New affordable 996 engines from porsche?

I found this recent thread on 911uk. It looks like porsche is offering new m96 long blocks for 2,800 pounds. About $4,100. Does anyone know if these are avail in the US? Discussion there notes Porsche doing this as the 996 now considered classic by them. And of course discussing if porsche made any upgrades to address known weak areas. http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=101085

Probably some cruel joke I would guess. There's no way Porsche would offer up a LONG block for that amount.

Not to clear on UK terms, but first poster from UK link mentions "short engine". Could that be a short block as know over here?

That does look legit. Short Engine will be short block. That is interesting.. I wonder if it will be the same over here. 2700 pounds is about $4000

Seems to be true if you read all the comments. Worth reading all 4 pages, some very good points by Hartech on pages 3 and 4!!

even at $4100 for the short block, isn't that what is usually damaged when the IMS fails? If that is the case, would that lower core charges? Forgive me does long block mean the same thing in "Porshe" terms as it does in American engine (IE cam cover to oil pan) and short block would be rotating assembly and block. I have not read the thread the OP posted (but plan to)

"Slight problem is the engine code is M96.03" only "since they not only contain all the old potential problems of bore scoring and ovality, coolant flow restrictions and �D� chunking etc " "but far better to strip, inspect and assess the old engine first " "When it comes to re-sale prices I also think that engines fitted with Alloy Nikasil cylinders will hold a premium and that after a couple of years use those with Lokasil cylinders will still embody a risk that may put some buyers off." Beware cheap IMSB: "Also this week we have an engine in failed and damaged due to the complete failure of an expensive IMS bearing conversion originating in the USA and promoted by others over here."

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Again, I have not read the original thread - but could you talk more about this? Which replacement solution failed?

The source: http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_9...t_Hartech.html

But if you were looking to use a used engine to get the car back on the road, this is a better bet.

Perhaps. But what about Lokasil vs Nikasil. Perhaps Porsche is just selling off old stock before the demand declines ? For that money why not get the permanent fix - Nickies? The resale value of a rebuild with Lokasil vs Nickies is a litmus test. Certaily the Lokasil from Porsche may appeal to the cost minimizing /flipping approach. I am rebuilding an M96 now. This Porsche 'new deal' would have been unhelpful financially unless I had severe ovality+taper+scoring.Fortunately I did not.

I e-mailed my mechanic to inquire about these engines. My car is about to get an engine rebuild anyway and it doesn't hurt to ask before it gets dropped off. I'll post his response when he gets back to me.

great, yet another inherent flaw in these engines..... and the alusil/nikasil etc - straight out of the e34 V8s... i didnt read every word, but it seems that company believes the block issues are as important as the RMS..

This is what showed up when I searched on Sonnen Porsche website with the part# listed in the 911UK thread.

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While the company can't find anything -- it seems -- it likes about the Porsche engines -- it sells life time maintenance plans to any and all 996/997 Porsche/Boxster owners. http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_9...ance_plan.html If the engines were so bad you would think no one would "insure" them.

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From their terms and conditions "We reserve the right to withdraw cover of an inherent classic flaw or a fault which becomes common place but will notify Customers in advance. We currently continue to cover the classic internal M96/M97 engine internal issues of cylinder bore scoring, IMS bearing failure, etc. and have no intentions of changing this policy at this time but reserve the right to review it." "We may introduce steps as a preventative measure which may have a shared cost implication." Sounds like to me they have found a reliable way to predict an imminent stock IMS bearing failure and they will then recommend their IMS bearing fix to the customer. Don't know what incentives they have to cover the bore scoring though, especially if it's as prevalent as they say. Also, not clear what they mean by covering cylinder bore scoring. Does it mean if they find it, they will re-sleeve the engine?

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If the short block is $4100, I wonder if they will offer a long block and for how much? i don't need and engine but if I did, I still wouldn't need the full intake, alternator, starter, manifolds etc etc but it would be nice to know that I could get the long block (including chains/heads etc) for what? $7000? $8000? The LN Engines, while fantastic, are a fantasy for me at $18K+.

Availability starting 4/1/15?

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From reading Baz's posts and reading Hartech's articles, they believe installing a low temp thermostat will greatly reduce the chances of bore scoring. I'm not sure, but I bet if you go under their "maintenance/coverage" plan I bet the customer has to install it, at the customer's cost, which really isn't that expensive. One thing that I have seen reading their posts and the guide is it's a little contradictory. The guide says it doesn't say it happens often, but you read some of the posts on 911uk, it's not if it's going to happen, it's when, which could be anywhere from 10k miles to 30k miles. From what I have seen, at least with the 997's with the larger IMS bearing, bore scoring is the main culprit for engine failure. Mike

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This company believes a low temp T-stat reduces the chances of bore scoring in a region where elevated temperatures are rare. When was the last time any place in the UK experienced triple digit temperatures? And yet we do not get reports from Porsche owners who reside in the warmer areas of the USA of bore scoring problems. Another company blames the cold temperatures (primarily for cars used in the northern/colder reaches of the USA and in Canada) for engine troubles. It would appear to me that in advising owners to install a low temp T-stat UK owners are going to trade one form of engine trouble for another.

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A crate full engine is about $30-40k from Porsche. I don't think it will be much cheaper even with those accessories taken off.

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My logic on this one is backwards to yours. Bore scoring seems to happen the most from freezing temps from what I've observed. Everyone knows England rarely gets snow so... confused....

If we didn't have the internet feedback loop I wonder how many of us would actually be worrying about this, let alone experiencing the fabled failures. Sort of the grump and gripe syndrome. Part of the price of buying a used car is that you inheirit all the years and miles of wear that go with it. Part of the price of a new car is the warranty that covers all those things. If someone is selling something that makes an engine rebuild cheaper and easier, obviously they are doing it to make money...they aren't monks wandering the earth just to amuse themselves. Time will prove the value of the offer.

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Exactly, and it doesn't get hot either. Mike

The new "affordable price" is for a short block.. about $11,600 (down from $17,000) in Canada.

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Please elaborate How does cold temperatures lead to bore scoring What are these "observations" you refer to Thanks

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Cold temperatures do two things: 1- Increases the enrichment time that the cold engine sees. The system is designed to increase fuel delivery and alter cam timing to help light the catalytic converters off. The extra fuel is solvent which washes the protective layer of oil from the cylinders. 2- The factory cylinder/ piston running clearances are inadequate. The cold engine block, with its cylinders surrounded by cold coolant will expand too slowly during cold operating temperatures. The factory piston has high silicon content and expands rapidly within a few seconds of start up. The piston expands, but the cylinder doesn't and the components operate with inadequate running clearances. The UK issues seem to be aggravated more by fuel. I see a lot of engines from Europe and their scoring is different than what we see here in the states. The scoring isn't as deep and tends to be at a different point of the bore than ours is here.

^ethanol burns at a higher temp the straight gasoline. Think a lot of manufacturers are seeing more and more bore scoring as well, it's just not Porsche. With government's mandating policies to put this crap in our gas so they can make more money off of their gas taxes by increasing the fuel consumption they are wearing and damaging our engines.

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I agree. Bore scoring is a global issue and its effecting many manufacturers, not just Porsche. We currently are developing solutions for AMG engines, Smart and some BMW models. The issue the manufacturers try too solve the issues with new technologies, and they don't take time to prove them in the real world before building the engines.

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Jake, didn't you also mention previously that bore scoring can be impacted at different levels depending on how tight or loose the condition of your motor is in? I figured I'd just throw that out to all the worry warts out there that bought pampered low mileage examples out there and were driving it in extreme cold temps, especially this winter and last winter.

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Yes, wear is a good thing in regard to cold weather operation. A little wear increases the running clearance just enough to sometimes create a margin of error.

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Jake - you are a font of knowledge that I admire and appreciate. Don't you mean to say "The extra fuel is solvent which washes the protective layer of OIL from the cylinders." Again, thank you for your wisdom and sharing.

Yes, made the correction

So, the 1million dollar question is, how do you avoid it, other than not driving it or parking it in a heated garage. Or can you not avoid it? Better oil so it doesn't dilute, something like Motul 5w 40? I have to be honest I didn't drive my car once it hit the upper single digits for lows here in the mid south. Of course, it was snowing and all of that other nasty stuff too, but if it's not going to do that, but just be cold, I'd like to drive it. Cause I like driving this car! Mike

Wouldn't a block heater be sufficient?

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I wish I had that answer.. Have yet to find it. Oil helps nothing if inadequate running clearance is part of the equation.

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I was thinking that, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the information, it's greatly appreciated here! Mike

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Some guys just have a passion for machinery, problem solving and building a better mouse trap. Of course it costs something to keep the lights on...

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That is about the same price I got from my mechanic here in the states.

The info I got from the Porsche Center here is that the crate engine is no longer available from Porsche. If going through Porsche for a rebuild you need to get the short block and then spend about $15K to $20K in labour and parts.