered other issues.
Leading evidence: 'Repair few things today and also encountered other issues' (1 discussions report resolution; 0 report an unsuccessful attempt). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'bad' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Repair few things today and also encountered other issues' (1 discussions). For that action, 1 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. The most frequently reported fix is 'Repair few things today and also encountered other issues', supported by resolution reports in 1 discussions. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report a fix
1
1 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report a fix
1
1 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
I had the exact same thing, it was the fuel filler cap seal which was broken.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The "tamper-proof" screws are an emission thing, the first I seen of them was in late 70's on carburated choke systems to keep laymen from "adjusting" the choke.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
814 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 2 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
9 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Still not getting the fifth of five burners to fire.
I enjoyed most of a year with
Speedy
. My expectations were equaled or exceeded. I started a thread when I bought the car and followed up with the basic maintenance and discoveries. That thread is here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-tune-up.html
Now it's time for a new thread. The engine finally exhibited one of the 57 failure modes. Coolant was getting into, at least, cylinder #5. It's time for an engine. This thread will follow that story.
This is where I left off today.
Well, at least it’s the right time of year (in MI) for a project like that. It will be interesting to see what you find, and your plan to fix. Good luck.
I'm betting that cylinder #5 has a cracked bore (ovaled so far it cracked). The common head cracking patters exhibit either coolant in the oil, or oil in the coolant, or both ways, doesn't usually get into the cylinder and on spark plugs.
Time to machine out the complete cylinder and go BIG BORE !!!
That was my second thought. I observed no oil in the coolant. The oil looked really nasty and it was quite obvious coolant was in cylinder #5. Haven't gotten far in the disassembly. Should know more by this coming weekend.
I am definitely looking at Nickies. If I read things correctly, that process can be performed even on cracked bores. That would be a big bonus, if so. And if I do go that route, I need to decide on how many other upgrades to select from their menu. A price breakdown would help with my decisions.
Don't want to get too far ahead of myself. Even though I bought one of these kits...
Must......resist........wanting........to.........clean.........that.... ........engine!!! I have OCD when it comes to cleaning things, especially car parts. lol
Did you rally the C4? If so, a link to some videos?
Good luck with the engine rebuild.
You are welcome to come over and help.
It is absolutely filthy - I know.
I did not rally it. However, I did layout the RallyCross course with it for our May event, this year. I also used it when I worked controls at one of our road rallies.
I intentionally resisted using it in competition, for the very reason I find myself in now. I didn't want to hasten the race to engine damage. I figured it would get there on its own just driving back and forth to work. Once I have a solid - known - engine, I will probably use it for RallyCross. I had been trying to coordinate a day for a photoshoot with a local photographer. The weather and timing never came together for us. It will now have to wait until the new engine is in.
All I have are pictures that I took after laying out the RallyCross course and the road rally I worked.
I sometimes think I'm a bad a$$ when I'm blasting up and down fire roads in my turbo beetle. If not for the Dieselgeek Panzer Plate under the motor I would have lost the oil pan long ago. But running a 996 cab is gonna be real bad a$$. I can see its in your blood but good on ya. Good luck with the build too. I'll be watching between work on my own motors. The costs add up pretty fast on these engines. My $300 M96 motor is looking to be somewhere in the low to mid teens when I get everything done, but I'm sure it will be worth it.
Engine builds are my favorite thing on the "list" so I wish all y'all a broken motor for the holidays
Thanks, Charlie. Your saga inspired me. I'm thinking that I might go with the same shop that did your cylinder heads. Need to investigate options.
Yeah - you have no idea.
I know you're joking but I agree; more build threads are not necessarily a bad thing. Hopefully I can continue to learn from all of you, and at the same time give back in some way.
That's the underside of piston #5. It looks a lot like a physical feature of the piston and its reflection against the bore. You can see what looks like a crack at 3:15.
Ahh, that makes better sense, I thought the image was from spark plug hole of a "steam cleaned" piston top, the circled area is probably a weight balancing machining.
A few others...
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/03/the...i-berra-quotes
We could start a whole thread with quotes attributed to great thinkers such as Casey Stengel, Groucho Marx, George Carlin, Steven Wright, Sparky Anderson, Will Rogers, etc.
But on the serious note, I was asking Doc (Skip) if this is how Porsche does it from the factory or could this motor have been reworked? I'm just trying to learn things I know nothing about.
I understand. And Doc is probably one of the best guys to answer the question. That said, I think that's a good place to take material off a piston especially if checked with the rods installed. I've balanced con-rods, there's typically extra material just for that purpose.
Here's a good video on balancing an entire engine.
You Tube
They don't spend much time on the pistons. So there's this one...
You Tube
Porsche uses two weight groups for pistons in the 3.4, they have a (+) group 544g-547g and a (-) group 547g-550g, the +or- is stamped into the piston top for indication or the weight group and are weight matched to within 3 grams. Usually machine shops who balance pistons match within 1 gram or .5 gram. and normally remove material from non-critical areas, but with a piston that is already as light as possible, there are not many non-critical areas, they usually remove material from around the pin boss edge as shown in the red circle, the green circle shown I think is the area we see in the borescope cam and may be just the clearance machining for the pin bore.
Right, I just took a quick look at the LN website and that feature is shown on their example JE piston. So it seems to be there as you say, for machining - or it could be for tool clearance during assembly.
Not much to report on the engine. I did have to move it out of the way today.
Fortunately I have a few days ahead to get things done. One was fixing the driver's side window in my wife's V70R. Not a difficult job when you see how to do it from the YouTube videos. Will install some new speakers in Sparky tomorrow, or the next day. What's really been taking my time, is the installation of a furnace for my shop. Who knew you had to add so much more, once you get the furnace out of the box?
Ran about 45' of black pipe from the west end of the building to a point close to the eventual mounting place. Did a trial mount of the fire break for the vent tube. Suspended six threaded rods to hang the thing. Still need to convert the gas metering to LPG, wire up 120v, wire and mount the thermostat, hang the furnace, finish the fuel line, complete the venting and then finally get a propane tank delivered and hooked up. Nothing to it...
Hey Bill - I saw that yesterday. It looks to me as though it's a subscription sort of deal. My internet data plan is not the greatest. If it were available on DVD, I would be more likely to jump on it. I can assure you - I will need all the help I can get, when I start putting things back together. And there is no better help than Jake and his team.
I'll wager 15 quatloos that he is untrainable.
Sorry I couldn't resist, way too much Star Trek as a kid (and adult).
Really though, with your skills, plus the amount of help and knowledge on this forum it should be a fairly straight forward job.
Watching, well it's on, right now... "Obsession"
Getting closer to getting my furnace installed. Engine is on hold until I finish all I can do on this.
True. It is permitted to invert the unit. You just have to rotate the access panel. They also provide an extra sticker so it will read right-side-up. I think I'll leave it the way it is. Keep everyone guessing...
Are you on propane or natural gas? Are you pulling permits for the install?
I wouldn't let my neighbor's dog drink Bud Light and I really don't like my neighbor's dog. I didn't realize there was a substantial difference between Labbat and Bud though.
My passive aggressive WiFi:
Actually there is a significant difference between Bud and Labatt. My daily working beers are Blue Light and Corona Light. We get better beer for other occasions. Hacker-Pschorr Weisse, for example.
Permits?
Propane. Converted the orifices and the adjustment spring in the regulator two days ago. Completed the fuel line and vent yesterday. Could have gone a foot or two closer to the wall - but this will work.
Installed a thermostat and a rain cap.
Still have to wire up the electrical for the fan (and igniter) and then have the propane tank delivered and hooked-up. Will have the guys look things over in case I missed something obvious. Will pressure test all lines with soapy water (expect no leaks - things are quite tight). Will get to use my manometer again; to set the manifold gas pressure correctly. My son will do most of the wiring for the 120. He's an apprentice electrician, so he'll do things much closer to code than I might. My wife's Christmas present to me will be a full tank of propane...
In other words, the gift of heat. Should be operational in a few days.
I can't say with 100% certanty that I've ever tried Labbat so I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
For everyday beer, I like Carlsberg Elephant, Stella Artois and Pilsner Urquell.
If you bought the propane specific model, the gas pressure probably won't need adjusting. If you don't want to do the soapy water thing, you can buy a test guage at Home Depot for around $10.00. It has a 3/4" F.I.P. thread and a Schrader valve to pressurize with. Back in the day, in a former life, building inspectors required the system to hold 15 PSI for 15 minutes to pass inspection.
I have the same heater in my garage, and it works well. I think it is a 75K BTU unit. I've used them in two different garages so far, and no complaints.
The only two things I don't love are:
Heat is directed up high, even if you adjust the louvers downward, so it doesn't heat as well at ground level (like where you are when under a car)
It has exposed combustion, so I avoid things like painting and sanding while it is running to avoid explosion risk
All told, this is an economical way to get heat into a garage, I think you'll enjoy it. If money were no object, I'd have done radiant heat, but I'd rather spend money on other things.
Yes - that would be an easy test. I could rig that up with no trouble. Soapy water is easy too, just a lot of joints to check...
This unit came with natural gas as default, but all parts for LPG conversion.
Ok - looks like we've got talking points until the engine build gets underway. I like wheat beers, so H-P is probably one of my favorites. A few others: Warsteiner, Alaskan Amber, Dos XX Amber, Moosehead....
The budget didn't allow for in-floor heating, so I've been using kerosene heaters for the past two years. The unit I just installed is 80k BTU. Should be adequate for the space. I agree, getting the floor warm will be difficult.
I already have a ceiling fan. It rotates the air clockwise within the building. This was taken in to account when locating the furnace. Hopefully that will be enough. If not, your plan may be a good fall-back.
This should be the next to last post on the furnace. The last will be with the tank hooked up and heat pouring out past the louvers.
My son came out and hooked up the 120v. He installed a switch above the thermostat and wired in an overhead outlet to the same circuit. Don't laugh at the cover plate color. I'll never find a real need for that paint so I used some of it on the wall plates and the circuit breaker. Color coding makes sense, rather than just relying on the label in the box.
Tomorrow a tank will be delivered and hooked to the fuel pipe.
Are you buying the tank outright or leasing it from the propane company? I ask, because of the whopping two installs I worked on (and more than 20 years ago at that), the propane company had conditions that had to be met before they would install the tank. Because of liability issues, one wanted to see a signed inspection card from the building department before they would hook it up and the other one said the concrete pad for the tank didn't meet their spec. I'm sure you'll be fine but I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Lease. We pay a fee to have it delivered and then to have it filled. Hopefully will only need to have it re-filled every two years of so. We'll have to see.
No - there is no conduit, for one. Everything is protected by breakers and properly wired. Most everything is high enough as to be out of reach for nearly all eventualities. If I had to pay someone to do this - it would be just like my Porsches - it wouldn't happen. I did pay to have the pole barn built and the concrete poured. Beyond that, it was all done by me (and a couple of family members).
Tank is due between noon and four. Need to be home to supervise...
Looks fine to me, 14g and a 15amp breaker. Wires r stapled and cover plates r on. The only issue is that current code would require a gfi breaker or outlet. Soon it will have to be an arc/gfi. Personally its stupid being that its on the ceiling and u r in no danger of being wet to ground. The arc faults in garages r stupid too, but thats a whole nother conversation.
Anyways carry on and get back to the motor.
I wish it were that simple. I have to lay out a rally and make trophies. We're using a new phone app to define checkpoint locations - so there is a big learning curve to overcome. The big benefits are no control workers are needed and the number of controls is greatly increased. My son and I were out trying to define the first section of the rally today, when the propane guys arrived. The wife called and let me know they were here.
Was able to get home within about half an hour. They were still here - and they could not get the burners to stay lit. I messed with things and still have not been successful. Did a manifold pressure check with my manometer and can't get more than 8" of water column. Should be 10". Stay tuned...
Alas there is no joy in Muddville, this night. I was in contact with the technical service of the furnace maker. They were very helpful. They had good advice and I was able to follow-up on their recommendations. One was to clean the flame sensor. That didn't correct the problem. Then it was to pull out the jet (orifice) that isn't firing and make sure there is no debris obstructing fuel flow. Did that too. Still not getting the fifth of five burners to fire.
Will call them directly tomorrow and see if it can be resolved on the phone. The tech, on the chat service, hinted that a new propane valve might need to be sent out. We'll know more tomorrow. Maybe there's something else being overlooked. I have my doubts about that. The propane delivery guy didn't see anything questionable in my install. And I have to admit to having a high level of confidence in it, as well.
So for a little fun - this is where I left off on the trophies a couple of days ago. Need to explain what's happening: I start with a 6"x6" tile and paint a dirt road surrounded by snow. Then I glue a truly awesome Hot Wheels car in a spot that evokes the most life, drama and motion. Well, you still need a lot of imagination....
Here are a couple from last year:
Those are awesome Scott! I love unique and hand made trophies. These are the keepers 20+ yrs down the road. All the plastic ones get recycled, at least in my house.
LOVE the trophies! I've made trophies for events but they suck compared to yours.
Did you double check how you installed the LPG conversion kit? It sounds like it still thinks it's using natural gas. Is the burner that is not lighting the one farthest from the fuel source?
I did mess with the adjustment screw. I fear it may now be stuck bottomed out. It doesn't seem to matter. Backing it out and screwing it in, made no difference. I did get a good 11" of WC in a later test, but still not getting the last burner to light. Yes - furthest from the fuel source. I'll be calling their tech hotline soon. We'll see what they have to say.
It might still be an issue. However, I consulted the 2018 International Fuel Gas Code - Table 402.4(28) for schedule 40 metallic pipe.
My run is slightly less than 50'. My heater is rated at 80k BTU. For undiluted propane with 11.0 in WC initial pressure and a pressure drop of 0.5 in WC, the 1/2" pipe I used should be good for up to 122k BTU. That being said, I am getting a pressure drop down to about 8 in WC when the unit is operating (this on the input side). At initial light-off, pressure is at 11.6 in WC (output side) and gradually drops over time. Will need to study this more and understand why this is happening. In the meantime -
we have ignition
.
Worked with a technician on the phone. I described the issue and he suggested that there was an obstruction to the last jet. I went through this yesterday and that was not the issue. He had me light the last jet with a butane lighter. It fired up! I did notice that the #4 jet was shooting off a lick of orange flame that was ever so slightly bypassing its passageway. On closer inspection, that jet was not installed square to the manifold. I removed it and realigned it and that was all it took to allow it to light-off #5. I still am concerned about the pressure drop. They will be sending me another valve that has been converted for propane. I'm not sure that will correct the pressure concern, but it should address the worry I have regarding the adjustment screw that will no longer come out.
Fan on...
Flame on...
I would expect less orange and more blue. I think that is due to the pressure being on the low side. Still need a little more work to get this fully resolved.
Maybe by page 10, I'll have real engine related content.
After getting the furnace to stay lit, I went to my mapping program and defined a solid rally course. Should be around 175 miles of the best roads SE lower Michigan has to offer. And by,
best
, I mean unpaved. Plan to get through a lot, if not all, of it tomorrow. Our practice run, with the new checkpoint app, was valuable. I'll be logging the route and my son will have responsibility for the checkpoints. Expecting him to log the route is too much work. This Phone/GPS-centric checkpoint app is a very interesting and revolutionary way to create road rallies. Hopefully we'll pull it off with few glitches.
I also got closer to completing the trophies.
I give away a special award each year. I call it the "Son of Sno* Award". It will go, this year, to a guy that has contributed to not only me, and my rally, but to the region, as a whole. I think he may get a kick out of it.
This is what the diorama is based on. His car, from the 1976 Marquette 1000.
Unfortunately, I haven't come across a convertible w/hardtop to more closely capture the original. I do think the collapsed rear window will help with the authenticity... oops.
If we could figure out how to make trophies from horse manure, we'd really have something.
How about an on-topic post?
I actually had some time to mess with the engine today. Plugged some holes and then did a little degreasing.
Cleaned out about 2mm worth of grunge. Still have plenty in the valleys and crannies. Removed most of the electronic sensors and components.
Next time, I have time, I'll try to get the exhaust off.
Yeah well, it was the last day above freezing for a few days. It snowed last night. We got between 1 and 2 inches. Perfect weather for laying out the third half of my rally.
Completed the route and now the hard part starts. Creating the route instructions and calculating all of the perfect arrival times at each of the 80+ checkpoints. Then all of those times need to be entered into the app. I might not see my engine for a week!
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/897x500/cf9176fd_9e52_4bd2_a308_6a800bd31357_ebb566a3f4ac408aa54e0f75abf7ea3425c529f2.jpeg
Hey Charlie,
Unfortunately, I'm not retired yet. I get a small taste of that life during the Christmas break. I could really get used to that.
But since you
are
retired, how about staying with us for a while and messing with this engine? We have a spare guest room. We can keep you in food and beer, too...
I am as disappointed in the slow progress as you and the other viewers. The furnace installation and the (still incomplete) rally lay-out are eating into my engine time. It won't get any better for a few weeks. This weekend we have company visiting and I have to finish the rally (and trophies). Next Saturday is the rally. I might have some free time on both Sundays.
Then the week after that, we are travelling to Las Vegas to attend the SCCA Convention and the Hall of Fame induction of my father. Where's that violin?
Just kidding, I couldn’t resist.
I’ll say you have a lot going on, and it’s clear what you do in your spare time!
That hall of fame ceremony is very cool, you should be proud!
keep that stick on the ice!
No worries, mate.
I think it was you that may have complained about this "sleep thing" that we humans need (when we worked together). I like sleep, but I wish I could be more productive during those hours...
We are all very proud. It's just sad that this couldn't have come 20 or 25 years sooner. At 90, my father's faculties are not what they were. He's got dementia, so he will often ask the same question multiple times within just a few minutes. Sad to see, but he still has his sense of humor and when alert he's good company.
Yep - that's the way I play.
Didn't get anything done on the engine today.
But I made up for it yesterday.
Got all of the exhaust off; except for the bank #2 header. Rounded off a couple of bolts. Will need to get it on an engine stand and roll it over. Then I'll get medieval on its ***.
Snapped off a few bolts on the other side. I'll let the head rebuilder deal with those. Got the coolant pieces and oil pump off the front.
Next step will be separating the transmission from the engine. Removed the two lower bolts and "cracked" all of the others. Ordered a transmission jack that will make the job easier. Should arrive on Tuesday.
Well, Tuesday arrived. And so did my transmission jack. I kept getting notices that it needed to be signed for. I was happy to see it waiting for me when I got home from work (without the hand-truck...)
Good thing I know how to make things. The "instructions" were a low distortion image of parts with illegible notations.
Did a little leveling to make sure it was a straight shot.
Separation....
Celebration...
No conclusive answer. It could easily have been the AOS fitting or the VarioCam solenoid seal. Or both, or something else in that area. For me, it doesn't matter any more. For you, consider looking at the solenoid seal.
What's the story on your photo? That's not your car, is it? Looks like a good place to kick up a little dust...
Have it all cleaned up and ready for a short drive. I had a second cam bore plug blow out again (opposite side) and have been cleaning a lot of oil that sprayed the left side. What a mess.
I thought maybe my newish AOS is failing but the good Doc said it's not uncommon. Porsche used no adhesive in these and they pop out with age he said. I'm just under 60K miles so time will tell.
Just got my Manometer with no instructions or tubing, so I need to figure out how it works.
I have one with two ports, I hooked one to a barbed fitting installed in a spare oil cap and left the other one open to atmosphere.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post16069073
Well I bought my single port without realizing it. I saw another member recommend it and ordered from the link he posted. I have no idea where that thread is.
No. Know. Who knows?
Post #272 and #280 show the one I bought at this old thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...une-up-19.html
The link is around too. I can post again, if there is interest. Seems to work well. There is no need for two nipples... well on this device, anyway. If your device has a a vent to atmosphere, that's all you need. Simplifies things, actually. Hard to take readings off the wrong nipple if there's only one.
bar, psi, in HG, kPa, in w.c., mm Hg, mbar, mm w.c., Max Pressure 5 psig... Not sure which unit to use.
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/d...SABEgJrHvD_BwE
Bill, you only need one port. The other port goes unused (to atmosphere) for the devices that have two...
If you look at the thread I posted above, there are links to other threads someone else posted. Ahsai is the expert in this stuff. 5" of w.c. is ideal according to those threads (Tony Callas reference).
My rally will run tomorrow - rain, or shine. Looks like rain. Maybe even freezing rain. We can only hope...
The trophies are ready to go. I was a little lazy with the "feature". Rocks are a lot less bother than "trees".
Might have some time to start work on getting the heads off the engine.
All right sports fans; lots to update. The rally went well. We had 24 cars competing. Not a great turn-out (I've had as many as 45, in the past). But it is a nice number. There were some mistakes made by myself (course measurement at one checkpoint) and four leg calculations (by our rally app expert). Other than that, just about everything was good. There is still a lot of learning and growing as we get better with this concept. I do think it has the potential to revolutionize Road Rally competition, as we know it.
But that's not why you're here. The real update is that I had some time to mess with Speedy's engine today. I pulled off the little green cam caps. Some already had holes in them and were reused! Who ever did that, at least put a little blob of silicone sealer inside them to prevent oil leaking. Then I installed my no-expense-spared cam holder tool.
Popped off the scavenge pump assembly from bank #1.
Got the cam cover off. Removed the VarioCam solenoid and all the stuff so the cams can come out. Looks as though the guides are not too old. This is supported by a receipt provided by the previous owner, as well as the tell tale signs that this has been worked on by someone other than an approved Porsche mechanic.
One chain tensioner out.
Cams out.
Important question in the next post.
I set the cams and the VarioCam mechanism in the box with a few other parts. I suspect the spring that appeared out of nowhere is from the VarioCam assembly. Any leads would be appreciated.
Cams gently placed in the cover.
Lifters.
Lifter cradle.
Lots of photos to document the nuances that could easily be overlooked on reassembly. This is a little bolt that is hidden behind a little baffle, that could go unnoticed. These photos and the Raby DVD should help...
Loosening the head bolts.
Head off. Lots of carbon. Surprise...
it wouldn't have been long before more cylinders started failing due to crack propagation. I didn't see any in cylinder #1. That's because the piston was in the way...
Yep, that small spring goes under the valve/plunger in the vario-cam actuator. Snell Gelb lost his unnoticed and reassembled without it. We had a hard time diagnosing the code that he had not knowing the spring was left out. I mailed him a spring from an old actuator after I asked him if the spring was in there, he said "what spring"..lol
FWIW the actuators and valve/plungers are bank specific, so pay attention, also the vario-cam pads are different upper and lower, and not installed the same bank to bank.
Good to see! Curious what the second bank uncovers. Mark the position of those scavenge pumps as you remove, they are interchangeable and position sensitive (ask me how I know
)
Hey Doc - I figured it was part of the solenoid. I payed particular attention to the plunger, as there was clearly an innie and an outie. I found the same spring under the other plunger when I took the other bank apart.
Not yet. Stay tuned...
Yes - I did that. Have to pay particular attention after parts are cleaned that the marks don't get washed away. I do have a lot of photos though. I find it's a hell of a lot better than my memory. Now if I could just remember where I left that camera card...
Oh look, I found it. Just about ready to take the head off bank #2.
It's off. #5 looks a little different.
Here's the real smoking gun. A crack large enough to catch a finger nail. Smaller cracks visible at about 8:00 in #5 and about 7:00 in #6. Good thing things didn't go beyond this point. Glad I was paying close attention and took it out of service when I did. Now it's just a matter of working out the logistics of getting the heads checked over, then getting the case halves separated and shipped to LN. That shouldn't take long...
Proof that the LN bearing was installed. I had no reason to suspect otherwise.
End of a good day's work...
Little bittersweet when you see that crack, isn't it?! On one hand you now need to split the case and spend more money on the rebuild. On the other hand...you have an excuse to go big!
Sheesh! That�s a huge crack in #5. Any idea why the liners are coming apart? Did you track the car? Apologies if I missed the reason. Haven�t read the whole thread.
[QUOTE
Here's the real smoking gun.
[/QUOTE]
How does the bore not get scored with the ovalality that must be present?
great pics. Look forward to your work.
I have some ideas on where to go with this. Will discuss my ideas/options with LN. This was not unexpected. I went into the purchase of this car well aware that it could blow up at any time. I got a good year and 10,000 miles out of it. The price was good and I think that I am still ahead in the game. You're absolutely right, I can go big... and
robust.
I did not track the car. There is a good chance I will after the rebuild though. If there is a clearly defined reason for D-chunk and other bore cracks, that will be what's happening here. Let's call it a design and material flaw on the part of the manufacturer.
I think those are two different failure modes. They may come together, or not. Conceivably, one could contribute to the other. Without getting a better view of the underside of the piston, we don't know for sure if scoring hasn't begun. My early scopes were not totally conclusive that none was present.
I'm looking for the time when I can flog this car without worry. Putting in the work to get there will be an adventure. I like adventures.
How did the head look to you? It seems like there's a crack from the #5 spark plug hole on the cam side; or is that just the lights?
Yeah, it looks like its Nickies time, see if you can get a discount for 2 blocks and I'll send mine in with yours
I didn't take the time to get a good look. I do see something in the photo that doesn't look right. Will be pretty busy for the next week, so I doubt much will get done. If anything, it will cleaning and exploring options for shipping things out.
Right, a discount. Count on it.
Found a little time on my hands today. Figured I'd get started on separating the case halves.
Anti-torx:
No slop in the IMSB. Might make another good paperweight. As if I don't have enough engine parts in that role...
Not pretty. I don't think the engine ran for long with the coolant intrusion into the oil. So far, I have seen nothing that makes me think in went the other way. All the coolant looks clean.
Found all the bolts the first time around. We have separation.
Look - no bore scoring! Yea. Too bad the the cylinders are cracking up. I think I caught this just before D-chuck took it out in a big way. Cylinder #5 is really close.
Good stopping point. Might have a little time tomorrow. We travel on Thursday, so it might be a while before I get things boxed up and shipped. Progress has been surprisingly good; considering my expectations.
I would be surprised if much oil got past the IMS seal. I didn't spend a lot of time analyzing it. Everything is getting redone, so what existed previously really means little at this point. After the AOS failed, there was a lot of oil finding its way out of various places. I'm fairly sure the RMS was one of them.
More progress. Got the guts out.
Pulled bank one free from the crankcase. Cylinder #1 has the most bore scoring. Top (intake) side. It doesn't matter any more.
Will ship the block halves out next week. Should be able to split the crankcase and get the rods and crank checked locally.
Left off with this lump...
We went to Las Vegas for a few days. My father was inducted into the SCCA Hall of Fame. My wife, my brother and my kids were all able to be in attendance. Too bad this didn't come a decade or two earlier. My father would have been able to comprehend and enjoy the event. At least it did happen while he is still alive. He turned 90 three weeks before this event.
There was a box waiting for me when I got home. Packed two case halves in it yesterday. Should get picked up tomorrow.
Received the M9x engine assembly DVD set last night. Watched Stage 1. I'll watch more as time permits. Should be able to get the crankshaft carrier apart this weekend. Will figure on taking the crank and con-rods to my engine shop for inspection. I anticipate no issues, but there is no reason to take a chance. Then I'll need to order some parts before I can apply the lessons learned in Stage 1.
Hope to hear from LN. The case halves should be in their hands soon.
Figured I would have to get medieval on its ***, so I wheeled the gas welding kit over close to the rolling workbench. Thought I scared the stubborn bolts into releasing. Got a couple to come loose. Then two others just laughed at me and snapped off. They must have known the acetylene tank was empty.
Will pick-up a full tank on the way home from work today. We'll see how well the blue wrench works on the broken studs. Every one I can get out will save me $30. The one nearest the cam chain tower will cost more, if I can't get it out.
What are your plans for the heads? Might be worth giving Len Hoffman a call. He's finishing up mine next week. Went with oversized intake valves to complement the 3.8.
Funny you should bring that up. I am looking at the mid-upgrade (Spec class prep). One step below the oversized intake valves. If I find an extra stack of money hiding somewhere, I will step up to stage 3. But then I would want chrome-moly connecting rods and a bunch of other upgrades. Not sure going whole-hog on this engine is the way to go. Now if it were a coupe and I were taking it to the track, as opposed to playing in the dirt, I might have a different perspective. Then again, maybe not...
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/500x500/7a9ca021_d5dd_40bf_a6dd_bc2375baabb4_757c92a57335026594be3ab2c4073d8f70fd1e44.gif
Time to crack the crankcase carrier open.
I am not looking forward to installing the pistons, pins and clips. That looks like an adventure.
A little inspiration:
A lot of nuances captured in the DVD and in this next shot. Was nice to know, in advance, what to look for. Will need to try and stay a few chapters ahead in my studies...
Not a whole lot of progress. Just getting things lined-up, parts sent out and parts ordered.
The block halves are at LN. There was a bit of concern, on my part, that jumping to 3.8 might be too big of a step. I'm less concerned now, as I will be sure to break-in the engine using the method recommended for RND rebuilt engines. Will also be doing my best to monitor air/fuel ratio to guard against over fueling. Another thread is out there that is doing a good job of looking at that.
I took the crank and con-rods to my engine shop. They should be fine, but I want to have this verified.
Not waiting for verification, I ordered main bearings, rod bearings, carrier bolts and thrust bearings. All from Sunset Porsche. Prices are surprisingly reasonable when compared to most vendors. Also ordered a gasket kit (from ECS Tuning). Interesting that this kit was only $185. I checked on that same part number (Victor Reinz) and that same vendor, this morning, and it was $60 more. What? Will have to check that it isn't damaged. Maybe it was old stock. Hopefully there isn't anything that degrades significantly with age.
I've started an Excel file capturing all the parts, part numbers, tools, prices and supplier. Should be interesting when all done. Probably shouldn't let my wife see it.
That's happened to me on other items with ECS. I bought some parts for my VW at very good prices (which they honored) but the prices were updated almost immediately after the purchase. I think they have so many items that some are not updated until its too late(for them)
Hey Brian,
It was good to see you and Judi last night. You should visit when you have a chance. Today is good. Otherwise, send me a PM and we'll try to work out a day./time that works.
What could easily be made to work in a mid-60s Japanese monster movie, this hideous beast, actually came courtesy of China.
A little ultrasonic cleaner and some chemicals were waiting for me when I got home. Results seem good so far.
Hey Scott,
Is that the 30L unit? I've been contemplating getting one of those. I have a small cleaner now, but bigger is better
Also, are you going to pin/weld the gears on your IMS?
Keep on keeping on, dude.
Hey Gary - yes, 30 liters. I didn't want to get a little one, and I didn't want to get silly. Though that, is certainly never out of the question.
No plans for pinning the IMS gears.
Oh, the preferred nomenclature is; "keep your stick on the ice".
You Tube
Fyi,
Duct tape does not work well for cardboard boxes. I'd put some proper packaging tape on those.
just an observation from a user of packaging materials....
Got some parts today. Now I need to get the crank back from the shop. Went in for just an inspection and polish. Can get started on Stage 1 of the M9X engine assembly once I have that. Got the carrier bolts, main and rod bearings, and the thrust shims.
I ordered parts to get on with Stage 2. Chains, pads and seals. While waiting for things to start moving along, I've been messing with the ultrasonic washer.
A good representation of the, before state...
After...
Good question. I am still learning about it. So far, the biggest variable is the amount of time spent in the cleaner. Figuring out the concentration of cleaner and type is still another variable. I am using a cleaner at about 5% concentration at the moment. I'll include links below.
One thing I am anxious to try, is putting small parts in little containers with gasoline and tossing them in the bath. There are a lot of YouTube videos out there with different ideas on using these things.
Anyway, I am impressed. A nice tool for cleaning things. I selected this one because it was big enough to fit most mid-sized parts and not terribly expensive. I also liked the digital display versus the *****. There are plenty to choose from. Hard to make an informed decision without data.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012GQOBM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012GQOBM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DJ23WKV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DJ23WKV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I love it when a plan comes together! All those shiny parts. I picked up an IMS Solution for my M96 back in December and its all I can do to keep my grubby little paws off of it.
And now I'm looking online at this very moment to order one of them fancy 30L ultrasonic washing machines like you got. You've convinced me that I can't live without one. I'm hoping it'll make my dogs' baths a little more fun.
Even the cheap Harbor freight one can do some good stuff.. (Get the warranty... )
Kitchen dishwasher liquid soap does some amazing stuff in a ultrasonic,,
I've also used glass beads in baby oil in one to strip paint/coatings off delicate items.
Spent today cleaning things up, a bit. Got a visit from Brian and Judi. I hope they don't report what they've seen to the authorities. The parts cleaner may have looked like a toxic waste site. Fear not, it was drained out and cleaned after they left. All of the evidence is gone...
I did finally get around to cleaning off most of the dirt and salt from Speedy. It's been an ugly sight, until now.
Did a confirmation check of the spare wheel. Also wanted to pump the fuel tank, but it requires something more than key-on (at least with the engine harness disconnected).
I use a cheap facet pump and pump to a safe container with it.. you can even sometimes get a thin tube down the filler neck and empty the tank. It will empty a 20 gallon tank in 5 to 8 minutes..
Or find the fuel pump relay and just use a jumper across the contact connections.
Yeah, I have that one. You are correct regarding the warranty - thing lasted about 8 months and died...warranty saved me on that one. I don't often get their warranty but the electronics from HF can be so hit and miss. I hadn't tried dish soap, mostly using simple green (purple), the carbon comes off the pistons like nothing I've seen. They really are amazing devices though, you can do so much with them.
Now, I just want more volume...gotta keep up with the Harveys. Seems like the 30L units are about the biggest you can go before the prices go exponential. I'm hoping to immerse my face and maybe come out looking 20 years younger.
You are correct! I labeled them incorrectly. I thought I had the crank carrier in proper orientation. Nope, it's upside down. Good thing I have the engine rebuild DVD set.
So true, we briefly talked about this in the engine building class last yea
r--more specifically as a topic about the orientation of the pin for the IMS chain tensioner paddle. The class was best I have taken (I have taken, and taught a lot of classes in my life) -- The video is the perfect companion for anyone rebuilding one of these motors for the first time, or even as reference for subsequent builds.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/590x375/59e98a811800002900dfb65c_db31cde315a03e168325abbbd86102c5a6270ae3.jpg
It will, no question about it. Marking the rods incorrectly would have been discovered sooner or later. Sooner, is OK. I watched more of the first DVD last night and realized my mistake. Once assembly begins, it will be slow and steady. Step by step.
I got a package in the mail today. It was heavy. I thought it might be the crank to IMS chain and some guides, even though that shipment is not targeted to arrive for another week or so. Must be coming on a slow boat from Germany. Instead it was a box of IMS bearing tools. Who would send that?
Need to put a fresh batch of solvent in the ultrasonic cleaner for the second round of parts. Was hoping to get a call from my engine shop to let me know the crank and rods are ready for pick-up. Maybe tomorrow. Did get four of the five chains delivered over the weekend. They do appear to match the old one. So I've got that going for me - which is nice.
Its amazing how fast and easy the right tool can make of a task. Glad it worked well for you. Now you gotta put it all back together, nice and shiny like.
That's the plan. It did take a while to get thread engagement between the tool and the bolt. Once in, it all went well. No drama at all. Came out easier than I would have expected.
You have a great setup there, Scott.
Don't worry about code enforcement, even if we dropped a dime (notgonnahappen ;-) they will probably also drive up the wrong driveway a few times and just give up
So you've got that going for you......which is nice!
Stage one, and done. Got the crank and rods from the engine shop. Clean bill of health.
Loaded the bearings and thrust shims in the (upper) carrier.
Followed the steps as outlined in the
Focus On
DVD. Oiled everything as suggested, and sandwiched the crank between the two halves.
Torqued to spec and marked each fastener to confirm the two steps.
Don't have the con-rod bolts yet, so the next step is a few days off. Spins as smooth as a baby's butt.
No. Wouldn't that be best done with the rest of the components (rods, pistons, pins, etc.)? I'll be trying to match balance those components, but unfortunately it won't be as a complete assembly.
That's what I am referring to when it comes to rods and pistons (pins, clips, rings, bolts).
Is there a reason to suspect the crank? I'm not going down that road.
I don't think there's any reason to suspect it, but I do think the dynamic balancing of the crank is one of those things that are an extra step in the stage II build. It's like the old 80/20 rule - the static balancing of the rods, pistons, pins, clips, rings and bolts will get you most of the way there, whereas the amount of effort to dynamically balance the crank will only add a small amount.
Charlie - yes, the carrier halves fit nicely (even in the basket). The crank was cleaned yesterday, but it had to be placed in without the basket. It also needed to be set as diagonal as it would go. Just enough room for it. Things like the head or case halves would need a bigger cleaner. I did all six con rods yesterday as well. They were staggered, but all six fit in the basket.
That's the theory I am working off of. I don't anticipate the time, effort and cost of doing a proper dynamic balance will pay off enough. It would be nice. And given no limit on time and money, I'd do it. But time and money have always had limits with me.
Very little money was spent today. I did find a little time to mess with labeling the con rods (magic marker dots) and installing some of the IMSS into the IMS.
The first shot shows the cap installed. There's even a little 'prize' captured in this shot.
Drove the bearing home. There's no reason to wait until the crankcase is assembled to move forward on this. Clearly there are some steps that will have to wait on that.
Loose assembled the flange. When the case halves come back from LN, I'll just temporarily assemble them together to notch for the oil feed line. Will allow for a thorough clean-up of any shavings and debris. Not to mention ease of orienting and machining.
Special thanks to a lister for loaning me the IMSB tools. Not to give it away, but let's just call him, "Gary".
Not Jake's...
One of my dogs has a moral objection to the flying of drones and has eaten several of mine mid-flight. My wife seems to think its funny to let Pippi out when I have a drone in the air. I've never seen a dog jump so high in my life and I have to admit its fairly funny to watch her in a frenzy when she hears those blades whirring
No - not Jake's. I can't afford real ones. I'm not making millions off the fears of suckers....
I'd like to see Pippi in action. Our silly dog, Sundae, is funny enough. She wants to bite the front bumper on the mail truck when they come up the driveway. She has plenty of other silly traits.
Okee Dokee! I'm gonna sacrifice a drone just for your entertainment:-) Haven't ever filmed it before so it may take a day or so.
Keep up the good work.
Some people avoid, or slow for dirt roads. I usually speed up.
Probably won't be able to do much on Speedy's engine this weekend. I need the pistons, pins, etc. to do the match (static) balancing. Still probably 2-3 weeks out before I'll see the block halves and the pistons. I can check the weight of the rods though. So that's on the agenda. That and swapping a rear wheel bearing on Sparky...
Here are a few shots of our silly dog (Sundae).
She likes to bury things in the house. A bag of bread disappeared off the counter a while ago. She decided it should be stored in the couch cushions and in the comfy chair.
Who, me?
We have to close the door to our bedroom; otherwise she'll end up on our bed, just as she does on all her other beds.
From a few days ago. Or was it last winter?
Did you just hijack your own thread
You the man!
OK...Now you've hooked me. Nothing gets me more than "good dog" pics. My daughter often accuses me of loving the dogs more than her...what can I say, they never talk back and at least they pretend to feel bad when I catch them doing something wrong.
Here's a couple of pics from our trip to visit the kid where she lives in Moab, UT. Dogs: Pippi up front, then Buck, then Doodle. People: Wife on the right, then daughter, then daughter's useless boyfriend (can't even turn a wrench, let alone change his own oil)
Hurry up and wait--thats the story of my life. Hopefully parts arrive sooner than later.
Its a balmy 27 F degrees out, and the F doesn't stand for Fahrenheit. I made every one take their jackets off for the pic. (except the dogs)
Me at the Delicate Arch. Representin'
Great stuff! Nice to see the animals. Both four-legged and two.
For you older guys that lived through, but may not remember, the 70s. (For the really old guys, it's the 60s). I found my old triple-beam in the basement. Easily precise to 0.1 grams.
I love those Ohaus triple beams. Balances are way (weigh) better than scales if used correctly. You have to be a bit more careful with center of mass on the pan, but they will give you a true mass reading over weight. I much prefer my students understand this difference. I have a triple beam that I have drawn a grid so I can locate the center of mass of the object in the center of the pan as I determine the mass of the object. Uggghh...don't you hate scientists.
Looks like Scott appropriated that one from high school while he was making some extra money as a youth
But I won't rat you out to the Man.
OK, that confirms it, I am in the correct historic demographic. And I still have enough memory that I instantly recognized and was familiar with both of those tools.
Porsche only sells those rods in sets of 6 (for $2k) weight matched to 3 grams. I have weighed the rods from different 3.4 engines to find as much as 15 grams difference between engines, and not enough material to remove to match the other engine. That's when it makes since to go H-beam.
I bought a set of the K1s from LN and they were ~1.9g difference between the heaviest and lightest rods on the big ends...though, I've set these aside until I have everything ready to go. I'd really hate to be 15g out
No - I love scientists. I married one. Wonderful woman.
I also love science. Took quite a bit of it to get through school. Enjoyed those classes more than the other 'rubbish'.
That triple beam was actually purchased with my own hard-earned cash. There were times when I needed it for my personal science projects.
What's wrong with baggies?
So I checked the mass of the new ARP rod bolts to see how good they were. All were excellent. They came in at about 27.84 grams. Each stock bolt was about 2.5 grams heavier. Just like that, I'm taking 30 grams out!
Got dealt a little setback today. The right rear wheel bearing I wanted to replace on Sparky, is smaller than the parts I have (which are supposed to fit the car). Also, the bearing removal/installation kit I have does not have a mandrel small enough to press it out. I went down this road five times on Walter (bearing replacement). Haven't encountered this issue before. Makes me wonder why this condition exists.
While contemplating this matter, I watched all of disc 2 of the M9X engine assembly DVD. I'm telling you, I can see a lot of places I wouldn't know what to do, or would screw it up. The sequencing of assembly is so critical on this engine.
I made an elementary school math mistake when calculating the mass savings with the ARP rod bolts. Then I saw Bill posted to this thread. I was thinking - oh no, even he saw the error.
He has quoted it for posterity though, so I've got that going for me...
I remember where I was, and what I was doing, when I came up with that original number. Let's just say, my mind was not on math.
You are right about the DVDs. You will want to watch several times. I'll be going through each chapter, in detail (again), as I move forward.
Got an update on the heads, today. No issues found in pressure testing. Will be moving forward with the plan of the mid-level service.
Got a box of parts from Sunset last night. Our silly dog wanted to rip the bumper off the mail-lady's truck. She really needs to behave better when we have visitors delivering things we've ordered. Looks as though my parts from Pelican will be delivered today. Should have photos to share soon. I know most of you have no idea what parts look like...
Oh, and I packaged up a box of tools to send back to "Gary".
I'm ready to see a whole bunch of pics. Glad the tools were of use to you.
On another note, we tried to get some film of Pippi going after the drone, but my wife was laughing way too much, as was I, when the dog decided to run up the back of my VW to a little extra height. She (wife) didn't realize she hadn't started the phone camera. Luckily the drone survived, or as my wife calls it -- the hovercraft
My wife used her phone to take a video of Sundae when she tried on her winter slippers. When she wasn't laughing too hard, the video was certainly laugh-worthy. Sundae kind of goose-stepped around. It was funny.
Just got an update on the block. It's fully machined, sleeved and at the plater. About 2-3 weeks out. Should be able to find a few things to tend to in the meantime...
As promised, photos of parts. Got the chain guides, circlip, intake manifold gaskets (didn't come in the gasket kit) and a rear main seal. The RMS that came in the gasket kit can serve as a spare. Figured I might as well go with the latest version from Porsche. Need to go through piece by piece and make sure I have all of the o-rings I will need. Maybe there's a little free time in that 2-3 week period before the block shows up.
So in those 2-3 weeks, I'll be practicing by piston-pin retaining clip installation. Guess which of the following I'll practice on?
If you guessed the clean ones, you'd be right. Ultrasonic cleaner did a nice job, eh?
Photo of the parts from Pelican. A couple of seals for the windage tray, the cam chain guides and the
wrong
IMS chain. I'll need to get back to Pelican with the right part number. Better to make this mistake now and have time to react.
Scott, you always stage such cool pics of parts, just like I'd expect to see in a magazine. Now you are in for big bucks on that internal tooth chain.
And...
For your viewing pleasure. I know its only a picture but I don't want to create a youtube channel to show the video. Even when the drone is 15 feet off the ground she can't stand it.
Its the Chupacabra!
Hey Gary - interesting you should say that. I have written a number of articles that get published in magazines. Typically a lot of photos are included. I believe they help tell a good bit of the story. I approach many of my projects with the mindset of it becoming an article. Getting the photos right is as important as choosing the right words.
Great shot of Pippi. Sometimes dogs are so silly.
Just checked pricing on the correct chain. $130 - $160. That's a bit more than the $28 one I ordered. Good thing I don't need those gold-plated main bearings...
From the IMS Retrofit site
https://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/
"In addition to ball-bearing failures, the intermediate shaft can suffer other failures including but not limited to slippage of drive sprockets which can lead to valve timing related failures. Again, as a cost saving measure, the sprockets were not secured to the intermediate shaft. The center bearing support stud was manufactured with an o-ring groove cut into it, reducing its cross-sectional thickness to less than the diameter of the threads used to secure the IMS bearing assembly. As such, it is common to have the center bearing support stud break during operation, resulting in a large oil leak, and is often an indicator of a failing or failed IMS bearing."
I had LN do mine. Also upgraded to the IMS Solution at the same time. Took advantage of their Black Friday sale.
Oh - and I just saw that movie a couple of weeks ago.
Yes - I am aware of that service. I am making some serious improvements and consciously opting out of others. There are the "nice to have" items, and then there are the "must have". I figure lots of new parts, refurbished heads, re-lined cylinders and the Solution are on
my
must have list. There are plenty of things that could be done given a bigger budget. If I were in that position, this engine would be on FSI's wait list. Instead, I bought the DVD set and will build it myself. I am thinking the slipping gears on the IMS is a low risk concern. Hopefully, I am not proven wrong.
"I am thinking the slipping gears on the IMS is a low risk concern. Hopefully, I am not proven wrong."
I wouldn't make that assumption. Doing it now (welding or pinning - I would think most machine shops that do automotive stuff would be able to do this accurately and inexpensively - especially compared to an engine failure) while everything is apart is a relatively simple proposition. Do you really want to take a chance after doing all this work?
I'll investigate further. It would be interesting to know of any documented cases. And by documented, I mean no other extenuating circumstances. For example; mechanical over-revving the engine.
Knowing your predilection for older movies, I would have thought you'd get that one.
dporto gets a dozen internet cookies
Re: IMS sprockets -- I'd at least have a good welder tack the smaller sprockets in place.
Sprockets
Yep - you got me on that one.
I'll look into it. I have very few welders that I trust. Might have to send it to northern Michigan.
Are there any known images of where and how much "tack" to apply? Would be good to offer instruction, if I go that way.
I know how you feel, luckily I have an uncle who is an aircraft welder--he also builds a lot of experimental aircraft --so I just go to him.
I know there is a pic from Jake somewhere on this forum (along with the 40 million other pics of everything else in the universe) but for the life of me I don't know where it is. Perhaps someone knows but I remember the bead being about 3/8 - 1/2 inch long, and maybe 2 welds on each sprocket. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I agree with you, it's a low risk, but seeing as the IMS is deep in the engine, it's is worth at least pinning the gears. especially on the single row IMS.
It's been my experience the slipped IMS gears and broken timing chains are usually collateral damage from locked up scavenge pumps (metal debris) or a locked up IMSB.
The dual row IMS has a heavier thicker shaft tube than the later single row. It's part of Porsche MO to develop/upgrade by finding ways and places to make things lighter, this is why the single row IMS was used.
Ideally you would want the scavenge pump drive snout to break-off if the pump were to begin to lock.( a fault line?)
Since you are using the IMSS, you have eliminated that possible cause of stress on the IMS gears.
Oh, and place a strong Molybdenum magnet on the outside of the welch plug at the inlet of the scavenge pump to stop any large metal debris from entering the scavenge pump.
You are doing all the right things, your engine will be a success story !!
Thanks, Doc. I'm taking every thing I can learn from those that have been there before. I'm also using my experience and knowledge to help guide me through the gray areas. My thought is that the IMS gears don't need any extra attention. Unless I see convincing information to tip me the other way, they will get no additional work.
Slipped timing gears are indeed an issue and runout of the sprockets/housing bore is something we check on every IMS. Any engine that is pulled apart should have this checked out and sprockets pinned.
The yellow arrow is the inlet channel to the scavenge pump. The red arrow is the welch plug that is placed there to seal the channel after machining of the channel. A strong Molybdenum magnet placed on the outside of the metal welch plug will catch any large ferrous debris from reaching the pump and locking it up.
It is just to reduce collateral damage, similar to installing a fuse in electrical circuits. The fuse doesn't help to power electrical devices or keep them from failing, it only helps to reduce collateral damage if a component fails/shorts to protect wiring/ect.
The magnet will help protect the pump from locking and causing other collateral damage like IMS gear slip or timing chain breakage, valve/piston contact..
I get the issue. I still contend that this is not likely to happen on its own. It's more likely to happen as a result of something else. I will check runout on the sprockets. I can apply $400 on other things. If I get scared, I'll reconsider. Right now, I'm not that scared. Thanks for all the concern/ warnings.
Just got my tools back from a certain rennlist member...we'll just call him Scott
And what I can best describe as a mostly Major Award. Thank goodness it wasn't a full leg but its really cool.
Thank you sir!
Charlie - thanks for posting this. That looks like four welds at 90 degrees. Still gathering information and keeping this under consideration. Any reason to be concerned about the front sprocket? Is that known to be an issue?
Found the thread in which this may have originated. Great stuff.
Yep, everything arrived in great shape. Glad I could help. My wife made me buy her dinner when she saw I had a little extra cash in my hand. Two hamburgers at MickeyDs sure costs a lot
I really like the challenge coin. Over the years I have accumulated a few; mostly from students that were ex-military and gave 'em to me as appreciation being on their side. They don't seem to expect that in college anymore. And being an almost full-grown man, I have a special appreciation for shiny objects that have a story and/or meaning. If I live another 30 years, I'll still have this coin--and the Porsche too, hopefully.
The main sprocket cannot be welded and that's the one that slips. You have to pin it. Also, we check for runout on the housing bore and sprockets. This isn't something you are doing at home.
So the main sprocket is driven by the crankshaft, correct? That is not a single machined piece with the rear cam chain sprocket, then. Correct? If this is the case, the image that was lifted from a post by Jake Raby shows the cam drive chain welded to the IMS. Is this also pinned to retain the crank sprocket?
Granted, this was from nine years ago, so maybe things are different now (how to address the issue). Picture shown again...
Yeah, it looks like you'd end up pinning the main sprocket and welding the cam drive sprockets. I know LN pins that main sprocket, I dont think they do anything to the other sprockets
Edit: Other than checking runout, I'm up in the air about this now
Ok - so the IMS is still not fully resolved. Let me know if I have this correct. The photo below shows three separate parts. Left to right: 1) the IMS tube, 2) the rear cam chain drive gear and, 3) the main drive sprocket. Correct so far?
It's very difficult to see the separation between the main sprocket and the cam gear. I will concede that it must be there. A few questions arise. The IMSS cap that is inserted into the IMS to close off the tube from extra oil is internal, but somewhere near the cam gear. By drilling to pin the main sprocket, is there any risk of hitting that cap? I can't take measurements since I installed the stud and external bearing. There are other decisions I need to make, but understanding where that lies with respect to any drilling of the main sprocket is important. I should be able to pull the bearing, but getting the cap out might not be possible without destroying it.
Ordered some AOS parts. Should have something to report on that before too long. Also should be able to get all of the con rods closely matched soon. They are all within 1.5 grams, so it won't take much to take a little off the heavy ones.
No comments on the IMS?
Well while you're all formulating your answers, I have some good news. Just got off the phone with a guy named, Len. He wanted to get some numbers from me so he could release my cylinder heads. He did say they were the best heads he's ever seen.
Well maybe not those exact words. He did indicate that core shift was observed, but it was in the good direction. He also said they were flow tested and came out on the positive side of the curve. So I might just have a couple of beers to celebrate, when I get home. Then I'll probably stand out at the end of the driveway waiting for the UPS truck to arrive.
Yeah, maybe not this last part.
We pin 100% of all shafts for Jake and most customers send us theirs to be checked and pinned. The main drive sprocket is indeed a separate piece and is not keyed or indexed and is swedged onto the pipe with about .250" engagement.
Charles - thank you for the information. At the time of assembly, there must be a method of indexing all three sprockets. Have you observed any keys/keyways in damaged of destroyed intermediate shafts? The factory may have used a fixture to maintain proper orientation of each component and then pressed them together. I can't image the sprockets were machined after the parts are pressed together as an assembly. But that would be one way to assure proper timing.
The cam timing adjustment feature at each bank will allow for a small amount of misalignment of the cam gears with respect to the crankshaft. It should also allow compensation, to a certain extent, for chain stretch.
I still am not clear on whether either of the two cam sprockets can rotate relative to their original installed orientation. Is this a concern? If they are keyed, it seems that risk would be reduced.
"
I still am not clear on whether either of the two cam sprockets can rotate relative to their original installed orientation. Is this a concern? If they are keyed, it seems that risk would be reduced." Scott @ team Harco
Charles @ LN Engineering
"
We pin 100% of all shafts for Jake and most customers send us theirs to be checked and pinned.The main drive sprocket is indeed a separate piece and
is not keyed or indexed
and is swedged onto the pipe with about .250" engagement.
"
^^^This seems like a fairly direct/unambiguous statement...
It says clearly and directly that "they are not keyed". From this statement you can extrapolate that the cam sprocket is a press/interference fit (like the main sprocket)... This has also been mentioned in several if not myriad threads over the years. I'd think a rudimentary search would turn up relevant results. Good luck
PS - get your IMS Sprocket pinned! It's a small price to pay while you're in there...
The main sprocket is not keyed. Why would I assume the cam sprockets would not be keyed, or otherwise indexed. Is it not possible for there to be a feature on the main sprocket to engage and locate the rear cam sprocket?
If you have a thread to share where this is clearly described, I would appreciate the information. Regarding the search function at this site - have you used it? Did it provide satisfactory results?
Hey there Team Harco, let me clear up the mystery. None of the gears are keyed, they are assembled on a fixture orienting the teeth on the IMS tube with a slip fit/light press fit, then a thicker sleeve is pressed into the inside of the tube thereby "swedging" ( expanding) the tube to lock the gears.
Excellent! The explanation I have been looking for.
Please excuse my ignorance. I like fact based and documented evidence to clear up ambiguities. These ambiguities may only exist in
my
mind. Those that have been there, and know these things, have been extremely helpful. I have great appreciation for all of you. You really have no idea.
Alright enough of that - let's see some parts.
Out with the old...
It got the super-soaker treatment.
Wait !!! Look at that !!! An old "53" part number AOS. Notice where the Atmosphere port is on that(notch), different from where they have been putting them for years/decades. I'm wondering how many more of these "Old ***" AOS's are still out there and haven't failed yet..
Scott , inspect that closely, or cut it open to see exactly where the port enters, my instructions for sealing the Atmosphere port in the channell will not apply to those old "53" parts.
Hey Doc - I'll very likely cut it open. I'll document that, if it will be of any value to your project. Or, I could send it to you as well. The new part has a "55" suffix. I am still looking at it to see where the atmospheric port is located (it must be very small). Once I find it, I'll probably use silver silicone sealer to seal the port. A good contrasting color should aid in visually identifying where to seal it, in case others want to know.
On the old part? The one that failed?
The mystery is where it's located on the new part. I have this to go on:
First step is to seal off the atmosphere port on the AOS, seal inside of this channel (yellow) and seal around the seam at Red area.
Matching that description and the arrows on my part may require some powerful glasses. My first look didn't provide me with confidence that I had found the right places to seal it. Once I figure it out, I'll post photos and details.
Yes, I love failure analysis, you will be able to see the tear in the rubber diaphragm, and also locate the Atmosphere port to help others who still have a good "53" AOS and want to install the UAOS after sealing the port.
Yes, the notch at 6 o-clock should indicate the port is right behind there in that crevice.
Correct, seal the channell and the notch/seam at 7 o-clock...
Scott, you have the new AOS in hand out of the car and can't find the port? I don't feel quite as bad now for having difficulty finding it installed in the car with borescope
You're not kidding. I spent a little more time messing with it today. Not a whole lot, but some. I plugged most of the ports and then blew in the last open one to see if I could hear air escaping out a port. Inconclusive. I'll keep messing with it. I might have to bring out a magnifying glass and maybe even apply a low pressure air supply. This will get solved.
Crazy, isn't it? The inventor and I have traded a few notes. We're working on some ideas to document this in detail. Instructions with lots of visual aids are coming.
I was preoccupied with something else for much of my free-time today. Got a couple of boxes delivered from Hamheads.
New guides and springs. Lots of clean-up and resurfacing.
They look as good as new.
For real !!! The automatic brightness/flash/focus on my smart phone camera screws up more than it helps.Outside in natural light it does good, but indoors when in the evening trying to take pictures of parts or under the cars hood ect , it SUX big time. I've never had a decent camera, wouldn't know how to use it, or what one looks like.Some people make it look easy though.
Is there such a thing as a simple point and shoot camera that takes good pictures and doesn't cost a left nut?
I'm sure there is. I had a reasonably good point and shoot a few years ago. I would think the technology has only gotten better. It was an Olympus. It was pretty good until the brain failed. In the camera...
Then I got my current digital SLR (Nikon). I started with a Pentax SLR film camera many years ago. It was fully manual. You had to set shutter speed, aperture and focus. The cost of film and processing led to improved skills. Now with digital photography, film is real cheap. Skills aren't as critical either.
I'll try to investigate some ideas. I haven't kept up with what's out there, in years.
A piece of the "foggy" scotch tape will tone down the flash for engine pics.. or a white post-it note.. depending on how much you want to tone it down.
I need to document the AOS modifications here, too.
Just as instructed by the good Doctor, Skip, there are two tiny vents that should be sealed. By my nature, I am skeptical until I am satisfied with the evidence. I tested it myself and concur with this step.
Seal inside the lower channel to close off one tiny port. You can see a trace of this in the gap below the upper lip of that small channel. The external bead of sealer covers another vent that is around the tab on the circular cover plate.
Anyone else consider photos of those refurb'd heads "engine ****"? I know some of you see this all the time. I don't, and love it when I do. Especially in a well-documented, live DIY.
Hey J - detail of the channel is shown in the image below. More images can be found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ps-tricks.html
Probably a real pain to access when in the car.
I finally ordered the correct IMS chain. Lumped a few other things on the order. All the AOS coolant hoses, the coolant reservoir and cap. A few other little things.
So after dropping the engine, I came across a tube that wasn't hooked to anything. It's in the middle of the two aluminum coolant pipes. There's a clip there with an open spot. I didn't take anything out of there. Any idea what that's for?
Zoomed out a bit to get a better idea of the location.
OK - I have to confess, I know very little about AC systems. Just enough to be dangerous. You'll have explain what you mean by "drain line". I might interpret that to be the drain from the cabin HVAC unit. The following photos start at the rear (AC compressor) and go forward. What you are after is probably at the front, maybe near the fuel tank area. Let me know exactly what you're looking for.
Compressor with fuel cooler
Connection #2 just above bank #2 of the engine.
Connection #3 near the RR jack point.
I didn't shoot anything forward of this, specific to the AC system. I did remove the front undertray and took 10 lbs of dirt out of the car. So I've got that going for me...
Hey Yaz -
I've been using this product at about 5% solution:
Amazon
Amazon
For hardware and smaller items, I have usually put gasoline in little plastic jars and tossed them in the bath. With a smaller vessel, you have many solvent options. I would imagine you could just use water with Simple Green or Dawn dish soap for most cleaning.
Agree. I mentioned how little I know about AC systems.
Hell I live in Michigan, after all. Most of my cars get the AC yanked out to save weight. Learning much about them was never a priority.
So this is what you're looking for. You'll want to get access to whatever would be near a passenger's left foot. This is looking rearward.
Same area looking forward.
This thread has become my favorite on the "list". Lots of neat little tidbits, not "just" the build, which is great by itself.
I'm giving it the full 5 stars. Keep it going everyone.
PS...I take it the post office didn't make the delivery yet? I haven/t heard on my end.
Thank you, not what I expected to see and would have missed it.
Scott, thank you and sorry I wasn't clear. My knowledge of the AC system starts and stops at the dash buttons...
I too look forward to these daily updates, great topic!
Alright bitches - you'll be pleased to know I listened.
The main sprocket is now pinned to the IMS.
There's still a little fine-tuning that needs to take place. When the pins are flush externally, they interfere with the IMSS stud. I pushed them out a little to be sure the stud mount will have clearance. I'll probably grind off some of what protrudes so there will be no fouling of the cam chain.
Thankfully, the postal service 'cares'. A package arrived from Arizona. It might need something a little more secure to make sure it gets back home...
Thanks, Gary! And thanks to the rest of you guys that are helping me along...
Holy Moley...that was my bad Scott. Trying to save a little money in the process, also had other things on my mind. I'm so glad it got to you and the work looks great. Heck, I gonna bring my motor to your house and have you rebuild that for me, I can probably afford a beer or two for the labor
No worries, mate. It got here. That's the main thing. It will get back in the same shape (not the packaging).
You've got a lot going. Take care of yourself and keep your stick on the ice.
Beer is pretty good barter around here. You might need to bring an entire brewery though...
Good stuff - thanks for posting that.
That's right - the handyman's helper.
And if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Did a little clean-up of the pins. Nice fit, internally.
Not quite surgical precision, but not horrible. The pins should hold as intended. No risk of cam chain interference.
Spent a little time today preparing for a big event. The block halves should be delivered tomorrow. I could have taken a small step by putting #4-6 con rods in, but I wanted to get closer to having everything in-place to cover Stage 2 of the M9X build procedure.
I think the only part I'm waiting on, to complete that step, is the IMS chain. Should be here next Wednesday. Some of the parts for that...
Did some actual work. Something that could have been done a few days ago. Installed the bank #2 con-rods.
Followed along with the DVD, step by step. I've had some free time to watch various segments over and over. I placed my rolling workbench in position to keep a close eye on the TV while I proceed through each step. Guess what's next?
Left off here: I still don't have the IMS chain, so that is keeping this step (Stage 2) from being completed. It's not that I can't find other things to keep me occupied...
Just did a loose fit of the IMS chain guides.
Ja!
I don't think they've been painted. I did have to pay extra to have them cleaned up before they could even work on them.
It would have been nice to know this ahead of time. I could have put more effort into that.
So what do you do when you get these nice block halves returned after everything is cleaned up and new cylinders are installed? Well, you start hacking into it.
Good fit for the oil feed line. All parts installed finger-tight for verification purposes.
I also spun the oil filter adapter into place. Since I had the box open, and because I could...
I'll be sure to ask when I call them. I have a few questions, and one of them is about the cleaning/ finishing. Sure is purty...
The last couple of days have been spent inspecting, trial fitting and balancing things. Lots of testing and double checking.
The ring sets were all checked without removing them from their sealed bags. We'll see how they play out. I wouldn't expect a 0.3 gm. delta from the high and low.
We're set up to vapor blast, jet wash, and ultrasonic wash. Heavily soiled blocks have to be deep cleaned before machining as the oil can contaminate the coolant in our CNCs.
Blocks also get washed before and after machining and also after sleeves are finish honed by the platers. When blocks come back to us, we pressure test them and all bores are measured for ovality, taper, and surface finish. We have our own standards for surface finish.
It is critical that all the oil and coolant passages as well as all surfaces are thoroughly cleaned as it's possible there's contamination from the reconditioning process. Also, the bores will have honing oil/Nikasil dust mix embedded in the cylinder honing crosshatches. This is very abrasive and will cause accelerated cylinder, piston, and ring wear, resulting in poor ring seal and all your hard work having to be done all over again. This can be a costly mistake if not done correctly.
Years ago Jake and I had a mutual customer that was rebuilding an aircooled engine. Engine would only last about 1,000 miles and would begin to consume copoius amounts of engine oil. We kept on redoing the cylinders and replacing parts and eventually Jake had the customer come build the engine at his shop in GA. Jake told him to clean all the parts and to let him know when it was ready to go together. In less than an hour, he said it was all clean. Jake grabbed a cylinder and wiped it down. The answer why he kept having problems was because he wasn't cleaning the cylinder bores properly. The nikasil dust/honing oil mix was eating the rings up and resulting in bores that needed to be refinished due to scuffing. Moral of the story is "Cleanliness is next to Godliness."
Charles - thanks for adding this. Great information.
I do have a few questions: If you are willing to help resolve them, that would be awesome. Otherwise, I can place a call. I had a fun conversation with George a couple of days ago. Wouldn't mind doing that again, but your answers may help others that find themselves in the same situation as me.
1) The box that the block halves were shipped in - I want to return it. I think there is a "core" charge on it. What's the best way to close this out?
2) I recall seeing a plug for the piston pin installation tool in bank #2. I don't recall removing it, haven't found it in my box of parts and it's not in the block. Is there a chance it was removed and not returned with the block?
3) The studs at the front of the block, to hold the front console, had to be removed. I didn't know that I should have taken care of this. It would be helpful to indicate this on your website so others don't make this mistake. Had I known, I would have at least made an effort to get them out. Now that they are out, is there a preferred method for reinstalling them? My plan would be to clean the threads (both internal and external), place a little oil on the stud threads and torque them to spec by using double nuts on the opposite end. Is this an acceptable procedure?
4) Finally, not a question - just an observation - beautiful work! Amazing how clean and nice everything came out. Another thing that would be useful for others, add a note on your website suggesting that customers pre-clean the block halves prior to shipping to you. Had I known an extra charge would be incurred; I would have put more effort in to that, as well.
One more parting shot: I got another rack to keep things organized. This is currently used for new parts and those next-up in the assembly process.
Thanks to all who are participating on this thread. You guys are so helpful and inspirational that I can't wait to read any new updates on it. What a great community and fantastic job that you are doing on your engine Scott. Keep us posted.
jim
The wrist pin access plug has to be removed during the process. It is normally in a small zip lock bag, but it's possible it got misplaced if it wasn't removed prior to shipping to us. We can get you a replacement sent out - not an issue.
There is a small core charge on the box somewhere under $100 (I don't know the exact cost on these, but it's expensive), but shipping is close to the cost of the box due to dimensional weight, so most choose not to send it back. Normally shops hold onto them for the next block to send in.
Double nutting the studs is the best way to re-install them unless there is some fancy snap on tool to do this (which I'm sure there is).
Thanks for the suggestion. We do provide instructions with the pre-paid block block box shipping (where we send the customer the empty box with block preforms) that provides guidelines for what needs to be removed and about cleaning the block. These guidelines are on the website too. There is lots of information on there - I'll work to make it easier to find.
Thanks for staying tuned-in Charles. I'll do another check for the plug. I'm fairly certain it's not in the box. I did find the studs in with the pistons.
You're absolutely right - there is a lot of information at your website. I could have easily missed the two details I mention.
Got a package of parts today. Mostly coolant related. One thing, that has delayed the completion of stage 2, was delivered. The IMS internal gear chain.
Stage 2 completed:
Preparing for the next stage: Bank #1 pistons and rods.
Installing the pistons, the pins and clips outside the block will be no problem. Doing it for real - inside the cylinders (bank #2) will be the challenge. I'll be practicing with this for a while. Since the bank #2 block is open, it's the perfect time to learn from mistakes.
Messed with a ring set just to get familiar with each piece.
This makes me very happy. If I don't have to mess with end gap, it will be great. Still need to check all rings in their respective bores. But this is encouraging.
The ultimate thread. Scott I know your spending some good money with competent people.
You must love the body style and I do too.
I hope you many trouble free safe miles.
Just Awesome
Porsche should consult with LN on how to properly build an engine.
My budget is tight and I just barely squeezed into a 996.
I can understand spending the money. Great Car.
Since Scott mentioned not being able to find some of the information posted on our website, I've uploaded a bunch of bulletins and guides that I've written over the last few years pertaining to the M96 all to one place. These are available for download through the LN website, but I thought I would make it easy and share them from dropbox so they are all in one place.
http://bit.ly/m96info
What I have noticed over the years is that many people spend big money on an engine, but when it comes time to put it in, they skip out on replacing sensors, injectors, intake seals, etc. and don't take the required steps to ensure a successful installation like smoke testing engines to ensure there are no vacuum leaks. To give an example, another big mistake made is how you prime these engines for pressure. You can't just pull the spark plugs and crank it over, even though we explicitly state not to in our instructions. You will wipe out all the bearings if you do. What I might think is common knowledge may not be known by the person rebuilding and installing an engine. Although it's a long read, the RND Instructions are quite thorough and have received many revisions every time we have encountered a problem caused by an installer.
There it is - item #5 on the shipping instructions sheet. Looks as though I'll need to buy some locators too.
I have plans to replace injectors, the coolant tank and most of the other things listed. Still investigating knock sensors, O2 sensors, etc.
Spent some time checking the mass of each part of the piston/ rod assemblies. Shy of the rings, I got these three assemblies to within 0.1 grams of each other. Putting the lightest piston with the heaviest rod and pin set the baseline.
Two down, one to go.
I spent a lot of time messing with the clips and practicing with the insertion tool. I'm going to need a lot more practice. The first one I tried, I failed at getting the clips in the groove. They were actually on the ledge just outside the pin hole. Not a good start. All ended well though.
Stage 3 completed. The next steps are big.
Well, I'm at a bit of a standstill. I can still measure and clean things, which I have been doing. But the mounting of a case-half will require a new fixture. One is on the way. Hopefully it will do the job. A regular engine stand attachment won't work. This was expected.
Most of today was spent watching disc 2 of the M9X engine assembly series. Stage 9 and, especially, Stage 10 are huge.
Still found time to work on the coolant system, a little. Should be a good time to hit this. With no engine in the way, the coolant reservoir ought to be easy to replace.
Got a nice new piece a few days ago.
After a bit of wrestling, it went in.
I've got a new coolant level sensor on the way and will order a fuel filter. Had planned to keep the old filter, since it's only about a year old. After looking at where I am and recalling how much fun the last one was to replace - with the engine in - it's a no-brainer.
A lot of yesterday was spent going through the PET and identifying part numbers for new things. Ordered a few parts and a few tools. One tool was another borescope. After watching Stage 10, yesterday, I find that I must have the mirror attachment. Since I couldn't find the little set that came with the first one, I will now have two scopes and one attachment kit. A 24mm combination wrench and a new feeler gauge set arrived today. I've been using feeler gauges that I got in high school. My old eyes need fresh print...
Played with the new AOS and installed the two coolant hoses to it. Attached the old hard pipe to help locate things. Cut open the original AOS unit in a couple of places. Will share that in one if the UAOS threads.
Decided to practice with the piston tools. The guide needed to be modified to fit in the con-rod and piston. My trial was to see how difficult it would be to insert the rearward clips while the pistons were in the bore (upside-down). There will be no luxury of observing from the bottom of the bore.
My first trial was cylinder #6. I failed to get the clip in on the first try. After a little sanding of the insertion tool, I was able to succeed in the remaining trials. The tool was just a little too large to fully insert into the piston and bottom out on the land. I will, at least, have access through the bores when it's time to go for real. The borescope will be needed to verify no mistakes.
The last one: #4. This will be a true test when it's for keeps. I need to be fully prepared to do battle.
Didn't do much yesterday. Still gathering parts, chemicals and tools as I wait for the engine stand fixture to arrive. It's due on Monday. I did discover that I left the heat on in the garage overnight. Not good. Wasted a bunch of propane for no reason....
I've been able to gather some information, through my
Columbo
skills, for my assembly. They might get mentioned as they come into play.
While waiting for the engine fixture to arrive, I've gotten a few parts and gapped the rings. Put the new coolant level sensor in today. Got a low-temp thermostat yesterday, along with the little cam caps.
Checked all the rings. Had to grind the top two rings. They're all near the minimum as defined by the manufacturer for a 4" bore.
Just when I thought I was done for the night...
I checked my Amazon orders, and it claimed that my knock sensors had arrived. What? Where are they? My wife visited the mailbox. Sure enough, they were there.
I'll be sure to observe the safety warning on the Bosch box. I won't let a guy in a suit near it. But it looks as though I can let a guy in overalls and a hardhat, hauling around a very large wrench, help me to open the box. But since I don't have a guy like that around, I had to do it myself.
She then informed me that there was a package from Home Depot that was left on the tractor side of the barn. What? I didn't order anything from Home Depot!
All true, but now I can get started on cleaning the block halves and go forward with the next stages of assembly. Just need to work out some spacers so I can use the transmission bolts (or find suitable alternatives).
Yea!
Yes - and if you look again at the box, you will see in the lower left; "Wahler". The housing also has the original manufacturer's brand or part number ground off. Probably how they get around selling it for a more reasonable price.
FYI just for your clarification Borg-Wagner acquired Wahler back in 2013:
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom/...cquires-wahler
It is sold from the suppliers as Wahler.
Thank you for your website order!
__________________
Charlie - I have two options. I'll be exploring them soon. Plan A, is to take the 944 S2 engine off my old stand and hang it on the new, cheap Harbor Freight unit I bought when I built my A4 engine. The nice thing about the old stand is that is uses a clamp to lock rotation of the sleeve rather than relying on a pin. Allows for very fine adjustment. Plan B, would only come into play if the sleeve sizing is a mismatch. At which point I will drill holes in the new fixture to allow for pinning in a few spots so the engine will sit either horizontally or vertically. Should have updates on that later today.
Bill - Actually I do not. There was a thread in this section where someone was looking for a used fixture. I followed the trail and it led me down VW Alley. I sent the guy an email asking a few questions and after I was convinced he was legit, I sent him some money via PayPal. He's located in Oregon. So far, I am happy with the piece, but time will tell, how happy. It should play prominently in the engine build and I will definitely offer my opinion of it going forward.
Off to the garage, I've got a bunch of pushing, lifting and swapping to do...
Hey Scott, things are looking great.
I thought I'd chime in on this one. I have the same stand arm from VA alley. Here's the guys site
http://manyringding.tripod.com/vwally/index2.html
He mostly does VW tools, but you can find hiim on TheSamba.com. You wont see his porsche stand on his site but just email him and he'll build you one.
I haven't drilled a hole in the tube to act as a stop and I haven't found that I need too either. I've torn down and reassembled my 996 motor five times now (as practice and to fill the time until I can afford the Nickies)and the friction of the tube in the stand has been good enough to get through the various stages without needing a stop. But, they do say to drill the hole to match your base if you need.
The price for the stand was right and the guy makes them as they are ordered, I couldn't recommend high enough.
I got it for around 250 delivered. But I have a few uses for it, seems like you could sell it on down the line since Jake has been cursing everyone's engine with bore scoring
Right you are, Gary. The fixture seems to be good. I will know more soon. I'm taking a break right now. Most of the day was spent blasting 6 months worth of dust and dirt out of the garage. I probably only got about 5 months worth of it.
Then I wheeled out my S2 engine and an engine hoist to transfer that engine to the Harbor Freight stand. Life has gotten in the way of completing that project. I pulled that engine close to three years ago and had planned to rebuild it during that winter. Then I had my garage/workshop built. Then I outfitted my shop and bought
Speedy.
Then my (first) A4 was totaled a year ago and I had to build an engine for its replacement. Things just keep piling up. I plan to see this build through and then will have at that project next (assuming something else doesn't come along).
So then it turned out the tube was too big to fit in my old engine stand. I chose to grind it to fit, rather than drill to make it work in the HF stand.
Not pretty, but it should work.
Checked it on bank #1. It fits fine. That's what it is intended for. I wanted to use shorter bolts. They're M12-1.5. I have dozens of M12 bolts but they're either too fine or too coarse. I'll order a few so I won't mess up the transmission bolts and tidy things up a bit.
Only two bolt holes line up on bank #2. I just want this so I can clean this half thoroughly. Once cleaned, it will get set aside and bank #1 will take its proper place on the stand for the rest of the assembly procedure.
Last Tuesday we only got a few hours notice that we would all be telecommuting starting the NEXT DAY. It was total chaos in the office and sadly the red stapler was left behind in all the confusion. I
am
however working on my TPS report as we speak.
This a shot of my office last Tuesday after we got the word about telecommuting starting the next day.
Slowly moving forward with getting the block halves cleaned so I can move forward with the next step. First round of cleaning bank #2. The wipes are coming out quite clean. Will do a round of hot soapy water and more bore cleaning when it comes time to move on this bank.
Time to start cleaning bank #1.
A lot of green stuff around the bottom of the bores. Probably left over coolant/ lubricant from the bore polishing process.
The locators showed up today. Also visible is the piston clip tool showing the evidence of a little clean-up. Just a little work with 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper took it down enough to sit nicely against the piston pin boss. Still need to keep practicing, to gain more experience with one of the most critical steps in the whole build.
The nice new locators installed in place. It really ties the room together, does it not?
Noticed some of the green on mine as well, but nowhere near as much as yours. Also used hot soapy water to clean the bores initially, then not a whole lot else using the Kimwipes and carburetor cleaner.
I used a lot of carb clean and Kimwipes on bank #2 yesterday, and the day before. Will use hot soapy water and clean the bores again. Hit bank #1 with hot soapy water yesterday. Finished the bores today. Started with alcohol. Then when I thought I was close, I switched to carb clean. I thought for sure I was going to go through a whole box of Kimwipes. Finally happy with the cleanliness, I completed Stage 4.
Set the crankcase carrier alongside the block to permit ease of transfer.
While waiting for my wife to get free from her meeting, to help lift in the crankcase carrier, I installed the spiral ring for the IMS bearing.
My wife helped me lift in the crankcase carrier. I started installing the two long bolts that hold the rear of the carrier snugly to the block half...
...then I realized the gasket at the windage tray was out of place. I had to lift everything up a little and position the gasket properly. Shown here, just below the IMS.
Stage 5 complete.
Done for the night. Should be able to have at Stage 6 and 7 tomorrow. Will verify ring gaps are good in bank #1. They were checked in Bank #2 already. Measure and confirmation...
I'll take that chance. Thanks for the heads-up.
Yep - even closer now. I completed Stage 6 and 7 just a little while ago. Verified the top two compression rings were gapped correctly for bank #1. Installed the rings in piston #1, lubricating with the "special sauce".
The ring compression tool is a joy to work with.
Everything went well. No snags, other than forgetting to put oil on rod cap #1. I realized my mistake before I started torquing the bolts. Then my DVD player stopped showing video. I'll probably haul my laptop out to the garage for the next steps - at least until I find a resolution to that problem.
I'm on vacation from work for a little over a week.
Have been working from home for the last three weeks. Now I might be able to get something done.
Started the day be cleaning some parts in the ultrasonic device. Did the front console (again) so it would be ready for the next stage of assembly. Did the cams and coolant parts.
I've watched Stage 8 quite a few times to prepare for completing the engine block assembly. I've decided to break it up into three halves. The first half is getting the front console attached and the IMSB installed. A little lube, then...
...finger tight with two fasteners.
IMS flange and IMSS in place. Had to slide it out a little bit to get a socket on the oil feed fitting. Should have taken a bit more off the notch than I did. If I need to get at that area again, I'll have bigger things to be worried about.
The second of three halves is thoroughly cleaning bank #2 again. To the point of being ready to insert the pistons. Even though that's off for at least a couple of days. It was nice enough today; warm and sunny, to work outside a little. Made washing the block half a bit more enjoyable.
Getting all the parts and chemicals ready to complete the third half of Stage 8.
Here's the second half completed.
The third half will be applying sealant between the case halves and fastening them together. Other than leaving oil and grease exposed (at both ends of the IMS), this is a logical break-point.
Does the Raby vidoe/instructions say to install the front console BEFORE putting bank 2 case half together? Are you sure bout that?
Porsche has a very trick high dollar tool that aligns the two case halves perfectly that uses the front IMS bore to align. I guess Raby does not use that, but seems I tried the procedure many many years ago install front console first to use as a guide/centering device, but seems I remember it pinching the o-rings...
Quite sure. The logic is to reduce any risk of breaking off the plain bearing at the front of the IMS. Ask Yaz about this...
Care will be taken to avoid pinching the o-rings. I think there is less chance of that happening than cutting them during an insertion process. Should know for sure, later today.
I can tell you have never listened to "Car Talk".
"
I can tell you have never listened to "Car Talk"."
Oh yes I halve!... (see what I did there?
) I loved Click & Clack ,The Tappet Bruthaaas! Yeah, I missed your reference - it was kinda subtle
The build is coming along nicely - keep on rockin'
The third half of Stage 8 is done. It went fairly well. My son came over to clear a fault code on his car. While he was here, I had him help a little. A second set of hands and eyes are always good.
I had everything ready to go and it all went quickly. Getting the sealant through its little hole was the worst part of the task. After everything was torqued to spec, I started looking at the next Stage.
I've been messing with the tools for quite a while. Now it's time to go for real.
Borescope was invaluable.
Here is #6 rod lined up with the piston.
Here's #6 piston pin clip not in its groove. A few bad words were spoken. I knew right away it hadn't gone in all the way. There was a gap at the handle of the insertion tool
Feelin' good Louis! I saw your trick with the bicycle spoke. I don't have a bike - at least not without an engine. But I do have a $1.99 pick set.
I verified the clips were magnetic before I inserted the first one today. Here is the clip on the magnet. Hard to tell, from the image. I got the clip out and got to live another day.
Here it is, in the groove!
Got #5 in with no problem. Well other than getting the end of the damn insertion tool lodged in between cylinder #4 and #5. Actually had to work it loose with a pair of channel locks. Then it needed to be hammered round again...
Just about to install the last piston (#4).
One hole left to fill.
#4 piston pin clip in place. Today I have become a man.
Once I start playing in the dirt again, I'm going to ruin any semblance of cleanliness. You definitely have me on the front console.
Went forward with Stage 12, so I can rest-up for the next big stage.
Completion of the front console installation...
New low-temp thermostat and one year old Pierburg waterpump.
Finished up for the day with the oil filter adapter. Did a sanity check on the oil feed line. Had to shorten the bolt through the block halves in the area of the notch. It interfered with the nut on the braided line. I left no margin at the blue fitting, it's snug against the notch.
One step shy of full completion of Stage 12 is the torquing of the crank pulley bolt. I wasn't sure if I inserted the seal deep enough. From the video, it looks as though there is a slight recess of the seal. The Raby tool would make it precise and effortless, I mean faultless. I'm essentially flush to the boss. Hope that will do.
Time to order more parts. I'm getting much closer to needing them. Need to search on the RMS installation tool options, as well.
Was that groove on the front of the crank pronounced enough to cause a problem if the new seal edge landed on it? Is this something we need to worry about?
Have you found a specified depth for the front seal anywhere? I know FVD sells an install tool, but haven't found anything to say its necessary.:
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD721T251...l-986-996.html
The groove at the front is more evident than at the RMS. I was surprised at this.
And with this knowledge, I think I will want to keep the seal where it is. Especially, if its preferred location is a little deeper. It should keep the sealing lip outward from the groove and reduce the risk of a leaker.
Wow. That's real nice, but it had better have more uses than just that, at that price. Cleanly that tool isn't necessary to install the seal. The question still remains: at what depth? I don't know the answer, but I think I might just leave it flush, as it is. Willing to entertain better ideas...
George told me the RMS rental isn't the faultless tool, but actually a 3D printed tool similar to what I made. Had the option for the free rental but would have had to pay for the seal (already included in my gasket set) and return shipping.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I will chime in on how big a deal it is, but it looks like your oil baffle is the old style. Maybe this would be a good time to 'upgrade'?
The new style with a 997 part number
Our loaner RMS tool is based off the factory Porsche tool and functions exactly the same way. Bolt it on the crank with the seal and tighten to draw the seal to the correct depth. We had to come up with another solution as people were not returning them and R&S was on backorder for months on them. :-)
I have a nylon RMS install tool also that you can use if needed. I bought on here from Chris a few years ago and have not ever used it .
I think it is machined from nylon rather then 3D print, but doesn't matter, it sets the correct 13mm depth.
The Porsche Factory RMS tool (like the faultless L&N tool) is a joy to use, but is totally overkill for this operation..
The Porsche Factory tool was redesigned several times to change the depth of installation several times to try and correct RMS seal leaking. But the final cure was the redesign(several) of the RMS in PTFE with a "self centering" inner portion to combat any out of tolerance crank carrier bore to case bore difference
.
The flaps might be heavier? I can't say. Presumably there would be some advantage/ improvement. It may not work with the swirl-pots that I have. Again, don't know. Regardless, things are closed up at the sump. I'm going to need a really good reason to get back in there.
Like the mug.
Thanks brother. Hang on to it. Just keep it on the shelf so you can show me, next time I'm in your neighborhood.
That's a great offer, Doc. If I don't find one more local, you'll get a PM.
So I have to say, I've been on a pretty good roll for the past few days. Things have aligned, parts are on hand, tools and chemicals have been trickling in.
Now it's on to the next stage. Number 13, if you're scoring at home. Installation of the heads on to the block. Setting up most of the little things...
A bit of a shame to conceal such beauty. Bank #1 head ready for installation.
Bank #2 shown, but the headgaskets are identical for either bank.
Final torque on bank #2. My index (witness) marks differ from the sensei master's teachings. They work for me.
I'll say it again. The DVD set for assembling this engine is the best money spent.
I can't say about the flaps either. The only thing I see from a purely visual standpoint is that the corner that has the bulge has some material removed on the 'new' version. My rational was that if I can blow $50 on a door sill umbrella, I can blow $30 on something that might be an upgrade for the engine.
I was able to push ahead the past few days. Now it's time for a little rest and study. Hadn't viewed any of the steps after installing the (bare) heads. Spent some time last night and today looking at that. For my engine, a 5-chain, there's a separate disc just for that work. It's broken into 3 chapters. I watched all of chapter one. Only applied a small amount of it to the installation.
All I did was install the lifter carriers to each head. Did a little parts sorting and organizing, but little more.
I could have done a little more cleaning and organizing, but it was good to just relax.
Evidently my lefthand M5 threaded rod is on the way. Then I can finish off the cam installation and set timing.
Right now - it's just nice to putz around and look at things.
Good for you. I hope your build is a success as well.
I took the whole day off from the engine build. It might have hit 70 F. Yeah! And sunny. Did some gardening. Decided to throw down some plastic mulch so I will have a lot fewer weeds by my Hobbit greenhouse.
Planted a bunch of flower seeds near the bench and put spinach, turnips and peas in the tires. There's a nice clump of chives in the one on the left.
Nothing to report, other than parts and tools are on the way. Really just being held up by the cam tension tool. It's "in the mail".
A fuel filter is due on Monday. I'll be able to complete a few tasks when that shows up. The first order of oil was placed last night. I added some assembly grease to get the free shipping.
Here are some shots to keep interest up...
The picture at the bottom showing your phone with the picture of the wrist pin and clip , looks like the wrist pin isn't all the way in and the clip is not seated, looks too close to the edge , might just be the photo but thought I'd mention just incase !
Got a box of fluids today. Quick shipment from LN. Still waiting for the M5 threaded rod to get serious with the installation of the cams.
I could go forward with putting the lifters in, now that I have enough assembly grease. I'll just wait until I can do a few steps while the grease is open.
Getting ready, but still waiting on a tool:
Still waiting.
I'd better order my exhaust hardware soon, if this is how long it takes to get a threaded rod.
The postal service is the most likely hold-up. I did get some parts today. I was able to install the fuel filter and a new oil pressure relief valve spring and plunger.
Still no threaded rod. But I did get a few deliveries. First, the propane guy filled up my workshop tank. Good thing, it was very low and it's been snowing all day. Then UPS brought me a nice present from a member in Florida. Nice packaging and delivered quickly. Thanks M.
Took stock of some parts. Getting a list together for exhaust hardware and coolant hoses.
Just putting this out there. Don't, I repeat, don't try to reuse those broken, rusted bolts. They may look like they work but they wont.
Ask me how I know
Really enjoying the build my friend.
Not a chance. I just ordered all new hardware a few hours ago. There are some bolts that are fine - but anything rusty, is going in the trash.
I'm enjoying it too.
I'd like it a lot more if I could move forward with the installation of the cams. Maybe the postal service can find my threaded rod...
I sent a package out today. You should see it in a few days.
Didn't take any photos, but I cleaned some coolant pipes, AOS plumbing and exhaust parts. Also installed the M10 studs at the 'front' of the engine for the support. Did a little more organizing and verified what still needs to be ordered. Hopefully I'll see the package I've been waiting on, soon.
Say the word and I'll ship the rods and nuts (that sounds bad) out to you in the morning, gratis. I'll even get the packaging correct. I got my economic impact payment (corona virus check) and its burning a hole in my pocket. Even if there are more pressing needs for that money.
The race is on. Will Arizona beat Massachusetts?
Did a quick-fit of the skid plate.
I'll sculpt a couple of closed-cell foam blocks to maintain a gap and reduce the amount of debris collected by the plate. Heat build-up may become a problem. Frequent checks will be needed, otherwise I'll have to keep an air-gap.
Waiting...
Good advice.
Fuzzy/ dirty side down. There's a common saying in rallying: there are two types of rallyists: those that have rolled and those that will. After all these years, I'm still in the latter group. I did put a car on its side though. So I'm halfway there...
Funny i have been on my side or all the way over so many times it doesnt even raise my blood pressure. Is that bad? They have all been slow speed rock crawling comps luckily and none at high speed.
btw thx for the good shots of the skid. I welded up some tabs to use my factory skid with my deep sump but i think i need something stonger. Probably gonna make my own ss one similar to ln. Hopefully with less nvh
.
Alright! Got a package from Dr. Skip. Should be able to install the rear main seal quite soon.
I loose assembled most of the UAOS, plus my parts, to its approximate orientation. The pipe in front, would actually be installed to the opposite bank of the engine (#2). This includes the valve in the foreground. That installs at the top of the bank #2 head near the rear of the car
This is about all you should see, once it's in the car (except that little coolant hose at the upper left).
Thanks to our good Doctor for the great product.
We had the same issue when I sent Scott some tools a while back. Turned out to be my bad.
Pro-Tip: Don't keep your old mailing labels on your desktop, or try to half-a$$ the packaging.
Good news that USPS came through.
Since the mail lady came up the driveway to deliver the UAOS, I knew the threaded rod was not coming today. I have an inquiry in with both USPS and the supplier (BelMetric). I'm putting my money on Gary's shipment coming through first.
RMS is in.
Oh, man. They're coming from all over to pile-on.
Gary and I have traded notes about westerns. Two unrelated comments in the last post.
How's that 911 engine model coming? I would expect you to have it running by now.
I love that movie. Just watched
Man From Laramie, Destry Rides Again
and True Grit this week. Dang I love me a good western. I understood you though.
I was doing some work on the car last week and my wife was watching TV with the dogs (they also love westerns) and I walked past saw Richard Widmark and said "Oh, Cheyenne Autumn, great movie." She couldn't believe I knew the movie by just the single image I saw. How could I not!
Where's your messiah now? Wait, What?
That seems to be the major complaint with this kit. I was thinking about getting one a year ago and finding a way to silence the motor/drive sounds.
Still, must have been fun to build...and you did it so much faster than Scott has been going with his motor
I'm going to try to find something better than the current sound which is an engine turning over with a really weak battery.
(BTW, I added a little footage at the end that shows the valve train)
lol, that was the first thing that popped in my mind.
Yeah, well, that's because he didn't need a lefthanded M5 threaded rod...
That really is nice. I used to build a lot of scale models, when I had free time. Now all of my free time seems to be occupied by 1:1 scale cars. My basement is full of half started models. And my kids gave me a bunch of Lego Porsche kits last Christmas. Guess how far I am on those?
Only three days for this delivery of hardware. It's been two weeks since I ordered the threaded rod. I've got two exhaust gaskets, spark plugs and a heat exchanger coming from FCP. A bunch of stuff from Sunset, Pelican, Amazon and ECS. Should be able to move forward soon.
I was looking out the widow and saw two turkeys rolling in the dirt on our track. I couldn't get close to them with my camera. But I did scare up a couple of deer.
The horses, that stay out at night, had no interest whatsoever.
The weather is finally turning for the better around here. I've spent a lot of the last couple of days messing in the yard and garden. Still have a long way to go. Probably even more than I have to go on the engine.
Just when I thought I was in for the night. The ladies went out for a quick ride before the sun goes down. Here's a horse walking my wife...
Then poor Sundae giving me that look; "won't you please let me in"? She scares easily at the sound of gun shots. We seem to have a lot of shooters around here.
Game on.
Got a package from Arizona Gary. Cut the rod in two pieces and disassembled the variocam, chain and cams.
Cleaned a few parts, including the variocam assembly in a bag of oil.
Getting ready for tomorrow. Since I am working from home, right now, I have an additional one and a half hours to work on my stuff. Things should fall together nicely over the next couple of days.
Probably needs Driven break-in oil. I might have some left over after my build.
Speaking of which, I completed most of the bank #1 cam install today.
Put a bag over it so dirt would be less likely to find the grease. I ran out of steam before I could complete the cam cover installation.
It's clear bank #1 tensioner pads are newer than bank #2. This is consistent with the cam deviation numbers I saw before the engine needed to come apart.
Bank #2 cams ready for lube and installation into the head. Should be able to tackle that tomorrow. Might even be able to seal up the two cam covers, if I don't get worn out from a hard day of Webex meetings.
Thanks Bill. I wasn't in the groove today. Kind of pissy. Little things would irritate me, and constantly having oil and grease on my hands made it even worse. Had to stop before I did something extra stupid.
It's coming along. Just need to remain focused and take things slow. Have the next steps cued up on the DVD to duplicate what I did on bank #1 today, so I can do the same on bank #2 tomorrow.
This must be the wisdom that comes with age. When I was younger, I always hung in there until I did something extra,
extra
stupid. Now, not so much.
My kit was missing the Drei Bond. All the oil leaked out.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/435x452/578fc3046fe0726e3218cb2f6b606395_5d508ec7088a8511aae31b3fef0293ba49cdea47.jpg
Started with the plugs and coils and went from there, today...
A bunch of little things. Lots of little things. Need to order that AOS pipe that I should have ordered a couple of weeks ago...
I did a fairly good job of labeling and organizing things as they came apart. Need to reference a few photos to be sure to sequence things. Also want to double check a few fasteners. But for the most part, things are going back nicely. That pipe is going to hold things up a little as it needs to be installed at just the right time. Too many things depend on it being in place.
Yeah - that didn't clean up very well. It's on my list. Just ordered the AOS pipe, gear lube, brake hoses and fluid and some coolant.
I'll be documenting, as best I can, the UAOS install. Obviously the engine-out install is the easiest. But seeing how the parts interact and attach can be very educational. Hopefully I can provide that perspective as I move forward.
A little oil on the multi-grooved sealing ring.
Notice how tight things are. The cam position sensor is right there. The crank position sensor connector is not yet mounted (more anti-social distancing). Getting the clamps aligned is important. Tool access is quite limited. With the hose properly clamped in-place, the AOS unit can be bolted to the block.
Oddly, this unit is reasonably easy to service; even with the engine in the car. Good thing the AOS has a longer life-expectancy...
...never mind.
The gateway arch. I don't recall removing the tensioner to get the P/S pump out, but it sure as hell didn't want to go back in until I did.
Pump reservoir is there just for the photo-op. There sure are a bunch of fiddly bits to the power steering. I wonder if there's a proven P/S delete for these cars?
A trial fit of one of the AOS coolant lines. The aluminum/ stainless connection pipe is a must.
Haven't heard that one in years
when i was 15 my dad taught me how to dock our 55' shrimp boat. In South Carolina you are always fighting wind and strong tides. He admonished me to slow down. When you take it slow, bad things happen slowly. When you take it fast, bad things happen quickly.
later on when I taught my own kids how to dock (although only on a 28' boat) I taught them the same thing. It's funny hearing them using the same expression now that they are older.
Scott, just wanted to say how much I appreciate your quality photography and narrative. As someone who has only recently done a deep dive into the flat six world, this is highly educational for me. Fingers crossed you get 100k+ miles (and smiles) out of this bad boy when done!
Hey Gary, did you get a package from FedEx somewhere around Tuesday? I forgot to check the tracking and probably threw the receipt away.
"Smooth is fast" is one of the great go-to lines when instructing drivers. That, and apex late, maximize the radius and brake late.
You would definitely have a problem getting that cam sensor out with the AOS hose in place. There is significant length to the sensor end that require a good bit of space to fully exit the hole.
Thank you.
I'm doing everything I can to assure a long and happy life with this engine. I bought the car fairly cheap. I knew it would need serious work at some point. To get a full year and 10,000 miles out of it, initially, was nice. Now I should be able to drive it without worrying about when it will blow up. I also like to do things for myself. I've been that way since I bought my first motorcycle in the mid-70s. I don't trust others to do something I can either do myself, or learn to do. By gathering the instructional materials (the Raby DVD, RL threads, etc.) I have attempted to stack everything in my favor for success. It's the way I have operated ever since I played sports and later began racing and rallying. I don't take losing well and won't quit. This will be another victory!
So
rry for not reaching out. I've had a busy week and luckily, it was over almost as fast as it started. But yeah, the tools made it back and I was able to get some burgers for me and the dogs to top it off
Glad to be of help.
I feel almost the same way about fixing my stuff. I have found some people out there that I trust, just can't always afford 'em. What was the bike you bought? I bought a '7
4 Kawasaki F7 (enduo-2 stoke) f
rom a girlfriend's dad. It would idle but wouldn't run with the throttle open. I got it home and took apart the carb--the circlip on the jet-needle had not been installed correctly--popped it in and kept that bike for another five years. Ever since, I've been working on things myself (and loving it). Perhaps that's why I enjoy your posts so much--kindred spirits
No worries. Glad things are going alright. There are probably things we could never image, until that light goes on.
It was a 73 Honda SL 100. Bought it so I could deliver papers with it. I went through a bunch of pedal bikes on my 5+ mile rural route. Almost all dirt roads. I must have been 13 or 14. I rode that bike to driver's training a few years later. I ditched it at the back of the campus and walked a distance to the classroom. I took advantage of the handy helmet lock Honda had (just for that purpose) so as not to be seen with that. It was about three miles by trails and public roads to get to the high school. Good times.
It was really windy today, so my gardening plans kind of blew away. It was reasonably warm, but it was just crazy how windy it was.
Good time to stay indoors. This is also a good time to mention how nice the engine stand fixture has been. This one is from
VW Alley
, I'll have to refresh my memory on his name. He's in Oregon, and from what I can gather, welds these up and sells them through a couple of outlets. It is now very obvious what makes it special. The space to access the rear of the engine. The IMS bearing and flange are easily installed. The RMS, and now the flywheel and clutch/ pressure plate assembly can be fitted, without separating the engine from the stand. This is almost never possible without an application specific unit.
Pressure plate in and you can also see how close everything is at the AOS.
Need more evidence? This doesn't include the AOS cross-over pipe and the electrical connectors...
.. nor the intake manifold.
Time for some clean up of the electrical stuff (and the snorkel).
A messy bath in mineral spirits and then a good air blast.
Followed up with contact cleaner, more air and then WD-40. Then more air. It was actually fortunate to have the wind to blow much of the misty stuff away...
I discovered a "fix" in the #6 coil wiring. It will need to be correctly fixed.
Left out to dry/ drain in the sun for a while...
... then to hang on the line for a while. I'll clean each connector again and apply a little dielectric grease, to each, at installation.
It only gets worse. I just did a trial fitting of a few things. The intake manifolds and the intake runners. Notice how tight the 3/8" drive ratchet and socket are between the AOS and the intake - it is actually wedged in there. This is why 1/4" drive tools are usually preferred. The cross-over pipe is still not there (expected on Wednesday), and none of the harness and connectors are in place.
I did install the coolant plate and the lower hose for the AOS circuit. Also completed what should be the final tightening of the hose clamps for the intake plenum. Should be able to take the whole assembly and re-set it in place once everything that goes under it gets installed.
Played around with the UAOS to get a feel for how things will fit. The connection at the plenum was a bugger. It should remain attached where it is. I'll take other ends apart to keep this end in place.
Still needs a little more tweaking and aligning, but it looks good. Once everything is in around it, it should blend in nicely.
Oh, look. Good thing it was sent
Priority
. It arrived three weeks to the day...
One meter of M5 lefthand threaded rod and left handed nuts. If anyone needs a homemade cam chain tension relief tool, let me know. I can cut a few segments and send them out in more practical packaging.
As a reminder, this is what it looks like and where it's used.
I've been avoiding asking a question that has been bugging me because I suspect there's a painfully obvious explanation that I'm missing. Why is it crucial that the rod has left hand threads?
Why they used lefthanded threads is a mystery. There is no logical reason for this. The very fact that they also made these with righthanded threads bears this out.
Exactly. So it's a crap-shoot as to what one can expect/ find in their engine. Maybe there's a decoder ring to tell which style came in which engine. Maybe Doc knows?
Regardless, I'll probably send the container back to BelMetric (unopened) if I don't see interest in at least one "kit".
"
I also like to do things for myself. I've been that way since I bought my first motorcycle in the mid-70s. I don't trust others to do something I can either do myself, or learn to do."
"
Why they used lefthanded threads is a mystery. There is no logical reason for this. The very fact that they also made these with righthanded threads bears this out."
Cynical person that I am, I can only think it was so they could sell "special tools"...
I can tell the history of the left hand threads, but the logistics of the inconsistency is arguable.
The original design engineers of the m96 used a color to identify bank 1 and bank 2 cam actuators since they were very similar looking and would physically fit either side.
Bank 1 had a black solenoid and used right hand threaded special tool 9632 also in black to relieve tension.
Bank 2 had a grey/silver solenoid and used a left handed thread special tool 9632/1 in grey/silver to relieve tension.
Later engineers/bean counters stopped that practice and would use what ever were available, hence if you ordered a black bank 1 solenoid, you may get a grey/silver solenoid in the box.
Actuators bank 1 or bank 2 differential must be done by the actual part number on the actuator, and it may be left or right handed threads.
Not much to update. The weather was nice and I spent all day working in the yard/ garden/ greenhouse. But I did start on correcting a wiring issue. There were two cuts in the insulation of each wire to the #6 coil pack. Put some liquid electrical tape on each one. This will be a much better repair from what was there.
Here's a shot of the coffee percolator. I think that's what it is...
Now for something completely different. Green stuff...
lol. I think 90% of the time USPS does a great job but it seems like it's always the package you REALLY need that has problems. It's never the order of pink plastic lawn flamingos.
A few years ago I was waiting for some BMW parts shipped Priority from Chicago to San Diego and it turned into a car parts
World Tour
. The package made it to Los Angeles in five days but then was sent to Michigan and then Pennsylvania. After this tracking screen cap, it went to Nevada and somewhere else before finally getting to San Diego. Almost 8000 miles total.
Yes - it might.
Still need to install the oil fill pipe and AOS pipe. Both are due this week. Then I can move forward. I'll admit, I've underestimated my progress on some occasions and delayed ordering some parts. Then again, some things have been delayed beyond normal expectations. Then there's a lack of planning...
Same boat. Actually need to pull off the left intake manifold (under the UAOS) to install a plastic bracket that's getting delivered Friday. More of an annoyance though. Pretty thankful that's the worst of my problems right now.
Reminds me of a joke. And if you remember when we could fly, on airplanes, it might even make more sense.
So I'm at the ticket counter for my flight to LA. I ask the girl at the desk if I can have my luggage sent to Atlanta and then after three days, have it sent to Dallas.
She apologizes and exclaims; "I'm sorry sir, we can't do that"
Me: "Why not? That's what you did the last time I took this flight".
A package arrived from Sunset. LF inner fender liner, a couple of lower ducts and two engine items.
Wanted to get the new oil fill pipe installed so I can put the alternator on. I remember screwing around with that when I replaced the alternator for my 125,000 mile tune up. Too many install, remove, install cycles. Kind of wanted to do it just once, this time around. Call me crazy. The other item is the breather hose off the heat exchanger. Now I'm waiting for the AOS pipe to arrive and I can start messing with the wire harness.
Got impatient waiting on FedEx. Installed the wire harness just partially. Mostly to get a
lay of the land
.
Need to review some old photos to make sure I have things located and oriented properly. It's fairly obvious where each connector goes. It's more the routing of the harness that's in question.
Finally the white truck arrived. I'll wait until tomorrow to install this and redo the wiring.
Yes, maniacal.
Since I'm working from home, I took my lunch break in the garage. Installing the AOS crossover pipe was a royal pain. I had to use a dead-blow hammer to wack the end into the AOS.
The other end was no easier, but it wasn't conducive to hammer blows. Had to remove the valve and shove it in to the pipe. Not sure if they're all such a tight fit, but this one was. I bought a lesser brand pipe, so maybe that's it. The AOS is URO brand, but I think the valve may have been genuine Porsche (would have to check my records/ receipts).
Hot tip: don't get too far ahead when it comes to installing that AOS pipe. I had just installed the oil dipstick tube. That was a mistake. It had to come out to get the pipe located. Also, the alternator and oil fill pipe can go on afterward. I ended up taking the alternator out again, to route the wires to the bank #1 knock sensor and the air pump switch. Everything is so tight. Sequencing things properly will save a lot of bother.
Speaking of sequencing. You should also torque the intake manifolds in place before routing that damn AOS pipe (at least the bolt closest to the AOS). 1/4" drive tools bailed me out of a big headache...
That is a 3.4 i think. the pass side valve is the give away. My old hose has flex on both sides but the new one only has a flex on the pass side.
Keep up the good pics. They will come in handy for me this weekend as i put my motor back together. I didnt take enough pics and it took so long for me to get my parts i forgot some details.
Cleaned all the connectors again and applied a little dielectric grease to each one and installed everything toward the center of the engine. All the injector and coil connections are just in their general area.
Here's how everything fits near the AOS. Not much room to maneuver. There is a definite sequence that works better than others.
Last trial fit of the upper air intake system, before going for real. Swinging the upper AOS plumbing up and rearward reduces the tangle.
Don't forget these guys.
True. Getting closer. Need to modify the injectors and install the rails and fuel lines. Might be able to take care of that tomorrow. Then I'll have a good look at the exhaust. I want to weld up a cracked mount too.
Yes - getting close.
Already on it, the wiring on the Infra-red sensor is a 24awg is is a lot more robust than it looks, it has a very thin insulation and is molded into the sensor very well. Once mounted and installed there is very little weight on the wires, only their own weight. Anyway all the harnesses built this week have an extra heat shrink give a more robust look and to give more support to the cover and relieve the wire itself.
It will be worse than that, in my case. Once it warms up, I'll get my winter wheels painted and mount my winter/ dirt tires. I envision a lot of break-in miles on my dirt oval.
This didn't go unnoticed. Tape and zip ties are in the plan. And as you can see, below, the inventor is on it too.
Hey nice photo!
OK, That does it! If you have a dirt oval, get me some space ready in your Hobbit greenhouse. Damn the health care system, you and I are gonna be swappin' paint on our cars
From a few years ago - reignited my fire to buy a 911. I got to drive this car for part of the 2012, all of 2013 and part of the 2014 Detroit Region SCCA RallyCross seasons. The owner went and locked me out of driving it by installing a fixed seat. He's at least half a foot shorter than me. This is on our track...
Gary (almost typed Greg, again...
) - you're welcome anytime. Sundae has claimed spare bedroom #1 as her own, but #2 is almost always open.
I was out in my Psychedelic Shack (what I actually call the greenhouse) and thought of that very thing. The pond would be good for you.
You Tube
Things are finally blooming and getting into the idea of spring...
It was a beautiful day here. Sunny and reasonably warm (mid-60s). After closing my work computer I went out. First step was to compare the old injectors against the new ones. They're the same. No modification needed! Made the job a lot easier.
Having everything right in clear view makes installing the clips less of a battle. They have several indices.
Another good tip: pull the boot up from the coil connector to verify the clip fully engages. If any of these aren't installed properly, it's a good recipe for a misfire code setting.
It was so nice I worked in shorts and even took my shirt off, for a while. Sorry, no photos of that...
Fuel rails and injectors completed.
It was so nice, I shoved everything closer to the sunshine. Should start looking at the exhaust and cooling tomorrow.
So I kept myself awake last night trying to figure out how to transfer the engine from the stand, to the hydraulic table. I expected it would require a hand-off from the cherry picker. For the life of me, I couldn't wrap my head around how to rig something up to lift the engine. I fully expected the table would make contact with the forward leg of the engine stand.
Turns out, there is a little clearance before making contact with the hydraulic lift portion. Looks as though it might work out with just a little balancing and rotating. Might take a little muscle to move it toward the center, but this is very encouraging.
The easiest job of the day was one I expected to take a bit longer. Probably two minutes worth of gas-on. Cleaned up a cracked weld, and made it like new.
Spent a good bit of time playing with the exhaust. Still a lot to do. At least I have most things checked and should make some more progress with it tomorrow. New hardware and a lot of copper anti-seize.
I think I'll be OK with the hydraulic table sliding in underneath. No need to lift the whole engine to get it there.
I'm surprised none of you wise guys noticed I put the bank #2 header on bank #1. Ooops. I realized my mistake, this morning, while laying in bed. Must be where I do my best thinking.
I kniw u figured it out but..... My motor has a hole on the bracket at the top of the bellhousing. It holds the clamp for the hoses behind the rear crossover tube. This looks like its suppose to be a lifting point?
I know about the bracket. It's held in place by two M6 bolts. That does not seem robust enough, to me. Then there would need to be something at the front of the engine. That's where creativity might need to be employed. I'm currently running low on creativity. The hydraulic table will fit at an angle. That's my plan. No creativity required.
Im only beating this non issue to death because im boared and dont want to get off the couch and trim the brisket that im going to smoke today
good point on that bracket. My motor is in the car do i couldnt tell how its attached. In the front i would have just pulled the idler of the bolt and replaced it with a simple piece of flat stock with a couple of holes. U would have to balance the motor but it would be a secure lifting point. In the back u can do the same with a bellhousing bolt. If the trans was mounted i would just yoke it with a strap.
anyways get back to work u need to catch up to yaz. Hopefully mine will be running this afternoon too.
This should work better. Bank #2 header on bank #2.
I pulled all the oxygen sensors out. I looked in one of the holes for one of the cats and saw a bunch of little green *****. This answers a couple of questions. 1) where that mouse disappeared to a couple of weeks ago, and 2) where all the poison has been going. I did get a mouse in a trap a few days ago. Might be the one that's been causing all this havoc.
Spent a bit of time with a die grinder and a cutting wheel. When I replaced my waterpump last year, I thought it would be a good idea to either notch the mounting plate or use bolts at the lower attachment points. This was before I realized those studs are rather long. Bolts would not be practical (if not impossible). Now I can remove the plate completely, without removing the exhaust. And likewise, I can have the exhaust in place before installing the plate.
Snapped a couple of studs off when removing the exhaust system (months ago). Finally addressed that by grinding off the heads and pounding the stubs through.
Another glorious day here. Sunny and warm. Got the exhaust system in place, but still need the connector clamps. I ordered them quite some time ago. Hope to see them soon.
It was so nice, I even opened the back door.
This will not stand. If there isn't a plug to fill this hole, I'll come up with something. This will account for some of the dirt and debris I found inside the bellhousing.
Could be. I will look more closely. I don't like the idea of such a large opening allowing dirt in. Most people don't drive in the dirt as much as I do.
It's the bell housing. Cut a plate out of aluminum, drill two small holes in the housing and fasten the plate to the outside with some screws. Not going to hurt anything.
I'm agreein' with jjbravo, pardner. It's a vent to let the hot air escape-I don't think the Tip bellhousing has it. But I'll defer to anything Doc says if he should chime in differently.
BTW - could you tell I watched Westerns yesterday? The John Ford "cavalry" trinity --
Fort Apache
,
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
, and
Rio Grande
That would work but, if the purpose of the opening is to allow heat out, it might do more harm than good. I like the filter idea. Shouldn't be hard to come up with something.
Yep, it is indeed an air vent, the 996 Turbo actually has a plastic "air scoop" that bolts to the bellhousing to promote air flow.
The "Ultimate Clutch Vent Solution" should have a cross-flow ventilation with entry and exit on opposite sides with forward and backward air scoops and a filtration element !!!!
signed Dr. h. c. Porschetech3
Seeing this reminds me of a 997.1 CPO car we had at the shop years ago. The car was smoking out of the drivers side exhaust bank 2 pipe and the smell was totally obnoxious !!! The smell was so bad it cleared everyone out of the shop !! Come to find out, a rodent had filled the drivers side muffler with dry dog food, and it was turning to charcoal...lol
We live in a rural area (not that rodents don't find a home in the city) and my old Yamaha IT400 had been in the barn for years. A couple of years ago, I got it going again. But not before I removed a bunch of fiberglass insulation from the exhaust port and top of the piston!
I've been following this thread for several weeks as I'm more accustomed to the SBC and SB Fords than to the P-Car flat-6. Good work! I'm a lurker mainly because work/family eat up my time to contribute that much so I'm limited to just consume the info.
It was a good day. After "getting off work", I went to the store. On the way out, I could see the mailbox was full. And, I recognized the AutoAtlanta logo as I went past.
I also got a new ignition switch for our $100 John Deere lawn tractor. Yes! The dandelions and other weeds have been threatening to consume the house. Even worse, where the dog's been leaving her logs, it was more overgrown than a hippy chick's arm pit.
That was a big win, today.
Then I messed with some envelopes that - also - arrived today.
Some of you guys should see something like this before the end of the month, I hope. USPS is not my first choice... we'll have to see.
The clamps were a welcome package. Do you think that will be enough anti-seize?
I'm leaving little blue reminders that the fasteners are not fully torqued. Snug, yes. I expect some shifting and aligning before I tighten-up for good.
Work and family are pretty good consumers. Finding a balance is important. I'm very fortunate in both areas. What's almost as rewarding is having time for hobbies too. I'm quite fortunate there as well.
Hopefully we can see you more frequently. This is a pretty good place to visit and participate.
One last shot for the day...
^^^ Seems like a lot of extra work for a motor that drops out the bottom. Mine went right from the lift table/tranny jack, to the engine stand (once they were split), and vice versa when it was all put back together... What's the use/advantage of the engine hoist/crane?
It would only be needed if I can't get the table far enough under the engine to support it. Based on my quick trial (post #548), I expect the table to work fine.
No advantage.....no lift tables available to purchase locally when I was ready pull engine.Jack that I used would not lift high enough to attach to engine stand,with out cribbing for extra height.Working by myself had engine hoist avail for another project,using hoist safer option for me.
All the fuss for nothing. The table went in a lot deeper than I expected.
After I completed the exhaust installation and got the wooden pads just right, it was an easy separation.
Need to clean this thing up and prepare it for docking...
Harbor Freight. The 1000 lb hydraulic lift table. I bought it specifically to catch the engine. My buddy Coopduc used one for his engine drop.
Turns out to be quite handy for all sorts of things. Just like another rolling work bench.
It's going well. That's a nice looking table. Looks as though you could build Frankenstein on that. I like the car dollies for the trans...
Looks like a nicely outfitted shop.
It's not bad for the price. The chains that came with it to hold the trans in place were pretty useless. The tie down strap was a suitable substitute. Color selection is strictly optional...
Did some clean-up of the transmission yesterday and installed some coolant hoses. Need to clean up the engine bay a bit still. It really needs a good pressure washing. I don't think I want to do that on the lift. I need an outdoor lift for that. Now
that
would be crazy. I'll be working on that idea soon...
So there's also a triangular vent at the rear of the bell housing. Two filters are needed.
Transmission docked with the engine.
Getting close. List is smaller, but needs to be followed closely.
Spoke too soon. Hope Yaz solves his issue.
Didn't do much today. Went to the post office. That was good fun.
Cleared off an item from my list. Drained and filled the front diff. Being unable to find the spec, I just dumped in fluid until it flowed out the fill hole. I'd estimate it took about 1.2 liters.
The drain plug had normal debris and the fluid looked pretty good.
No - have no immediate plans either. The transmission was replaced a few months before I bought the car. I have inspected it, and it seems fine.
And just for you, it was snowing here yesterday.
Not much happened today. Just a little cleaning and re-fitting. Closed up the undertray below the front diff. Fixed a missing screw issue at the nose.
Got the A/C compressor clean-ish.
Cleaned up the engine compartment a bit. Hit all the electrical connectors with cleaner and blasted them dry.
Spent a lot of the day trying to get caught up on some yard/ garden things. Weeded around the strawberry plants, watered the stuff that has been planted and spent a couple of hours getting the rototiller going again. If only I had something to keep occupied on time...
Big day - still a long way from the end, though. Did a little tilling with my freshly fixed tiller. Then is started raining. Deciding to move indoors.
Got about a gallon of gas out of the tank. I don't recall being that low when I had to park
Speedy
. I wonder how much evaporated out of the open lines? I really expected more fuel and was worried I wouldn't have any empty fuel jugs to collect it all. My other car is full. I normally fill up jugs every time I fill up the car. The jugs have been sitting, full, for close to two months now. We've got plenty of things to dump fuel in, but this is a strange situation.
I found some open-cell foam that must have been packaging material for something I received in the last year or two. Maybe I'll figure it out one day. Anyway, I made "filters" for the transmission. Should keep the bigger stuff out, and it will breathe. Should not absorb water, so that's a good thing. Pretty, isn't it?
D-Day.
Pumped 12+ gallons out of mine. No one around wants old fuel and the state has postponed all the haz mat collection events due to covid. Fortunately a 1/4 of it has already evaporated.
I started with the forward drive shaft. That was fairly straightforward (so to speak). Just needed to get the car and the table set right. Then I did the trans support. That was much more of a bother. Constant messing with the lift and the table. Getting the yoke in after tightening the driveshaft bolts made that worse than it should have been.
Up and down, up and down. On my back, up and down, x20.
A helper would have been nice. Doing this without the lift and the table, would be a nightmare (certainly alone).
No matter how many are there to help - this task truly is a nightmare. I wanted to strangle the guy that thought putting fuel lines to a cooler was a good idea. I left a fair amount of blood behind getting these damn lines attached.
Got the P/S lines attached. I am not comfortable with how these tighten. Not sure if they have a feature that prevents over torquing. Just never seemed right. We'll have to see. Decided to tackle one last pain in the *** task before quitting for the night. Got all three bolts in the A/C compressor.
Most everything else should be reasonably easy to work through. I'll need to lower the engine a little to route some hoses and wiring. It's just held in at the rear with about 5 or 6 threads on the engine mount nuts. The trans mounts aren't torqued yet, either. I'll be making a list, and checking it twice (at least).
Interesting that you should mention this. I just looked in my "manual". There does not seem to be a section on steering. It should be in Group 4, section 48 (pdf-08). My copy stops at 47 and then the next folder (pdf-09) covers Body. What did I miss?
I think the small hose used 15mm on the two ends and the big hose used 19mm. I backed up (countered) the tightening. It never went "tight", but it does seem fairly secure. I don't know what else I could do.
I wonder what that would read like, if it didn't need to be translated from German? Probably two simple instructions.
Good information. That is missing from my manual, but that matches the same source as mine (wsm.co.uk). I wonder if that section is hidden in a location other than where it should be sequenced?
Thanks for the info.
Lots of stuff to install, route and re-route. Lowered the engine a little to route things for the UAOS and coolant hoses. I only learned a few days ago that a little c-clip held the brake booster elbow in place. Made that installation a little less cumbersome.
Torqued the transmission mounting hardware to spec, then had at the clutch slave cylinder. What a pain. Well below the suckiness level of the fuel cooling lines, though. Got the left rear axle shaft installed as well.
Transmission cables and reverse switch were much less trouble. A little grease, some zip-ties and rebending the retaining clip put things right.
Close to tightening the oil feed line. It's just loosely assembled here.
After getting off work - and stepping out the back door - I messed around in the yard and garden. Decided a two hour dose of mind clearing mowing was needed. May have helped. I didn't expect to accomplish much on Speedy today. It turns out I got through 7.5 tasks of my 10 point list. The first few were coolant lines and hoses. Then the IMSS oil feed line.
The hose clamps are sometimes a bitch to work with. I made note of Bruce's channel-lock modification and performed a similar operation. Wish I had done that a couple of days ago. The left side of the engine has a bunch of annoying clamps. And one that is not original...
Installed the oil filter and torqued the bolts on the RR axle shaft.
Started putting in the oil and added enough P/S fluid to get to the "hot" mark.
The other two items on the list are installing the belt and filling the transmission with lube. Maybe tomorrow...
Right !! I find the translations are far too detailed and makes me think they consider us English speaking "'Mericans" kindergartners when it comes to Technical procedures...
Got a replacement UAOS accumulator today. Old on left; new on right.
The new one sitting flat near its installation location.
Put the two clamps on first. Do this before other things get in the way.
Everything is simple after that. Except the wiring for the IR sensor. I still need to get to that.
On my 996.2, I unplugged the coolant sensor connector from the coolant tank and made my connections near the connector, then wrapped it with electrical tape to the plastic loom.
I didn't want to cut open the factory loom to make the connection closer to the air pump.
It was a simple task to connect the infrared sensor.
Put the belt on. Didn't even have to look up its routing, this time.
If you don't have the appropriate metric tool, maybe you have a 15/16 for the tensioner.
Most of the way done filling the transmission.
Empties are piling up.
Getting real close to the big day. Wrapped up the underside of the engine and bracing.
The IMSS oil feed line fits nicely and is well protected. This, even before I put on the skid plate.
Connected the O2 sensors. I didn't replace these, yet. I did make sure I could get them out, though. I do have a new MAF sensor arriving on a slow boat from Latvia. Seriously. It was ordered more than a month ago and is still not due until May 27.
The 9th quart of oil is in. The transmission is full. The power steering reservoir is probably close to where it needs to be.
Next to last fluid.
The last will be gas. I tired to put some in today. There must be a valve that closes the filler neck when power is cut. I experienced this before and I am sure I had the battery disconnected then as well.
Not many parts left to install. Body pieces don't count.
Fill the cooling system. Went very efficiently. Having done it twice already, helped a lot.
That went so well, I decided to put the air pump and air box in.
That went well too. What's left? Oh yeah, hook up the battery and see if I can put fuel in. Yep - that worked.
Did a little review of the recommendations for breaking-in an RND engine. Got Durametric going on my computer. But before that, I did a quick check to see what reading the oil level sensor was giving. Nothing. It blinked after showing no oil. Oh well. I know it has oil.
Cranked over the engine and let it run for a second at a time until pressure built. Let it run for about 25 minutes, trying to stay around 1500 rpm. A lot of coolant was/is still in the bank #2 exhaust. The smoke did dissipate after a while - but still needs more time to burn off. I ended up cutting the run short because there was a P/S fluid leak! DOH! Good thing I have the reference material from Yaz. Maybe I can do it right this time...
Found two little spots of coolant on the floor too. The drain plug was weeping. I tightened that up. I can't explain the other tiny puddle, yet.
It's a good feeling. There's still a few little things to fix before going again. But it's a BIG relief.
It's great to have this community for support. There's not just encouragement but, real hard information. I leaned heavily on a lot of you guys.
I ended up pulling the throttle body out. While I was monitoring things with Durametric, I noted that oil temp was about 20 C (after warm). That's pretty good confirmation there was an issue with the connection at the sender.
As suspected, the connector was not connected. I must have dislodged it, as in snapped it off, while wrestling with the A/C compressor. Hope the silicone sealer keeps it in place.
Congrats Scott. Loved your Frankenstein vid! Glad it's going well, with only minor issues cropping up. It's been a page-turner for me following your build. Can't wait to hear about your first road trest.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/480x358/54bc9fa5_734d_474e_b969_9ebf8b156aaf_2b5f6361df26e9a602fbe0417e4609172d4a2e85.gif
Thanks for the kind words.
We're still not out of the woods yet. I fixed a few things today and also encountered other issues. First thing was the fact that I still needed add an additional 1.5 qts. of oil to get to the half-full mark. Fortunately there was no high rpm or cornering involved during the first trial run. So putting the connector back on the sender, did actually help.
Early in the first warm-up for today.
Followed the P/S line installation procedure that Yaz posted here. Thanks, pal. No leaks from that. But I did find the unknown coolant leak. It seems I didn't engage the hose clamp in the proper place on the console pipe. And no, it wasn't where the dirty imprint is...
So I've got concerns about some of the readings I'm seeing in the data. Yesterday, I saw 0.09 cam deviation on bank #1 and 0.00 on bank #2. You could say, I was quite pleased with those numbers. Today was different. Not nearly so good.
Then I was monitoring cat temperature. I saw 450 C yesterday. But that was at steady engine speed. Today I did a few gradual sweeps up to 5000 rpm. When the cat rapidly approached and then went over 500 C, I brought things down for a few minutes and then shut-off.
Hopefully this is not excessively hot. If it is, I would suspect over-fueling, or residual coolant contamination. The bank #2 cat was a bit warmer than bank #1, as checked with an IR thermometer.
Was there any special process to initially start the fresh engine? I know FSI has mentioned that you don't just crank it over and fire it up but I never got the details on the proper process itself. Is the process to just turn it over a few times to build up the oil pressure without any real load like what you implied you did? It's not like a SBC or SBF where you can remove the distributor and turn the oil shaft to prime the pump and system. How do they fire them up on the production line to begin with?
You can either use the start-stop method Jake recommends as outlined in the RND procedures he created for SSF Auto Parts or you can use a pre-oiler like the one that Tony Callas (Callas Rennsport) created:
https://lnengineering.com/products/t...e-kit-epl.html
Also found this...Shows some diagnostic conditions for a 996 catalytic converter code. Note the temps....
P0420
Catalytic conversion
K NOTE
The catalytic converter monitor compares the amplitude of the oxygen sensor behind the catalytic converter with the amplitude of a computed limit catalytic converter during defined air gulping and enrichment phases. The amplitudes allow conclusions to be drawn about the ability of the catalytic converter to store oxygen.
Diagnostic conditions
I Engine start temperature > -15�C (5 �F)
I Catalytic converter temperature 385 .... 635�C (725-1175 �F)
I Loading of activated charcoal filter < 8
I Oxygen sensing in front of catalytic converter active
I Oxygen sensors behind catalytic converter ready for operation
I 50 seconds (cumulative) within following load/rpm range
I Engine speed 1280 .... 2880 rpm
I Engine load (relative filling) 22 .... 41%
I No fault oxygen sensors, tank vent, secondary-air pump relay, secondary-air valve relay, throttle adjusting unit, mass air flow sensor, no misfire.
E The diagnostic conditions can also be established using the PIWIS Tester via the short test "Catalytic conversion". It is not necessary to have the vehicle in motion for this.
Possible fault causes
J Oxygen sensors in front of and behind catalytic converter swapped (position in exhaust assembly)
J Valve lift error
J Aged oxygen sensor behind catalytic converter
J Catalytic converter faulty (pre-catalytic conversion rate too low)
Bill - that's good information. Clearly 500 C is not even close to being an issue. In the other note, the monitor is good information as well.
I'm also worried about the -3.5 degree of cam deviation that was recorded on bank #1. It was almost zero on the first day. That will need close scrutiny.
The last two days have been dreary. We've gotten probably 2" of rain, if not more. It's put a damper on my activities. It has certainly discouraged me from going for a drive.
Hey Scott,
How's the water level up there? What with bustin' dams and crazy rain, are you considering running Speedy as an U-boat. I know your not up where the floods are but I hope none of you friends or family are in harm's way up there.
Take care, buddy.
No problems where we are. One horse field resembles a small lake, but other than that, no big deal.
Put the rear bumper on yesterday and started cleaning the wheels. Hope to go for a drive in the next couple of days. I have enough other projects to keep me busy for a while. Our diesel tractor needs work (won't start). And my wife's seatbelt (V70 R) latch won't latch. And I'm way behind on the garden activities due to all of the rain. Good thing I don't have to travel to and from work...
A job best performed with two.
Engine lid getting some of the dirt washed away.
Bumper, wheels and engine cover on. Ready to go for a drive soon. Will try to monitor vitals as best I can...
Not much has happened with
Speedy
. My son came over on Friday and we drained the fuel out of our diesel tractor. I was able to fix
Roddy
(tractor). I needed to fix the diesel tractor, then get it out of the way, so I can fix the gas-engine tractor (
*****
). I think we should have the
Green Acres
theme song on my playlist...
I ran
Speedy
for a while on Friday. That hose clamp adjustment didn't fix the leak! The first drive is off until that gets fixed.
I ordered a replacement hose. URO to the rescue; from Amazon. I wanted it fast; and this was the quickest I could get. Arrived today.
Fixed our leaking hot tub yesterday. Got to sit in it tonight.
It's been a productive weekend. Even with the summer heat we've had to deal with. Mid to upper 80s is a bit out of season for us, right now.
Alright. First drive has taken place. I finally had time, between rebuilding the carburetor on our gas-engine tractor, and mowing the track, and trying to stay ahead of the vegetation explosion around here.
New hose. No leaks. Just the way it ought to be.
Found the coolant drain plug gasket I ordered more than a year ago and installed it. Had to use the airlift to fill the cooling system again. What a gem.
Went for a few laps around the track to warm things up and make sure I wasn't losing any fluids. Looks like about 8 laps worth. I kind of lost track...
Then it was off for the first fill-up.
A full tank of gas and 7.8 miles later.
Looks a lot better outside.
Looks as though I may have collected a few weeds. I cleaned out the left front while at the gas station.
Woo Hoo, congrats!!
I did a BevMo run today and as an afterthought, I added a bottle of champagne to the order. I may have to crack it in your honor.
(BTW, the frunk can fit three and half cases of beer with room left over for plenty of other stuff)
Is your coolant temp high or is that where it normally rests? My '03 4S usually rests just a hair past 180. Perhaps it's due to the new engine being a little tight or you lapping around the track?
I don't think it's that hot. Not having a whole lot of miles on it since the rebuild, I can't say if that's where it normally rests. Were it above the next mark (215F?), I would be concerned.
Seems normal to me - right near the boiling point of water....
Quick bit of advice - I noticed some left over drips/material near that leaking elbow hose. Suggest you clean it off - so that you can easily spot future leaks there, and not wonder if the white material is new or old.
Thanks, Bill. All in good time. I've got a lot of other things to care for around here. I need to break the engine in properly and fix a few little things. The RF outer CV boot needs replacement. The rear shocks should be replaced soon (RR shock body is wet). I think the trans mount and engine mounts should be checked to be sure they aren't pushed forward too much.
So while I'm checking and replacing things, I should be able to get a better idea what it will take to gain a little ride height. The current thought is that simple spacers can be placed at the top of each shock/ strut mount. If I can get an additional 1/2" of lift by doing this, I would be happy. Then there are the tires and wheels that should provide a further 1/4-1/2" lift. Then I will install the skid plate and let it rip...
Something like this:
It's 'shopped. You can tell from the flat spots on the bottom of the tires and the "lift angle" of the dust storm. Not to mention the blue in the windshield matches nothing around...no way any pro attempts that kind of send without a downhill landing.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1600x900/safari996_04052d97e8983ab8813f36055f0cc0d3d8e6e85a.jpg
That would look better with some mud up the side of it.
The wheels and front bar never should be bright white on a true offroader.
Also I'm not a fan of the French yellow headlights.
But I DO like the shade of green.
Finally had a real reason to go for a drive. Had to call my insurance agent to change my coverage from 'storage'. Dumped a full can of Seafoam in the gas tank and hooked up my electronic junk (GPS and MP3 player). Hit the road and kept shifts around 3000 rpm for the first six miles, or so. After that, it was up and down through the rev-band with a lot of charges followed by engine braking. Probably exceeded 90 mph only five times...
Piled on close to 40 miles. Even stopped at a friend's house to prove that
Speedy'
s really alive. I was thinking of photographing their "Rennlist" address plate, but decided against it.
Did a quick test with the man-o-meter. Didn't bother to investigate how to zero the meter. The delta was real close to -5.0 inH2O.
Not that I had any doubts about the integrity of the UAOS...
Did some work on my winter wheels a couple of days ago. Maybe I can have them ready to go by the time the engine is close to getting a little workout on the track.
These are the rear wheels.
I'll give them about a week to cure and then mount the tires. I should be able to get going on painting the fronts before then...
Put a few more miles on today. A little over 22. I made the mistake of shopping first. Decided to head home before the ice cream melted...
One thing I have noted is a howling/ whistling sound frequently in the area of the fuel fill. There must be a pump in that area related to fuel vapors. It's quite annoying. Would like to learn more about this. Anyone with insight into this? Doc?
I assume you are trying to equate the sound I reference with the cowl. The cowl is secure. And the noise is noted while parked (engine running). I can sometimes hear it when driving. I usually just turn up the music or run the engine up to 6000 rpm...
In my experience this can be caused by one of the vent / regeneration valves being bad in the evaporative emissions system, as you suspected. One of the valves is behind the RF tire on top of the carbon canister.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...Vent_Valve.htm
The other is in the engine bay, its the valve the you can usually hear clicking rapidly in a hot engine.
The whistling will usually come before a CEL. I have also seen driveability / LTFT issues arise from the regen valve being faulty.
Hope this helps!
That's it! Great information. Thanks.
The Pelican article is spot on. Except they identify the sound as blowing across a coke bottle. It sounds much more like a beer bottle to me.
Who the hell thought a tamper proof screw should be used to hold the MAF sensor in place? I guess the dealer would be the only one to change a MAF out? Probably the same clown that designed the fuel cooler system. So I ordered a T20 tamper proof torx bit. Might arrive before the MAF sensor does.
Had to get the old one out before ordering a new one. I came across many different Bosch part numbers in my search. Now I know which one to order (and have done so). The one I ordered, initially, from Amazon was coming from Latvia. After no delivery in eight weeks, I told them to F-off.
I also thought the use of the security screw was odd. I bought a security bit 'kit' from Harbor Fright about 20 years ago. I don't remember what I paid but it looks like it's currently selling for $6.79.
Perfect. I don't anticipate being near a Harbor Freight until I return to work. Whenever that happens to be. I ordered the one bit I need. It's $1.43 and $4.00 shipping.
I ran
Speedy
for a while, to check some signals. Cam deviation on bank #1 was as high as -4.98 degrees when just started, and slowly went down to about -4.4 degrees. The coolant was a lot higher than I would like, so I shut things off. There was no air being pushed through the radiators, so maybe next time (if I try again) I'll put a big fan in front of the car. The other option will be to pull data while driving. I'm not crazy about that idea, but it's an option. Need to understand why it is getting so hot. I think the fans are working and there shouldn't be much debris collected since the last time I cleaned out the radiators. Need to do some checking. The coolant level is well above where it used to normalize - I don't think that should be a factor. I didn't confirm the 160 degree thermostat functioned as it should, before installation. I suppose that's a possibility as well.
I've been trying to improve cooling on my 2000 c4 since I got it. In std form it's
barely adequate, coolant above boiling seams to be 'normal'. This helped a lot but still not enough if you drive hard in warm weather:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...adiator-2.html
stupid question, but have you checked to make sure your coolant cap or bleeder are not leaking pressure? Do you know if your cooling system is building the proper pressure when hot?
I saw in your thread you replaced the rads and put in a low temp thermostat, did you by chance look at your water pump impellers?
Back to this: Thanks for the tip, Kris. I messed around with it a little today when I heard the beer bottle whistle again. I removed the fuel fill cap and nothing changed. There is a small port at the front of the fuel door opening. Plugging that hole stopped the sound. Seems like a pretty good indicator it's the vent valve.
Sounds like that's the culprit! When you go to replace the valve, blow out the vent line with some air as dirt and spiders can sometimes build up in that line.
Where did you get your low temp thermostat? I remember Jake giving some advice on those awhile back. Said some of them are total crap and are worse than the original 180 degree stat. They were tested and found to be way out of a normal acceptable range. I think the low temp thermostats from LN Engineering are certified (or at least checked I think). Just guessing....
Yes, the cap i brand new, latest rev, and bleeder seams tight. I have not checked pressure with any instrument, what is the std procedure to do this?. Water pump was changed 10k miles ago and have no excess play...haven't check it but the odds of it being bad is low. Next winter I will changed the coolant, check the water pump and maybe install the center radiator if I don't find any other issues. Do note that my drives are in hot weather (27c) and uphill/downhilll a lot of the time, basically hill climb so it really loads the engine without high speeds.
Went over 100 miles on the trip meter today. Took a slow victory lap around the track to celebrate (no third gear...). Slow because it needs to be mowed again. Parked it with 112+ on the trip meter. Temps stayed around normal. Never gets to the mark at the high end of the range. It burped a little coolant yesterday. It should burp a bit more. The level is still near the max mark. Maybe I should pull a little out...
Requisite photo: These poppies are over 4 feet high.
My typical commute during the summer is 37c but flat.
Last year I added the center radiator, LN low temp thermostat, new water pump and fresh coolant.
Temps are much lower than before.
Normally around 180ish during the stop and go traffic in the summer.
The dash gauge is very inaccurate.
I used my Snap-on scanner to log the temps.
No driving over the past few days. Only in and out of the garage. My son came over and we changed the oil in his Miata. He's planning a trip to
Tail of the Dragon
to celebrate his birthday (late July). We did a fairly thorough inspection to reduce his risk of issues cropping up. His car looks pretty solid. We need to investigate the timing belt. He essentially got no records or receipts with the car, when he bought it.
I did mount the rear tires on the freshly painted wheels. Looks as though I will get close to half an inch of additional ground clearance just from the tires. Need to see if this causes a problem with the inner fenders. I still figure on adding spacers to give 1/4" - 3/8" above each shock and strut.
The new MAF sensor arrived today. Only about four days! It was worth the extra $50. After all, this one actually arrived. It took nearly eight weeks of waiting on the other one, before I canceled the order. Should get the special tool in a day or two, so I won't have to use pliers to remove the MAF screws.
Maybe I can make up an excuse to go for a drive soon. Working from home has its drawbacks... But not many.
Coolant system pressure checks system pressure checked at 18.85 psi cap pressure checked to open at 20.3 psi close at 14.5 psi must be totally open 26 psi when testing all out of OEM manual
bought the adapter to work with my coolant pressure tester on Amazon.
Got to go for a drive today. First stop was to get my back cracked. After that, I went back toward home but took a detour to the west. I ended up in Hell.
But before going through Hell, I purposely went to a few roads that are reasonably twisty. Put about 70 miles on
Speedy
today. That would be my normal daily drive if I went to the office. There are no roads like this on the way to the office...
Noted a little oil smoke on start up. Probably the rings are still finding their groove (so to speak). Car ran well; never went above the hot line on the temperature gauge. I wasn't babying the engine either. I think it was a nice mild workout. Still need to re-align the engine and transmission mounts, install a CV boot, the LF fender liner and the MAF. Still haven't installed the little lower fender flares at the rear. Next time Speedy gets on the lift, there are a few things to address.
Hope to get another couple of cans of primer soon, so I can paint the front wheels. I'd really like to see how the car sits with the tall tires. Then it will be time to analyze tire clearance and see what can be done for a little more lift.
No good deed goes unpunished. I was on the white-flag lap (is that racist?) of mowing the track. Ultimately I had the idea of running a few laps when I have the front wheels painted and the tires mounted (on
Speedy
). Looks like we've got a problem...
I haven't had a chance to pull the wheel off yet. My guess is
Roddy
will need a new spindle. I've already performed this job, so it should come back to me like riding a bike. Joy....
I wasn't thinking about it properly, yesterday. As usual, in the middle of the night, I realized all I had to do was lift the front of the tractor using the bucket. So I did just that, this morning. And of course, the wheel fell right off.
The outer end of the spindle has snapped off. So I ordered a new spindle, bearings and hub. The bushings inside the "control arm" are worn. This provides for a lot of slop. I tried to remove those bushings when that spindle snapped in two a few years ago. I might need to buy a new arm in the future if this next one fails. Or find the right tools for pressing out the old ones and pressing in the new ones (I bought years ago).
Took
Speedy
for a short trip today. All good so far. About 215 total miles on the rebuild. Used a turkey baster to pull a little coolant out of the reservoir. It's just above the MIN level now. No reason for concern on the temperature gauge. Should hook up the Durametric again soon and make sure things are still good.
Got another part today. Should fix that beer-bottle whistle.
Don't you wish all vehicles came with their own jack system?
Scott, I think I read you have a Wahler LTT also? I took mine out of the car today and found it was not operating correctly, check the last post:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-new-life.html
Nick - Thanks for the tip. My expectations have not really been met with the low temp thermostat that I bought. You provide some interesting data. I have plans to investigate further. Fortunately, there hasn't been a reason for alarm. Temperatures have indicated below the area I would have serious concern. But as I say, I am underwhelmed with the (observed) cooling performance to this point.
Good day today. I got to go to work! Yea!
Had to get screened and collect my PPE package. It consisted of five face masks. There were a handful of guys working in the garage. I think I had the whole engineering building to my self. Normally more than 1000. Caught up on the projects that require my presence. Can continue the analysis and data collection without being in the office. I may need to do some testing in a vehicle - which will require a return to work. Taking a 70 mile drive once every week or two, for work, might not be such a big deal. More miles on
Speedy
is a good thing. Might even enjoy more frequent visits to the office. Especially if I am all alone...
Speedy
ran fine. Really enjoying the peace of mind, after making significant improvements. Just have to stay on track with the break-in.
Did get some tractor parts today. The spindle, hub, bearing and lug nuts.
I cut the upper spindle bushing out yesterday. It's quite an operation. The tractor is too far from an electrical source, so I had to load the generator into the back of Angus (Angus Podgorny, if you must know). Used a Dremel tool to grind away enough material to knock the bushings out. This will make a big difference going forward.
Today's prize.
Had a chance to put some more miles on
Speedy
today. It used to be so easy. Now, instead of going to work each day, I get to visit my chiropractor about five times a month. Hit close to 360 miles on the engine today. I figure once I hit 134k, I'll drain out the break-in oil. That will put me at about 660 miles total.
Painted the front wheels for the winter tires, yesterday. They'll need the better part of a week to fully cure. I'll bet placing them in the sun, in our upcoming 90 degree days, might assist in that process.
For those that have been hanging on the edge - wondering if the tractor got fixed...
I'm pleased to report all went well. It handles like a Porsche now...
Decided to install the tag for the IMS Solution. Just to register the unit, I have filled in the card. I'm not concerned with the warranty. It's really about letting LN know where this unit landed. If this engine fails, it won't be due the the IMSS. That's not even a consideration. I expect this car to out live me. If it doesn't, the engine will live on in another one. I put the barcode tag in the door jam.
Put the serial number tag over the retrofit sticker.
Still nice, but it just keeps getting dirtier. And won't get any better...
Do u think u r gonna swap out the low temp t-stat? I know the dash guage isnt that accurate but im seeing no improvement and it might even be a little worse then the factory t-stat. The needle sits at the right side if the 0 and yes i have confirmed the fans are running correctly. i also have cfs rads. Im not sure it the ln low temp is a different design? I may just go back to factory 180. Your thoughs?
Your observations are the same as mine. I am not seeing an improvement at the gauge, nor with the Durametric. I expect I'll go with the low-temp thermostat offered by LN. I think it will be best to have it on-hand when I remove the Wahler unit. After which, I will test it and try to duplicate the measurements that Nick performed in the thread he referenced.
Hmm..there was a recent thread on someone who got an aftermarket Wahler brand low temp thermostat and ran into higher than normal temps. He removed the Wahler LT stat and tested it and found it to be way off and did not close or open properly. Only get the certified tested LT thermosats from LN Engineering, or Porsche regular thermostat. They really do have higher quality control standards. Link
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ew-life-6.html
yea that prompted me to ask the question. In addition to the temp issue i am having a random low coolant light that usually turns on when the car gets to temperature. Im thinking mine has an issue opening. I did fill it with an airlift and put the correct amount of coolant in. When the coolant is cool enough to open the cap its always full and the light is off. It could just be the sensor but its easier to swap the t-stat then the sensor.
I think the consensus is the wahler unit is junk
I am having the same issue with the wahler 160 thermostat, I have OBD digital read outs on the 02 "son" and my 04, before doing the water pump both cars shared the same number on weekend rides, I did the Wahler thermostat and water pump on the 04 in April and having issues with the temps, not over heating but running a good 10 degree hotter than before, I did the waterpump last month and this time I used L&N 160 thermostat on the 02 car, car temps are great, I suspect the Wahler is not opening clearly all the way, been trying to get an answer from Warehouse 33 for last 3 weeks and no answer.
PS just tried calling again, same message, leave E mail
I'm getting ready to order the low-temp thermostat from LN and figured I should order the next batch of oil at the same time. I just looked at the offerings and didn't see what I think I want next. Isn't there an intermediate oil between the initial break-in oil and a full synthetic? Maybe I just skipped over it.
Any leads on deals from LN? I know they offer discounts on occasion. The fact that I'm doing so little driving right now, allows me a little time before actually needing to place an order.
Finally got
Speedy
back on the lift. Swapped out the old whistling beer bottle.
Shifted the trans and engine rearward about 3/16". I have detected a little unusual handling when the car raises up on the suspension under hard acceleration. The only difference, I can figure, is the location of the engine and trans. We'll have to see if this is it. It could be my imagination, but it doesn't seem to have that "planted" feel I remember.
Spotted a little drop of oil on the floor under the car. There's a little weeping at the front of the sump plate. Looks like good incentive to pull the plate when I drain out the break-in oil. Everything else looks dry and reasonably clean.
Removed the crappy LF inner fender liner and installed one that looks better.
Added the little side vent. Looks as though there is still one piece missing. Maybe a vertical flap?
That's definitely it. Pretty much exactly what I envisioned. It would be the first thing to get taken out at a RallyCross.
Thanks for quoting me, too. I have to laugh at the typos and spelling mistakes. I'm working on some ideas for robustness and protection. Not much is needed at the front, except protecting the nose and keeping debris out of the radiators. Figure I'll be testing the winter tires on the car soon. I did a quick look at (potential) tire clearance issues at the rear. I don't think there will be a problem. The inner fenders are not at risk in jounce.
Mounted and balanced the front winter tires. Good timing. We've had about four straight days with highs in the 90s. And three or four more to come.
When I bought these, the specs posted indicated that the diameter of these two sizes were identical (to the tenth of an inch). As soon as they were delivered, I could tell the rears were significantly taller. The fronts are only about 1/4" taller that the stock tires.
The rears are closer to 3/4" taller. I'll have to calculate the delta between the two. The front diff might not appreciate such a difference.
Just when everything was coming up roses.
I installed the winter wheels/tires today and went to back out of the garage for a couple of quick photos. Only one problem; I couldn't move. Checked the fronts since they are so very close to the calipers. Nope, no problem there. Had to get the car in the air to see if something was interfering at the rear. It was clear the calipers were not interfering.
What do you know? The rear track rod is contacting the inside of the wheel. I thought I was so clever making 16" wheels work. Turns out they don't, and I'm not so clever after all. Need to find some 17 x 8 wheels now (and tires to match). It's obvious I didn't do a thorough job of checking these outside of brake concerns.
It did look nice for five minutes or so.
I have always been curious if the position of a reinstalled engine made a difference in these cars. I've never noticed any differences in handling in customers cars, but have never been able to actually test with a car I drive regularly. Did you feel any difference after shifting the engine back? Which position lined up with the original position?
The new rims and tires looked great! Too bad they will not work! Forgive me if you have explained this already, but what is the reasoning for wanting to go with 16" rims and mounting snow tires in the middle of summer? Do you just want to be REALLY prepared incase of a freak snowstorm?!
Good questions. I noticed that things didn't line up with the old marks when I did the install. I was able to shift everything rearward to their original location. I haven't driven the car since I did that, so I don't know if things are different/ better.
The front wheel/tire combination will be fine. I wouldn't mind another few millimetres of clearance. Thin spacers would address that. The reason I went with these wheels, is the fact that I already have them. They are extras from my 944 S2. The fronts are 17x7 Cup IIs. The rears are 16x8 D90s. If you're with me, so far, good. It's going to get weird from here on.
We have a 1/2 mile dirt track in our backyard. I plan to use
Speedy
in RallyCross events once the engine is broken-in. We hold as many as three at our track each year. The next one is scheduled for August. My ideal wheel size for this - and for winter use - is 7" in front and 8" in rear. Finding 17x8 wheels for this car has proven difficult. I thought I'd cheat the system with the 16x8 wheels. We know now how that worked out.
At the same time as going narrower and higher in aspect ratio, I wanted to gain tire diameter to increase ride height slightly. After lots of calculating and tire shopping, I thought I had it figured out. Now I need to hunt down a pair of 17x8 or even 17x8.5 wheels and the right size tires. I can anticipate more questions - but I'm done for this round.
Put the summer wheels back on yesterday. I get to go for a drive today. Messed around with ideas on mounting one of my Element fire extinguishers. Decided on this. Easy access from either seat.
If you haven't already ordered a replacement, I have used one in decent shape you can have for free. I had completely forgotten I replaced mine when I first bought the car. It has some scuffing on the bottom edge but nothing serious.
Had a chance to go for a drive. Getting closer to 134k.
Found some good roads. The best one was one of my favorite rally roads. It happens to be unpaved. It was good fun inducing a little power-on oversteer.
Looks like some of the road stayed with me.
Might need to visit the car wash soon.
One step forward and one step back. The beer bottle whistle has not been cured with the installation of the new vent valve. There's probably a slight obstruction in the vent tube causing the sound. I'll take that tube out next time I get in there. Low priority.
The good news - shifting the engine and trans rearward has returned the handling to what I recall before the engine build.
The "tool" finally showed up. It's useless. The hole is too small. The screws are going to get neutered.
It's not all lost - I spent about two hours on the tractor (that handles like a Porsche) mowing the track and most of the infield areas that we use for a RallyCross. I saw two bucks while out there. This is the bigger of the two. Looks as though he is guarding his mate.
My Element Fire extinguisher is mounted on my rollbar.
A 2.5# Halon Fire extinguisher is mounted in front of the passenger seat.
I have Elements in our minivan and 2006 Mustang.
Those are both in the glove boxes.
Right. No roll bar to mount to in this car. No glove box either. I looked at the idea of the oddments bin in the door or the little storage bin on the passenger side. Neither seemed as good as where I ended up mounting it. It's so small, it doesn't get in the way of anything. Near instant access if ever needed (hopefully, never).
OP: Looking through your thread. I'm impressed. I have also many questions. I've sent you PM with no response. I'm starting a rebuild;d thread of my own and would love comments.
Best,
I don't think that's feasible. It's pretty stout. Ended up grinding it down so I could get the torx bit in there. It would work, but I decided to dig through my collection of screws. Found one that was an almost identical match - with a phillips head. But only one. Found two others that were close enough to go with. The two shown to the left were too long and not needed. The one near the 5/16 mark on the gauge is one of the two I ended up using. All is good.
No PM received. I've seen your thread. Looks as though you've got some work ahead. What's the significance of 519? That number is somehow familiar to me...
... oh yeah...
Got to go for another drive today. Not too far, but more than zero. Less than 200 miles to go before the target oil change.
Visited a mail box to drop off my IMSS registration card. Went to the car wash too. It looked good for about two miles - then I hit the dirt roads again on my way to my back-cracker.
It must have been Monday when I ordered two wheels off eBay for the rear. They're 17x8.5 Boxster wheels. I have confidence these will actually fit. Need to decide between two tire sizes. Either 235/45R17 or 245/45R17. I'm leaning toward the 245. It will provide a little bit more ground clearance.
Also received two Wix oil filters a few days ago. Need to order the oil and an LN low temp thermostat. I figure I'll swap that out when I do the oil change and drop the sump plate.
Went for a quick lap of the track when I got home today. Just about hit two deer that jumped out right in front of me. Good thing I wasn't on a hot lap! I decided to park it after that.
I found a close BMW equivalent. (BMW part # 51 11 8 235 606 ) and bought a dozen of the generic version
here
. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it was a dumb move by Porsche to use the silly anti-tamper Torx screws. One more of my 'list' items taken care of.
On the left, Porsche tamper resistant Torx screw. Middle, BMW screw. Right, BMW screw with tip nipped off.
The "tamper-proof" screws are an emission thing, the first I seen of them was in late 70's on carburated choke systems to keep laymen from "adjusting" the choke. They were designed for the heads to actually break-off and leave a round headed button that couldn't be removed, the official removal procedure was to use a hack saw blade to cut a slot in the rounded head to fit a screw driver in to remove. A few of us "innovative" techs at Ford created a tool kinda like a inverted ease-out to use in an butterfly impact to whip them out quickly..
I have never had a problem removing the "torx tamperproof" screws. Used mainly a Matco torx set, or some from an auto-parts store, but I'm sure some are out-of-spec and don't fit correctly..
break-away screws, designed that when the desired torque is reached, the head breaks off
Those bolts with the break-off heads are frequently used for ignition lock cylinders. The reasoning should be obvious.
Good find on the BMW screws, SoCal. BelMetric is a great place for all sorts of things - unless you order a meter of M5 left-handed threaded rod in the middle of a pandemic.
I haven't used BelMetric that much because we have McMaster-Carr out here on the west coast. I'm using BelMetric more now because I think since weed was legalized in California, the entire shipping department at McMaster is stoned all day. I was replacing some BMW vacuum lines and since the OEM ones were plastic and expensive, I decided to use copper. I ordered two 1 meter pieces of 5mm tubing and they sent each piece in separate gynormous cardboard tubes. I
t doubled the shipping (but at least the pipes weren't scratched on arrival).
I like the time-bomb. Nice. What kind of explosive mix will you be putting in those tubes?
Got the wheels yesterday. They came with really nice tires too. The shipping was free, so I guess it doesn't matter.
Fortunately, I was able to get the tires off; without having to go to a tire shop. They're all sanded and ready for paint next time the humidity is low. This is before sanding. There's a bit of rash.
The nice center caps were a fair trade for having to deal with the tires. Good thing the price was right, the caps were
not
aligned with the valve stems!
About 160 miles to go for the first oil change. I'll eat up most of that on Thursday and Friday. No issues or concerns, other than the water temp being higher than should be seen for a properly functioning low temp thermostat. I'm not happy with the high cam deviation number I'm seeing on bank #1 (~ -4.3). Other than really small things, I am most satisfied so far.
The humidity was tolerable today. I used an old can of paint on one wheel and a new one, on the other. They look almost the same in this shot. I'm not so sure if they are the same. Doesn't matter. Once covered in dirt and mud, there'll be no way to tell.
Yeah, FedEx and UPS almost collided with each other in the driveway! Our silly dog goes nuts when she hears a delivery truck coming up the driveway. This morning she got to go with my wife to the feed store. Evidently they were at the barn when FedEx arrived so she got her barks out. Then they headed out to the store and spotted UPS coming down the road. My wife said she figured it was on its way to us, then she saw the truck turn in our driveway...
All that I can say about that is that my neighbor has an oil-less compressor.
Speaking of deliveries, your package was supposed to be there Saturday. USPS "2 day Priority" is at 5 days and counting.
Oil-less compressors. The answer to a question that should never have been asked. What a stupid idea. Here's my solution. My wife calls it the 'mother of all compressors'. She's funny.
All mounted and balanced. Just waiting on the snow...
USPS has been my last choice since it took three weeks for the "2-day Priority" to reach me from Belmetric. Is it too soon to repeat my airline luggage joke?
Hey - one week isn't too bad. A cool dude sent me some goodies.
And a little extra surprise.
And since I've officially defaced the car, I decided to go full on.
Put a bit over 70 miles on
Speedy
today. Went to work to 'clean out my desk'. We're working from home as much as possible now. I think I can live with that.
Still need at least 90 more miles before I will consider draining the break-in oil. I figure to install the dirt/ winter tires when it's on the lift. Probably will fit the skid plate at that time. Yeee haaa
Quick update. All is good. Changed the oil. Overfilled it by putting in 10 qts. It took 10.5 to fill the new engine. Guess about 1.5 qts were still hiding in there. Dropped the (full) oil filter and installed a dry one in its place. Should get closer to the proper fill level after this.
New low temp thermostat and rear shocks. Nice of LN to include the thermostat tool.
Oil was quite clean. A bunch of light ferrous debris was on the magnetic drain plug. Looked normal.
New shocks and slight increase in ride height with spacers.
New wheels and tires on. About 1/2" increase in ride height due to spacers and tires.
Won't be posting much here anymore. The "management" has seen fit to embrace the SJW and cancel-culture attitude. It seems tolerance and diversity are only acceptable as long as it aligns with their ideals. Once my membership expires, I won't be renewing and therefore will lose all photo posting privileges. I've already exceeded the non-member quota by about one million...
That's a big loss for this community.
Following your rebuild has been very educational, entertaining and encouraging for me to do more of my mechanical work myself.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/2000x1333/dsc_0574_30ef9afb98087b6454a7073894a1b62b51ab9d20.jpg
Scott - small favor to ask .Would you mind measuring the rear shock od ? The question really is : will a 2 inch coilover sleeve fit and extend past the spring perch .I need to lower my rear by about 1 inch due to lighter engine swap .The stock shock dampening is fine and would like to use them with sleeves and new coil springs .
Really have enjoyed your posts and appreciate the amount of effort you put into them .
Tell us about the lighter engine.
You might have to modify the retaining clip that holds the perch. Another option might be to get a 2" spring that's one inch shorter than the stock spring. But then you would still need to workout the upper mount. Here's a shot of the shock OD.
thanks -the lighter engine is an ls6 .It's about 60 #'s lighter and weight is slightly higher and forward from the flat 6 .Rear is up about 1 inch .Thought about lowering springs but would like some adjustability .One more question -at the spring perch will the 2 inch sleeve id .slide over it ?Need the sleeve to extend past the groove .The top of the shock body is the sleeve stop .
I'm not sure I follow the question. As far as I can tell, the perch can only go upward and then off the shock. It will not go lower. And if it goes up, there is nothing to hold it there.
Ok - with the perch off -will a 2 inch id sleeve slide over the the shock body past the old perch position . .I am assuming there is a groove in the shock body and a retaining clip and that the shock body od is constant from top to bottom .The objective is to lower the spring perch with a slip on 7 inch coil sleeve .
The sleeve is a externally threaded aluminum tube with a machined stop at the top .The stop rests on the top of the shock body .The spring perch is a threaded collar .
OK - that should work, if the stop is at the top. If the lower clip is not removable, you could probably machine it off. If I get a chance, I'll look at one of the shocks I took off, keeping that thought in mind.
I was able to confirm the perch can be easily worked off the shock. The clip can be removed without much bother, as well. You should be good to go with your plan. The fact that the (collar) stop is at the top of the shock is critical.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/2000x1117/img_1433_baf84014f0d0aa3b6fae83b03dad6ef0f8cde906.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/2000x1130/img_1478_93086c27b3e484c37ffa0baab0096f12538f4e9b.jpg
@Scott at Team Harco
, have you seen this?
Here's the post:
https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...l#post16884794
Tarrett is doing the suspension parts.
Not a lot of info, but definitely a possible source of parts.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/2000x1333/img_1278_11b70c80f4484b6282193edf699db07e857419b0.jpg
Is the yoke a nice to have or is it required to mount a 996 motor on an engine stand? Getting ready to pull my engine to rebuild it and if it required I need to get one ordered.
As Bruce mentions, it is nice to have. You have complete access to the the back of the engine - think IMSB, RMS, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. You don't have to drop the engine off the stand to get at this area.
If you decide to send your block halves to LN - I still have the box with foam inserts specifically for shipping. It carries a $100 core charge. It would probably cost nearly that to send it back to get the core refund. The point being, I would let it go for cheap to anyone that wants to come and get it. Since you are in Michigan, it might be something you could use and might not involve a huge expense to get it.
Once I get the engine out and determine if it is just a cracked head or if it is the cylinders I will let you know. May do the complete overall anyway once I have it apart. I have a good 3.4 that I am going to swap into the chassis when I get the engine out but I would eventually like to put the original engine back in. Did you happen to keep the box you sent the heads out in as well?
I still have one box and all of the hard foam packing. My wife took the other box to ship a saddle back. Finding a large enough box is easier than making the packing fit.
Scott,
I didn't read the whole thread agsin and don't recall if you addressed these questions. If you did, i appologize.
Did you have to do any tuning by going to 3.8 or are you using the stock tune. Is it possible to go to 4.0 on a 3.4? Just curious why you chose 3.8.
No tuning. I followed the recommended start-up and break-in procedure as suggested for RND engines. The ECU seems to have adapted to the displacement increase. I selected 3.8 because that is what LN suggested. If you want to go to 4.0 you may want to bring that up with them.
We don't offer a 3.4 to 4.0 - using the 3.6 crank is problematic due to the location of the wrist pin and clip insertion hole in the block being different for an engine using the 78mm crank versus the 82mm crank. Yes, it's possible, but very costly to go the extra .2 liters. That's why we keep the 3.4 to 3.8 as the largest option.
The ECU should be able to adjust as long as the sensors are operating properly and you don't have any issues like bad injectors or vacuum leaks. Smoke testing the engine is a must as are new injectors. We also recommend replacing all the sensors that can affect tune and adaptation.
However, ECU tuning can optimize the engine and squeeze out a few more horsepower, but it adds significant cost as you'll need a custom tune and extensive dyno time to ensure the tune is correct. Using an off the shelf tune not designed for the combo would be very bad.
Still going strong. A little over 136,000 now. Had to go through Hell to get there.
Not without incident though. I hit a big rock while checking my National rally. Lost a lot of oil in a real hurry...
Put the skid plate on the next day. Should have gotten to that a little sooner...
Don't look for me over here, other than the technical forums. This site has decided to go full retard. There's a new place where free speech and open minded thinking is not suppressed.
I just signed up and look forward to your "shenanigan's" over there. Hopefully they won't give me so many time outs as they have here...
Did you ever get a lifted suspension? How do you like rallying the 996?
Haven't had a chance to spend any time there yet as I've been deep into a clutch/pressure plate replacement
that should have been done two years ago when I had the motor out!
Still need me to come out and put that motor in. Ill have some availability late fall. Lmk when my ticket is ready
.
Sorry op its a thing we do when bill surfaces.
Do you happen to remember the settings that you used - etc. temp and time. I'm planning to do the same but I'm a bit cautious what comes to the aluminium or other sensitive metals or parts. And esp. here when there are different metals joined together.
I know chemicals play the role here but if we assume that the cleaning fluid is good for sensitive metals what's left are indeed time and temp variables.
That result looks incredibly good so it would be nice to know the sercret.
--
Mika
