FSI Stage I - Now what?

The engine from my �99 C4 Cab, build date 10/98, was safely delivered to FSI on 1/28 for its transformation from M96 to FSI Stage I. The work is scheduled to be completed by 6/30/ 2021. This is an elective build for my own peace of mind. I opted for a stage I rebuild as I didn�t intend to track the car nor participate in any DE. I added a couple of goodies to my build; piston upgrade, higher level engine balancing, and high performance ignition coils I already bought the UAOS and will have that installed when the engine is returned. A little background� I�d done a lot of research prior to purchase and settled on the 1999 due to its resistance to some of the more common problems, e.g. IMS failure and bore scoring. I checked out a couple of 996s in the marketplace, even arranged for a cousin check out a car in central Connecticut. Finally found a 1999 996 that ticked enough boxes; a low mileage, 1 owner, manual transmission, convertible with all service records. Everything checked out with the car. So, in July 2018, I became the owner of a 1999 C4 Cabriolet, build date 10/98. The original owners, 2 brothers from CT, put 26,410 miles on the car. It�s a lightly optioned 6MT w/18� Turbo Twist wheels and power seats. The previous owners replaced the audio system; Canton speakers, MTX subwoofer, McIntosh 5-channel amp, and Alpine head unit. A K40 RADAR detector was also added. I have all service records from new. The following items have been addressed: PO replaced ignition switch @~15K miles PO replaced secondary air valves and switch @~16K miles PO replaced fuel pump @~17K miles PO replaced MAF @~18K miles PO replaced clutch and clutch slave cylinder @~21K miles Replaced ignition switch Replaced coolant expansion tank Replaced brake booster, brake master cylinder, brake light switch Major service performed @27K miles Upgrades that I�ve performed are: Replaced the Alpine head unit with a Pioneer unit Cleaned up and reattached front tweeter/mid-range speakers and crossovers Reconfigured the climate control unit to the bottom of the center console Replaced the cigarette lighter with a USB port and moved the 12V outlet to the passenger footwell. Installed 1-1/4� receiver hitch for bikes & small cargo carrier. I�ve had no serious problems in the 2 years and 9K smiles of driving! The car is just a joy to drive! My question is �what next?� I�ve asked Rob at IMSWerks to look into a number of things since he�s got the car at the moment. Engine mounts ? Transmission mounts ? Suspension - only 35K miles but 21 year old rubber Cooling - 20 year old hoses though Jake says Porsche got these right Braking - big rotor kit? I may need to get the brakes done soon anyway.

Sounds like since you have the engine sorted out that suspension and mounts would be a good place to invest in.

Replacing old rubber is never a bad idea, especially if the car was driven year round in wintry conditions. I think bigger brakes would be a waste of money if you don't plan to do any track or DE days. If needed, replace with OEM size rotors, do pads and fresh fluids and you should be more than fine. With that said, many people successfully track their stock M9X cars while doing all the proper maintenance so I can't imagine FSI Stage 1 not being able to handle a track day or a DE class. I'm not talking about tracking the car on a regular basis and chasing lap times but a DE class and a track day should give you a much better appreciation for the car

FSI reconstructed engine...your best automobile decision ever! If you have no info on engine mounts having been replaced then do that. Transmission mounts: inspect and renew if necessary. Suspension: A good inspection underneath will tell you what needs to be done. As others said above rubber does get "tired". If Jake said don't worry about cooling hoses...don't worry about cooling hoses. Leave brakes alone if not worn. If worn replace in kind as necessary. These cars have excellent brakes.

The Next Thing would be a 20 year old Supermodel to go in the passenger seat while you drive the 996 and Smile !!!!

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Too expensive! Gojira and I are going for a nice long ride!

The FSI Stage 1 engine was never developed for any track activity that requires a helmet to protect the driver's head. This is the best way to explain my position on the topic, which is clearly started on the FSI website in the Stage 1 description, in all of our Webinars, as well as my direct communications with purchasers. This has been the case since 2007, it has not, and will not change. @blacksquid my recommendation on "what else" would be to follow the guidance that Robert, and my team give you. Any the end of the day this is what you are buying- not an engine.

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Agree, that�s what I would do. The brakes aren�t really an issue on this car, and if you aren�t tracking, I would keep it stock.

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That's the plan! I was just looking for ideas on what to budget for next.

I would skip a big brake kit. They're not needed for street driving. My suggestion would be to replace all the rubber suspension components due to age. (control arms, control arm links and sway bar bushing) If the shop says they need to be replaced, I would stick with stock transmission & engine mounts since your engine builder recommends that. Actually look at all of Jake's "we won't let it leave the shop with X installed" list and stick to that! Consider replacing struts & rear shocks. Buy some good tires (I like Michelin Pilot Sports 4S) for great grip on the road. Then enjoy driving your car. Other mods I like: (mainly those for sound and feel) 997 shifter console Function First Classic Shift **** Exhaust mods

Redoing all the suspension was a night and day upgrade when I tore into my car. That is what I would do next IMO Brian

If replacing engine/tranny mounts, stick with OEM as per Jake's directive on his engines.

I prefer stock suspension for a car like this. Coil overs make noise and get louder as the spherical bearings wear. Unless a car would see considerable track service, I see zero benefits over stock suspension and brakes. A car like this one that will be fitted with the FSI Stage 1 engine is one that I'd keep stock other than the engine, and go have fun in comfort. I don't look forward to test driving 996s with aftermarket suspension after we finish the engines. Every car sees around 120 test miles, and I usually have my test driver drive those cars.

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I agree, a new stock suspension would still be much cushier than a coilover on a soft setting.

I was leaning towards just replacing the stock suspension bits, no RoW M030, or coil-overs. One thing I was considering is replacing the plastic bearings in the shift mechanism with billet bearings from Phenix Engineering. Any advantage to going with Function First kit?

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I think the formula is half your age + 7. So in my case, that would be 37-ish.

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Perfect!

See if you can upgrade to a stage 2 track performer. There is no better feeling than driving your 911 on the track.

Nope, once the Proposal is executed, there's no changing the scope of the project. For this engine we already have 75% of the components in hand, which we are having to do months ahead of the time that we did pre- Covid. Due to how I operate in this capacity, we've yet to miss a single delivery date through the Covid period. Not even an act of Congress would make this change, and all purchasers know, understand, and agree to this at the onset of the project.

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Correct, and there is no fine print. Read the proposal and you'll find ALL the details are in there. That's why the wait period is important, so you can mull over the details, ask any questions, and "do all the math." Jake requires you wait several days to sign after you receive the proposal. No snap decisions allowed here. I chose the Stage II (and all the options) and know there's no changing it...but why would I? I know EXACTLY what I'm getting and when! Psst, I did consider the R40, but decided the Stage II was better for my budget. But boy am I enjoying the R40 pictures Bill is posting!

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Yep, you know what makes things tick around here. This Thursday is our spring sales Webinar, and that's where the straight talk begins! After I drop my first boom, usually I see 5 guys check out within the next couple of minutes! Each yeah I have to be more and more direct, more and more definitive, and comprehensive. I find myself enjoying saying NO to potential purchasers more than selling them something. being so direct, and up front has been working pretty well to keep a certain group that I try to avoid from advancing in the process, and that keeps life simpler for everyone. Giving people time to think, and requiring them to hold the Proposal for 3-4 days before singing (the dates and costs are locked in for 10 days once Proposed) gives plenty of time for people to "research" and then make their decision without any pressure. The worst thing in the world is the guy that gets part way through the process, then tries to bail on the project. Then I have to remind him that's not possible, and he will lose ALL of his payments if he does decide to bail. It happens every couple of years, and you don't want to get the title "flake" assigned to your ticket status around here! @TexSquirrel was a classic purchaser who asked all the right questions, wasn't an entitled jerk, and has remained cool as a cucumber. Guys like him are rewarded, because I appreciate them more than anything else on the planet.

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I think this is an attitude that we have generally gotten away from over the years. While sometimes it seems blunt or maybe even a bit abrasive, many people have become accustomed to "the customer is always right" so it's a shock when someone actually passes on their business or isn't willing to give in to their demands. It's easier said than done, I am a detailer and I still have issues sometimes saying no to people when they give me a hard time or beat me up on price, or want me to do something I cannot do for them. It definitely makes life easier when you turn away certain people because the dread of dealing with them goes away with it.

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You should save up plenty of money for gasoline, as you'll be driving a lot and enjoying the car!

I like Jakes, "here's the facts and the costs, let me know if you want to move forward" business practice. I hate pushy sales people, tell me how much it costs and if I want your service, I'll let you know. Don't call me weekly asking if I want to give you my money. If I haven't been convinced by the sales-pitch, I'm probably not going to be interested. Jakes sales pitch is not high-pressure, it is just the facts and the costs...end of story. That's how F6I works. Maybe that's because F6I is THE top place for an engine rebuild and they don't need your business because there's a year or two worth of people ready to sign. I challenge anyone to "shop around" at your local Indy and see what you get rebuild-wise for the money...and then compare it to a F6I rebuild. (Look at the replaced parts and the balancing, and the tuning, and the...) Flat 6 Innovations might be the best, and have a year+ waiting list, but the prices are in-line with what they do. Do you pay a huge premium for everything they provide...not really. You get more than what you're paying for...that's why I'm in line now!

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Yep.. Just last week I wanted to buy a new vapor hone for my jobs. I made some inquiries, but almost every person I dealt with wanted to "make a deal today", or "what can I do to get you into this" or something else. I didn't buy any of them, and decided to buy the one that no sales person supported. This is why I HATE sales people, and I have never employed one. I never will. If someone wants my engine, I will sell it to them myself. I will do it my way, and I'll make sure there's no question marks way up front from either side. I operated the same exact way when I was a kid selling VW engines out of a barn with a dirt floor, so it has nothing to do with money, status, or anything else. Fact is, if I would have accepted every job back then, I'd not be where I am today. Someone would have taken me out, displeased with what I built. Back then I would starve, so I had to take out the trash at the local shopping center just to eat when I turned down too many jobs. Ironically, the owners of the shopping center bought a 996 engine from me last year, 30 years after I was the kid he was paying 5 bucks an hour to haul off the trash in a 1962 VW bus with no back window, no heat, and no charging system. Its because of the society we live in today. Everywhere else it is fast paced, take everyone's money.. here it is like stepping back in time to real craftsmanship, and a slower pace. respect rules, and above all else "Don't be a dick".

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Huh? I thought the math was at 40 it takes two 20's, and then at 60 it takes three 20's ,....rotating of course to keep the miles down and not wear them out..

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Must be the new math! The responses have been great! I am super stoked to get the engine back in the car, put the top down, and go for a nice long drive to places I haven't driven to in what will have been a year! My experience with Jake, Jud, and everyone else at Flat 6 Innovations has been the best!

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My local indy told me an M96 wasn't worth rebuilding. That sent me down a very deep rabbit hole. Priced out everything including LS swaps. Read, watched and noted damn near every detail Jake's divulged about his engines. Adding up the numbers had me confused in that his premium was way too low for the man hours necessary. Had a great discussion with him, but ultimately decided I wanted to rebuild myself (with the help of his video instruction). Those that have followed my saga are aware that my rebuild costs (hopefully) aren't the norm but do reflect the risks. Ultimately I'm happy with the path I chose mostly because of everything I've learned along the way. But when it comes time for my dad's M97 to be rebuilt, there's no doubt its going to Jake.

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Classic.. They sent you on a path they figured they could make money from, because they failed to learn about the M9X when they should have. They were all late to the game, and now the game has passed them by, as a result. I was laughed at by every peer in the industry when I first started working with these engines. They said I was a fool for doing anything with them, while they were busy swapping in crate engines from PCNA. Yes, you have earned your role as an engine builder. Your case needs to be a poster child for the guy that wants to do this job themselves. See, that's a key to why the Stage I is what you need- the car is a cabriolet. You need a powerful, fun to drive cruiser that makes power everywhere, has torque everywhere, and has great manners. The Stage I will deliver!

I've read build posts, watched YouTube build videos (Boost Brothers Garage, 997 Dad) and I'm so glad I sent my car, a low optioned '99 to Jake for a Stage 1 build. I'm not saying anything against anyone who rebuilds their own motor, in fact more power to you. I just know I couldn't do it myself and I want to make sure I have car I can jump in a drive anywhere without worry. Jake and Jud and the rest have kept me in the loop the entire time my car has been with them. He has conducted ZOOM meetings with all of us and keeps us up to date on everything. No BS no unclear or vague answers, and not trying to sell you upgrades, just straight up this is what we are building for you. It's nice doing business with people who are honest and up front about what you are going to get for your money. I do feel bad now because my car has coil overs (sorry Jake). Have a great day everyone.

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Score one for Common Core ???....

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I think communication is the key to every success in today's world. It seems that the more communication avenues we have, the crappier the communication between humans becomes. If communication fails, everything else will follow suite pretty quickly. This is especially true with my engine program, due to backlog, and how many processes are required to complete a successful build. Setting the stage up front, and then executing exactly what we forecast has been the key to success here at Flat 6. From time to time we run across the random purchaser who has already used another engine provider, before they decided to come our way. These people generally already knew about my program, but they "didn't want to wait that long" or "didn't want to spend that much", so they went down another road looking for the same end result. They learned the hard way that the only way to end up with the FSI result, is to experience my program, wait the required amount of time, and pay the price of admission. The general consensus of these people has been pretty much the same, since they ended up spending almost the same amount of money, but they get to do the job twice, when what they were promised didn't match up to what the other guy delivered. They ended up waiting a long time, too... The difference was the other guy told them he'd be done in 2-3 months, but he missed his promised delivery date and would always say "check back next week". I read the stories all the time, and deal with the folks who were lied to, ripped off, and some never received their engine. One of them never received his car back. The record was a purchaser that ended up with around 80K wasted on engines before he finally waited in the right line, and paid the right guy. I am really hard to deal with in situations like his, because the guy has been ripped off so much, disappointed every where he has been, and he is ready to give up. Being the guy that finally delivers when this level of disappointment exists is VERY hard to do. I seldom accept these jobs, and the reason is based on going into it with someone who has been so ripped off that he doesn't trust anyone, and we end up with a target on our backs, with everything we do being under a microscope. The sad part is, in most cases they got what they paid for. Most of them were wise people, and they "did their research" first on the provider they chose. They didn't realize that the guy had 3 business names in a single year, and they didn't do the right "research" before pulling the trigger. There's one hell of a bigger picture out there than using a Google search, fellas. Some of these characters have a positive showing only because they haven't done enough of these jobs to end top with the negative reviews they deserve, or they negotiate with the purchaser not to voice their disgust publicly. These guys also usually get really lucky, and the people they rip off end up being nice guys that aren't confrontational, so they don't spread the bad word the way they could. That is why the "research" that people do isn't very effective. One day I will end up dealing with the wrong guy, and he'll end up creating a disaster. I have to treat every guy like he will be that guy, and work to make sure that he isn't. Sorry, rant off.. I went off the deep end, and it was uncalled for :-)

Yesterday I took my car to a shop here were I live in Katy Texas. After I ask a few questions including what happens if my engine blows up. They owner told me exactly what Jake said we send it to a machine shop or I find you a replacement. I went to the shop to show him my car and also after attending the Long Star PCA concourse event in addition that I found that a lot of the people just have a shop do everything and don�t know squad, I was not that knowledgeable about my car. I spoke to a few people that knew the car extremely well. And they pointed out certain modifications that have been done , Ie updated lights, I already knew I had SS exhaust and headers, coil overs and Konya. I wanted a shop that would go thru the car with me tell me what has been changed modified upgraded and then suggested possible work. I don�t know yet if I have original engine but another 996 owner drove it with me in the passenger seat and told me that mine was faster than his. Then I drove his and yes mine is faster, but he has a smooth ride because he has the original suspension set up. Anyway, at the end of the visit I didn�t schedule a time with this shop, because, 1. The owner knows less about the car than me. 2. I suspected I could not thrust the guy and drop my car. 3. I basically learned that he has knowledge people but basically is a set up where he has one specialist per brand. So I was told about 3 specific shops that are only Porsche and that�s what and why I�m goin to deal with one of them, yes they are more expensive you get what you pay for.

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If you're willing to drive your car south on Grand Parkway and bring it down to the Sugar Land/Richmond/Rosenberg area, I can tell you what has been modified. I can tell you quickly whether you have a replacement engine or not. I really can't advise you on local shops as I do all my own work, except for my upcoming engine rebuild. I have all the tools required to do an M9x rebuild, I just decided I'd let Flat 6 Innovations rebuild it for me. (No drama!) I can guess which 3 you've heard about.(Einars, Modern Aircooled, and Rennsport in Sealy...or maybe Koby) I've talked to several of the technicians and owners at a couple of them. If it isn't one of those 4, I wouldn't bother with them.

Thank you sir. Yeah whenever you have A chance I�ll drive it there. Yes so far I�m really impressed with modern air cool and a few of the guys I met and even had beers with told me about Einars, of course eurowerk was there and a few people said they are good. For a couple of years after I retired I restored and sold eurospec Mercedes and BMWs. But it was a hard sell and it was just a two man operation. Anyway my personal cars at that moment we�re a 2004 VWR32 with HPA tu over 665 at the wheels, 1984 745i eurospec turbo and 1985 M635csi over 300 hbo.

So far I only have 1 client car scheduled for this coming weekend. If it stays that way, I might just go to the PCA GTG in Katy this Saturday at 8:30. https://calendar.google.com/calendar...&pli=1&sf=true Maybe I could look it over for you there. I can bring the Durametric and manometer and we can run some checks, if you didn't already check everything during a PPI.

that sounds good. Where is the cars and coffee on Saturday? Wife and I are going to the cane Island BBQ cook off. I would love to find someone to work on my car . Fuel system is working extremely well. Luis [phone removed]. My other car is a 2019 F150 super crew with the Stx package. Wife drives c300 4 mastic that just came off certified warranty.

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Blacksquid, best decision you could ever make. These are great cars and Jakes team will build you a great motor, congrats!

Now what? Strengthen up your stupid grin muscles now before it arrives... It's comin' Seriously, all the rubber associated with the suspension including top mounts. Maybe struts and springs. Engine mounts, transmission mount. Crisp it up. Said before. Add this to the vote count.

What percentage of the time will you be doing any of the following Putt around town top down tunes blaring looking good Highway cruising Slay twisties solo or with buds Car show standout Commuter

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See above

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808Bill - Your R40 build thread is awesome! The progress pics make my mouth water and I just can't wait to get my engine back from Jake & Company. I know I made the right choice going with the better pistons, tighter balancing, and high performance coils. 3-1/2 months to go!

Cool... Go over all rubber in suspension arms, replace anything suspect. Put Ohlins R&T on with the stock upper mounts, firmness set right in the middle. Michelin PS4S 285/35 in the rear, the taller sidewall is good for just a tad more compliance and the tires themselves are perfect for fast street car that won’t give you any issues in standing water. IMO the ohlins are such an upgrade over stock suspension in all areas, INCLUDING compliance it is wild. Seriously, if you can find someone local to get a ride in equipped car - I would urge you to do it before discounting as too stiff, that may be the case for many CO setups where the dampers are not that good and the setup gains it’s advantage in being way oversprung but that is NOT the case with Ohlins. From what people say about the engine you have purchased, your on your way to a sweet, reliable car. To neuter it’s greatest attribute (handling) with the factory stuff when there is such a high end proven alternative available... well, maybe something you want to think about and flag a ride in a car with a really high end setup like the ohlins to see what you think before automatically discounting. ETA... Just reread your OP and noticed the car is a C4... that will likely influence tire sizing to keep the diff happy. My suggestion would still be, run the tallest tire you can, a 275, 285 is plenty or rubber for grip with good quality rubber. Also, spend the extra for a solid suspension setup from someone who knows what they’re doing, it really does make a big difference to get the corner balance dialed, even on the street.