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YOUR RESEARCHMorning start up engine knocking?
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converter
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Reported cause
(Have to mention I heard a bit of knocking from my Boxster's engine but this was due to a converter with a loose brick that was upon cold start knocking about inside the housing.
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Suggestion
The techs said -- as I recall Miller writing -- in so many words you can pay us to adjust the lifters every 15K miles or you can pay us to replace the hydraulic lifters every so often when they get noisy as they wear in.
Leading evidence: 'converter' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'converter' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust lifters every 15k miles or you can pay us' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
2012 Dodge Challenger Installed a Kenwood DDX5901HD Interfaced with iDatalink Maestro - YouTube
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have tried this and didn't notice a difference but I use my cars regularly.
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Suggestion
The techs said -- as I recall Miller writing -- in so many words you can pay us to adjust the lifters every 15K miles or you can pay us to replace the hydraulic lifters every so often when they get noisy as they wear in.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
I did this a while here but finally said what the heck and had the tech use 5w-50 this last oil change even though we are heading into winter.
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Adjust lifters every 15k miles or you can pay us
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Suggestion
The techs said -- as I recall Miller writing -- in so many words you can pay us to adjust the lifters every 15K miles or you can pay us to replace the hydraulic lifters every so often when they get noisy as they wear in.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Suggestion
The techs said -- as I recall Miller writing -- in so many words you can pay us to adjust the lifters every 15K miles or you can pay us to replace the hydraulic lifters every so often when they get noisy as they wear in.
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Suggestion
This "heavier" oil might make a difference in the amount of engine noise at startup but I have to tell you that even fresh 0w-40, based on my ears, makes for a pretty quiet engine at start up compared to the same oil with 5K miles on it that was just replaced with this fresh oil.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
converter
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
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0
Suspected cause
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Reported fixes
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Discussions that report identifying a cause
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Reported cause
(Have to mention I heard a bit of knocking from my Boxster's engine but this was due to a converter with a loose brick that was upon cold start knocking about inside the housing.
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26 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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I'm new to the Porsche engine. In the morning I hear the engine knocking for about 5 to 10 seconds. Is it due to lifters may just have to pump up? 1999 (996)
Knocking? Or ticking?
Knocking at start up can be a more serious noise. It can arise from worn bearings or too much crankshaft end play among other things.
(Have to mention I heard a bit of knocking from my Boxster's engine but this was due to a converter with a loose brick that was upon cold start knocking about inside the housing. After things got warmed up it just buzzed/rattled like a loose heat shield.)
(Also, there can be a hot knocking noise that can arise in some cars from the tranny or possibly the clutch disc on the input shaft rattling. My Boxster sometimes makes this noise -- stopped a light with the transmission in neutral and the clutch pedal released -- but not very loud. A depress then release of the clutch pedals makes this noise go away. The Turbo makes this noise too, and louder, but again just pushing the clutch all the way in and then releasing it has the noise gone.)
Ticking and similar valve hardware clatter is most often normal, just the standard noises an engine with chain driven dual overhead cams and hydraulic lifters makes.
To hear this for 5 to 10 seconds though after a cold start is a tad not normal, based on my limited experience. Over the less obvious noise of the valves ticking I hear the noise of the chains being dragged over the chain guides but the noise is only present as the engine RPMs climb after a cold start. By the time the engine has reached its cold idle speed -- takes maybe a second -- the noise is gone. The ticking is gone almost before it starts.
Now before you turn to jelly from anxiety not all ticking is from the valves. There are 6 injectors each one or several can be a bit noisy at times. There can be a loose spark plug, too, even an exhaust leak either one can sound so much like a valve ticking that it is near impossible to distinguish what is responsible for the noise.
Assuming the noise is valve related, Ahsai is on the right track.
I'll add be sure you are using a proper oil and I can further add that the oil wants to be reasonable fresh.
As oil gets miles on it the oil collects unburned fuel and water which thins the oil out and this thinner oil makes for a noisier engine, at cold (or hot) startup but at other times too.
Wow , thanks for the quick and knowledgeable response. It's more like a lifters ticking sound. Actually my 2009 BMW experienced something like this for about 2 seconds. The oil was just replaced by the shop at the dealer where I bought the car. I saw when they flushed the old oil but not when they filled it up. . I have to verify that is was Mobil 1.
http://www.chicagomotorcars.com/
Have you heard about this remark! Is it due to lifters may just have to pump up?
If it's 0w-40 Mobil 1, that could be your problem. I had the same symptom many years ago when my car was still quite new and low mileage. Switched to Motul 5w-40 and never heard any valve noise at start up ever since.
My theory is the M1 was too thin and some of the valves that are leaking a bit got the oil bleed down overnight. The little bit heavier oil turns just a little bit viscous enough after the engine stops (and temp goes down) to prevent this bleed down.
Mobil 0W-40W synthetic is one of the oils Porsche suggests, not sure about your viscosity though. I used to use Mobil 0w-40w, but changed to Castrol Syn. 5W-40W a couple of years ago. Some noise at start up seems common (does to me), and some Rennlisters would tell you to change oil brands.
That's interesting. My 2003 C2 manual for > 50F, the heaviest it recommends is 15w-50.
The owner manual is probably obsoleted by the Porsche Approved oil list (available from Renntech.org) which applies to our models. That list recommends oil with the following weight from different brands: 0w-40, 5w-40, and 5w-50
Am I at risk of turning this to an engine oil thread
Unfortunately the owners manual is not the correct or last word on oil for these engines. IIRC there's a sentence in there that in so many words directs you to the dealer for the correct list of appropriate oils.
Porsche provides its dealer service departments with a periodic update of approved oils and their approval expiration date.
Upon asking the techs at my local dealer have printed this document and given me a copy.
if you are a member of renntech.org you can download this document from there.
From my recollection of the list no 20w-XX or 10w-XX oils are approved. There are a number of 5w-40 oils, at least one ow-40 oil (Mobil 1) (and there are IIRC a few others of that viscosity), and even one 5w-50 oil, also a Mobil 1 oil.
In my "northern" CA location with its mild winter temps and hot summer temps I've opted to use Mobil 1 5w-50 oil year 'round in both my 02 Boxster and my 03 Turbo.
While we're talking about oil... any recommendations for oil weight for a 996 with 105k miles in Tampa FL? Temps now are daytime 80's, night time 70's. Winter here gets down to 60's or 50's at night...
Never had any issue with m1 0w40 - plus it's cheap at wallymart. Just change every 12 months or 5-10k miles. In really hot climate or if you are going to the track you could be candidate for 5w50 ....or any of the approved 5w40s are fine if that makes you feel better ...there are a million opionons on this out there ...
The engine oil system pressurizes in practically no time upon engine start. The lifters should pump up very quickly. While I can't say just how much time this takes 10 even 5 seconds is based on my experience nearly an order of magnitude too much time. Really, a second of ticking is all I hear. I hear the clatter of the engine internals when starting the engine then the noise is gone.
While I have no experience with BMW's I do recall a complaint is they have noisy lifters.
As I recall Mike Miller who writes for a BMW magazine covered this some time ago when BMW was moving from solid lifters to hydraulic lifters. The customers were pressing for this change while the BMW techs were dead set against it. The customers wanted to get away from the 15K mile valve adjustment requirement. The techs said -- as I recall Miller writing -- in so many words you can pay us to adjust the lifters every 15K miles or you can pay us to replace the hydraulic lifters every so often when they get noisy as they wear in.
Now I have driven other cars with hydraulic lifters and lifter noise was never a problem, but apparently my info -- I have not followed BMW's for a couple of years now though so this may no longer be the case -- is BMW liters are noisy or get noisy.
I read you are going to let the tech listen to the engine. That is a good idea. Engines are different as much as they are the same (kind of Zenish at 3am ain't I?) and it could be the ticking your engine produces is normal for it.
Let the tech listen and then listen to what he has to say.
Now I don't' want to get ahead of the tech but you might consider using a 5w-40 oil (approved of course). This "heavier" oil might make a difference in the amount of engine noise at startup but I have to tell you that even fresh 0w-40, based on my ears, makes for a pretty quiet engine at start up compared to the same oil with 5K miles on it that was just replaced with this fresh oil.
You can even consider switching to a 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50!). I have switched to using Mobil 1 5w-50 oil in both of my Porsches.
Now I have to point out it doesn't get nearly as cold here where I live and drive as it does where you are in I guess Chicago. You might want to consider using 0w-40 during the winter and 5w-50 during the summer. I know, I know. A bit of pain. I did this a while here but finally said what the heck and had the tech use 5w-50 this last oil change even though we are heading into winter.
There is also this: While I am not a big fan of oil additives, my Porsche tech contacts swear that for engines that do not receive regular and frequent use and thus are more likely to rattle and tick upon cold start, Swepco 502 oil improver with "Micronized Moly" is the stuff to use. I have tried this and didn't notice a difference but I use my cars regularly. Also, I didn't read the instructions that closely and upon reading them a bit closer I was using just one bottle of the stuff when based on the amount of oil in these engines nearly two bottles is called for. Whether adding the proper amount of this additive would have then made a positive difference I do not know.
Dropped precious at the shop yesterday evening. This morning I stop by to be present when precious woke up. I held her hand and started right up. She ask me why was all these people staring at her ***? I responded with a not to worry those hairy guys just wanted to look under your skirt and listen to your valve movement. She said my innards are fine thank you very much. The heard the ticking noise and requested to leave her overnight for further observation. I told her that I would see her in the morning. She asked me of who that young good looking guy was in the show room floor?
http://inventory.chicagomotorcars.co...inois/1625890/
Ok, ticking is gone. They replace the oil with Mobile1 0/40. They said they made a mistake and put the wrong oil. I asked what was in my car . He said that it was thicker than 10/40 and to leave it at that. I can rest now, sleep, and hold my food.
Know I'm going to ride her until she squeals. She 's going to get a head job.
2012 Dodge Challenger Installed a Kenwood DDX5901HD Interfaced with iDatalink Maestro - YouTube
Kenwood | ANDROID APP SETUP - YouTube
iDatalink Maestro Promo 2012 - YouTube
That's very interesting. Thicker (!?) than even 10w-40? Wow! Maybe 15w-50 then. Or even 20w-50 or good grief, even 20w0-60. IIRC some BMW engines use 20w-60. (Or maybe I'm thinking of Ferrari engines�)
Anyhow, glad you got it sorted out and can rest easy.
