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YOUR RESEARCHTo TT or not to TT? That is the question.
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high (11.3:1) compression ratio
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Part of this is due to the high (11.3:1) compression ratio.
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(My 02 Boxster is running just fine now with over 285K miles on it.)
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After 8 years of blissful ownership of my '02 C4 cab, I am considering an upgrade to a 996TT. My concerns include higher maintenance costs, increased insurance rates and giving up my cab for a coupe (no 996TT cabs, correct?).
Any BTDT from this group before I start posting on the TT forum? I've come to respect many of the opinions from members here. Thanks in advance for any seasoned advice.
My insurance w/the 996 tt was cheaper than with a Carrera.
As for the question, you ought to drive one. I think they’re fantastic but there’s plenty a Carrera offers that a turbo does not. I don’t know that regular maintenance is that different (other than minor things like more frequent oil changes, and spark plugs, which also cost more to do), but drivetrain repairs certainly tend to cost more... And I’d say they’re not quite as reliable either, though not bad.
On the other hand, superior performance, better looks and still a very solid car. It will NOT feel as nimble as a Carrera though, but it does feel more special.
My advice is to think twice. While the 996 Turbo is in some ways a better car than your current car it may not be that much better than what you have. While 420 horses is impressive there is really no place, other than on a track, in the USA you can use this horsepower legally.
You have a probably well cared for 02 C4 Cab. It should continue to deliver excellent service for years to come. (My 02 Boxster is running just fine now with over 285K miles on it.)
A used car brings with it some questions, some unknowns. While with due diligence you can answer some questions, discover some of these unknowns, you will not know the car as good as you know the car you currently own.
The Turbo is expensive to service. While at the dealer I use for servicing both of my cars the labor rates are the same often things like plugs (for instance) take more time with the Turbo because the plugs are harder to get too. In fact just about everything on a Turbo is harder to get too, takes more time to do.
Sure, some owners can do some of the work themselves and this can lessen the sting of servicing costs. There are indy shops about too but the Turbo is a rather exotic car and not all Porsche indy shops are really qualified to service/work on these cars. While you can still of course use an indy shop you have to be sure it is one that you can really trust with the car.
Running costs can be higher with the Turbo vs. your current car. Given the same usage the Turbo's gas consumption will be higher. Granted not break the bank higher but to me there is just something about having to fill up the Turbo more often than once a week vs. the Boxster being able to go a week and cover more miles before it needs refueling that diminishes the Turbo in some way to me.
Tire life can be less though my experience what with making sure the alignment is correct and keeping a rein on my right foot Turbo tire life is about the same as it is with my Boxster. Turbo plugs need changing more often. There is a fuel filter to change. Brake life on my Turbo has been very good. Clutch life appears to be very good.
Out on the highway the Turbo is great to be sure, but around town it is a bit ponderous. But your current car is probably a good GT car and probably not quite as ponderous around town as the Turbo would prove to be. (The Turbo's front air dam is very close to the ground and I have to exercise caution every time I enter or leave a driveway to avoid tearing the thing off the car.)
You will lose some money on the C4, that is when you sell it or trade it in. My dealer sources tell me Cabs suffer the biggest depreciation hit. Then when you turn around and buy the Turbo unless you buy it for a very good price you will then experience depreciation, at least on paper.
As for buying it for a very good price, Turbo prices have notched up a bit. There is a growing demand for these cars. Low miles unmolested ones are scarce and can command a premium. But with low miles comes some risk of "new car" issues arising that of course would not be covered by the now expired new car warranty.
High miles unmodified cars are around but of course the miles scare off some buyers. There are a number of modified cars around but these can be tricky to evaluate. And with mod's comes the question as to how the car was used. No one mod's a Turbo to up the excitement level of grocery store runs.
My point is you need to think twice about a Turbo.
I notice that like me, you live at higher elevation. I happen to be in Indiana with my car as I write this and am reminded once again of how much power we really lose at the altitude in CO. While the car is no slouch at home, it really feels alive down here, the power increase is quite significant ad constantly noticable. I'm happy with my car but would also consider a TT in the future just to get the power back if for no other reason.
Didn't pay attention to where the OP was posting from, but living at a higher elevation does make a better case for a Turbo.
However, I note Louisville is around 5300 feet above sea level. That's not too high. Even going through Flagstaff at around 7700 feet above sea level my NA cars aren't affected to any noticeable degree. About the time I start to notice some impact is once when driving from Denver to Steamboat Springs. At 9K feet or so above sea level then the engine does suffer some. And it really suffers at 11K feet above sea level. In my '96 Mustang GT one drive on I-70 west of Denver the car felt so weak I thought I was going to have to get out and push.
Still, 5300 feet is 5300 feet and this does tip the scales towards a Turbo.
Altitude was certainly one of the factors that pushed me towards a turbo. My house is at about 7,200 feet and I routinely drive the car at more than 8,500 feet. The turbo really helps!
Great discussion points, Macster - thanks for sharing your experiences. I don't normally commute to the mountains in the Pcar as I have several Audi quattros to get me to Beaver Creek (S5, 2- S8's and a W12) and they all do great over the high mountain passes in inclement weather. The Pcar has become my commuter and fun weekend tourer and I haven't had it out on the track and currently no real plans to do so. I recently found myself in a position to do an "upgrade" but will now reconsider and invest in a few test drives. I just fear that once I feel the power of a tt it will be hard to drive my pedestrian C4. Truth be told, I can't even come close to exploring the limits of my current car on public roads anyway.
Dennis' recent upgrade really got me thinking about this, so it's all his fault!
I've been driving my 996TT cab for 10 years in CO...went from a 911SC cab and a 930...to the 996TT cab, a perfect combination IMHO. While hitting top end is impossible, having the turbos kick in during a simple pass on the highway is quite invigorating...I disagree with Macster regarding taking advantage of the HP....of course mine has had some modifications. Regarding maintenance, the turbo uses the Metzger engine...so no RMS issues...it has been called "bullet proof". Drive it and you'll be convinced.
I went from a Boxster to a turbo and love the extra room. I bought mine for the rear seats and power. The power is intoxicating coming from half the hp. You tap on the gas and you're easily going over 100. I do think it unnecessary, but nice to have. I'm not sure if i would have bought it had i owned a 996.
Its an old car so will need some maintenance parts and service. I got a great price on mine, but have spent a few bills refreshing the interior. You can easily work on the car, but its cramped and needs lots of disassembling.
Jim,
My first P car was a 2001 C2 cab, short stint with a 2004 GT3, now on a 2003 TT coupe.
It's been a blast to drive and an experience you should try as an enthusiast. I would recommend you find a well taken care of TT and think about your exit plan from the car if you plan on a future swap. Good luck!
nc911 - it looks like you have the RUF550 upgrade. This is one of the cars that really caught my attention and I thought would be a nice upgrade from my '02 C4. It seems like an awful lot of car for the money:
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...o-550-cab.html
You know I switch between my Turbo and my Boxster (2.7l) quite often. Yesterday for instance I was in the Boxster part of the day and in the Turbo for part of the day.
Of course, while the Boxster doesn't have the HP the Turbo has the Boxster is a very nice driving car. A big part of this is the Boxster engine is so tractable at low RPMs it is amazing. Part of this is due to the high (11.3:1) compression ratio. The Turbo's 9.4:1 pales in comparison. I actually have to keep the Turbo egnine's RPMs a bit higher than the Boxster engine's in similar circumstances. (Neither car gets "lugged", though, I assure you.)
Despite the HP difference, the Boxster doesn't feel like a slug. In fact in some ways it is a quicker feeling car in that the shifting is so much quicker. That 5-speed shifts very very quick compared to the Turbo's 6-speed. And the Turbo has the improved 997 shifter fitted, too.
The Boxster is more "nimble" in town. While the clutch in the Turbo is boosted and I can get the car moving without any drama, the Boxster clutch has a superb feel and I can get the Boxster moving away from a stop very quickly with little clutch slippage (the clutch is original and has 285K miles on it). The Turbo clutch is boosted and doesn't require much force but it is not quite as easy to get the Turbo moving from a stop. The difference is not day and night, more like day and late afternoon. Also the nimbleness comes from the Boxster's lighter steering but part is too the shifting speed and part is its lower weight. The Boxster is a quieter car, with a softer less jarring ride, too.
On the highway I've never felt the Boxster was underpowered. Sure it can require a downshift but the thing gains speed like a sun bound comet and it doesn't require any time before the car's velocity is in illegal territory. I have not spent any time in a 911 with a 3.6l NA engine but would think it would only be better than the Boxster in this reward and thus closer to the Turbo.
My point is that with a 996 and a 3.6l engine with its higher HP and torque numbers the step up to the Turbo is not nearly as much as it was going from my Boxster to the Turbo (by way of a 2008 Cayman S (3.4l) that unfortunately I only had for 4 weeks). BTW, the Boxster compared quite favorably to my 06 GTO with its 6.0l 400hp V8 and 6-speed. (The GTO I traded in for the Cayman.)
But experience the Turbo for yourself.
Arrange for a Turbo test drive. Be sure the drive is long enough you get to experience the car in a variety of situations similar to how you will use the car.
The turbo definitely feels bigger, heavier and more like a GT car than a lightweight, nimble sports car. my comparison is from 996 to 997 and from coupe to cabriolet. They feel very different. Only a proper test drive will tell you if its the right decision for you.
