How is the Row M030

Have a 2000 C2. After some track time instructors have mentioned value if updating my 19 year old original suspension. I am thinking of doing the row M030... I know ride height is lower and it�s obviously stiffer but is it too stiff for the street on crap New England roads? Anyone care to take a swag (scientific wild *** guess) regarding percentage of stiffness vs stock? Is it a punishing ride?

I would say the ROW030 rode significantly better than my OE standard suspension at 70k miles. Maybe 10% stiffer? But better damping characteristics negated the stiffer feel to me. Someone probably knows the spring ratings for comparison, I don't. If you plan to continue to track the car, skip the ROW030, and get proper coilovers. They ride fantastic, and perform better at the track. .02

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Thanks for the feedback. ps10 and ohlins are popular far as coil overs, right? However my suspension is kinda creeky going slowly over speed bumps for instance. I don�t know much of anything about suspension components. Would the M030 have components included to freshen up other aspects of the suspension? If I went coil over what other components do I need to replace to make the suspension feel fresh? i like how you describe the better dampening. As long as there is reduced body and better dampening due to a bit stiffer ride the M030 May be a good fit as going to coil over may be overkill for me. I�m running in novice and do around 2-3 DE days a year. Over time would like to get to a solo run group

If I recall correctly, Us M030 is 10 mm lower than stock, ROW M030 is 20 mm lower than stock and x74/x73 are 30 mm lower than stock. I've only had worn out stock, x74 and PSS10, so I don't have any good advice. Like you say, spring rate is what you probably want to look at. I had trouble finding this info last time I looked. The M030 also has stiffer roll bars than stock carerra, which impacts dynamic handling (in a positive way, I run them with my PSS10 setup). Odd suspension noises are not likely to be fixed by just replacing M030 alone, you likely have bushings of some sort on the way out. Hard to say which ones without seeing/hearing/driving/troubleshooting it. I personally think ROW m030 is a great choice for most mixed use drivers (street/light track). So many people use coil overs that really never take advantage of their adjustability.

Got it. Can you use Pss10 after installing M030. I think my plan is have my shop install M030 and replace anything worn while there. Use that for a bit and add coil over as I get better

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Much agreed. And OP, you may want to look at your front lower (coffin) control arms for the creaking. That sound was the beginning of all the suspension issues I was having... Mike

I took off M030 at 28k mi I really liked the ride and handling. Street only. Definitely firmer but not at all harsh. I wanted to lower the car so I went with PSS10s. Wow, I didnt realise the range of adjustability these bring you. Nice. Soft to firm to GT3 hard. Simple to adjust. For the money you cant beat the PSS10s. Now, the track guys will spend your money and the slippery slope can get 5-10k out of your pocket for suspension mods in a hurry. KWs, Ohlins, Elephant bits add up quickly. Stock is good. M030 is better PSS10s very good KW or Ohlins best Price moves up the ladder at each step.

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You can't go wrong with the M030. Definitely take a close look at all the suspension components, especially the front strut mounts, lower control arms and tuning fork arm. Mike

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All those components are separate from what you get when moving to M030, correct? I�ll have my shop look. I�ve mentioned the noise but when teching the car for DE they say everything is fine and I�ve never wanted to throw $ at something when they say not to despite the noise being annoying when going slow over big bumps. Sounds like a frog groan

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Yes, all separate. I don't believe any of the M030 kits came with the upper strut mounts , but I could be wrong. Regardless, all of the suspension components need to be inspected and/or replaced do to age an wear. Edit: My 996 started with the squeaks and groans. Then, developed into clunks, knocks, harshness and wandering on the highway. I ended up replacing my worn-out struts/absorbers with coilovers (which included the top mounts) and the lower 'coffin' arms and front 'tuning' fork arms. This solved my suspension issues. Mike

Wow... My first rec. would be to do a forum search here. You could also do a Google search - in which case you'll get pointed to many of the same threads. There are lots of discussions covering your questions in many ways, with many different opinions, parts recommendations, and DIY instructions and photo's. As suggested above, there are many suspension components not included in the ROW M030 kit (top mounts, control arms, bushings etc...) that will have strong effects on the overall suspension - especially regarding noises. *One of the things that isn't often mentioned, is that the M030 (as well as other stock Porsche suspensions) are made up of Bilstein components (springs, shocks & struts). I believe the shocks and struts in the H&R coil-overs use Bilstein components. Anyway, before you make any decisions on what you "want" do some research and reading - while it may not be the expedient thing to do, you'll be able to make an informed buying decision with little to no buyers remorse. Good luck

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Thanks for the feedback

Here's what is in the ROW M030 kit. I bought some other suspension parts for "while i was in there". Several threads on here discuss spring rates for ROW M030. . . .

https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...0&autoModClar= Thanks. Also looking at something like this and sway bars. Will probably need to replace bushings. Gonna consult with my shop and go from there. The combos are endless. At the end of the day I�ll pull the trigger on something. Anything is going to be better than 19 year old stock suspension

M030 comes with new front/rear anti-sway bars and their associated bushings. You reuse stock mounts and bump stops. If you go with an M030 setup check your existing bump stops before you start work on the car, odds are you'll need to replace at least one of them (don't ask me how I know this). I have an M030 setup on my '02 cabriolet, vast majority of time used on the street. The change made a world of difference especially at highway (cough, cough) speeds -- at times the front end was very light with the stock US suspension; the M030 made that issue completely disappear. I easily do 500+ mile/day road trips comfortably. I would not hesitate to do it again.

I have the factory x74 suspension with GT3 sways f&r. Was a little stiff when I was in NJ, but here in Florida it is just fine.

I installed a new ROW M030 kit from Carnewal as well as some RSS bits to replace some worn 115k mile arms... more to come as needed. im completely satisfied! Not too low, not too stiff. Im running 17� factory wheels and it handles well. If I were to do it again? The extra money I spent on RSS stuff, since I dont track the car, i could have replaced ALL the arms etc and had some cash left over lol live and learn. No regrets

Gonna go with koni sport dampers and eibach Springs and new sway bars.. Will replace worn bushings and other components as necessary. Looking forward to refreshing my 19 year old suspension!

Any update on the install?

Just dropped the car off today. Went with these https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...0&autoModClar= And eibach sway bars. Gonna look at bushings etc and refresh what is needed. Hopefully have her out for a session after all the work is done. As I get faster I�ll probably do a deep sump and x51 baffles. It. Never. Ends.

Looking forward to hearing about it. I'm looking hard at the same package or the H&R street performance coilovers and new sway bars.

Picked up my car last night. So i ended up going with the koni yellow and eibach lowering springs. New oem motor mounts as well. Definitely improved driving characteristics. Shop set them up for mixed street DE so not super soft nor too harsh. I noticed considerably less/ no body roll on turning (street driving) and nose diving on braking and squatting on acceleration. Handles bumps a bit better with some better damping. My old shocks were toast with 49k miles on the car. Creaking noise is gone. If the ride quality ever deteriorates I�ll replace bushes but for now they said they were good.

Any ride height pics to compare to ROW M030?

About a 1 inch drop. I�ll get some pics and try to find some old ones to show the difference between old stock and new. I think M030 drops around .75 inches so this may be slightly more of a drop. Will post when I can

Did you experience less body roll and better turn in? I just refreshed my ENTIRE suspension on my 2002 Cabriolet, but I'm not happy with the roll and lack of precision on turn in. Feels like the wheel doesnt even give enough force or feedback (I did end up going with Koni Advances for the shocks). considering switching out my springs for ROW m030s to give a more planted / on rails feel... or so i hope.

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When you say "refreshed" was it a straight up replacment of the old parts? If you want planted/on rails then yes, different springs and sway bars will help. You don't need everything though. If you want RoW M030 just get the springs and sway bars. Your Konis will work just fine with that setup.

It just cost me a ****load for the corner balance/alignment. I have to do it all again if I replace the springs with ROW M030. My goal is not lowering. MY goal is tighter turn in and less roll. Am I better doing aftermarket sways (H&R or EIBACH) or ROW M030 SPRINGS (not with sways. Keeping stock sways)?

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I agree on not lowering a 996 street car. Only 2 reasons I can see for lowering a street 911 car. 1) want to be a racer 'poser' with the lowered look that fills out the wheel wells and slams the car. Ya it does look good. but how good is it when you rip off the front lip, or gouge the oil sump(or worse) in a forgetful moment when incorrectly entering a parking lot or driveway entrance/exit... Up to you, its a personal choice. 2) You are a competitive racer on the track. And need want the most you can pull and the least amount of drag, for a competitive edge. Yup lower it for sure. I mean, lets face it, our 911 are probably straight out the factory, set to USA/ROW specs, the best handling sports car in the world. Ya, might be able to argue a few other sports cars are right there with it, but few (if any) give us the 'feel of a 911. IMO, for our 20+ year old cars, instead of going right to lower springs/coil overs for the road, maybe money is better spent on bringing our 20 yo cars back to oem specs. All the arms/bushings/joints/struts/shocks/springs/tie rods/racks?/mounts/cvj/stops/etc... are tired at a 996's age. Once all suspension is renewed correctly with quality parts, and a detailed correctly done alignment, then its time to access if you need more. Heavier Roll bars will control roll/turn in better, at the cost of some ride comfort, but not as much as stiff struts/coil overs with less suspension travel. Now this is just my opinion. I've owned/driven so many different sports cars over the decades can't stress the point enough, our cars right out of the factory handle phenomenally well for the street and don't need anything more on the road. The Porsche engineers figured out this suspension compromise perfectly. If trying to fill out the wheel wheels, the right size wheel/tire with the right offset will go a long way towards that without lowering. If one must lower their car, don't go more than ROW for the street. Can't even remember how many I've spoke with that have lowered their cars, maybe for years then decided to go back to stock ride height.

My car has the M030 and I�m doing a Ohlins R&T but keeping the M030 sways. My spec will be GT3 numbers which is arguably the best handling 996, with that said I rode in a 40th Anniversary with the ROW springs and it was very smooth. You cant go wrong when upgrading the sway, I�d look at Tarett�s sways if you want to add that rigidity.

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+1 for getting everything else "right" before going with lowering springs etc. I've recently fitted Ohlins R&T with self chosen custom spring rates (waaay softer than the nonsense Ohlins specified, including the softer option) to my otherwise stock (suspension wise) 65K mile 2002 C2. Whilst previously it didn't handle particularly well, and it's ride was "unyeilding", it was completely knock and rattle free. When I fitted the Ohlins I replaced the front and rear top mounts (with OE or OE manufactured parts) drop links (TRW) and front coffin arms Eibach adjustable). annoyingly what was previously a silent car then had a plethora of rattles and knocks, which I'm still working through several weeks later. I put this down to the Ohlins being set (by me) considerably lower than the stock suspension, the majority of which the links, bushes and balljoints had been on there for 65k miles and 22 years, and objected to being asked to all of a sudden run some 35-40mm lower than it had the rest of its life ... I've had to replace all four tuning forks and the rear coffin arms, and later this week I'll be fitting steering rack inner "drumsticks" (TRW) and steering rack outer tie rods (TRW) which will hopefully return the car/it's suspension to rude health and complete silence. Despite the irritation of the various suspension components now rattling and knocking, the Ohlins have been absolutely transformational, and for the first time since buying the car some 14 months ago, it finally actually drives like a 911, but it also rides superbly, turns in like a go-kart and deals with poorly surfaced roads with real aplomb. It's also quieter and has less rolling resistance.

How do you think I'll do with just the springs? The porsche sways are expensive. Was just thinking of staying with stock, and then if needed going with something like eibach/hr

That will entirely depend on the condition of the rest of the suspension components, in my experience. Personally I’m not a fan of lowering springs, it’s far better to fit matched springs and dampers. But if the budget won’t stretch to them, I'd make sure the rest of your suspension is in rude health before going with just lowering springs. Check on the availability of the Eibach sway bars too, as they’re now NLA in the UK/Europe.