Very Black Oil

I�ve searched but haven�t found an answer. I changed my oil and filter and noticed that the oil was very black with just about 5,000 miles on the oil. I also found that the spring in the oil canisters was not attached and fell out when I was draining the canister. Could this spring being detached have caused the oil to get so black or could this be a sign of an intermix issue?

What mileage you on...

If it was an intermix it wouldn't be black. I wouldn't worry about it until your next oil change and see what it looks like then. When the oil turns dark then it's doing it's job. Very black could be associated with the filter issue you had this time around.

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Have you also noticed it get darker (Assuming it started off amber colour) Does it have a history of this? Has anything changed in the way you drive?

Oils are formulated with different solvents to keep the engine clean. It's very common if someone has been using the same brand of oil for a long time and then they switch to a different brand for the new oil to become black very quickly . This is because the new oil has a different anti deposit mix and will pick up sludge that was insouluable in the previous oil . If this happens just shorten the milage before your next oil and filter change . 5000 miles is pretty much due for a change anyway. In the old days it was often reccomended to stick with the same brand because changing brands could cause oil leaks as the new brands detergents could unstick the particles that had settled in the seals . Not such an issue with modern seal compounds. Fwiw , I use different brands all the time , whatever a40 premium synthetic is on sale , I change my oil twice a year . My car gets about 6000km per year of use . I use 5w40 for the winter and 5w50 for the summer , changing the oil in March and October . That's pretty frequent but I do it myself , I buy my oil on sale and my filters by the carton. Cheap insurance .

This is not a question of oil, type, weight, whatever. The spring failed in the cartridge canister and your were circulating unfiltered oil. The spring was not holding the filter cartridge in place. Oil becomes darker with use naturally. Change the oil, update with a LN filter adapter (get the magnetic drain plug while you are at it) and monitor. Might want to schedule a secondary oil change after 1,500-2,000 miles. At the very least buy a new canister and cartridge filter. BTW, IMO 5,000 miles on an oil change is way too long for these engines.

I agree with the above posted comments... the blown spring caused you to circulate some unfiltered oil... blah... blah... blah. Just change the filter a few times and see what happens. The filter it self is cheap... $8-$12, just buy a few and change out the filter and top off in like 200-500 miles once or twice and see what you find. The oil types and the additive DO make a big difference... but that is not your current issues. You need to get the dirty deposits out of the motor and see whats going on in there. Do not send it out for an Oil Analysis right now, all it will find currently is really dirty oil... If you want to do an OA wait till you get a good sample down the road.

Do you have some pics of the broken spring/valve by any chance?

No, I didn’t think of taking a picture at the time.

Thanks for the quick reply. I’ve been thinking of getting LN oil filter adaptor so I think this is a good opportunity to do so as well as a magnetic oil drain plug. This is my 2nd engine with about 85k miles on it. I general change the oil at 3k. I haven’t tracked the car lately but I do drive it spiritedly.

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The reason I asked is I would think the valve (small round disc the size of a nickel) should attach to the spring. Did you recover the valve together with the spring? Would not be good if that valve was sucked into the engine.

"Oils are formulated with different detergents.." But the M96 is prone to creating foam with high detergent oil . So be careful to avoid high detergent oils. Excessive foaming will cause oil starvation. Best is to just change the replacement oil very frequently for the next few months. You can buy the Napa Gold filters for the LN adapter by the case :-) There are lots of places inside the M96 for oil to 'puddle' so don't be alarmed if the replacement oil discolors quickly. Your IMSB will appreciate... If the bores are ovalised, a compression check may give and indication of this issue.That would allow blow-by and discolor the oil quickly.

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The spring valve assembly detached from the canister but and fell out when I turned it over to drain.

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Sounds like no parts are unaccounted for so you're probably ok.

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Interesting observation/comment. Then it would make sense to change brands of oil, correct? If a particular oil isn't cleaning well over time, change to a different one and clean up your engine?

I just bought a new plastic cover and filter. I paid around $22 for genuine Porsche parts. The cover comes with the filter At that price, its worth replacing every few oil changes

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Unless you are using diesel oil , all multi grade oil has detergents in it , anything with an Api grade later than sg has low foaming detergents ( usually refered to as anti deposit packages a mix of solvents and suffactents ) Given that the standard current grade is SN , your comments are very out of date . As long as the oil meets the oeM a40 spec requierments it's fine and foaming isn't an issue in a street used car

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Modern oils have great anti deposit packages , I would reccomend you just stick with frequent changes , sticking with the same brand is fine , as long as it's good quality . I just look for synthetic oil that meets Api SN /a40

Black Oil lives matter.

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Please let Lake Speed and Raby know your insights. You may find they disagree with you. If you have followed the discussion, use of 'diesel' rated engine oil was covered. This may be of interest? I am not a tribologist. http://lnengineering.com/resources/2...gf-6-standard/

I'm a mechanical engineer , maximizing machine life of heavy service motors and even jet & turboprop engines is part of my background . With oil , frequent changes and meeting the manufacturers performance requierments are the critical elements . Detergents isn't the best descriptor for synthetic oil additives it's a holdover from Dino oils , modern oils use a blend of solvents and suffactents and anti foam agents to dissolve deposits and keep them in suspension for the filter to pick up. Racing oils for street cars are not neccisarrily the best match as many racing oils are designed to be changed with every race and may not be formulated to last that long ( minimal anti corrosives anti wear & deposit packages ) forming acids in the presence of O2 and h2o , where as a premium synthetic , Api SN / a40 synthetic oil that meets the oem porsche spec and is changed frequently will offer good protection . A racing oil is great for extream duty short duration use , but not the best for street use under wide temperature and weather conditions and 5000 mile life . I've done oil studies on heavy equipment used in the Australian Desert and The Canadian Arctic . Viscosity , service life , temperature , moisture , anti deposit and anti corrosion packages were all looked at . As one of the clients was a major oil producer the study was jointly conducted with their petroleum engineers . Bottom line , I buy a good quality sn / a40 synthetic on sale , and change it and the filter every 6 months or 3000 miles which ever comes first . I like shell made oils (penrite, shell,qs, penzoil ) or mobil on the a40 list. https://www.porscheclubgb.com/PCGB/m...0.pdf?ext=.pdf And I don't see changing that practice, it's one I'd reccomend to anyone . GL-5 is the same as sn , it's just not an api standard , it's another agency

If Rennlisters read what Jake and Lake Speed Jr. write ,specifically about the M96, they will realize the M96 has some unique issues with lubrication. Further ,the API ratings do not help much in addressing these unusual combination of problems. One of the problems is foaming, another is bore scoring,then there is an abnormal need for high shear and thermal stability. I'm impressed with the anecdotes from heavy machinery in the Outback of Australia but the microcosm we're discussing(M96) is both very different and unique.Unlikely a volume oil blender would bother making a formulation just for the M96. This link may help explain some of the difference? http://www.peachstatepca.org/Articles/Article/5365 http://www.powerperformancenews.com/...lake-speed-jr/ http://www.drivenracingoil.com/

It is not normal for gasoline powered engine oil to be black. Mine was nice and clear all the time. Even my diesel engines, past and present have nice clean oil. You have a problem bro.

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ANY oil driven for only 200 miles is gonna be nice and clear.

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My point was I've done a lot of oil anaysis and extream use machine wear studies , in motors that run 24/7 or in aviation use. If it makes you feel better to spend 200 bucks on your oil , go for it , I'm sure it's a good product and I wouldn't discourage it's use . If you are changing your oil at half the oem scheduled time & milage , xp9 is probably overkill unless its a dedicated track car . But for the other 99.5 percent , a premium synthetic that meets porsche's current spec changed often is fine . Changing often is important , in use oils form acids from moisture , oxygen and combustion product exposure , these acids are hard on components and reduce an oils ability to withstand heat and lubricate . Xp9 isn't going to perform better with 5000 miles on it than mobil 1 with 1/3 of that .

Lake Speed is no joke! I was at a seminar that he was speaking at this Sunday and he is crazy informative and super knowledgeable on the subject of "oil" especially in the m96 platform. If you must you can just use good oil and filters and change them out frequently "OR" you can use something better and also formulated for this particular engine. Your car... Your call... Let's stop the bickering and get back to on point... Let use know what the oil looks like when you next change it and walk us through your plan on keeping an eye on your motor.

Didn't see it as bickering , just sharing knowledge , isn't that what forums are for? Debate and knowledge sharing ? How many mechanical engineers with a background in internal combustion and turbines maintainence belong here? In the ops case , doing an oil and filter change , driving 500 miles and doing another one and returning to a good rotation schedule (< 5000 miles) will in all likelihood sort it . If it doesn't , send the second oil in for analysis . Probably not a bad idea to change the air filter and spark plugs with that first oil change too. Check your exhaust O2 sensors and leads . A compression test too if the second oil change goes black quickly will help diagnosis at that stage

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Get your hand off it mate .

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I agree with you Joe. The M96 has specific lubrication needs."One size oil fits all" seems untrue for the M96 based on the work of Lake Speed Jr. & Jake Raby. If our friend in Vancouver knows more than Lake & Jake on the specific issue of M96 lubrication, I am all ears - because I am not a Tribologist but I am a Mech. Eng. and know the difference disqualifies me from giving a 'professional' opinion on M96 lubrication. That is why I quote experts like Lake & Jake. Contrary to what some may expect ,it may be a good idea to flush(but not run much) with a high-detergent oil to purge the black dirt ? Now that really is a question for Lake Speed ! In the Shop we use BG Engine clean on long neglected engines but never on a Porsche - yet. http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...&Number=780773

Waiting for KK to jump in AGAIN...

So, what exactly is that 'black stuff'? Suggestions? It starts with an S and has 6 letters. S_ _ _ _ _. Do we even know what oil the OP has been using? And I would consider Mobil eins, ohhh-forty as high detergent oil to boot. Last I checked the API SG ended its glorious life in about '93. No? Racing oil description applies to just about everything and anything including snake oils. Those who know me, know that I love racing oils. I'm yet to see a Diesel engine with clean oil after a decent mileage. Please email me your pics at the earliest. And I am a mechie too. With some lube inclinations. Sayonara. =L=

Lots of the "black stuff" is combustion byproducts that are sneaking past the rings/ cylinders, because Lokasil cylinders do a poor job of ring seal. It also gets blown by the valve stems as the valve guides wear. Other contributing factors are heavy fuel enrichment when the engine is cold, to help light the cats off as quickly as possible. The list goes on.

Here is an interesting read on "Synthetic" oils: https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-02/...ates-motor-oil

When I have 500 miles on the oil I will change it and install the LN oil adaptor and have the oil tested. I have already installed new plugs but I’m thinking it’s time for some other preventive maintenance such as water pump and thermostat. Any other suggestions will be welcomed.

This will answer most of your questions: http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...bkdemp_pg2.htm

Thanks for the suggestion. I have that book and I’m thinking of getting the Bentley manual as well.

I’ve read that there are some that question the wisdom of switching to the LN spin on adaptor. Is there any new information on the subject? I have no idea how the bypass valve on the canister became detached and how common it is but if I was to use a spin on filter with a built-in bypass this wouldn’t happen again.

If you have a link to a post by an LN Filter skeptic, we may be able to answer the objections ? Admittedly I am biased because I have the LN parts fitted to my car but I am all ears if anyone has valid technical objections to it .

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https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ief-valve.html

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Im not sure where are you going with this. The spin on eliminates bypass valve c/w full flow Napa Corvette filter. There is nothing wrong with bypass valve (i.e. OEM canister) - IF you change your oil frequently and use QUALITY oil. Which way would you like to go? Is it really that hard to decide? Can't go wrong with a new water pump and LTT. highly recommended. Cheers, =L=

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Very black is relative. I've drained oil from a number of engines and thought the oil was black but until I changed the oil in my diesel VW I had never seen black oil before. And the diesel engine oil gets black in no time. I could change the oil and filter and start the engine and and let it run a while then shut the engine off and wait and then check the level with a dipstick and the oil on the dipstick tip was black. Undoubtedly this was mainly the fresh/new oil mixing with the bit of oil that remained in the engine. With my Porsches with 5K mile oil changes sometimes the oil is pretty dark and at other times the oil is translucent, not a lot but I can see some light shining through the stream of oil. In the former case this black condition is typical of an oil change after 5K miles of my work commute and errand running. In the latter case it was after nearly 5K miles of highway driving over the span of a week or two. These approved oils -- in fact most modern oils -- are all high detergent and this works to keep solids -- mainly soot -- in suspension so a dark colored oil is a good thing. It is a sign the solids are in suspension and being carried out with the old oil. As long as the engine is running ok, with no CEL, and gas mileage remains stable and reasonable what you saw was just the result of the oil and the usage.

Mac, this is true of any diesel engine with an egr. That's why many choose to delete them on some diesels.

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The VW engine had EGR which I'm sure contributed something to the oil's blackness but primarily diesel engines darken the oil from the blow-by. The high compression characteristic of a diesel engine -- and in the case of my VW a turbo-charged one at that -- results in no little blow by and there is a goodly amount of soot in this.