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YOUR RESEARCHHey 996.2 Owners, Now is Your Chance
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Check of the boxes
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The .2 I bought checked all of the boxes after researching it.
Leading evidence: 'Check of the boxes' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'coolest looking 911 ever' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check boxes' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I don't have any official numbers but the x51 was on all 40th Jahre cars (1963 of them) and the X50 was on all Turbo S cars ( about 1600 of them) plus any that checked the x51 or x50 box when ordering...
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I can see why not many dealer installed cars are out there.
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Yes, X51 was a factory option and also a dealer installed option...
Install option will show engine # m96/03 xxxxxxxxxs
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One way to tell is that the factory option engine will show the eng# as M96/03Sxxxxxxxxx while the dealer installed option will show engine # M96/03 xxxxxxxxxS ...The "S" is stamped at the end of the engine # by the installing Technician...
Check option sticker or documents, or are doing work
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Suggestion
The X51 was easier to recognize from the aluminum intake that really catches your eye, the X50 option doesn't stick out so you don't know its there unless you check the option sticker or documents, or are doing work on the system in particular..
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I don't have any official numbers but the x51 was on all 40th Jahre cars (1963 of them) and the X50 was on all Turbo S cars ( about 1600 of them) plus any that checked the x51 or x50 box when ordering...
Install option will show engine # m96/03 xxxxxxxxxs
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One way to tell is that the factory option engine will show the eng# as M96/03Sxxxxxxxxx while the dealer installed option will show engine # M96/03 xxxxxxxxxS ...The "S" is stamped at the end of the engine # by the installing Technician...
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Suggestion
also I think the very early .1 were partially hand built and definitely on the same production lines as the 993 so quality was better especially for a generation change from air to water cooled
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Suggestion · Original poster
Attached is a video where he compares the two different generations of the 996 with an explanation of the changes made to the 996.2, which is a common occurrence with all next gen Porsches.
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121 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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No difference at all other than where the "S" is stamped on the engine case, and the option sticker.....
Hey 996.2 owners, we have alot of 996.1 threads, in particular 99 threads. No question they are great cars. But it's about time we give the 996.2 its day in the sun and correct some of the misleading information that bubbles up on RL.
The car is not only an awesome car, but its attributes and improvements may be the least understood of all 911s. What say you? Why the 996.2?
2005 C4S here. Glove box door. Bigger tires/wheels. More pleasing headlights. More powerful engine. Corners like it is on rails.
Disclaimer: Never driven nor been in a -1. I'm sure they are good cars.
Dozens and dozens of small improvements. Real cup holders, more torquey engine (feels faster in the mid range), simpler chain design, tensioner improvements, larger engine, more power, better steering wheel (3-spoke), upgraded DME (from 5.x to 7.x), camshaft timing improvements with greater variability, oil pump improvements, oil return delivery improvements, spark plug tube improvements.
And are there more color combo options?
And of course, the C4S wide body looks sooo good. Turbo-look options.
I graduated high school in 2002 and it's purely an emotional connection I had to the Mk2 cars. With the wisdom of a 16 year old I dismissed the 996.1 because it looked like a Boxster and when the 996.2 came out I thought "this is the fix." - and I've always wanted a 996.2 since then. Never even shopped for a Mk 1. This is one of those unquantifiable needs that probably every single one of us have, and is one of the magical things about Porsche ownership. All very emotional decisions, but all very different decisions.
Last month, I sold my C2 996 after 10 years of ownership. I bought a week after a C2 992-2 2003 model. This car is amazing! More torque, much faster car! My only concern was the trims that I sanded and repainted. I also added a Bluetooth module to the Becker radio and did the full oil and filter maintenance. I love this car!
I didn't look at a .1. The .2 I bought checked all of the boxes after researching it. It was a quantum leap in improvement from my air-cooled SC (1980) and it was cheap to buy (at the time) for all the reasons mentioned, so I jumped on it.
I've never looked back
And don't forget the Le Mans-winning headlights!!!!!!!!
Oh, wait a minute, wrong thread
Just to not be a jerk, here's one -- the 996.2 weighs only 58 lbs more than a 996.1 (2959 vs 2901 lbs), but has 24 more hp (320 vs 296) -- so the power-to-weight ratio is better (9.25 lbs/hp for 996.2 vs 9.8 lbs/hp for the 996.1)
I owned a '00 C2 for three years, and have now replaced it with a '02 TT. The interior is definitely better, feels better put together, nicer switches and stalks and previously I didn't have full leather which makes a difference. Nice to have a glove box and overall it seems more solid.
The driving experience is very different -- the C2 was more playful, slightly nicer steering, but the engine in the Turbo more than makes up for it.
I have a slight preference for the 996.1 headlights, but with both the C4S and the Turbo, the new headlights work well.
For me, it’s the juicy butt of the .2 wide body C4S. The big hips, the wide heckblende, smooth rear quarters, turbo nose, naturally aspirated purr… I think it’s much prettier than the 997 or anything later, and more refined than anything earlier.
I truly like both the .1 and the .2. When I was shopping for one, I was hoping for a .2 mainly for the many aforementioned mechanical advancements and refinements aiding in better performance and reliability. That said, I would have gladly bought a .1 that checked all the boxes. And while it's not that I don't like the .1 headlights, I do like the .2 headlights better. I don't like it when a 911 is coming at me, only to realize it's a Boxter.
Every model, be that 996, 997, .1, .2 has it's quirks and issues but typically every new version Porsche release has had some improvements to make that version better than the one before. In one way or another. I much prefer the .2 and I think the headlights are aging very well. Also, the rear quarter panel look is one of the best ever. I've used mine as my only car for last 2 years with zero regrets. I've probably racked up more miles from joy driving than any other type of drives. Lot's of talk about all the modes of failure but it goes to show that if the cars are DRIVEN and MAINTAINED they will go the distance and put many others to shame. May I present exhibit A:
@911user
with his 40AE.
494,000 original miles on untouched engine. I rest my case.
The 996.1 aero kit does look damn good. But so does the 996.2 aero as well. Interesting how they make the different generations look night and day different even though the base cars look about the same.
.2 because .1 looks like a Boxster.
I kid of course... Never drove the .1, but my newly built 3.8 .2 is a blast and looks great to me. Plus I prefer having the glovebox and neat cup holders. Improved aero and stiffness is icing on the cake.
I should also mention my particular car has no nannies... Only ABS. Love it
When I started looking for a 911 to buy back in 2002, I first drove a black on black 996.1 C4. Can't remember the year. The car was beautiful and handled extremely well. Just an all around cool car. I really wanted to buy it but didn't know much about the difference between the 996, 993 and 964, nor did I know at the time that there was a 996.2. So I decided to slow down and start to learn a bit about them by driving them amd reading about them.
So then I drove a 993 and 964 and learned that they each had a completely different feel and characteristics when driving. Same can be said for the interior and exterior looks. Not better or worse, but just a different.
Then I saw a seal grey 996.2 driving around town and thought it was the coolest looking 911 ever. Loved the headlights and the overall exterior design just flowed. Seemed at the time to me and still does that Porsche figured out how to make a classic cool looking 911 where the body flowed and all the panels, contours and angles just seemed right. Not to mention I loved the Seal Grey paint because at the time, it was a new color in the car world. Nobody was using it.
A few months passed and in december of 2002 I got a call from the local porsche dealer to come in and see a 6 month old seal grey 996.2. After test driving it, I bought it and would gladly buy it all over again. No question, my personal preference leaned towards the looks of the 996.2, especially the headlights, but in no way does my preference take away from the classic good looks of the 996.1.
Just a matter of your preference for blondes or brunettes. As long as they have personality and smarts, you can't go wrong with either.
Here is a picture of my wife driving my 996.2 during a PCA DE day at Blackhawk Farms Raceway. I just get fired up every time I see the unique 996.2 front end. My wife is a brunette by the way.
Yep, in 2002 when i bought mine, there was no such thing as a 996.2 C4S or 996.2 GT3. I was blown away when both were released. Two different incrediably cool looks that turned heads not only back in the day but maybe even more so today.
I don't hear this mentioned very often but the one thing I like quite a bit on the C4S are the taillights. Not even necessarily the center bar but the overall size and shape of the taillights. They are slightly bigger than the C2 ones and look really good on the rear end.
Never noticed that. I'll be at a PCA event this weekend and take a look. In addition to the widebody, I always thought the slotted rear bumper was pretty cool.
Here is an article from Excellence Magazine with a review of the 996.2 when it first came out. It describes what changed from the 996.1 and so highlights the differences.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post15174035
And here is a summary from the article, which I've copied and pasted below, since it probably should be part of this thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post15173972
Personally I am really glad I went the extra mile at the time I was shopping and went for the C4S.
======================================================================== =========================
Ok, I found a magazine article about this, always wanted to write the summary for the forum.. So here is the list, with some duplication of what people wrote above:
3.6 liter engine: with variable CAM lift, not only variable CAM timing like the Mk1. Stroke increased from 78mm to 82.8 mm. Torque increased by 15 ft/lbs. and comes at 350 RPM lower. Crank, conn rods, and pistons are all different. Oiling system improved for more flow.
Transmission: different, uses more durable alloy steel for the gears, drive shaft uses 3 bearings instead of 2, differential now has 4 bevel gears.
Completely redesigned exhaust system (to make it sound more like a Porsche). Has 40 millibars less back pressure. Triple chamber muffler.
Lower front fascia (bumper cover) has larger air intakes (and it looks different). Improvements reduced lift at the front end by 25%. Changes to improve cooling included a different (reconfigured) front trunk lid, front fender openings for air outlet. This also improved under chassis air circulation with 20% improvement in transmissionc cooling.
Rear valance (bumper cover) redesigned. With front and read mods, rear axle lift reduced by 40%.
Suspension spring rates, shock valving, and contact patches all revised for increased performance and because the Mk2 has a slightly higher curb weight (49 lbs).
Body: "beefy new high tensile steel tubes" used for the Cab on the windshield and both Cab and Coupe doors for safety. The Mk2 Cab is 25% stiffer than and the Mk2 Coupe is 50% stiffer.
The wheels are 9% to 21% lighter. New tire choices including putting wider rubber on the contact patch (20 mm, or close to an inch).
The rear drive coupe does 0-62 in 5 seconds vs the Mk1 at 5.2 seconds.
Fuel mileage improved by 1 MPG because of the VarioCam Plus and other engine improvements.
Turbo headlights: not only for looks, but they are brighter with H7 bulbs
New double cup holder.
Electronic controls for hood / trunk vs cables on Mk1.
On board computer is standard on all models vs optional for Mk1. The LCD display below the tach is higher resolution and brighter.
Cab has glass in the rear window (with heater) vs the previous plastic, but smaller and thus less visibility.
Glove box added.
Bose sound system and options are new.
Price increases of $1,400 (coupe), $1,600 (cab) $1,700 (c4)
Here is the article for those who would like to see the source and interesting written explanations:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post15174035
Other:
The Targa becomes available.
The C4S becomes available.
The Mk2 Tiptronic cannot be removed alone. It requires both the engine and trans to be removed before separating them.
The 40th Anniversary edition is launched in 2004.
^^^This needs to be unpacked!
Thanks 911 Synchro. Most don't know about the second generation engine enhancements and should. I have found the engine to be incredibly durable and strong on and off the track. In particular, it's powerband with a strong pull from 3500 to 6500 makes it a pleasure to drive.
Not sure if already mentioned but the 996.2 has the variocam actuators that are much, much easier to replace should one go bad. Also bigger fan of the .2 headlights and 3-spoke wheel. Not to mention the 3.6
I don't find it that big of a deal at all. It happened to me once. I carry a small jump start battery that fits in the glove box easily. I opened the door with a key, connected the battery to the terminal at the fuse box location and popped the frunk open and jump started the car from the battery. 5 minute ordeal at most?
I don't know, carrying around a jump start battery sounds like a bit of a pain to me. That said, not having remote electronic frunk release on the (early) 996.1 is a bit of an inconvenience also (you need to open the door, pull the lever, close the door, then open the frunk
). The smart solution would have been for Porsche to leave it cable actuated inside the car and to just add an electronic remote release to supplement it , that way the frunk could be opened remotely with the key with no dead battery concerns.
But with .2s you can't you pop the frunk with the key/remote? As someone who uses my frunk nearly every drive, I think the convenience of that would outweigh the inconvenience of a dead battery, especially when jumping it isn't too difficult and rerouting the emergency cable is also quite easy. It can be a real pain to have to open the door and pull the lever to open the frunk, especially if parking is tight and/or you have your hands full.
No doubt, it's a bit of a pita. I park mine in the garage with the frunk open but laying in a closed position. Makes it easy to access just in case. If I used the car year round as a daily driver, no doubt I would make sure the battery was in good shape. But then again, if it was a daily driver, pretty good chance the battery is charged anyways. Yep. I would agree, it is a silly design.
Not sure how big your jump start battery is but mine is about the size of two large iPhones stacked. Also, my key can unlock the frunk. I use it all the time. We all also have the emergency release wire that I have routed for easy access. I think this goes hand in hand with cable throttle for .1 and e-gas for our cars
These things have a frunk?
My C4S doesn't...well not for anything bigger than a bread box(for those of you old enough to know what a bread box is/was.)🙄
With my spare out, I've fit 4 bags of mulch in the frunk. It's basically a farm vehicle. Received a series of thumbs up and some blank confused stares in the parking lot
Also easily fits a typical carry on suitcase.
I know that C4s have a slightly smaller frunk, but mine holds a lot. I have 2 very large amps, my spare, tool kit, oil, roll of paper towels, and rain jacket that always stay in there and I have on several occasions fit 2 full duffle bags and a backpack on top of everything else.
If you have a dead battery in a 996.1 with the frunk, even though it has a cable, if the frunk was locked when your battery died, the cable mechanism still won�t open the frunk because of the lock. You�d have to pull the emergency release cable to get in.
So the 996.1 doesn�t have an advantage to me in this regard.
And a dead battery is a dead car no matter the version, so I do carry a small portable jump battery for any car I drive. Better than jumper cables.
Absolutely, this. Feel of a convertible, retains the beautiful lines as intended. Just bought this last week. 2003. 996 Targa 69,000 miles Service records in Carfax didn't notate the IMS being done. Stole it from a Ford dealership. Found the LN Engineering sticker post purchase.
To be the DD
I sought out an early build 1999 because I like all the quirky things that comes with those (hopefully arriving this Thursday), but man I love the Targa's and this one looks amazing. The interior looks so subtle and new!
Many of you like me have followed Lee Sibley at Total 911 magazine as well as on his YouTube channel. As you probably know, he has a 996.1 that he has documented over the years.
Attached is a video where he compares the two different generations of the 996 with an explanation of the changes made to the 996.2, which is a common occurrence with all next gen Porsches.
He makes an important point on both which is both generations are great cars but it comes down to your preference. Quite frankly, anyone of us would be lucky to have a well cared for 996 from either generation. IMHO, the 996 is that incredible of a car.
You Tube
Just saw a white 2003 Targa yesterday at a local PCA event. The owner just bought it, but he is not new to Porsche after owning and racing vintage 911s. He has decided to go more modern with a 996 targa. Its an incredible looking car that looked brand new. He showed me how cool it was to lift the hatch and drop his stuff in the back. Hopefully we see him on RL soon with pictures of his car and stories.
Agreed. The rear hatch makes the 996 much more livable. I got a giant TV in the car from Best Buy last year as an example. It�s one of Porsches best design elements of all time IMO.
Interesting production numbers by year and model straight from Adrian Streather's book, Porsche 996 The Essential Companion. You can slice and dice the data many different ways and draw your conclusions. Porsche certainly diversified their MK2 production into many different model types in relation to MK1 production. Will this create a "scarcity" factor with a number of 996.2 models? Dunno. But it is good to know.
I like the 3.6 and re-designed front end of the 996.2, Ironically now having one I do appreciate the 996.1 a lot more. Mine came with a updated suspension and after only owning it for about 3 months every time I get in it I don't want the drive to end!
Interesting - I thought the 996.2 only had the wide body Carrara 4S. The regular 4 was produced up until 2004. Did they not make it to the US for the .2 generation?
Good question. Don't know, but I bet someone does. I'll take a look at the Essential Companion and see if it has the details. We can update the grid with 996.1 and 996.2 versions if needed for more definition.
Tell me more about this GT3-R!
Also, Ted who runs the 40AE registry, has done an awesome job tracking down as many cars as humanly possible, many of which are no longer on the roads. We have a theory that not all 1963 cars might have been produced and that in some cases Porsche allowed customers to pick their numbers. This will mean that they were not produced in a number sequence. As an example, there is a few cars with the number 8 in the car's number located in Hong Kong or China where 8 is recognized as a lucky number.
Here�s a question: can you 996.2 owners select HVAC temperature settings of 60, 61, 62, or 63 degrees Fahrenheit? I can�t. On my 99, I can set anywhere from 64-90, but anything below 64 is �low.�
Many folks like to discuss the fried egg headlights as being Le Man's winning Porsche GT1 headlights.
But many dont know that the 996.2 and its headlights did actually win the 2005 Le Man's race in the GT2 class with Alex Job Racing in a 996 GT3-RSR driven by Mike Rockenfeller, Mark Lieb and Leo Hindery.
Love the 996.2 headkights!
Below is a link to pictures of the car. They are copy right protected so the best i can do is a link to the source.
https://www.motorsportimages.com/pho...02&team_id=616
Thanks Work-Truck. Now every 996.2 owner can say with factual confidence they have the same headlights as the 996.2 that won Leman in 2005.
But I gotta say that I am not a fan of the front bumper. But my guess is they cared more about race winning function than form.
Here is another bit of info that you may find of interest with the 996.2. Alex Job Racing helped to develop the sequential shifter for the 996. No paddle shifters at the time. Just a long shifter that looked like the CAE shifter that you move forward or backward.
Attached is a video of a driver at Road America in 997 cup car. Couldnt find a video with a 996 that you could see the shifting. While its an old video, its a good one. Unfortunately there was an accident at Canada Corner at the end if the video. You can see the speeds back in the day. Today's cup cars are about 8-10 seconds a lap faster. Crazy fun track and crazy silly fast.
You Tube
2004 C4S owner. The 996.2 is my favorite 911 design. It was too far ahead of its time when debuted, and it has aged so well and grown into itself. It is what the 992 should have been. Smoothed out in all the right places and could be rebuilt with contemporary material and look like a 2022 on the showroom floor.
It is that perfect mix of emerging tech in autos - catapulted with PCCM+ - AND analogue feel. Still bolts and parts and devoid of intrusive nannies. My only other Porsche was a 2006 987.1 S and for me, this era is the sweet spot for the "shared" lines.
Also this is the first car I've owned that makes me actively want to go out and just drive in all weather. I get more excited about driving this the worse the weather is. It just does everything so well.
Hi GC996!
Thanks for the intro. It was great to see you again at the PCA event. Our '03 Targa is a fascinating car. After many, many years of ownership of a '64 356 SC and a '69 911, this thing has all the modern features that they did not have, like air-conditioning and heat. And a whole bunch of nannies. Although the engine sound of the Targa is exhilarating, one thing that the 996 can't duplicate is the air-cooled howl at full throttle. PSM is impressive but would have prevented those thrilling four-wheel drifts through the carousel at Road America. And yes, the rear hatch is a cool addition. Who'd a thunk it on a 911?
Welcome to the club Ed! Car looks great!
If you guys want to learn how to drive a car, talk to Ed. He passed more modern cars with 200+ more HP in his 69 911 like they were in reverse. I learned about the art of carrying momentum watching him on the track.
Interesting that coupe production basically fell off a cliff after 1999...looks like Porsche adopted model diversification (and subsequently higher profit margins) hard from 2000 onward. By any measurement, cab's outweighted coupe production by a long shot over the 996 model series!
[/QUOTE]
Had a 83 944 and a 86 944 Turbo back in the day. Hatch backs where great until you got rear ended. Both of mine shattered, once hardly a tap and it busted out. The other time a Schneider semi thought he could brake just as fast as us when a traffic cone was being passed around on the tollway.
Car did its job, looked like an accordion but still some space in the backseat and front seat space was intact.
For the 996.1 series, I have heard approx. 1500 were factory equipped with the X51 package. Obviously all 40AE cars had it as well...but beyond that I haven't got a clue. Supposedly there is a clandestine copy of the Porsche database out there that select people seem to have access to, but not sure how old it is (could be pre-996 data) or how one would access it.
If you look at just Carreras then yes, but this is how I would look at Coupe production. Just something I whipped up real quick, but thought y'all might be interested in seeing it broken down by body type alone.
Also, it is a damn shame that more Turbo S cabs sold than coupes...
Yes, I should have specified Carrera (C2) production in my original post. The name of the game was "upsell" so obviously C2 production would suffer as they continually introduced "premium" variants.
Yeah, x51 non AE numbers and RSR numbers are two things I have been looking for. I have the first version of the Essential Companion. Don't know if these numbers were added in later versions. If anyone knows, please post the info. We can get it in the spreadsheet. Bottom line is that while there were many 996s sold, it was a diverse list of variants. Not alot of any one version available.
Absolutely. Than the next question is if it was factory installed or dealer installed after purchase. I have only ever seen and ridden in a 2002 C2 with the X51 and can't remember if it was factory or dealer installed. It could definitely pull much faster on the track than mine on a straight. The question we all asked was if it was worth the cost of going to the dealer and getting it installed. None of us did it. Then FVD came up with their version of the X51 package which was slightly cheaper than oem, which they still sell as a package today.
Yeah, the dealer installed X51 package was a humongous expenditure, even by today's standards at something like $25k. The factory option was not cheap, but at $14k, it was a lot more palatable. Whomever originally purchased my car went all out, getting it into or close to turbo money at the time. It is a 2003 C4 Cab that had an original sticker price of $134,000. Once I realized what I had, I was curious how many X51 factory optioned cars there were in the 996 through all model years but could not find any info.
I have wondered if the X51 was really a dealer installed option. There are quite a few pieces that went into it. Were dealers really putting on the X51 heads, headers and flashing X51 ECU maps, all at the dealership? I figured this was all put together at the factory when the car was being built according to the options sheet.
Yes, X51 was a factory option and also a dealer installed option...
One way to tell is that the factory option engine will show the eng# as M96/03Sxxxxxxxxx while the dealer installed option will show engine # M96/03 xxxxxxxxxS ...The "S" is stamped at the end of the engine # by the installing Technician...
Yes I was there !!
I can say for sure that there were not very many X51 installed "after the fact" though as mentioned the cost was a LOT more than Factory option ...
It was offered to appease customers who would see a car they liked on the lot but it didn't have X51 ... they would inquire as to IF/how much/could it be installed... but after they got the cost most of them said nevermind...
Same with the Cayenne PCM/Navigation...people would see a Cayenne on the lot they wanted but with a standard radio ...would ask if PCM/Navigation could be installed, the answer was YES .. at a cost of 5k..lol ..Most would then say nevermind...lol
and the $11k price difference :-D
I can see why not many dealer installed cars are out there. It was an expensive option in the day for the gains, although it did provide other benefits than just the end HP and TQ numbers, such as the improved oil pan as an example. Do you have any idea if the X50 on the turbo was any more or less rare than the X51?
I don't have any official numbers but the x51 was on all 40th Jahre cars (1963 of them) and the X50 was on all Turbo S cars ( about 1600 of them) plus any that checked the x51 or x50 box when ordering...
The X51 was easier to recognize from the aluminum intake that really catches your eye, the X50 option doesn't stick out so you don't know its there unless you check the option sticker or documents, or are doing work on the system in particular..
But just going from the cars I have seen come through the shop and gut instinct I would say the X50 is slightly less common...
The X50 Powerkit option was a fairly frequently ticked option box here in the UK. But the conversion was nothing like as invasive as the X51 kit fitted to the N/A cars. Basically different turbos, intercoolers, exhaust and ECU map. I�m not aware of it ever being dealer fitted.
Thanks, I was never really sure what was a part of the X50 package. Definitely sound like less invasive of a change, but I am guessing results in a much bigger increase than X51 offers.
You know, one of the things I think about when considering the 996.1 vs the 996.2 is the old saying or the old guideline: Never buy the first year of a brand new car model. That was one of my father's principles. and I can recall that often the first year of new car model was full of bugs and things that didn't work right (at least in the 60s and 70s). And then later years of that model were higher quality.
But I don't think we've seen that in the 996. The .1 versions don't seem to be particularly more buggy, or poorer engineering, or poorer production, or in any way that makes them somehow worse than the rest. Yes there is a list of improvements on the .2, but these seem to be feature upgrades or evolutionary improvements in the usual Porsche tradition. Maybe the one exception if the glove box, when we might consider a "correction" in the .2 model. But mainly this "first year" principle applies to engineering or production failures, which I think we don't see in the '98, or '99 996.1.
What do you guys think, perhaps this "first year" avoidance is an obsolete concept given today's much more accurate engineering and production capabilities for all car brands.
First and last years tend to bring in more money
also I think the very early .1 were partially hand built and definitely on the same production lines as the 993 so quality was better especially for a generation change from air to water cooled
I heard the same growing up. But I have not seen anything that suggests this to be the case with the 996. If anything, the car has been extremely consistent accross the board. May be an obsolete concept today.
It just doesn't apply to our cars. The 1999 996 was not the first model year of the 911 (That feels like a stupidly obvious thing to say.)
Alot of design and know-how transitioned from the 993, and as was said, they were made on the same production line for a while. And while 993 to 996 was the biggest change, it wasn't their first 911. However what was different, the M96 engine, did have it's obvious issues.
Even the 997 borrows things from the 996.2, and so no 911 is a brand new model year.
We'll, except the 1963 model year. Don't buy one of those; wouldn't want to deal with first-model-year issues!! /s
(But how much did the 1963 911 borrow from the 356? ...which borrowed from the 1930s beetle. Okay, Don't buy a 1930s VW Beetle. First-model-year issues and all ...)
As a general rule of thumb, first iterations of any new design tend to be more problematic. Although, modern design and manufacturing techniques are reducing that, nevertheless, today's vehicles are complicated things.
However, to your point, he 996 motors clearly have been consistent through the model years right up through the 997.
From the GT3 perspective, the 991.1 had their newly designed motors replaced and subsequently corrected in the 991.2.
Jd the 996 is a new design on a 911
the transition from air to water cooled is substantial as they have gone as far as they could on air cooling
many firsts on the 996 for a production run and I’m glad the 996 doesn’t have as many maladies as other first year production
I showed it to 4 guys and one woman. Of the 4 guys only 1 got it. They were all non Porsche types.
The woman immediately burst into laughter. I can't imagine what she was thinking.......
