Traded my '96 993 Cab for a '02 996 (Sunroofs- to have or have not)

Will be joining these threads soon. Ordered my 2002 996 today (January delivery). Ordered the following options (did I leave anything out?) -Guards red w/savanna beige leather -18" Sport Wheel -sport/M030 package -advanced technic package -rear window wiper -spoke sport steering wheel - Standard equip BOSE premium sound - included in technic package -chrome exhaust tips -delete rear window wiper -delete sunroof -colored wheelcaps -PSM -Advanced Design pack -Self Dimming mirrors and rain sensor pack -heated sport seats -Sport seats rear painted to match exterior color (Guards Red) -Seat Belts in Guards Red -Center console painted ext. body color

I don't know what's in the Technic package but if it doesn't include the Litronic lights you will probably want to add them (unless they are now standard?). I am partial to the aerokit (have it on my 99) but it's a personal choice kind of thing. Karl

Xenon headlights are standard on all 996 cars for 2002. However, you can get the Bi-Xenon version as found on the Turbo by ordering the Advanced Technic package. P04 - Advanced Technic Package: Headlight Washers, BOSE Sound System, Bi-Xenon Headlights & 6-CD Changer - $3240.

Pat, I'm almost in the same situation as you except I'm more frugal and looking at heavily discounted new 2001 leftovers. Do you mind sharing what the dealer offered you for your '96 993 Cab as a trade-in? My possible trade-in is a '96 993 C2. How much below KBB trade-in value? Thanks.

Congrats - sounds like a beautiful car. Aluminum/carbon shifter and hand brake is a nice touch (IMO), if its not standard on the MY '02, and you could consider aluminum dials (I dont have the colored dials on my car, but they look nice). Also, you might consider power seats with memory. I did not, and regret it because I'm generous with allowing friends to test drive the car, then struggle to get my seat/back position to its "ideal" position. A dealer installed, or after market, in dash radar detector is a good idea as well (k40 and passport both make indash detectors now, and a valentine can also be hardwired into the car).

No I don't mind at all John- -2002 Porsche 996 coupe, Base MSRP $67,900.00 + $765.00 destination charge -Guards red w/savanna beige leather - no extra charge -18" Sport Wheel $2,790.00 -sport/M030 package $690.00 -heated sport seats $1,170.00 -center console painted ext. body color $725.00 -advanced technic package $3,240.00 -colored crest wheel caps $175.00 -rear window wiper $340.00 -3-spoke sport steering wheel - Standard equip BOSE premium sound - included in technic package -chrome exhaust tips - awaiting prining available yet Total at $77,795.00 I got this deal from Brian Buxton which I think is fair considering that Sunset Motors here in Portland offered the similar deal an lots of negatives like: -Would not really give me the time of day when I walked in- I had to practically beg to see a salesperson (probably becuase I was not buying and Audi). They really did not seem interested in accomodating me as a Porsche customer. -If they would not let me drive a 2002 Porsche then it made no sense for me to do business with them. I can buy it anywhere. For that matter, why even waste time going to a show room to see the car. -Delivery- 6-10 months if I did not buy one they already had coming in or on their showroom floor, which was only ONE (1) Black Cabriolet. When I finally got a salesperson to respond to me I guess he was not listening because I clearly said I don't like the cleaining maintenance on black cars and I certainly did not want another Cabriolet. Brian Buxton has been very good to me and persisant in getting me what I want. For $80,000 worth of car (especially in today's economy) you would think Porsche dealers would at least have coffee donuts and a free magic show in the showroom (like salepeople that actually want to consult to your needs and offer a high priced performance automobile). Don't get me wrong, I am not bich'n either but, something is wrong when you get treated like a second class citizen when you walk into a Porsche dealer. This is especially true when you drive up in a fairly recent model Porsche and all the Audi customers who drove up in Totota Camry's are treated as if they are going to purchase the $80,000 car and you are going to purchase a $1 hunk of junk. SAD, SAD state of affairs in the Porsche dealer showrooms these days. Very Sad.

Wow, I guess they make more money slamming customers into Audi's they cannot afford with ridiculous lease payments. They probably figure there are too many exotic used car dealerhips that can do the same with the high end Porsche's for them to make any money doing it from a new car dealership. In any case, congrats on the new purchase but when are you comin back to 928's? K

Kaz the 928 will always be my passion and I am continually trading up on 911's to keep my resale value on the car high when Porsche releases that 2004 928- I will be ready! I am planning the possible purchase of a 928GT very soon if I can find a decent one for a fair price.

I'm not completely familiar with the options for the 02 cars - but I assume this is a C2, and PSM has not been standard equipment on the C2. If this is still true, I highly recommend this option. By chrome exhaust tips, I assume you mean the stainless steel tips? IMHO they look much better than the standard tips. Did you consider the sport exhaust (which may be a dealer installed option only )? Finally, do you think the rear wiper is worthwhile? I have one on my turbo (std equipment) but have no use for it. Don't mean to sound nit picky - I believe your car is very well optioned, and will look great. Painted consol is a very attractive touch, by my taste.

I was just thinking that I may not want that rear wiper afterall. You are right about the PSM option. I will make that change tomorrow while I can although I beleive it was called into PCNA today. Yes your are correct the Chrome tips are the Stainless Steel tips. Thanks for the PSM advice. Thats was really a good one.

Very interesting ... I had the exact same experience with Sunset. I went to see them about buying a NEW 996 cab or 996 cab 4. I visited a couple of times in my '99 355 F1 GTS and had the same treatment that you did - complete disinterest. I don't expect movie star treatment when I visit a car dealer but I do expect to be treated courteously and with interest when I come looking for a $80-$100k car. They didn't get my business and someone else did. Enough said. In the end I decided that I would NEVER buy a car from these people which has been reinforced by their service attitude to my current 996 cab that needed to be 'reset' after receiving engine & tip mod's by RennSport here in Portland. They completely jerked us around on this score too. Brian Buxton has a good reputation over on the Ferrari boards ... I'm sure you'll get the level of service that you're looking for. As regards Sunset ... I would never recommend that anyone go there to purchase a Porsche. Personally, I'd rather drive to Seattle or Bend to work with a dealer that could be bothered to serve the customer. I'm not bitter, just very, very disappointed. You'd think that the local Ferrari dealer (Tonkin Gran Tourismo) would be the one's with an attitude but actually I've always found them to be extremely accomodating. Sunset were just rude and discourteous. Graham

OH GRAHAM, DUDE you are SO RIGHT! Sunset is the pits. I visited AFN Chiswick Porsche in London several months ago and that was a great Porsche dealership. Very accomodating and although I was not there to buy a car (only needed to purchase parts) it as though seemed they would have helped me "take over the world" if I had only asked! Now thats service with a smile. The guys over at Ron Tonkin Gran Turismo are the absolute best here in Portland. HANDS DOWN!!! Greg and Matt- " You say you wanna drive this Ferrari? Sure we can move around the show room floor for ya NOT A PROBLEM! Have some coffee and check out our collection of cars out back while we move things around a bit." I don't mind paying those guys a premium price over there. They have been good to me for as far back as I can remember. They tossed me the keys to my 993 Cabriolet to drive around for a few hours and sold it to me later that afternoon. Look, I am not a snob or unreasonable azz-hole. I am just a ordinary guy that can afford to drive something that costs a bit more than a Saturn. However, there is absolutely no reson why I should be made to feel as though I should only expect used Chevrolet Impala $12,000 attention at my local Porsche dealer because I am not buying a $40,000 Audi. That really sux !

OH I forgot to mention Brian Buxton...He's the man ! He can count on my business going forward for just about anything.

OH forgot...No sunroof, thats an option too on the coupe $700.00 big coins!

I just received my C4 cab yesterday, and i ordered the seast with the embossed Porsche logo.Looks very classy, can definetly recommend that as an option. Also if you are using your telephone in the car often you could consider the navigationsystem which features a radio and telephone.looks very good as well, and in a lot of countries it is or will be shortly illegal to use your portable without handsfreekit.good luck. PS the car is a dream to drive

PRDATR, Interesting comments you made in regards to AFN. In the UK they are offcourse Porsche GB and have several outlets selling Audi and Lambo. Anyway, my experience with AFN is that they offer 1st class service every time. I bought my Boxster from them in 1998 and was always pleased with the level of service from all personals in sales, parts or service. I have dealt with the Chiswick, Park Lane and Guildford branches and they are all very good. I call that good business management � don�t bite off the hand that feeds you! When purchasing my current car, a 996 C2 cab, I made the mistake of purchasing from an OPC but not AFN. Well, the car has had numerous problems that the dealer just reacted too slowly to fix and in the end I went back to AFN for the faults to be put right although I purchased the car from a competitor. That cost me a little fortune as the car was out of warranty and the dealer I purchased from � although they were happy to fix faults FOC � they played a game of keeping the car off the road for as long as possible in the hope that I would get fed-up and �go away�. Dare I say it, to date service has been 1st class as always from AFN. As for the dealer whom I purchased the car from, I sure hope Porsche put in place some kind of league system where dealers who are just not presenting the brand in its best lights should be struck off! It only makes sense. If I owned a car dealership and found any of my staff just did not uphold the high level of service customers rightly deserve, I would re-train the staff in question for my business sake. I do think us purchasers can help OPCs who fall below the mark by driving back there after making our purchase from a competitor, ask to speak to the boss of the dealership and pointing out to him why he lost your current and possibly all future business or recommendations to others. I bet he or she would be fuming! May cause him or her to put things right for the next would be purchaser.

I have a GR/SB cab (black top) but one thing I did you might consider is black mats. When I did mine, the black mats came with red Porsche lettering - a nice touch. In addition, it breaks up the sea of beige inside the car. Easy to take care of, shows little if any dirt (where the Savanna mats will show wear and dirt easily) and simple option. Just a thought. Sounds like a beauty. Eric's Pic Site

FYI - a sunroof on a 2002 coupe is standard equipment. Deleting the sunroof is a no cost option. I hated the sunroof in my earlier 911's because of the drumming with the windoes up, but they seem to have solved that problem now. My car was ordered pretty much the same. I ordered the Porsche crests embossed into the headrests of the seats. Quite subtle - $215. One item I was they would unbundle from the Technic packages is the headlight washers. I never have used them on my previous Porsches and it seems like a waste to put them on the car at all. When the headlights get that dirty, I wash the whole car!

In Oct. I traded in my '99 996 C2 cab for an '02. I definitely recommend getting the memory seats which can now be programmed to the individual ignition keys especially if 2 people regularly drive the car. The mirrors, seat postitions and lumbar support all adjust upon using the key to unlock the car. Also, the advanced Technic Package is much better than the standard Technic Package becuase of the bi-xenon lights and the upgraded stereo.

HUH???? This was definately NOT a "NO COST" for me. In fact, Porsche wanted a $5000 deposit to build my 996 without the sunroof since all 2002 coupes come with a sunroof and it would require pulling my car off the assemblyline atleast at two points to build it and the new headliner. Where does it state that no sunroof is a "no cost option"?

I envy you! I had to go all the way to London, England in a taxi to get quality service from a Porsche dealer- and I only purchased parts. I went 15 miles to my local Porsche dealer in a Porsche and got treated like a "unwanted unruly stepchild"!

Pat, you can look for yourself right here on Rennlist. http://www.rennlist.org/gt3/guides/8_10/2002C2coupe.pdf page 11, code 652 I had to pay a larger deposit when ordering an Audi without a sunroof because the dealer wanted to make sure I took the car.

Roger my friend, trust me...this is "NOT" a NO COST option. Note the "*Prices are subject to change" disclaimer at the bottom of the price sheet (which incidently is the same that I have). As I understand it- Porsche offers the No Sunroof option but pricing is ICB (individual case basis) on the 996 Coupe and they want a $5000 deposit ! Trust me... try and order a coupe without one, as I did- just make sure you are sitting down and try not to soil your pants!

I had a very good expierience almost buying a A4 1.8T from Sunset. I am sorry you did not have the same good service. I don't see why they would treat their Porsche customers any worse than their Audi customers. I am especially confused since they are in the process of building a second showroom just for Porsche. With that said, I like Audis and disagee that they are $1 pieces of junk.

Tabor, you solidify my point exactly! If you go into Sunset to purchase an Audi you will get STAR treatment (this is especially true if you drive up in anything except a Porsche). I drove up in a Porsche to buy another Porsche and was treated like CRAP! I had to literally beg for the attention of a sales rep and when I was given a bit of attentention between Audi customers I was hurreid off and told my 996 could not be built and delivered before November 2002!!! I replied to the sales manager that I might as well order a 2003 and he said- "oh well, we can take your preorder now." I was very disapppointed. They also tried multiple times to sell me a 2002 Black Cabriolet that I very clearly stated I did not want. They then hurried me off with a scrap of paper and the promise of a phone call, that I never got! I then contacted Brian Buxston and as usual got prompt attention, service, and a order to deliver my car in January. No fuss, no muss, no Toyota Camry's or Chebby's, to compete with for a sales persons attention. By the way- "who said Audi's are $1 hunk of junk"? I think you may have misread my post.

Then never mind. I misread it. Congradulations on your new purchase. I hope you enjoy it. What I find extreamly perplexing is that Sunset is building a Porsche only showroom.

Tabor, Sunset has been pressured by PCNA to separate the Porsche dealership from the Audi for sometime. Additionally, from what I understand they (Sunset ) are reluctantly building it and were at risk of losing Porsche here in Portland if they did not. Believe me they are not doing it because want to- THEY ARE BEING FORCED TO DO IT!

Like you, I recently ordered an '02 coupe. According to the Porsche order guide, the Technic Package (as well as the Advanced Technic Package) also has the bi-xenon lights. As far as I can see, the only difference between the two packages is the stereo system, which in the 'Advanced' package gives you the Bose speaker package and the 6 disc changer. Also, the deposit you are paying before they build your car does not increase the end cost to you for the car. It only protects the dealer if you decide NOT to take the car, because the average customer wants the sunroof and your car would be more difficult to sell to someone else if you didn't take it. Congrats and good luck!

Thanks Tim, that makes more sense and it seems more inline with the way Brian Buxton may have explained it to me. However, I would suspect that it would be easier to sell a coupe without the sunroof. They are: a. A pain in the azz when trying to wear a helmet in the car at the track (they rob you of about 1.5 inches, that can be a real issue if you stand taller the 5'10" ) b. Wind Noise when closed is higher c. Still prone to leak after years of exposure to the elements (regardless of what they say about how much better it is made in any year). d. Finally, how often do you really use a sunroof? Most people have them and open it one or twice on summer days when the car is new and rarely open it again after the novelty wears off. Besides doesn't not having a sunroof make the body more rigid and save weight, while add some rarity to the car for those that may want one in the future without a sunroof. I know that there were only a few 928' after 1981 made without sunroofs and they much more sought after than those with the sunroof.

Wind noise - I'm not sure that's true. Perhaps you've had bad experiences in the past?? Prone to leak - I've NEVER had a leaky sunroof in any car with a vintage of the 1980's onwards. Maybe a cheap retro sunroof would do this ... How much so you use a sunroof - your description of sunroof usage is probably accurate for someone who doesn't want a sunroof, but I don't think it's accurate for the rest of us. I use the sunroof in my X5 all the time, but then I'm a cab guy ... Rigidity - I don't think it's necessarily true that a sunroof reduces rigidity of the car/roof. It kind of depends - there are plenty of situations where the extra bracing of a well designed sunroof would add to, rahter than subtract from the rigidity of the car. I guess my point is that if you are an open-top type of person then a sunroof is the best compromise you are giing to get with a Coupe (in the absence of a Targa). If you are a coupe type of guy, then you probably wouldn't see the point or need for a sunroof. Graham

A note on ridgidity- Most cars with sunroofs are less ridgid than their non-sunroof counterparts. However, there are exceptions. One such exception is the Porsche 944, however it is still heavier.

I was just surfing thru this thread and notice you ordered the best option you possibly could BRIAN BUXTON (sorry for the caps). I ordered my 02 996 C4 Cab TipS thru him and he is better than any dealer I've ever dealt with. One thing to double check. When my 02 was built they did not have a supplier to paint seatbacks body color. I did get the console painted body color (Arctic Silver)but cancelled the seatback paint order rather than delay delivery. Getting back to Brian...this guy is GOOD (sorry again), and he's backed up by a agood dealer network.

Graham my friend, I have had the opposite experience- I have NEVER owned a car that had a sunroof that did not leak (this is especially true of any Porsche I have owned. Every one of them have leaked after a few years). I understand that the Targa tops are absolutely crimminal leakers and especially in the most recent years. As for the wind noise, yes, sunroofs have a tendency to amplify "drumming or low frequency drone" noise at speeds higher than 30mph. This noise difference can be easily measured with a $20.00 Db meter purchased from any radio shack. Have you ever wondered why you never close your sunroof while doing more than 30MPH in your Porsche? The low pressure sucking away on that roof could severly damage it. It's that continuous low pressure that is trying to suck the top out of the car that makes the drumming noise. God forbid you close the top at freeway speeds and it does not seal properly (in fact,if that is done enough times it is a certainty the sunroof will have leaking written into its future) and then you get that small leak in the seal which then makes that annoying "low pressure air whistle". I live with those noises in my Cab all the time and they drive me nuts (No more cabriolets for papa-san). As for rigidity of the car, I believe that too is impacted by the sunroof. Perhaps, not to the extent as a targa or Cabriolet but it should be affected to some degree albiet maybe a minor one.

YOU'VE GOT THAT RIGHT!