996 with issues- value? Roller?

Hi Everyone, First off, thank you for past help. I had posted a few months ago about a family member passing- I was asking for feedback on selling. Great advice here. He had a 2013 Carrera S fully loaded AND a silver 1999 996 convertible. I ended up taking the 991 to the dealer it was serviced by. They made and offer we could not refuse. They will re-cpo the car and sell it for 70K+. This leaves me with the Silver 996 with 115K miles. My wife and I have been driving it around town. It's a heck of a lot of fun. However, it burns a quart of oil per fill up. IMS done by Flat 6. Bored as well. But has some other issues. I need to come up with a worst case scenario and will most likely offer to buy it off my cousins kids. It will then sit in my driveway until my wife yells at me (I own a crystal ball). My goal is fairness. Not an unbelievable deal. I want to make sure that $X + 1K (taxes) will be QUICKLY recovered if I need to sell it. I have seen closed ebay auctions for more desirable models with engine issues around 9-10K. The one in question had a salvage title. Another 4s Coupe went for 15K. What is a base 1999 Carrera roller worth? As mentioned in my first post- there are other issues. None of the window work with the switches. They work when you drop the top or raise the top. The top works well when its cold- doesn't work when above freezing. The cylinders are leaking. I don't really care about the top- will leave it down 24-7. I know: I should probably pay a mechanic to take a look at it and diagnose. I don't want to spend a dime on it until I buy it... and given the oil consumption... I assume the worst. -Matt

Hi Matt, Is this the '99 silver 996 you're referring to in this thread? https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ost-996-a.html Did you ever confirm with Jake Raby that Flat 6 Innovations did a Stage 1 reconstruction on the engine?

Hi! Yes, that is the Porsche. And yes, it has a stage 1. I found the paperwork and credit card payment. -Matt

Worth noting: I have had a Jeep project in my back yard for 10 years... My wife has pointed this out to me 120 times over the last 10 years. Another project... maybe a learning disability?

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I'm biased to Flat 6 Innovations and so I may not be the most objective source for a rough value on the car, but since it has a Flat 6 Innovations engine in it, that means it will bring more value even though it's been many years since the work was done and now the engine is consuming oil. My best advice is to get a pre-purchase inspection from an independent Porsche shop listing everything that needs to be done on the car. I would ask for a cost estimate too. That will be a fair non-biased document you can present to your cousin's children when you're working out an exact dollar amount for the car. Personally, I've owned a 996 and a 996 cabriolet. The cabriolets do not hold their value like the coupes. As you can see the median value for a 1999 Porsche Cabriolet is about $17,000. However, as I mentioned before, with a Flat 6 Innovations Stage 1 engine, the car is worth a lot more than average.

I would counterpoint and say that it doesnt matter whos engjne it has in it if needs a rebuilt its still just a roller. I paid $4500 for my roller 3 years ago and its a full aero coupe. I would say u might get a little more of a premium because it does run but $6-8k would be it.

That oil burn rate is very alarming to me. A quart per 350 miles, more or less? With this it might not matter that it has an FSI motor. I'd definitely suggest a thorough inspection to find out why, if you're committed to the car. I have a badly blown AOS (UAOS in the mail) and burn oil too but this is about 3 times as bad so I'm guessing there are other issues or a combination of.

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I kindly disagree. If it's a roller, then it usually doesn't have an engine. If there is an engine, then it's more than likely a total loss. Also, this engine is not just any rebuild by some run-of-the-mill shop or shade tree mechanic. This engine will have many proprietary parts, precision measurements, balancing, etc.... including nikasil bores. You're not going to get that from Bubba's Euro shop down next to Walmart. Normally, the average shop is just going to put it back together with the same or similar parts from the factory. Many of those parts, Flat 6 has noted to be failure points (e.g. IMS tensioner paddle, IMS Bearing, etc.). They address all 31 modes of failure with M9X engines during the reconstruction process. Again, I wouldn't say it doesn't matter what engine is in the car.... and it's my gut feeling this engine doesn't need a rebuild, but just many aging parts addressed.

One more note... my oil burn rate might be a bit on the high side. We went to Vermont for 1 month. So it sat for one month. When I started it.... it was like James Bond smoke screen. I will top both off and try to get a more accurate measurement. I tend to think that 6-8K is the price on this one. Thank you for feedback. I will update once I get more more accurate burn... I have to make a decision by the weekend. Otherwise I will try to sell it.

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This is more than likely an AOS on it's way out. If you purchase this car, you need to replace it ASAP. This could also explain the oil consumption issue. If you don't replace it, it could lead to hydrolock. You Tube

It's all semantics. The engine is drinking oil at an alarming rate and that doesn't lead to anything good, especially at this rate. Call it a roller ++. The engine does have a lot of proprietary parts and work done but that's what it is. Proprietary. The owner only has one choice if he wants to rebuild back to it's original glory. Use FSI. And that's granted FSI wants to take on the job. I don't know the details around what things look like for future owners of these engines. Plus that wait list. Best option is still to have the engine examined to find out the why. At that point either try to work with FSI on a solution or pursue other rebuild options.

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But if that motor is toast and needs rebuild your not going to let bubbas garage do it. That means a 2 year wait and $20-25k for flat6 to redo it. It was rebuilt a while ago, (10yrs?) and a ton of improvements have been made with a flat6 motor since. My point is its not gonna be any less to fix this motor then any other 996 motor. First thing that needs to be done it to verify the condition of the motor. U need to stop driving it. Open up a ticket with flat6 and get it to the correct mechanic. U r playing around with $25k of risk right now.

I went back through my messages in the ticketing system and found that Fred was having injector issues that he messaged about a few years ago. We went back and forth on this for a while, but then the ticket went dormant and I never heard anything else. It's my guess that the engine ran rich for a while, and the injectors were not addressed, and as a result the oil was contaminated. I guessed that he probably had the injectors replaced, since that was my only recommendation at that time, and this was right about the time that we started using new injectors in every engine, due to the issues we'd started seeing with OE injectors. I never heard back, so I guessed he repaired that. Do you have any receipts or etc that mention injectors? That may be a big clue to the underlying causes, and how long things were neglected after I directed him with what to do. I also had sent him a crankcase manometer tool (let him borrow it) and it was never returned. I'd like to get that back, if it was with the car. His shop didn't have one, so I sent him one of ours. (the fact that the shop didn't have this tool was alarming) He had also stated that the AOS was replaced because it had failed at some point a couple of years before, in that message he had stated that his local shop did not adhere to my oil mandates, because they could not keep any of the oils on hand that I called out in the post- delivery directives. I am not sure what oil he had been running prior to that, as he never stated it. I also don't know what oil is in the engine now, since he just disappeared. Perhaps this was when he became ill? For a value, I have several people who would love to get that car as it is, and use it for a base for a project. Likely it could have the UAOS installed, as set of injectors, a big flush of the oil system, and then go through a regimen to seal things back up, and be fine. At the same time, it may have ran with the bad injectors, and AOS issue so long that the engine has been filled with soot, and needs to come apart. Some diagnosis on our end could determine this fairly easy. Fred was a super nice guy, and he really used that 996! I can help you find a new home for it.

There is your answere.... get with Jake because u wont likely do any better.

@Flat6 Innovations Jake, are you recommending DIFFERENT injectors than OEM, or just NEW OEM injectors with every engine? Just wanted to be clear the way I was reading your post.

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That's depending on the engine, and application. All of my engines get new injectors with the current program. Some are genuine Porsche, others are Bosch, and some are (larger) aftermarket. There's no blanket statement answer for this question.

A detailed list of all the things that don't work is important here. The motor we know could be a simple issue with great value in the end. Is this a manual or TIP? Why would someone pay $8K and then have to fix a bunch of stuff when he could go buy one for $17K that's fully functioning and ready to enjoy. If you're not ready to fix it today pass it on to someone that can and will do it. 10 year projects sitting in the yard always cost more in the end... FWIW, I paid $4K for my 02 coupe as a roller.

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That's the part I was looking for, thanks!