Cabracer - Track/Autocross/Weekend Warrior build

Hi guys! New here, and excited to be a new owner of a 2000 C2 Cabriolet with just 72k miles. The purpose of this car is to be a weekend toy car to take to HPDE, Autocross, Canyon Carving and general weekend warrior! Making more power on these NA engines seem tough so I�ll be going the reverse and losing weight by removing as much as my creature comforts will permit. The spirit of the unbuild is a GT3-esque wannabe with lightweight over crazy power. After all the GT3 only has 55 more hp than this model, and is also 6speed RWD. Same universe, different galaxy. I unfortunately can�t weigh the car in Quarantine but the range I can find online is from 2,904 to 3,197 pounds. That�s quite a range, and I�m guessing the higher end is for C4 or Turbo models or Tiptronic models. (Once we�re free from quarantine, I�ll get it weighed properly and update the calculations. My car has VERY limited options. Heck, the left side option buttons of the center console are all blank buttons... so I�m taking this car is on the lighter end. It does have Sat/NAV, and 18� wheels, but that�s the only thing extra I can find. So I�m guesstimating this car to start at 3070 lbs. Hope you enjoy the build (or the un-building?). Also thinking of making this a YouTube channel/series, would that be interesting to anyone or would I be self-humoring myself? �� Starting Weight: ~3070lbs -15 lbs: Spare and Tools in Frunk 3 -20 lbs: Sat Nav/Radio, Sat Nav CD holder, Lower console trim, 4 speakers 14 - 30 lbs: Removed front carpet. The sound deadening material is heavier than you think! We had a week of rain here a few weeks ago and learned that my top has a leak somewhere Found some water in the foot wells. -25.2 lbs: Rear seats are out -18.5 lbs: Rear carpet + 4 floor mats 66 -45 lbs: Muffler Bypass Coming soon: - Front Seats (~40lbs?) Current weight: ~2915lbs

Congrats! Weird photo...makes it look as though the left side of the car is bigger/fatter/heavier and sort of drooping, or the right side has been pushed in somehow... I sure it's an illusion caused by the photo but it still looks somewhat bizarre... Just sayin' Good luck with the (un)build!

Last night, I pulled out the radio/sat Nav, lower center console with Sat Nav CD compartments (there were still CD’s inside and it works!!), side leather and carpeted trim pieces. My hand scale estimates this at about ~20 pounds all together. I’ll be keeping AC as I live in San Diego, and 10-20 days a year, top down is too hot for me. So I’ll relocate the Temp control to the upper center console, and do a delete of the lower. It gives me more knee space as well. Next will be removing the 6 speakers (2 on dash, 2 on doors, 2 in rear inner quarter panel. I took the rears out to clean the water drains and man they are not light! Am I missing any? Is there an Amp somewhere? Cables to each speaker worth pulling out? Seem to be behind trim, which is behind plastic, which is behind carpet. Is there a radio/sound control unit somewhere, or does it go from radio to cables to speakers? Let’s lose some weight!! Sat nav w/ CD, lower console trim, lower console covers. Space Grey

Amp in the frunk

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Thanks! And good eye... now you�re making me wonder lol. Another angle. The driveway is lightly graded, so the right side is slightly elevated. And not sure if my phone is playing games with me (Galaxy S9+). Pretty good camera but idk. I also feel the passenger side motor mount is shot, so will be replacing/fixing that. It does make the right side exhaust droop ~1cm so I�m sure that doesn�t help the illusion.

^^^ That ones much better - it's partially a perspective thing (the closer side looking larger and foreshortened) but I think the angle/grade of the driveway also has a lot to do with the illusion. Yes, your motor mounts look to be hanging low. As long as you're making it a semi-track-car you might want to got with the WEVO or RENNLINE or RSS semi solid motor mounts.There are a few threads (understatement) on the merits/drawbacks of them, that you'll probably want to check out.

San Diego? I saw the Texas plate and was about to ask what part of TX. I won't ask since I know that San Diego TX is down near Corpus Christi.

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Haha car came from Dallas area. The peg previous owner drove it to visit family and left it. I actually used to live in Dallas. But the car and I are both in San Diego now. We moved separately lol.

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Thanks for the note. Looks like I've got some research to do!

I doubt you are starting at 3000lbs, probably more like 3200. Either way... This is what I have done to a .2 cab with similar goal in mind. I have not weighed it since doing all of this but guess I am around 3100-3150 with 1/4 tank fuel. (.2 is little heavier than a .1) REMOVED floor mars, rear seat tops, bottoms and seat belts, spare tire and tool kit, mufflers and muffler brackets, stock drivers seat, lead battery, factory radio, stock wheels, stock springs and front camber plates. ADDED rennline track mats, lithium battery, sparco bucket seat, 6 point harness, rollbar, Carplay radio, lighter BC Forged wheels and RE-71 tires, Tarrett caliper studs and front camber plates, HR sport springs, FVD oil baffle, ims solution, Ferodo DS2500 pads and steel brake lines. I think thats all of it., if not its pretty close. Either way, I am probably around 3150. Rollbar and harness add weight back in that you take out. I am taking it to its inaugural track event next weekend. Enjoy your build and know it gets expensive! Its a lot of fun though and worth it! If you want to really take weight out, remove the soft top completely and associate motors. I bet that gets you 100-150lbs off.

OP - do you plan on putting in a rollbar if you will be taking it to the track? That is going to add weight. Several clubs will not let you run without.

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Thanks. I was curious of the weight difference between a cab vs a coupe with the exact same options. Any insight? A roof vs a soft top mechanicals and I'm sure some additional reinforcements for rigidity. I like your list. Will save it for reference. I'll be living with a few less creature comforts than you New to porsche but not to racing. Have lots of experiencing losing money in cars and racing lol. Hence going on a diet vs adding power for this car.

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So that's a dilemma for me. The factory roll bar seems safe from the few rollovers I've researched. If I did add an aftermarket one, I'd remove the factory ones to offset the weight. Yes some clubs will not permit without but most that I'll be running with here in Socal do. TBD for now. If I do, it'll be a standout color, like a gt3 orange >

Some more progress last night after putting the little one to bed. Front carpet is out! Man, that sounds deadening material is heavy! Front Carpet is out! Seats are out!

Looking good, curious to see how much weight you will shave off. How much is a seat?

Cool thread. I have been contemplating putting my car on a more strict diet. I would be really interested if you could weigh some of the items you've removed. Sound system and carpet especially.

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I’ll borrow the bathroom scale and post an update. The standard speakers are heavy!!! I’m going to guess at least 2-4 pounds each. Either that or I’ve gotten a lot weaker... There’s 6 of those suckers so it should be a good chunk! Plus other than the door speakers, they’re locations aren’t low to the ground either. Plus the amp in the frunk at battery height! I’m curious how much all this wiring weighs. Doesn’t feel negligible.

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​​​​​​​Thanks! I come from racing/driving much lighter convertibles (s2000, Miata, etc.) so I’m used to nimble lightness vs planted heavy weight. So going for more planted nimbleness (?) here. An s2000 weighs ~2800 pounds, so that’s my goal, but with 300hp vs 240hp! All about that HP/lb ratio! Around 1/10 was the goal, but I think we can do better here. The seat feels like at least 40 pounds each... at least. I don’t want to go full Kirby seats since I have a long drive to the track, so looking for lightest reclinable replacements on a budget to minimize the offset.

I track my 99 C2 manual coupe. It has Euro GT3 seats, which removes a huge amount of weight. I also have an original set of seats and I estimate the GT3 seats are 1/3 the weight. Honestly though, I wouldn't spend much on weight reduction. I have found my skill level is not high enough to take advantage of a 100 or even 200 lb reduction in weight. My instructor, who is amazing, can lap Road Atlanta at least 20 seconds faster in my car than I can. I recommend spending the money on a 2 qt deep sump kit with skid plate. The extra oil with the X51 baffle included in the kit will prevent oil starvation in sweeping turns. In addition, a suspension refresh with new bushings along with good tires makes a big difference. I would definitely install a quality roll bar on your cab. Safety first.

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I believe I read the difference was a couple hundred pounds. You should be able to get 75% of that weight lost removing top and motor then getting a hard top and removing liner out of it. I contemplated doing this and completely gutting this cars interior and having a full cage installed with hard top. I just have not brought myself to do it. For now I shot for a track capable street cab. Will know after next weekend if I will take it further or not. Have fun!

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Wow, that’s a lot of weight! Those are some fancy ballin seats. Wish they were in the budget. You’re right. Seat time is ALWAYS more important than modifications, I 100% agree. I always tell ppl to bring out their stock automatic Yaris to Autocross to see what the car is capable of, or what the driver is not capable of. Only then put some sticky summer tires for a season if they’re enticed by the sport. THEN look into modding to their driving style. I’m reaching a point of nibbling at instructor times, so hope the pounds help me out! Always could be refining the driving though, no doubt about that! iRacing/Logitech setup would be getting more love during this quarantine if it wasn’t for this newly acquired car. On a total wet sump car like a Miata, I may do that early on, but with the “hybrid” it does give me some peace of mind. It is definitely on the consideration list. I like the thicker gasket products that increase capacity in the sump by~.5qts. This isn’t a high G force build with crazy corner exit speed/power so i don’t expect oil starvation will be a huge issue. But definitely something to think about. I’ve got suspension updates on the way, stay tuned! Shipping during these times seem delayed all around...

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Here are some data points I found. If this car was a coupe, it would definitely be on the 2904 end. It has very limited options, manual trunk/frunk levers (no electronic buttons - Yay! My access is not conditional on battery life!), so I’m going to start at 2904 + 165 = ~ 3070lbs. Regardless, I’ll settle the hypothesis by weighing it on a proper scale once corona is over with. I am tempted to go to that extreme (full cage + hardtop - softtop) but I live in Sun Diego where the avg temp is 70 and sunny. I just love having the top up and down capability while cruising the 101/1 few times a week, which is where the weekend warrior part comes in. On the fence. Plus if I were to go that route, I might as well just sell it and get a coupe. But seeing my vehicle ownership history, I’ve always leaned towards a vert. What happens next weekend? Can’t leave us hanging like that!

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I was thinking 100 to 200 lbs total net weight reduction. I'm guessing the Euro GT3 seats would be about 25 lbs each lighter, but it may be more. I am heading to my other house this afternoon where I have the 996 in the garage. I am doing a deep clean, so I currently have all the seats out. I will bring a scale and weigh them because I am curious now.

Sooo glad to have another weight reduction thread. Also recommend @996lightweight on instagram for good info. Starting with a ‘99 C2 Coupe. My current list is like this, reductions are estimates... Corbeau suede Seats with manual lumbar BB exhaust Speedtech Cat bypass X-pipe Titanium Lug Bolts Spare Tire and Tool Kit and Jack Floor mats Aftermarket Wheels Track Wheels OZ Light weight Battery Anti gravity lithium Speedtech Headers Estimate is -185 lbs. so far, I need to get this car weighed this track season. Things I need to do.... 2 Carpet under rear seat Lightened Need to do Door trim backside strip Lightened Need to do Dual amplifiers Class D small Need to do Rear bumper beam Remove Need to do

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Which anti gravity battery did you go with?

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Chin HPDE at Atlanta Motorsports Park May 2nd. Should be able to tell if I want to take it further with the car or not after a day on the track. I have been on the fence about that as well.

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i don�t remember the model, it was a direct fit though, H6 maybe? Unfortunately, it died over the winter. I am in the return process now. Hopefully get another one soon.

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It was probably H6, I got the H6 40A upon antigravity�s recommendation and fits and works.

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S2000 and Miatas are on my list of cars to buy. Every other week I feel like I am going to buy a Miata.

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How much weight does that save? Do it. Best bang for your buck. Can't buy so many smiles for under 5k.and if your crash it, who cares. Parts are dirt cheap. Great car to learn how to drive.

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The only other thing I keep going back to is the Mini, just wanna hear that s/c whine and they are relatively cheap like the Miata, just cost more to maintain.

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But you lose the rwd British sports car feel, with Japanese build quality. The ironic part being that the mini is the brit. Yea minis are a headache from my experience. Oil leaks like an audi. Get a 1.8L 94+ or an NB if you don't mind spending a little more. Variable valve timing starts from 2001+.

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Yes, I am still a huge fan. My car just sits for too long. The re-start worked great 2 times, and then stopped. I want to give them another try for sure. Chad here on RL for AG has been great with the return process, so I am just waiting right now.

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I have it down as -24 lbs, but don�t have the calculations with me for before and after sorry.

Just got my car back 03 C2, from corner balance, Weight was 3008 LBS with half tank of fuel. Mods: Muffler delete Ohlins Coilovers Steering wheel replaced with QR hub and OMP Wheel Lower console removed center console removed Rear seats removed RSS Roll bar No spare/toolskit Sparco driver - no slider CAE Shifter 11MM and 15MM wheel spacers I think that about covers anything with an impact on weight. I would really like to take another 150 LBS out. Low hanging fruit still available: Passanger seat Rear seat belt assems Gut frunk LW battery Then we get into rear carpet, full radio removal, cat delete, CF ducktail (so expensive) and other more intensive measures.

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Well done! where do you get the CF ducktail? I am interested. BTW, you really need to get under 3K, now that you are so close!. Rear bumper reinforcement?

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Really, really want this one You Tube

Thrre r also liight weight hoods and can pull the rear glass. Lots of plexy options.

Nice!! Any pics you can share? The carpet will easily get you under 3k. The rear carpet I’d estimate to be AT LEAST 20 pounds. The sound deadening material really does its job, you will notice a lot more engine sound from inside the cab. I personally love hearing all the mechanical bits turning and shifting. Also feels like I can diagnose problems better. The frunk carpet weight is pretty minimal. The spare is most of the weight, amp is lighter than you think as well. I’m planning to use a BT speaker, tucked under the dash, and remove the 6 speakers. They can be an easy 15-20 pounds. I can’t wait to weigh mine! If there is no slider, is your seat just bolted/drilled to the floor?

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The seat is bolted directly to the Sparco floor mount.

Nice, love the dual tone black floor with beige interior. Was that stock? Where did you mount the window switches?

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Thanks, yeah that's how she came. Window switches are rigged at the moment. I want to build the lower console delete that is mocked in the picture and a small center console out of sheet aluminum and mount switches in there, that's the plan anyway. For now, the switches and ash tray are fixed to the brake bracket via zip tie. I'll snap a pic in a bit. It's rigged but it works.

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Nice, exactly what I�m thinking for now, just zipping. The center console doesn�t weight a ton so it�s in there to hide the cables/mess for now. Your shifter looks sick!!

Here�s a pic of the rigged ash tray/switch temp mounting. It�s very solid considering.

If it works, it works!

Been busy in the lockdown but did some maintenance. Replaced front lower control arms due to squeaking ball joint, and MAN these are the best $150 bucks I ever spent. That annoying sound over every speed bump and curb entrance is GONE! Quiet suspension, thank God!!! My car only has 70k miles, but being a 2000, the tired joints are 20 years old. What�s weird is once i removed the LCA, and moved around the ball joint, it made NO noise. So I guess they can make noise under weight but not once removed.

I�ve also noticed that they are quiet when removed. I�d suggest replacing the control arm links too. They�re likely worn out too. My car handled so much better when I replaced mine at 75,000 miles.

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Which links are you referring to?

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These: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00NP51K4W/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00NP51K4W/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm curious what you're actual weight is but if I had to guess, I'd say it's closer to 3250 being a C2/cab The window switch can be moved up to the horseshoe and you can eliminate the ash tray.

The first 250/300lbs(awd) is somewhat easy...then it gets tricky. Some additional ideas...stock.battery is around 55lbs. You can find 5-20lb batteries. Lightweight seats mounted directly to floor/ remove all rear seats/carpet/belts. Remove passenger seats. Airbags x4. rear/door speakers. Remove front/rear crash bar or switch to euro lightweight ones. lightweight impact resorb bar x4. delete rear bumperettes. lightweight wheels/lighter tires lighter exhaust

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Ah ok, I was thinking you were talking about these, but wasn't sure. How much of a difference did it make? What were you experiencing before you changed it that improved after? The ones in the link seem to have polyurethane bushings... did you upgrade all your bushings to poly, or just these?

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The arms shown have a poly bushing that replaces the factory metal type ball bushing. I would not recommend the poly type at this spot (since you are constricting something that was not designed for that). Some members here have reported these arms breaking due to this. However...prior to learning this, I have had the EPS set on my car for about 2 years with heavy track use and have had no issues. I recently switched them over to my 996.2. And yes, they do make a significant difference. I plan to upgrade to these when finances allow... https://www.tarett.com/items/996-997...010-detail.htm

Really surprised tracks out west don't require the rollbar on a cabrio. I've tracked mine quite a bit but was limited to tracks that had little elevation changes and sufficient runoff. It bummed me out because if I would have known I probably would have made it a point to buy a coupe. Even with track requirements aside what I noticed too is on hard cornering the stock seat belts just don't cut it. So you're going to need a harness bar if you really want to progress to faster run groups and if you're going to do that you might as well go for the rollover bar that includes that extra element of safety. Good luck on the project, can't wait to see the end result!

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Most of these are done! Rear is all out. Will post updates pics soon. I'm waiting for the battery to die so I don't just waste our ecosystem haha. Can't wait to do this though, easy 40 pounds at a very high point in the car. I will be keeping all airbags as I do carve canyons on weekends.

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Good idea on the window switches. I was hesitant to remove the center console since it weighs so little but looks so much better with than without. A base coupe is ~2910 with no options. (See first post). My car is a very early 2000 build, with almost 0 options so you can see how I came to the calculations. Also, note people measure in dry and wet, so it�s always + or - 100 pounds depending on fuel. My numbers are likely closer to dry weight but I�d be surprised if I�m anywhere near 3250 starting. That�s what 4S and Turbos start at. A Vinyl top and motor mechanism isn�t nearly as heavy as a differential and spinning snails with extra exhaust pipes. Agreed, I�m all for OEM replacement and a little hesitant on the aftermarket poly designs on this one. When I was testing the play of the arm links, the degrees of movement were quite wide. If it were limited, it would get a lot of resistance from the spring. I�m sure it�s great for track only purposes, but given I have a 6 hour round trip to the nearest track, I�ll save my lower back for a second on the timer. Maybe once I start trailering, I�ll move to poly all around. It depends on the organizer. For most newer cars with OEM pop outs, it�s considered to be safe. After all it has passed NHTSA and DOT requirements. But I�m now leaning on going rollbar regardless, and removing the OEM pop outs. By looking at the designs, my gut tells me they should be similar in weight so no weight added, and a bit of chassis rigidity added. I need this as a cab. Just hoping I don�t trigger another airbag code... You�re right, I�m planning on a 5 point harness once the rollbar and bucket seats are in. Thanks! Stay tuned!

Finally got around to weighing some things. Each rear seat is 12.6lbs x 2 for 25.2lbs. Rear carpet + 4 floor mats is 18.5 lbs. Radio sat nav + Sat nav CD holder is 14.4lbs. (With lower console trim + speakers it was 20lbs)

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Speaking of airbag lights, are you keeping the stock steering wheel or moving on to something more track-centric?

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Stock. If it was an unregistered track only car, I'd go for a smaller wheel. But since I do drive it on the streets, I'd like to keep the airbags for safety. Also the reason I'm not removing door cards and the dash, although I might cut the dash.

Not trying to be a jerk, but what about the driver? Many of us could stand to lose a few pounds, too...

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Absolutely and No offense taken. Driver weight is the least balanced part of the car. And that's the hardest mod.. Personally dropped 25 pounds over the past year. I'm 6 foot at 165lbs. I'm doing 5 more pounds, then I'll be good.

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Looking great so far! Be sure to let us know when you're ready to move forward on that Battery. Antigravity has some options I think you'll find very pleasing for that weight reduction and we'll be sure to make sure you're taken care of. -Chad [email removed]

Working on the muffler bypass today. Pretty much breaking off every rusty exhaust bolt lol. What a PITA.

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I was surprised how easily mine came off and I mean easily compared to some of the horror stories I've seen. I think I got everything off breaking one bolt but the driver side exhaust tip clamp was totally trashed, I basically had to twist it until it snapped and pry it open. Mufflers are heavy so that drops a good amount of weight.

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Lucky for you! Mine are all rusted, but nothing a long breaker bar can�t fix! the worst stories I�ve heard are the header bolts. I hope to never replace the stock headers lol.

Here�s some shots of removing the mufflers. Pretty simple job, remove bumper cover/bumper, wheels, then remove mufflers. Saves 45 pounds off the rear of the car!! Got some cheap 90 degree elbows from the local auto store, and WOW it�s loud. I really don�t want to add an aftermarket muffler, because that�s extra weight but man... I took it for a spin in the morning, and my ear is still ringing. So I may play with a few resonators/bullet mufflers to see if it can lower the dB. If not, I�ll find the lightest mufflers I can find to weld in.

Anyone have experience bolting a roll bar into a cabrio? I am thinking of taking out the factory roll bar and convert the top to manual, and bolt in a roll bar. Could I bolt in a coupe roll bar? They bolt at the shocks and lower seat belt bolt holes. That would also help stiffen the car. I'd prefer to do this rather than use the cabrio bolt in roll bars since they just use front and rear seat belt bolt holes, so wouldn't help stiffen the car.

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I�d love to hear more feedback on this as well. Unfortunately for us cab guys, it seems majority of the track enthusiasts are coupes, so not much info out there. I plan on getting the Autopower cabriolet race roll bar. In messaging with them, they said it is a completely different rollbar than the coupe. It�s also a different part number. So my initial impression is a no. But not completely sure, and may depend on brand? Agreed the seat belt hole/bolt in ones seem more like �style� bars than actual track roll bars. I like the idea of converting the top to manual. Does that take out a good chunk of weight with motors?

I’m not a cab guy, but I remember reading that the coupe rollbar won’t fit a cab. There is a company that makes a half cage for the cab. If I had a cab, I’d probably get one. But I’m more likely to get a Boxster than a cab, especially for a track car. That way I could slowly build a spec Boxster.

I have a DASSPORT Cab roll bar that's freshly powdercoated in black that I was thinking of getting rid of... Only problem is that I'm in Syracuse NY.

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So I kept digging with a supplier and the answer is... maybe. Most cab rollbars bolt to the seatbelt mount OR to the support of the back of rear seats. But coupe mount to either shock towers or to the wheel well. So the answer will depend 1) on the mfg/design 2) coupe vs cab rear design, given that the softtop is removed. Which one were you looking at? I was looking at autopower, but now that I see they bolt to the rear fender wells, I�m a little concerned on rigidity in the case of the worst. I feel wheel wells wouldn�t be as structurally sound as a strut tower?

Okay, here's an official answer. Found an autopower on CL for couple hundred bucks so I couldn't resist. For the autopower, which mounts to the wheel wells, a coupe version will fit on a cab works but with some minor fab. ​​​​​The roll bar installs with no prob but when the top is put down, the main arm of the top hits the rear leg of the roll bar. The top is 95% down, just the last 5% of the way, it comes in contact.

Picked up an Autopower off CL for few hundred bucks, so had to pick it up! Meant for a coupe, but will fab it to fit.

I built 2 SCCA race cars (GT3 1982 Scirocco & ITC 1980 Scirocco) back in the 80s and 90s that I used Autopower rollbars/cages. The first I installed the rollbar, and then later added an add-in front cage, that I had someone weld in. The second I installed a bolt-in roll cage. They were great quality. The hardest part was drilling the first holes. I did drill through a brake line...that taught me to ALWAYS check the other side of whatever you’re drilling!

Thanks for the update. There is a Safety Devices roll bar for sale near me, so may give it a closer look.

The muffler bypass was too loud, so added 4� bullet mufflers. Definitely better, still loud lol. Feels like it brought down the dB by maybe ~2-4dB. Unfortunately not much room to use 6� and don�t want to add weight with aftermarket mufflers. Lightweight comes with sacrifices.