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YOUR RESEARCHI want buttery smooth shifting
Leading reported evidence
Install ff bushing kit into my 99 c4
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A few weeks ago I installed the FF bushing kit into my 99 C4 .
Leading evidence: 'Install ff bushing kit into my 99 c4' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check shifter assembly/shifter cable adjustment' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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^^^ I installed the FF shift kit and weighted **** to my 996 C4 with 149k on the chassis .
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I have their kit installed on my shift lever and it's decent quality.
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Late update, but I removed the aftermarket short-shift kit and replaced with OEM 997.2 GT3 shifter.
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Suggestion
Also check the shifter assembly/shifter cable adjustment to be sure it�s optimal on your existing shifter.
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Suggestion
If the shifting is heavy with a 997.1/997.2 GT3 or 996 shifter, do an transmission oil change (I used Motul and it made a noticeable improvement to shifting when cold).
Replace i�d bleed the clutch slave/master cylinder
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Suggestion
Before pulling the transmission out to do a clutch change, I�d bleed the clutch slave/master cylinder to ensure the system has clean/fresh fluid and the master and slave cylinder are functioning as intended.
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The FF shift right, new cable end, and new OEM transmission mount plus a polyurethane insert did the trick.
Background: I have a full numeric racing shifter and cable setup, but I miss the smoother, buttery feel of the original cables.
I am looking around for new OEM shifter cables for my 996 but everywhere I look they�re around $500. Meanwhile 997 cables are in the $300s. Am I looking in the wrong place? I just want quieter, buttery cables.
Don�t get me wrong, the Numeric stuff is high quality but this is my daily so I�m considering running the stock cables with the numeric sculpture, I mean shifter.
Have you tried reducing the noise using Numeric's cable wrap? It wasn't enough for me -- I went back to stock cables -- but it does do the job for some folks.
Function First makes cable ends that are supposed to improve accuracy of the stock cables. Pricey but they do look good. I have their kit installed on my shift lever and it's decent quality.
https://www.function-first.com/produ...42746783957145
Just drove a 992 GTS last Friday on the track with a manual shifter. Interesting how short the throw was not to mention a notchy feel. Much different than our long throw manual on the 996 which in stock form is soft, quiet and smooth. Certainly not short, notchy and loud.
Dunno, but maybe new oem parts are the answer.
If you haven't adjusted the numeric to the highest throw position give that a go, for noise the insulation wrap does help but isn't perfect (I have the cables exposed on the interior which may add a bit more noise), most of the noise I get now is from vibration in the shift lever itself.
The shifter really is a big disappointment for these cars. Especially knowing they stickered for $80-90K. It gets the job done, but the feeling is less than satisfying. I have driven and owned many manual trans sports cars in my day, both of similar vintage and much older than the 996 (all considerably less money when new), and I honestly can't tell you there was one with worse shifter feel than the 996.
I will do something to my car to improve it, just haven't decided what route I will take.
@wdb
same, it was one of the first mods I did, my 97k mile car had the original stock shifter. I'm glad I did it, the fore and aft cable end, in the cabin, was completely chewed. The FF shift right, new cable end, and new OEM transmission mount plus a polyurethane insert did the trick. I let another 996 owner with a 997 shifter row through my gears and he said after he couldn't go back to his. So they have upgraded or are going to, with the same bits. I would not say my shifter feels like a rifle bolt, but getting to that extreme would be both expensive and likely would involve a more nvh which I'm trying to avoid.
Good feedback.
Big difference between "rifle bolt like and notchy" and "buttery smooth". Sounds like the Function First Shifter is a compromise between Numeric and Oem.
Function First shift lever kit takes all of the play out of the shifter assembly, and replaces the plastic pivots with metal. It adds precision. Doesn't do anything for throw besides take the slop out.
I put an Auto Solutions 'short' shift kit in my Z4MC. That car had no cables, just levers, pivots and bars. The kit did make the shifting action like a rifle bolt. It's one of the things I'll miss about the car.
When I think "buttery smooth" I think of Honda S2000. Honda makes good shifters in general but the S2000 is exceptional.
I hope I'm wrong about this but I doubt my targa will ever be anything like either of those. Long cable run, not particularly crisp action at the gearbox. I'm hoping that new engine/trans mounts improve the shifting to the point that it's decent. I can live with that.
Can you clarify, do you have the Numeric cables with the Porsche SSK or did you install the Numeric shifter?
I’ve also heard from many sources that the cables will introduce drivetrain noise into the cabin due to the design. I recall reading that adding grommets and or insulation in the firewall area helped some but I stopped researching the Numerics when Porsche came out with their updated cable.
A few weeks ago I installed the FF bushing kit into my 99 C4 . She has 150k on the chassis . The OEM plastic bushings had a lot of play in them . I would say it now shifts butter smooth like . You still have the mechanical feel of the cables and transmission but the shifter is no longer the issue .
I remember thinking during the test drive of my 996 that the shifting was reminiscent of my old �96 Corolla.
Definitely a disappointment compared to my 350Z and S2000.
A new 997 shifter was an improvement over the 23 year old unit.
Shorter throws and less slop.
Then several months later I installed the FF kit and removed even more play.
It�s still not an S2000 but it�s light years ahead of the Corolla now
Funny you mention the S2K and 350Z. Having driven both and owning the latter, the shifting experience between those are very different with my Z being my favorite. The S2K was perfect out of the box, my Z had a SS and a Hebi Bebi weighted ****.
I love the FF set up but think I can smooth it out with better shifter cable ends, FF offers them as well. You see that Rennline has their own SS? All metal internals too.
I already have the FF but wondered if it could be �better�. Just ordered the FF ends since this thread reminded me I wanted to do it� I�m a scatterbrain.
Thanks Joel, that�s much appreciated.
I couldn�t find the product on Rennline�s website, so I�m intrigued to know if they�re still actually producing it or whether they�ve ceased production of it. There appear to be several vendors here I the UK retailing the kit, though they may just have residual stock, which once they�ve sold, they won�t be re-stocking the product.
�but I miss the smoother, buttery feel of the original cables.�
It�s not the cables - it�s the big chunk of rubber in the shift **** that makes it �buttery�� or in reality �rubbery�.
Long-time lurker, First post....
For those with Numeric shifters / cables, Did you like the performance, but it was just too noisy ?
I'm trying to ease the effort into each gear (after the usual transmission warming). I have limited slop, just too much effort at the lever...
Numeric cables will not lower effort. They add a more direct feel, and noise! But they do not change the leverage.
You might have a short shift kit of some kind, some of which can make shifting a bit of an effort. Or you might have an issue in the gearbox, or you might have a clutch / pressure plate issue.
I'm curious if there is a concensus here as to best-practice set-ups? Cable-ends? Machined aluminum shift mechanism (vs plastic / delrin) ? Different cables? I'm assuming there is a myriad of opinions (like oil brand ?!?) Reducing throw is less important to me than lower-effort, accurate, clean shifts.
I'm planning some track days this fall and would love it sorted prior-to.
Establish what shifter you have before anything else. If you�re running a 30-35% reduction in throw EBay short shift kit, you�re most likely going to struggle with shift weight ...
If you want minimal shift weight I�d look to fit a 997.1 shift (-15% travel) with some upgrades from the usual suspects, or a 997.2 GT3/RS shifter.
If you want a
really
light shift action, stick with a stock 996 shifter and upgrade it with parts from the usual suspects.
Also check the shifter assembly/shifter cable adjustment to be sure it�s optimal on your existing shifter.
If the shifting is heavy with a 997.1/997.2 GT3 or 996 shifter, do an transmission oil change (I used Motul and it made a noticeable improvement to shifting when cold).
If the oil change doesn�t improve matters and the shift is still heavy, you�re looking at worn synchro hubs/baulk rings and/or a worn clutch.
Before pulling the transmission out to do a clutch change, I�d bleed the clutch slave/master cylinder to ensure the system has clean/fresh fluid and the master and slave cylinder are functioning as intended.
With that lot out of the equation, things start to get expensive ...
I HAVE changed Transmission fluid with limited to no improvement.
I'll dig in and see what short-shift kit is there to plan next move.
I would think cables are a 'wear-item'? Are folks replacing cables when replacing shifter ?
In comparing say 997.2 GT3 / RS shifter and a Numeric, isn't this like comparing street vs track suspension settings? Won't the all-aluminum Numeric mechanism have more precise feel, BUT transmit more noise and vibration than a OEM plastic mechanism? If the sound / vibration from the Numeric is 'tolerable', isn't a great solution? That said, I'm a fan of all-OEM, but better execution with the GT3 shifter.
I DO appreciate the chatter on this with all who have sorted this out. I'm thankful the 'search' trolls are on vacation this week...
I�ve gone through 3 or 4 different shifters (996, 997, B&M, metal inserts�) and finally landed on the Numeric. All the others were incrementally better than the last, but still leaving something to be desired. The Numeric is the best by far (on the middle setting) but it is indeed a bit �notchy�� and a bit noisy. Neither of these is a non starter for me. The thing I found that created the most NVH was the black FF transmission mount inserts - I changed to yellow and it made a huge difference. I also use an Aluminum FF shift ball in summer (nice weight) and a black delrin one in Winter (the Aluminum is too cold in winter).
I’m firmly with you in the prefer to use OE/stock AND stock looking (to the casual observer) camp.
I’ve driven this arrangement :
You Tube
And whilst Keen’s downshifts around the 50 seconds mark are brutal, that is exactly what a well set up OE
based
shifter assembly can provide.
The caveat being that Keen is using what would have been a Cup shift assembly, Cup cables, solid engine mounts and the R/RS/RSR transmission has shorter external shift control levers and the internals (synchro hubs, baulk rings etc) are stronger than those in our C2/4 ‘boxes.
But the point stands, the stock shifter, suitably upgraded is more than up to the task of providing a decent shift action.
They're wear items in Boxter/Cayman, where they have a significant bend and are known to break. I'm not aware of a cable breaking on a 911. Cable ends can wear, and I suppose the cable-to-housing fit could loosen and contribute to slop. 996 cable ends are replaceable by themselves at the shifter end; FF makes a kit intended to tighten things up at the transmission end.
I'd be amazed if they don't stretch with use over a 20 year period, and likewise with the inner sheath, I'd be surprised it that doesn't wear along its length too (both I'd imagine exacerbated by the use of a short shift kits), but I agree the 996 shift cable routing is far superior to that of the sub-optimal routing in the 987 Boxster/Caymans.
I would think any 'integrated' solution would have to be a superior? e.g. either OEM GT3 shifter and cables OR Numeric shifter and cables? vs some aftermarket short-shift kit, aged-cables, etc.
I wasn't suggesting it did, 'cos they're incredibly brutal
But the video effectively destroys the notion that you need to have many hundreds of $$$ invested in an aftermarket shift assembly to get fast, smooth, precise shifts. That's the same old FRP shifter "chassis" in Keens RSR that comes in every 996/997. The Cup shifter contains some nicely upgraded components (I have one here) but trust me it falls a long way short of the Function First upgrade kit.
I ran a stock 997.2 GT3/RS shift in my 997 Cup engined Mk1 996 GT3 road car, allied to a Cup cables, a 996 GT3 Cup/R/RS/RSR transmission and Wevo engine mounts, the shift was incredibly fast and rifle-bolt like, but also "buttery smooth".
The downsides were that the Cup cables and Wevo mounts transferred too much noise into the cabin for my liking. So Cup/upgraded cables are a no no for me. As are short shifts with throw reductions of above 20%.
For the reason stated above, I'm not convinced the Cup or upgraded cables are the way forward. Better to go new OE cables and use an upgraded 997 shift assembly using Phenix bushes (not a fan) or the Function First kit. I've not used a Numeric shift assembly, so I can't comment, but I know others who've installed them and either loved them or hated them ...
I dislike heavy, baulky or notchy shifters, as any modification to/replacement for the stock shifter that means the shifting process becomes anything less than intuitive is a massive fail (from my perspective)
Late update, but I removed the aftermarket short-shift kit and replaced with OEM 997.2 GT3 shifter. OK, a little longer throw, but shifts PERFECTLY. Feels OEM, as it should.
THANKS to all for the feedback and suggestions !
I guess different people look for different things, or maybe there is just a lot of variation between different 996's, but I like the shifting feel of the stock shifter in my 996.1 a lot. There is always going to be a bit of disconnect when a shifting rod is involved, versus front engine/transmission cars where the shifter is directly connected to the transmission, but think the stock 996 shifting is quite nice for normal street driving. Can't add much in terms of suggestions, but I agree with the OP's motives.
Thinking of doing the same. Main reason: I've driven short shift cars before, and was surprised how much I didn't like it. I'm mainly going for tighter feel (less loose from the plastic parts). Does the FF Shift Right kit get that done? Did you also get their ***** too?
^^^ I installed the FF shift kit and weighted **** to my 996 C4 with 149k on the chassis . The difference was night and day but the plastic bits looked to be original . My shifter movement is smooth and precise . The round shift **** to me just feels right . I recommend both and consider true upgrades over stock .
Just reinforcing what others have said. The Shift Right kit does one thing -- remove play from the shifter assembly. It does an excellent job of it. It does not change any lever lengths and so it does. not affect throw.
That still has the plastic side lever that the shifter arm will dig a hole in and cause slop. Half that price gets a Ben Auto Design shifter and aluminum side lever. The shifter rotation points have ball bearings in precision fit bushings.
Nice!!! Yes, the shift **** is often regarded as just an "aesthetic" upgrade...but think about it - that's the
one
component that you directly interact with when shifting the transmission. The OEM piece has a rubber core, so there's some tactility and directness lost when manipulating the gearbox through that. By stiffening up that component and adding some weight for added momentum, you get enhanced feedback with a "solid" feel. And from the aesthetic standpoint, I strive for an "OEM+" look so as to not have the central component in your cabin look out of place.
Thanks, guys! Yes, I have found that the key to improved shifter feel WHILE STILL preserving smoothness and "refinement" is...
1)
Remove ALL free-play in the mechanism.
This has
zero
value-add in the shifting experience, and only introduces ambiguity. The SHIFT-RIGHT Retrofit Kit by itself removes all play in 2 of the 3 rotating axes of the shifter unit; and the "Slightly" Short Shifter levers address the 3rd axis to eliminate ALL remaining play within the shifter mechanism. Large ball bearings ensure smoothness and longevity.
2)
Don't go too short with the throw.
As many in this thread have previously stated, too short of a shifter throw will reduce shifter action momentum, increase the effort required, and will exacerbate any rough feel in the transmission (like synchro engagement). Optimal shifter throw is subjective...but remember that it's a balancing act between your desired feel and required effort to push past the synchros. And you
can't
(or, shouldn't!) shift any faster than your synchros will allow.
3)
Retain
some
dampening (i.e. "flex") in the system.
Going too stiff with the shifter has the downside of transferring EVERYTHING to your hand, which includes unwanted and sudden rises in shifting resistance (i.e. notchiness). That said, you don't want to go TOO soft, as that results in spongy and imprecise shifter feel. In the case of the OEM shifter bushings comprised of rubber and plastic - those present TOO much flex for consistent and repeatable results in shifter action (not to mention free play) - so it's important to eliminate that weak point in the mechanism. And to retain the right level dampening characteristics to mitigate notchiness, the OEM plastic shifter cradle actually does a pretty good job of attenuating out some of this unwanted feel to isolate your shifting hand from these sudden increases in resistance, which delivers a more "natural" shifter action where you don't feel like you're constantly fighting the transmission.
- perhaps, but I've enjoyed smooth shifting for 10 years now
paired with a weighted shift ****
if it goes sideways, I'd replace it with that the exact same part
.........I got that kinda cash
Has anyone tried these cables? I am highly interested as it seems like a great compromise. I do not want the mechanical and notchy feeling of the Numeric, but want stronger and more precision than OEM. Definitely still want the smoothness of OEM as well.
My concern with these would be the lack of time in the field and lack of reviews. Seems they have been out for less than a year and I can't find any reviews or feedback so have no idea how they actually perform.
Seems FF is a reputable company, however they do not even have a customer service phone number to contact for questions / issues. Seems like Numeric has great customer service which is very important to me. What if something goes wrong or I have questions about install?? Send email and wait 2-4 business days is not acceptable. And I would love to speak to them in more details about these cables before purchasing.
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