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YOUR RESEARCHDealer have to sell at advertised price?
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He ran off to get "Huggie just like the diaper but not smelly"(did I tell you were slimy?) Huggie came over all indignant telling me that "we never sell repossessed cars." I told it was and he got all upset saying I was wrong.
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Same year car with a few more miles (32k), same price, Certified Used - all new brakes, tires, filters.
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Car was not certified used although it was a 2017 with 24k on the clock.
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I hate most used car dealers, especially the smaller ones.
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He ran off to get "Huggie just like the diaper but not smelly"(did I tell you were slimy?) Huggie came over all indignant telling me that "we never sell repossessed cars." I told it was and he got all upset saying I was wrong.
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I�m considering purchasing a used car from a dealer (Alfa Romeo Giulia to replace my E90 BMW, sorry for non-996 post). It�s a 2019 advertised at $31,450+tax/title/doc.
I drove the car and it checks out. Talked some initial numbers with the sales manager and now he says there is another $2,800 in fees they have to charge for �handling� and �dealer preparation�. Non-negotiable. This is BS, right?
I know this varies by state (I�m in IL), but don�t they have to sell the car for the advertised price + tax/tile/doc fee?
This kind of garbage is why I usually buy from private parties.
Might be a state-by-state thing but I think dealers can sell whatever they want however they want. Adding fees is pretty common, usually, its in the print somewhere although $2800 seems excessive. The last two cars I bought advertised X price but somewhere it says $300 dealer fee for paperwork.
In IL vehicles are always listed at price + tax/title/document fee. The doc fee is about $300. The fees this dealer is claiming are on top of that and weren�t advertised. They claim one is for their online marketing, detailing the vehicle, etc, and the other is the salesman�s commission. This seems like they should be baked into their advertised price or or it�s deceptive advertising.
I agree but dealers do shady stuff all the time, that stuff should be built into the price but for whatever reason, they chose not to. I would just walk away.
It's a used car. When I do it, everything is negotiable, including any dealer fees. If everything from the asking price and fees (except state fees) is non-negotiable, I walk away. Check back in with them in a week or two, say you might still be interested and ask where things stand now.
That sounds like B.S. markup tactics to me! Handling and dealer prep on a used car!!??...Come On Man!
Have you reviewed the Alfa Giulia reliability and customer satisfaction ratings? Not the best...
Some things never change. This dealership obviously believes in the expression, "A sucker is born every minute" and YOU might be one of them. A common tactic is to lure someone in with a lower than market average advertised price, get them emotionally attached to the car, but then stick them with unusual dealer add-ons and special fees that are over and above the advertised price. It's all a game, don't play it.
If you really must have a used Alfa, then make a "drive out" offer. If they reject it, then get up, and walk out.
Most of the interesting European cars out there aren�t very reliable. I�ve had my share of issues with Audis, BMWs, and Porsches. I�m not interested in a Lexus but I am interested in owning an Italian car at least once. The majority of reported problems seem to be on the Quadrifoglio models with the Ferrari derived motor. I�m looking at the 2.0T motor that has been more reliable. Plus, I�m only shopping for cars that are still under warranty.
To be clear, I did walk out of the dealer. I�m trying to figure out where to lob in a counter offer, or whether to just cut bait.
They have the exact spec I�m looking for, and I would service it at a different dealer closer to my house. I mean, it�s a lovely car, but I�m not so in love with it to fall for BS tactics.
I took a job for about a couple of weeks years ago one summer as a Renault mechanics assistant and all-around shop gopher to fund my college expenses. During one day, I was charged with sandblasting and repainting a half shaft with rattle can black paint and then helped the mechanic place it back into the car. I found out later that the dealer without using a gun and a mask had charged the owner for a new half shaft and a pound & a half worth of abuse! Preventing Burmese gas worms from infecting various owners' gas tanks by adding off-the-shelf fuel additives at inflated prices to the refurbishing of existing parts charged as new.....while only working there a few weeks, gave me a real on the job education. There are a few dealerships but the majority are dealer****s.......and used cars help pay for the big the floor plans that dealerships are now saddled with, especially if you finance through them.
I once had a dealer tack on $3k of bull **** fees for prepping the car and etc. I simply declined and walked out. I'd be happy to pay that fee if he would like to deduct it from the cost overall cost of the car. This goes as advice for purchasing a car anywhere and anytime - always negotiate with the out the door price and ask what that is.
BTW, great choice on a Giulia! They are fantastic and one of the best driving sedans out there. There is plenty of them out there and I'm sure the same spec will come along.
On a used car, the only fees you should be seeing are the ones associated with registering your new vehicle (even on a certified preowned at an Alfa dealer)...anything else is just horsecrap.
20 years ago I used to represent a Lincoln Dealer. At the time their dealer/doc preparation fee was $79.99. Now most dealers now charge in excess of $500.00. It's all made up. Except for tax, the title fee and a year's registration (assuming you have a tag to transfer) actually paid to the State of Florida is maybe $150.00. It takes the clerk in back 20 minutes to do the paperwork. Even if an ad that got you in there said that fee existed (but didn't give specific number) that would be a deceptive trade practice.
I've been searching for a 1998-2003 Jaguar XJ8 to drop in an LSx so I don't care if the engine and tranny are shot. Found one on autotrader.com for $3,600 a couple of hundred miles away at a Mazda dealership. When scroll down it reads, "
Price excludes $99 Electronic Filing Fee, sales tax and dealer pre-delivery service fee in the amount of $1099 which represents cost and profit to the dealer for items such as cleaning inspecting and adjusting new and used vehicles and preparing documents related to the sale." One picture shows the check engine light on, so I ask the salesman to have the mechanic pull the codes. He calls back, battery dead and when they tried to jump it the car would crank but not start. Doesn't look like they spent much of that $1099 on "inspection and adjusting."
Send him an email how much you'll pay bottom line except fees to the state. They will either say yes or no. If no, another one will pop up.
@SoCal911t
I forgot about that scene! It just perfectly captures the misery of the car buying experience.
So, I did find the applicable law in IL, taken directly from the Illinois Dealer Association�s web site:
Section 475.310 Advertised Price
It is an unfair or deceptive act to advertise the total price of a motor vehicle without including in the advertised price all costs to the purchaser at the time of sale
, or which are necessary or usual prior to delivery of such vehicle to the purchaser, including any costs of delivery, dealer preparation and any other charges of any nature; provided, however, taxes, license and title fees and a documentary service fee, as defined herein, may be excluded from the advertised price if clearly disclosed in the advertisement that these costs are excluded from the advertised price.
Purchasers shall be able to purchase all vehicles described by the advertisement at the advertised price.
I�ll remind the sales manager of this whether I buy it or not.
I didn�t have to bring up the law at all. Walking away on Saturday was enough to make them reconsider. The sales manager called me the minute the dealer opened today (they�re closed on Sundays here). I let his call bounce and texted him my offer. Lo and behold he agreed to it.
Of course that wasn�t the end of the games. He said he had someone else there making on offer (10 minutes after they opened on a Monday) and needed me to give him a deposit to stop the other deal. I let him know I would be back tomorrow with with my wife so she can drive it and then we would complete the deal, but I understood if he had another deal.
It�s snowing now - I have a feeling the car will still be there tomorrow.
I highly recommend negotiating with the dealer over text. You have so much more time to consider your responses, and it�s easier to just ignore all the pressure tactics. This is the only way I will do this in the future.
I agree. In person or even by phone, you're on their turf. I don't care if you're a double Ph.D., you're still at a disadvantage. Hopefully when you pic up the car they won't have added the TruCoat.
My worst dealer story was them refusing to bring back my keys from their test drive of my trade-in after I said no deal. Said the guy who test drove my car left and they didn't know where he put my keys. When I was on the phone with the sheriff's office to report my false imprisonment, the keys were found.
I can't take credit. SoCall911t posted the video first. I grew up in 'Scansin not Minnesota, but the buyer so well captures that upper midwest personality. Yah der hay!
You can find invoice price on line, then it is just a matter of what percent you are going to give them as profit. <3%. Dealers get a "holdback" from manufacturers for each car they sell. At certain times of the year and with some makes you can get the car at invoice. The dealer still makes money on the holdback, and their allotment of cars for the next year from the manufacturer increase with the sale.
Dealers make more money on servicing the cars than on selling the cars. The more they sell, the more servicing $ they earn, so they are motivated.
Buying new cars is a much simpler process. Buying a used car, even a relatively new one from the brand�s dealership, is a way different game.
I will be careful with these guys if I proceed with the deal, but I will be servicing it at a different dealer. The Alfa dealer closest to me is also a Rolls/Bentley/Lamborghini dealer and I have the owner�s cell number. I espect better treatment there.
Walk. When I bought my CPO MB E class, when the salesman brought out the contract, the first thing I did was to cross out the doc fee. There is no such thing. It is called overhead. As for the price, the only legit add one would be actual motor vehicle fees and sales tax.
I agree. Before I bought the Pcar a local used car outfit had a 350Z Nismo and I always wanted to drive one. Got some info on it online including a free CarFax and saw that it was a bank repossession. I didn't care as I just wanted to drive it. Went on a Saturday(mistake number one). When I got there the place was packed and I didn't leave(mistake number two). This glad-handing high pressure dude met me before I even got out of my car, a 300ZX, telling me there was a big sale on and there was a sales staff from out of town to help and I still didn't leave(mistake number 3). He was wheeling and dealing for my car before I even spoke and still...well you get the picture. Drove the Nismo fast but rode like a buckboard in sport setting. When I came back they were on me like flies on cow dung. I listened to their blathering long enough for them to take a break to breathe at which time I said "I appreciate you letting me drive the Nismo but I would never buy a repossessed car." The less experienced one said "it's not repossessed" and I told him again it was. He ran off to get "Huggie just like the diaper but not smelly"(did I tell you were slimy?) Huggie came over all indignant telling me that "we never sell repossessed cars." I told it was and he got all upset saying I was wrong. I pulled the CarFax out and gave it to them which had the bank action highlighted. While they acted surprised I told them "see ya later!" and walked out.
I hate the car sales dance especially after reading a book in the 80's titled "Don't Get Taken Every Time" since then the wife will not go with me to deal on a car as I apparently embarrass her. Some dealerships are straight up crooks some are not.
Buyer beware indeed...
They all suck. I bought my used Colorado back in October from a Dodge stealership. The ******** tried to tack on a $600 for "options". I of course asked what options that was, he said the Z71 package. I told him to **** off because that was on the car when it rolled off the assembly line. When I got up to leave they took it off. Of course there were other shady line items but since I drive my dailys into the ground around 300k miles, it was due.
Dealerships suck, but sometimes it's easier than dealing with private parties also. Double edge sword sometimes.
Exactly why people purchase cars from online companies like Carvana and Carmax.. they are a very popular choice these days because of the nickel and diming that brick and mortar dealerships try to pull over on customers.
Again, I say to all those that buy used cars from dealerships... make a "drive-out" offer and then leave the ball in their court. If they reject... walkout.
I wonder how many thousands of dollars are left on the table by stupid sales departments. I went with my adult daughter to look at a used Corolla at one dealer where a relative works in the parts dept. Car was not certified used although it was a 2017 with 24k on the clock. Drove it and the brakes sucked. Looking at the front rotors I see a big lip, so obviously worn a bit. I told the sales rep it needed brakes all around and tires (2 mismatched). Other than that the car was very clean, title search showed it lived most of its life in VT and NH. I started to wonder if this was a fleet car that was not documented or if the PO was a rural mail carrier. Brakes worn out at 24k miles? The stupid sales rep got his sales manager and I showed them both the front rotors. They agreed to change the tires but would not commit to changing the brakes. We walked.
We drove to another Toyota dealer that had no haggle pricing. Same year car with a few more miles (32k), same price, Certified Used - all new brakes, tires, filters. We were in and out of there in 2 hours. Yes, the doc fee was $500, but they gave my daughter $1000 more for her trade than the other dealer, so she ended up with a car in better shape for less money. I still can't believe the other dealer let a sale go over brake pads and rotors.
I just bought my wife�s 2019 BMW X3 M40i at CarMax. Very pleasant process. Only a $250 fee that covers everything. No haggle. They bought our used Audi Q5 from us. No problems there either. Took about 60 mins all-in.
Even employees are not exempt from the "games". I remember years ago the dealer I worked for fore many years had a policy that employees could purchase any new car for $100 over cost and any used car for $200 over.One day a saw a 1976 Bronco Red/White 302 Three-on the tree cream puff sitting there while I was on a road test, I asked the salesman ,who was a friend of mine and had worked the deal, how much we traded it in for, he told me and I said I wanted it. He came to me later and told me the Sales Manager had raised the trade-in price $1k, so i went to the Sales Manager and told him I wanted the Bronco at the original trade-in price plus the $200, his words were that the customer had beaten them up so bad on the new car price that they had to low-ball him on the Bronco and refused to let me have it for actual trade-in price +$200. So i stepped into the General Managers office and told him the situation, he told me to go to the bank and get the money, he would go get the keys and have the paperwork ready by the time I got back....lol..The Sales Manager didn't speak to me for quite a while after that...
Well, not planning on buying an EV anytime soon, I still wish Elon Musk and the Tesla team all the best.
I'm sure Musk's move to Texas was a major kick in the California groin about like when people don't drink the dealership Kool-Aid and buy online.
At risk of sounding like a dealer apologist... There are *some legitimate costs for documentation and maintenance of those docs. But if it costs the dealership more than $50 they really need to evaluate their processes.
I'm a fan of the Gulia, and of walking away from slimy dealers. The one time I persevered through with a sub par dealer I still ended up with my worst car purchase, and I've had 20+ cars despite my (relatively) young age.
LOL. Someone else bought the car before I could get back out to the suburbs to buy it. I'm sorry I missed out on the exact spec I was looking for, but glad to not deal with them anymore. Now I have to decide if I wait for another Misano Blue to turn up locally or if I go for a red one, as they seem to be more available.
Perhaps I'll wait...in the meantime I get to enjoy the manual transmission in my E90. It's bound to be the last stick shift daily driver I'll ever have.
Regarding the online dealers: I went through a Vroom check out right up until the payment. It couldn't have been easier. Great price and not shadiness. I may consider this yet, but it's still hard for me to buy a used car site unseen.
There are some decent dealers out there. I pre-ordered my MINI before they were released in the US and that was an awesome experience. They were in demand, so the dealer didn't discount, but they also didn't take on any BS fees. I got to spec out the build-sheet exactly how I wanted and just wait for it to arrive.
Right up the road.. in your color...
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
and another one..
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
and again...
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
Used car dealers doing shady stuff? Never heard of that one.
I don't buy cars from used car dealers, I don't suffer their bull ****. I once told a new car salesperson to never **** with a customer and then bought the same car from some other salesperson at the same dealer (who did not **** around with me) the next day.
All right,
@b3freak
is now my personal shopper!
That�s the dealer - Zeigler Alfa in Schaumburg, IL.
I�m looking for a very specific spec (2019 Misano Blue, perf package, sport interior, leather package, AWD), but I�m willing to wait a bit for one to turn up. Also, my wife has told me no more out of state car purchasing trips, so I need to find one local or have it shipped form a seller I trust.
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