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YOUR RESEARCHHow many miles/km can these engines last?
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trying
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It's great engineering to see the swap but the problem is trying to figure out where to put the huge batteries.
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We live in an interesting time very similar to the turn of the century (1900) with all of the technological innovation that occurred and forever changed the economy and society.
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Have 57k miles on it and have changed the oil on average every 500-600 miles.
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Porsche ran their first season in the PorscheCup series using it.
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We live in an interesting time very similar to the turn of the century (1900) with all of the technological innovation that occurred and forever changed the economy and society.
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And an EV can't replace my jeep which is used as a jeep: hauls boats, travels to rural locations for a number of different activities like fishing, hunting, ATVing etc.
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Hi, I'm looking to buy a 996 (year 97-99 w/double bearing IMS). I wish to know what is the expected lifespan/mileage of these engines and boxes, and what goes wrong when they die, is a rebuild feasible etc.
About me: very happy owner of a -97 camry and 1.6 TD Vanagon (engine rebuilt by me), drove a twinturbo A8 until the tranny died at 130K miles and scrapped it as the camshafts were worn down too, this time instead I'll buy a car with a well engineered engine & transmission.
If you spend more than 5 minutes on this forum you'll learn quickly that they are all time bombs and a proper PPI cost about $2500
so ignore this forum, do some due diligence and use your common sense. Regular maintenance and it should last several tens of miles before the inevitable $35,000 rebuild that can never be verified or confirmed
The problem you will have with with these cars is not their fragility and 100% failure rate. Rather it's that only one person is capable of fixing them. It's the real supply chain crisis.
OP - All joking aside here�s your simple answer: High performance engine with tight tolerances and poor engine lubrication due to Porsche cost cutting. Some other mechanical issues have historically plagued the 996. Expensive to rebuild�$20,000 range +. Easy do-it-yourself for maintaining the car, except engine repairs are difficult when the engine needs to be dropped.
Any
996 you buy will end up costing you $35,000 - 40,000 (today�s market) to sort properly.
So do your homework. These cars are not cheap to own, even if you�re a great mechanic. These aren�t Toyotas or VW�s. Did I mention to do your homework?
The engines can last a very many miles. they don't seem to wear much, rather they can fail but they don't have to fail. There are a few points of failure.
Thanks for your replies, I'll jump in and figure it out as I go along. An older Porsche might have simpler mechanics but the comfortable handling of the 996 appeals to me, being less gocart like.
Rebuild is closer to 10k if you do it yourself - 5k for Nikasil liners + pistons and then 3-7k for the parts. Not counting all the needed generic and Porsche specific tools.
P9C - Basically true, with sleeves, pistons, gasket set, shipping/cleaning currently $6,500. Just did a new spreadsheet and the minimum cost range for the ‘other’ stuff is $4,000-$7,500. High end includes heads but no cam work. Add 60 hours of labor to that to be safe with budgeting.
There's a high mileage thread with some people over 300k. Be diligent with maintenance and they can last as long as any other under normal driving circumstances. Later models more susceptible to bore scoring, but on the early 3.4's it's a non-issue.
Actually, the parts alone (depending on what you do of course) will cost you close to 10k. Add to that a few specialized tools & ancillaries and you�re looking at $12-15k before you�ve done anything. There are a few things you can�t do at home (like heads & cylinders) that will run you $7-8k alone - and you don�t want to skip these as they�re done of the real weak points in the engine. You absolutely can DIY it (if you�ve got some skillz and attention to detail), but If you�re going to do it, do it right the first time or you�ll be throwing good $ after bad.
Gasp, for these prices i could provide camry's for half the ppl in Peru
The great feedback I've got from all of you is very useful, I'm having second and third thoughts, I will look for an 70-80s car with simpler mechanics/components.
Yeah, the sales prices can be deceiving- these were $80-$100k cars when new… Ain’t no Camry - never have been & never will be. In fact a new Camry would have cost you double what a 996 would just a couple years ago. That gap is closing quickly, and if you can’t do the work yourself, the maintenance bills will have you way under water fairly quickly… I agree a re-think is in order, unless you’re talking ‘70’s or ‘80’s Porsche… In which case I think you’re in for an even ruder awakening 😃🤷♂️
Under the original owner, the engine in my car died at about 20k miles. There is also an original owner here pushing well over 460k miles. Thats right, 460,000+. Hope this answers your question
These cars are the MOST fun to drive. Always smiling when I get in and get out. Never got that out of my Prius, or my GTI.
Maybe put it in terms of your retirement plan: If you can afford to buy and fix the worst case example without affecting your retirement funding, do it! Do not expect ROI(other than smiles), but be happy when it happens 10+ years from now.
Good luck with your decision. Hope to see you on board. It's a great ride!
ETA: I bought mine expecting the engine would need a reconstruction someday, and sure enough 2.5 years later, it was in the shop. Now, I don't need to worry about it for, well, the rest of my life...
if you wear leather loafers and a fedora and you go weekly to "cars and coffee" and breathe coffee breath all over people while you tell them how the base 996 is the best 911 even though you "can afford any 911 you want" then your car will last forever off the energy you zap from fellow enthusiasts.
"I agree a re-think is in order, unless you’re talking ‘70’s or ‘80’s Porsche… In which case I think you’re in for an even ruder awakening"
How bad can it be, Germany must be swarming with aftermarket parts for these babies? Its all steel and rubber after all and the 911 is not a rare car.
For my vanagon, which I bought in 2000 and aim to keep for life, it could not be more cheap or simple to find parts.
I want a sportscar that I can hand over to my kid one day (should he care) and where i can do most everything myself except things like boring cylinders and paint.
Great cars to drive, but very costly to own. My 2002 engine just spit out a valve seat at 137,000 mi, despite all the best (and expensive) maintenance....DT40 oil every 3000 miles, SN IMS bearing replacement, SN spin on oil conversion, yada, yada. I agree with the $12,000 to $15,000 DIY engine rebuild numbers (including specialized tools) from what I recently see. Air cooled Porsches were much easier, and cheaper to fix, because they were much less sophisticated but in my opinion just as much fun to drive. I think I'll go back to air cooled. Anyone looking for a roller?
Christ i did not know these came with 300 ponies. My dear ol' mum has a hybrid GTE with only 200 combined, I'll suggest her to upgrade.
Before thinking of getting a 996 I was going for a E34 or W124
137K is not exactly a short engine life. Air cooled typically required at least top-end rebuild at 60K; and top-end is what killed his
Water cooling has increased engine life of these cars by several orders of magnitude
Which is to be expected considering heat kills engines
DCT? sorry, I'm a norwegian living in France and don't know the lingo, Design Construction Technology? But yeah, why not get a car from the last line built for quality from either company, and i appreciate the lack of any electronics in the engine.
The VW dual clutch transmission that is based on Porsche's PDK
I'm a huge fan of the Golf in any flavor; I've got a diesel Sportwagen with the DCT that averages above 50MPG
The 996 is a great car but like any car that is a 20+ year old classic, you are going to have to replace parts, have service done and eventually an engine rebuild. Every 20 year old car known to man has the same thing. But most won't be worth crap in another 20 years because it isn't a Porsche 911.
Who wants a 20-40 year old Honda Civic? Nobody.
Who wants a 20-40 year old Porsche 911? A lot of people.
So, to keep it running it will cost you in labor and parts. Which means if you are not mechanically inclined, you will need to find an awesome Porsche Indy that can work on the car. Plenty of them in France and Norway. You just got to find them thru PCA members.
IMHO, it's worth it. But you have to make the decision if you would be better off spending 20-40k to buy a 996 or something else.
Just do a thorough PPI with a borescope before you purchase the car. The IMSB may or may not fail and failure is easily preventable with replacement solutions. The aos will fail and is easily replaceable with the UAOS. But Bore Scoring will force you to certainly get an engine rebuild. If the car you end up purchasing doesn't have bore scoring, then you are 5 steps ahead of everyone else. Just change the oil at least 2x a year if you are just driving it around town, regardless of the miles, if you want to help prevent bore scoring. Not every 15k miles like the owners manual says. Importantly, don't forget to use good fuel. And make sure you have relatively new fuel injectors. Ton of preventative solutions.
Good luck.
Lot's of discussion on the Honda auction how it was worth $35K; they consider that a steal. Obviously something going on there collector-wise that we don't know about. I mean a 1990 Buick did $180K last week too. I don't exactly have an explanation for that either.
Nah, there's a generation of buyers that grew up in the 90s and 2000s that now have money and are buying the cars they couldn't when they were younger.
A 2000 Civic SI in Electron Blue Pearl is already an icon, and this one with low mileage is even sweeter. $30,000 is going to seem cheap in a few years.
imagine being a car enthusiast without understanding the lure of 100hp per liter and 9000rpm red lines and double wish bone suspensions at all four corners in 2500lb cars that would last 250k+ miles for literally the price of a brand new honda civic
now imagine feeling superior when your 20yo engine costs $35k to replace because literally all it wants to do is disassemble itself
Imagine being a car enthusiast who uses cost anywhere in his calculation of what is cool.
Civic is a wrong wheel drive economy car. Doesn't matter what engine is in it or how lightweight it is.
its OK bro, we're all in the 996 forum together
if I admit the civic is wrong wheel drive, will you admit the engine is at least in a more advantageous location than hanging off behind the rear axle lol
Hah!
What are we talking here? Sports cars, sedans, coupes?
In fact, I love Honda's. I even owned a Civic and appreciated it for its dependable engineering. Still do. Convinced my mother to buy a Honda for the same reason. It's an incredible passenger car. But not a sports car. No matter what its power or weight metrics are. Nor is a 911 a passenger car. It's a sports car.
Now, if you are talking the performance of passenger cars, sedans, coupes, I am game. But we should probably create a new thread.
😊
Just don't plan on keeping the car forever. Spend as much as you can afford get the lowest mileage you can that has service history or at least one owner that you can talk to. Sell the car before it blows up. Profit. Any performance car is gonna be expensive eventually. I am not a rich man but I don't let this stop me from owning these cars. Obviously don't buy one if losing that money is going to break you financial. And don't buy it to commute or as your only form of transport. Otherwise, I say go for it. Life's too short.
No I'm really enjoying it actually. Terrified it's going to explode.
to be blunt, rennlist is and is not what I expected and I'm trying to figure out how to cope with that from a forum perspective
I get it. Hang in there. I have found RL to be a tremendous resource, but you have to be discerning with the info or you will have nightmares that are not warranted.
A 2000 Honda Civic Si had 160 hp and went 0-60 in 7.4 seconds.
1/4 mile in 15.9
Not even mediocre performance 21 years ago.
But I do understand the nostalgia.
Nostalgia that�s based on the potential of modifying a lightweight and relatively cheap econobox that had a high revving dependable engine.
WT,
Stay as you are. I like your sarcasm.
To all reading this thread. I bought my 2002 996 in 2002. Tracked it for a 14 years straight, on hoosiers, in the fastest run group, with no problems. I am now about to start tracking it again once the UIDS and LN Oil Cooling system are a go.
Did every preventive thing you can do to it along the way and they worked. In essence, preventative solutions were bolted on and it has been over serviced. Why, because I love the car and plan on keeping it until I can't get in and out of the GT3 seats anymore. Then my son gets it.
Have 57k miles on it and have changed the oil on average every 500-600 miles. Car and engine are still pulling strong with no signs of bore scoring. Some time in the next couple of years I will have the engine rebuilt to address every issue known to man on the M96. That's why I have spent so much time on RL over the past 2 years. Just looking for issues and solutions so I can have them addressed. I want a rebuild that gives me an extra 120 HP/TQ that I can track and drive around town. If I am competitive now on the track with my stock engine and set-up, I will be overly competitive after the rebuild.
Folks the 996 is an awesome car. And the market is figuring it out. If you don't own one, you better get your hands on one. These babies are a gem.
I don't see any type of classic analog ICE car being near it's maximum.
Analog era cars are long gone, and it will be only a few years before ICE are gone entirely.
Collect cool cars now because they will become priceless in the future.
The market for cool ICE cars may flatten out, but it will never go back down.
it could definitely take a hit due to all the speculation happening right now, but I definitely agree that ICE cars have already begun to condense down to cars that are more appreciated
FSI and LN are the most well known of engine re-builders in the states. Hartech in the UK. You can't go wrong with any.
In addition, there are plenty of Indy shops that do it as well. The reason is that there is a large DE/club racing community that always needs a rebuild and need it now. These Indies don't advertise as engine builders. They do do it as a service.
There is a thread on engine rebuild options that you can search for. It hasn't been updated for close to a year or two. But it would be a great starting point.
Lastly, as a Porsche owner, you want to pay attention to the DE/Club racing community and the Indy shops that provide services to it. The reason is that they are knee deep in the issues we discuss every day on RL and in many cases, have already have found solutions. In many cases you will never hear about it on RL. The reason is that no CR wants to give away any advantage. Don't take RL as gospel. Take it as a source for information that will compliment what you see and hear coming from the DE/CR community.
Bottom line is that there are plenty of solutions and service providers for our engines. You just got to move into another aspect of the PCA world to find it. From there you can make a decision on what you want to do and with what firm.
Further, I can't emphasize enough, the importance of getting involved with PCA DE events and CR events. The reason is that you get a concentrated ingestion of Porsche issues and solutions. Nothing wrong with track time with non PCA track events, but you will not get focused and concentrated conversations with just Porsche owners on Porsche issues and solutions.
You must read Zbombs thread on Oil Pressure Instability. It's long, it's loaded with vital information from all of the major engine builders and it critical in understanding the vast number of solutions that are available. DO NOT JUMP TO ANY CONCLUSIONS ON THIS THREAD UNTILL YOU GET TO THE END. You will find that there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel.
Lastly, read Porschetek's (Skip) thread on the UIDS. What you will find is that smart, experienced guys like Skip and George are developing solutions as we speak. UAOS, UIDS, can't wait to see what is next.
No need to lose any sleep. These cars and engines are durable as he'll if you change the oil and service them properly. The problem is that most previous owners failed to do both.
Having owned five 996's over two decades I can attest to this; in fact long-term I've had fewer mechanical issues with 996 than I had with 3.2, 964, & 993
No experience with the newer gen's; by choice
And FWIW while it's true Porsche made a killing by switching to the wet-sump M96, that's not because the wet-sump M96 is "cheap". On the contrary, that is because its dry-sump Mezger predecessor was
astronomically
overbuilt (and
absurdly
expensive to manufacture). The wet-sump M96 was still seriously overbuilt for a road car. By many magnitudes of order IMO; or the vast majority of 996's simply would not perform and endure as they indomitably have; on and off the track; for over two decades. And counting...
The 996 was an ultra-ightweight, street-legal German racing tank. Nuff said
My builds for a 964/993 start at 40K, and not a penny less. I am building one of my "R41" engines (@4.1L) currently from a hybrid 993/964 platform, and that's an 80K job that sucks the life out of me. I mix just enough of these into my personal schedule to keep me sharp on all platforms from 1950- present day when it comes to Porsche engines. The 964/993 are the most expensive street cars to own based on my experience as both an owner, and an engine developer.
We have a 2017 Golf, got it for my kid when she started driving. Chose it over the very popular Honda Civic redesign, no regrets. Biggest problem her and her friends damaged the sunroof. I suspect they were sitting on the roof partying. Heck I found a vid on her phone of her friend sitting outside the car driving it with his feet while she filmed. Anyway, VW wants 2000 to fix the roof out of warranty. Needless to say it's fixed in place for good.
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Folks, start researching Porsche's project with Exxon for biofuels. It's a reality. F1, IMSA, WEC are all in various stages of accepting and using it. Porsche ran their first season in the PorscheCup series using it. The next version is coming out next season.
The world is moving to biofuel. Most folks don't want to drive an electric car, nor can afford one. Most importantly, it's not yet viable for distance. Only Soccer moms from affluent families can afford to buy one and drive it to the grocery store.
I wouldnt loose any sleep over it. We will be driving our 996s in 40 years.
I dunno about kilomiles but I will tell you guys I bought this car for a queue of queue-t-pies and all I got was a long line of gray-haired old dudes asking me what year. Take that into consideration before you buy one.
As much as I want this to come true for the regular owner like you or I, I'm curious as to how this will play out. Will there need to be any modifications made to our cars to run this fuel? Given that Porsche is developing it I'm also curious how the distribution of it will look like. This stuff is being made in Chile to reduce the carbon footprint of production as much as possible (think wind) but this will no doubt be offset by transportation. Are we going to be driving to the mothership to fill up?
Last night I came across a video that talks about this topic and makes some interesting points:
You Tube
Pete, wish I new all the answers. Don't know if Porsche/exxon even know yet. But I do know that we will eventually need an ICE solution to fossil fuels that is renewable and viable that will make the greenies, politicians and energy companies happy.
My understanding is that this biofuel is able to be used in any petrol powered car today. It is being used now in Cup Cars. One of the negotiation points for Porsche to enter F1 is for F1 to adopt biofuel which is a benefit to Exxon Mobil. Question is when will Shell, BP, Petronas, etc. bring out their own versions. The target is 2026 with the new F1 engines. So if biofuel is adopted by F1, then every oil company will have to bring it out if they want to continue to be in racing.
A byproduct of this will be a huge shift in what energy companies produce and the raw materials needed. Goes from drilling petroleum to farming plants. You can see the directional trends forming for agri commodity supply and demand.
The question is what it will cost a gallon and when will the politicians officially mandate it over the use of petrol? We know it will happen. Just don't know when. My guess is that it will happen quickly over the next 10 years. It's inevitable.
I'll watch the video later today. Thanks!
You're not wrong! Market is just insane right now. Vroom paid over sticker price for my 2020 Civic Sport Hatch earlier this year. It was a zero down lease and I made almost 4K just in profit plus my payments back (owned for about a year)
oh I know all this, I thought the OP was saying with a straight face that FSI was literally the only place to get an engine built (sounding a bit uh � cultish)
Pete, interesting video and points.
We need to watch the Porsche "push" for biofuel in the various racing series and the response by the other oil companies. It's logical that big oil will evolve into diversified energy tech companies over the next decade thru a wave of M&A activity acquiring renewable energy tech companies and battery tech companies as well as using their own capital to incubate technology thru VC like activity to facilitate innovation.
In the meantime, the higher oil prices go, the more opportunity is created for the big oil companies to diversify away from petroleum into renewables and other innovations.
The greenies and politicians will push it, and the scientists as they always do will figure it out. Porsche/Exxon/Siemens just lit the match.
WT, take a look at the video. Reid is biased towards EV, but he gives a broad overview. With what Europe is mandating, the car companies need to embrace renewable fuels as the next step in reducing CO2 realizing that ICE cars will be on the planet for a long time.
Imho, hybrids are the intermediate term future not EV for one simple reason. We still don't have small enough batteries that can hold enough of a charge for meaningful travel distances. Hybrids solve that by charging the battery using green technology creating the opportunity for vehicles to go extremely long distances with one tank of biofuel.
As a side note, take a look at a few of the 996 Tesla motor swap videos. It's great engineering to see the swap but the problem is trying to figure out where to put the huge batteries. They are heavy as he'll.
Remember, Porsch lit the match on biofuel. Porsche is trying to get the racing community to adopt it. Why? So all oil companies begin to manufacture it and it becomes a viable energy solution that meets Euro standards.
Watch over the next few years as Porsche goes from making a big deal about their Taycan, to making a big deal about a hybrid Taycan as biofuel becomes acceptable by the politicians and produced and made available by the energy companies. It may cost 2x the price of petrol per gallon, but the engine will be hybrid and will get 2-3x the fuel mileage of a pure ICE engine. Along the way, guys like us who have a 996 will be happy as he'll because we will have fuel to drive it that meets the Govt standards and the car will be a classic collectible because they aren't making them anymore.
And everybody is happy because we are saving the planet, producing profits for energy and car companies, and enjoying our classic sports cars.
Even if UK does ban new ICE car sales, that does not affect existing ICE cars; much less 35+ year old Classic 911's
And banning ICE is not a practicable in the US almost at any level. The entire economy runs on ICE, literally transportation of all food and merchandise; not to mention hospital generators, ambulances, police cars, tanks, (most) planes/helicopters, and most importantly: 996's
Police won't even shut their motors off while they spend an hour eating lunch. Does anyone really see them plugging into a Tesla charger for 7-hours in between calls?
There isn't even a theoretical power source right now that can replace ICE. It will take aliens
As for legislation, one word: "Prohibition"
I see this huge electric push going through, but then I anticipate a shift back to ICE very quickly, once people the realities associated with such a shift.
Remember, the PDK was supposed to take over all the Porsche models, but we've seen that doesn't work across the board, and the more coveted cars are manuals when they are released with a new Porsche.
One day the limited edition cars will still have pistons.
I'm not against electric cars at all.. I think that they are actually cool in some applications, and I wouldn't mind having one. Just one.
I'm personally not a hybrid fan. Give me one or the other. I do like the Taycan, just wish it didn't have ICE sound effects (or "Turbo" on the bumper). Can't buy into that
I wasn't a hybrid fan at the beginning but can appreciate them now after what Audi and Porsche did with their prototypes. Still don't care for electric engines for many reasons. But I couldn't stop laughing when I heard the fake exhaust sounds this summer as a Taycan was pulling into a parking lot. Kinda like the nut jobs in Hollywood that get fake muscles implanted in their arms and shoulders. But what do I know, I am just a boring guy living in the Midwest.
My kid would be walking(or riding a bicycle) if I found a video like that on their phone!
(22 year old who drives the Mustang that's still in MY name, or the 15 year old learning how to drive now)
Their friend would get a stern talking to as well.
If they're going to do something so stupid, they'd better do it with their own car and without my kid inside.
So far they've had better sense than to try something like that.
As a cynic, I hear you loud and clear.
There will be plenty of gas to power ICE vehicles. It just may not be petroleum based.
Think about this for a second...
Who can afford and as a result own EV cars? Affluent people.
Who makes up the majority of the world's population and owns the vast majority of ICE vehicles, not to mention can't afford EV cars? Non-affluent people.
Got a long way to go to eliminate ICE. Especially since we have a wave developing with biofuel. I gotta agree with Jake. EV is an exciting fad for the affluent population. It's just not practical for the masses with current technology. That's not to say that there will not be EV motors in cars. They will just be attached to an ICE that burns biofuel to charge the EV batteries.
The wildcard is battery technology. If only we can invent a battery that can hold energy...and charge quickly without exploding...
Still don't have any.
sorry, i don�t think just one person can rebuild these engines. I personally know two guys that went to FSI took their training and can rebuild the engine. My mechanic is one of them and he has already done a few. If you are in this area and need a good reasonable mechanic let me know. I�m in Katy.
You do make a good point.
On the flip side, if predictions are true, half of all new vehicles in the US will be electric in just 9 years, that is going to impact gasoline.
As market demand for gasoline drops, prices will go up when we lose economy of scale. I think there will be a tipping point where you will see fewer gas stations and much higher prices for gas. Think of all those SUVs and trucks that get 15 to 20 miles per gallon and filling a tank of gas is going to take a significant chunk of weekly pay. Bio-fuels or synthetic fuels will likely be expensive, too. Not so much a problem for those with deeper pockets, but the little guy will be forced to look at more economical means for transport.
Prices will drop on economy EVs and there will be attractive financing and leasing to draw people away from their old gas-consuming clunkers. Auto makers will want to sell cars and they will find a way to make that happen, even for the less affluent.
Lastly, some cities have initiated something called the Fossil Fuel Free Streets Declaration, committing to ban fossil fuel vehicles by 2030. Again, that is only 9 years away. You can still own a gas vehicle, but can't drive it in those cities. The bottom line, as I see it, is that things are changing rapidly and the paradigm of the last 100 years is breaking down. This is the issue we have. We formulate our intuitive understanding of our world based on prior living experience, and when rapid change overtakes us we are unprepared or shocked by the rate of change. Some changes go almost seamlessly, like cell phones. Thirty years ago they were more of a novelty, but rapidly turned into a necessity. Transportation may not follow that transition.
I should add that we view life in a linear fashion. That is, the rate of change in the last ten years is a good indicator of what will pass in the next ten years. Our brains are wired for linear thinking. That's not what we are experiencing or have been experiencing. The rate of change about us is progressing in an exponential fashion.
Wikipedia has a good link on the phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-..._fuel_vehicles
Interesting subject, no?
Marv, all good points and I can't argue against them.
We live in an interesting time very similar to the turn of the century (1900) with all of the technological innovation that occurred and forever changed the economy and society.
Creative destructive is an interesting force. Because of it, I am cheering on Porsche to make biofuel a reality and to dominate the EV and Hybrid market with practical innovation.
No question the next 20 years will be a head spinner for all of us. Who knows, in 10 years we may move from discussing LS3, K24 and Tesla engine swaps to hybrid hydrogen engine swaps.
Along the way, I will continue to enjoy my 996 knowing that their will be something I can put in the tank to drive it. But to your point, it may be an expensive 15 gallons of fuel.
I had a lot of experience with big fleets running 20 diesel 80 bio. A lot of challenges and issues. One fleet had cats, the other one 250 trucks Cummings including 20 signature 600. The fuel filters would get clogged, the oil would become extremely thick, the oil filters would clogged. A lot of deposits on engines. Lost performance, as a matter of fact that�s why that fleet bought the 600 hp engines so the would assigned those the heavier loads. I�m also a PSX (Phillips 66)large stock holder. This is the largest
refiner in the us, they have a project at ferndale in California producing bio
fuels but this is still small in scale. In my opinion not till about 2040 you�ll have less than 50 percent ICE in the US. Yes I�m also a large XOM stockholder, yes I known about algae for a long time, it�ll be a while. By the way I want to applaud XOM by giving employees raises less than inflation, that company overpays people and still has a bunch of fat to cut. Remember I�m talking as a owner. I bought it big time when it got drop out of the dow jones and the stock price was the cheapest in 50 years, what an opportunity. Anyway back to the thread I have seen test driven 996 with over 200k miles on the engines, if people drive them properly and maintain them properly why not.
I really am trying to understand how the shift to EV will actually happen. For the record, I am not against EV's. There are just a number of things I don't understand about the future of EV's:
I want to compare EV's to Cell phones in the 80's/90's. Over a span of less than 15 years, cell phones went from a luxury to a technology that was available to almost everyone, worldwide. The infrastructure was built (all of the millions of towers now covering the planet), the battery technology shifted fast. Remember when they advertised talk time? I would suggest that the tech got standardized around 1999/2000 then the evolution to smart phones happened. We have been trying to figure out the EV for decades, in earnest for at least 20 years. Lot's of improvements. Have not seen a shift yet.
Where is the electricity going to come from if we shift to EV's? Simple calculation based on joules of energy. Even assume that electric cars are much more efficient than ICE, huge amounts of energy will be required. Solar and wind will not work. Huge infrastructure will need to be built. Power plants, transmission, local delivery. Any of these initiatives are major capital projects requiring decades of planning. Nevermind combining all 3. In order to meet any of the timelines that manufacturers and governments like to put out there like no more ICE by 2030 are just pipe dreams. Shovels would need to be in the ground now to even achieve 50% sales reduction in ICE by 2040.
I do think that this period in transportation history will be looked at as experimental. Like steam for cars was used in the early 1900's. For EV's to gain wide use and a true replacement for ICE will require:
1. Major cost reduction - think Henry Ford and the Model T.
2. Build the infrastructure. This can be happening right now. There will always be a demand for more and more electricity, regardless if there are EV's or not.
3. A fast technological shift, not just slow improvements is necessary to kill ICE and adopt another transportation energy source? EV's? Porsche E-gas? Hydrogen?
Another thing to note is that the world today is much different than 100 years ago. 100 years ago, 90% of the planet had lived the same way for a millennia. Adoption of cars was limited to 10% of the population. Today, an energy transportation shift will impact at least 80% of the world's population.
And, if it sounds like I am hating on EV's, I really am not. I would love to see a new transportation mechanism. Today, and for the past 10 years, I have had the ability to charge an EV at work....for free. Big encouragement there. Unfortunately, an EV would then require me to have a third vehicle. I am the only driver in my household - neither the wife or dog drive. An EV certainly doesn't replace my 996. And an EV can't replace my jeep which is used as a jeep: hauls boats, travels to rural locations for a number of different activities like fishing, hunting, ATVing etc.
I am to old to ever find out if Elon is the new Edison or Henry Ford. That being said, I do applaud his efforts.
See you at the Porsche e-gas station coming soon!
Yup this. 100% EV (or anywhere near it) is a political pipe dream without the interjection of alien technology, or the passage of several hundred years of exponential innovation.
when we went almost to Mexico way down south padre island I didn�t see any charging station. I went thru small roads because the iphone navigation told me that was the shortest distance. Anyway 8 hrs of driving and I still had a quarter tank of gas. Sometimes when I fill it up it says 800 miles to empty that�s something that ev will have to solve. And yes I only paid $ 28,500 for my 19 f150 stx super crew cab, another piece of the puzzle that Evs will have to solve.
I totally get Obama’s “We have to try” argument. More power to EV literally and figuratively. And I’ll be first on the list for an EV 911.
But ICE isn’t going anywhere for centuries. At least
yeah I haven�t met a brother that didn�t voted for him because he was a bro. Hope and change, yeah right, the guy was a community organizer didn�t accomplish ****. Yes he can deliver a speech, and now he lives in the richest zip code in the USA. No he doesn�t want to go back to Illinois because it is fck up there. I have three college degrees more education and international buss experience, anyway since i
�didn�t have sx with that woman� I�m writing myself up for the next election as a candidate ��
I like the Colombians and Venezuelans best. Now if you are ever in Amsterdam you have to go to the red light district. Like a steakhouse it is displayed behind Crystal you choose your cut.
6 lb brisket flat. Started at 1 am this morning, now resting, I bet I got a huge fat smoke ring on it. Potato salad, ranch style beans, sausage. Can wait to have lunch.
Holy trinity, wine, beef broth, onions, garlic, celery.
This engines cars can last if you maintain them well. I just saw this early 99 with 180,000 miles. I personally drove a 225,000 mile coupe trip and a 173,000 mile manual convertible and they were in good shape. Seems this one has been taken care of , I guess my car is relatively new compared to this one since I just turned 98,000 miles.
Yeah and it still goes like a bat out of hell. Had it at 140 today coming back from buying some potato salad.
The longevity of Porsche engines shocks even Porsche. There’s a story in Leffingwell’s latest anthology about driving a 911 1000 KM to a 1960’s six day oval track endurance race, and then driving it back to the factory again. Six straight days & nights at almost 200MPH. Then you drive another 1000 KM home. Even the factory couldn’t believe it.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
