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YOUR RESEARCHCost of having cam chain guides replaced 01
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Use my house is easier
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No, just curious - I've used both - my house is easier for Katy and my office is closer to Hempstead so it just depends on what I'm up to.
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Suggestion
To change the cam actuator pads and have enough room to do it correctly and not introduce debris into engine and inferior assembly, an engine out service is best.
Leading evidence: 'Use my house is easier' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'culprits' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace cam actuator pads and have enough room' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suspected cause · Original poster
Not totally sure but from the sounds of it, it's usually the out side chain guides that are the ones that wear the most and likely the culprits but unsure.
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Suggestion
To change the cam actuator pads and have enough room to do it correctly and not introduce debris into engine and inferior assembly, an engine out service is best.
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Suggestion
The recent PCA YouTube video on the m96/97 rebuild featured Jake Ruby discussing various items to replace during engine-out.
Replace guides.....i'm just hoping it's not too crazy
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Suggestion · Original poster
Well the car is now at Garagisti here in Houston and will advise the cost of tearing into and replacing the guides.....I'm just hoping it's not too crazy!
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Replace cam actuator pads and have enough room
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Suggestion
To change the cam actuator pads and have enough room to do it correctly and not introduce debris into engine and inferior assembly, an engine out service is best.
Replace guides.....i'm just hoping it's not too crazy
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Suggestion · Original poster
Well the car is now at Garagisti here in Houston and will advise the cost of tearing into and replacing the guides.....I'm just hoping it's not too crazy!
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Suggestion
While you're in there, probably a great idea to change the small chains and rebuild those actuators with the Hartech VarioActuator seal kit, or replace them for about $1330 each.
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culprits
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Suspected cause · Original poster
Not totally sure but from the sounds of it, it's usually the out side chain guides that are the ones that wear the most and likely the culprits but unsure.
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So I'm in the process of setting up an appointment to have my cam chain guides replaced (found a small piece in the oil and the cam deviation readout was 6 & 4) in my 2001 996 C4 and wondering what I can expect for a estimated cost of having them done. I live in Houston and have a lot of good indy's and just trying to limit my sticker shock..lol. I know it's a motor out procedure but I'm hoping it's not too crazy of a cost. Thoughts?
I think the cheapest option in Houston would be Koby Motors - they don't have the nicest shop with free frapaccinos and the like, but they offer quality work at good rates - I think they're around $155/hr whereas other indies in Houston are between $180-220
https://www.kobymotors.com/
Correct 5 chain. Not totally sure but from the sounds of it, it's usually the out side chain guides that are the ones that wear the most and likely the culprits but unsure. I'm hoping something under $3500 but we'll see.
Big difference from 'chain guides', too 'vario cam actuator pads' and solenoids.
Be very sure you need this job done, and of what you're exactly asking the shop to do, and what they're actually doing.... Actuator pads are what mostly affects the 3.4 cam deviation #.
While you're in there, probably a great idea to change the small chains and rebuild those actuators with the Hartech VarioActuator seal kit, or replace them for about $1330 each. As many have experienced a burnt up DME/ecu from the actuators failing. Those actuator seals are 20 years old, and with the pads worn out it shows the actuators have seen better days and just maybe the inside of them looks a lot like the outside pads do.... Just a heads up while you're in there, this is the time to do it...
To change the cam actuator pads and have enough room to do it correctly and not introduce debris into engine and inferior assembly, an engine out service is best. And the only way a real m96 professional will do the job imho.
This is a 20 hour job at the least. Maybe more. and to do it right, $8000+++... Along with many other 'while you're in there' and engine is out....
For the non DIY'er, if this job is 100% required,,, might be time to cut and run for many non-diy'ers.
Before I'd sink that type of $$$$ into a m96, I'd be very very sure of its total condition with a sump inspection/bore scope, and imho, very important,, its 'oil instability' propensity. I'd even add a leak down/compression test, & of course a oil analysis. If all those come out with flying colors, go for it if it makes financial sense to ya.
jmo
Thanks! I'm going to give them a call. Reading the reviews and they seem legit! I have an appointment at Garagsiti on Thursday but just might have to see what Koby would charge. Thanks for the heads up!
Thanks JMO. With that all said, what's the likely hood of the motor just blowing up if I wasn't to have anything done? I know it's anyone's guess but I don't beat on it, I don't even bring up over 4000 rpm to be honest (If I want to go fast I'll beat on my 991.1). It's Sunday afternoon car for messing around with the wife and top down. Never will see a track, etc. With the deviation numbers as mentioned, is it that bad or am I over reacting?
Imho they need to be done to keep the motor healthy. As said its a 20-25 hr job but the parts r not that expensive. The while u r in there parts can add up though.....
I've also got 2001 c2 with 36,000 miles and cam deviation of 3.47 & 4.7. It changes a little (up&down) every time I check it. But its more or less stayed the same for over 2 years/5000 miles now. I'm not going to do a thing till a check engine light/cam dev code comes up. Then will make a decision and game plan. And I'm a diy'er, but at this point in my life not as limber as in my 30's so under the car work is a pia for me....
jmho
Anything over 4deg should be fixed, over 6deg should cause a MIL.
If it were me, I'd drop the engine and do it myself.
I do have the tools required if you'd like to borrow them.
Thank you but I don't have the space to do it unfortunately. Not sure what is meant by MIL? I understand it's not hard to do just time consuming. I'll report back once I know what I'll be charged.
Interesting,,, so anything over a 6� dev would trigger a mil...? Somehow iirr, read that it has to be over 8-10�, and <6� is in Porsche specs . Not sure that source was reliable though. I trust you more...?
Want to learn... What are the reasons to fix a �4 cam deviation.
I've been told, "above 6."
4deg is definitely FSI recommendation and not Porsche's.
But FSI recommendation came many years after Porsche's and is based on real world experience with the M9x engines long after any Porsche warranties.
FSI has likely torn down more M9x than Porsche ever did.
Porsche dealers replace short blocks, they do not rebuild engines.
Is it OK to go past the 4deg recommendation? Possibly.
But based on FSI's recommendation I believe once you're past 4deg it's time to take care of it.
Jake is conservative with his recommendations. (BTW, Jake doesn't sell guides, so he doesn't have a dog in the hunt)
But with a possible catastrophic failure, on such an expensive engine, you want conservative recommendations.
Well the car is now at Garagisti here in Houston and will advise the cost of tearing into and replacing the guides.....I'm just hoping it's not too crazy! Wish me luck. :O)
No, just curious - I've used both - my house is easier for Katy and my office is closer to Hempstead so it just depends on what I'm up to. I do see more exotics at the Hempstead location so that kinda leads me there sometimes lol
The recent PCA YouTube video on the m96/97 rebuild featured Jake Ruby discussing various items to replace during engine-out. IIRC, he noted the vario-cam guides wear out in cars that are not driven harder, assuming that means not getting often enough into the revs where activation occurs, around 3000 rpm. Definitely another reason it�s a good idea to consistently rev past 4K after full warm-up.
Not how variocam works. Solenoid is on at 1300rpm, off at 5920rpm. Nothing is happening at 3k rpm, except the resonance flap opens around that point but that is varioRAM, not varioCAM. Totally different system.
Really skeptical that redlining the car has anything to do with variocam pad wear. Variocam is off at idle but otherwise activated during the overwhelming majority of driving time.
OP unlikely anything catastrophic will happen even w fairly severe pad wear. When wear gets bad enough the center links start to eat into the pad material and the wear actually slows down at that point. Yes if a pad cracks it can be problematic as pad material can get into oil passages and the swirl pots in the sump. Chain can jump a tooth at that point. This is not common. My bank 1 deviation was at -9, bottom pad was pretty bad but definitely not close to cracking or breaking.
This would make more sense, how many of these cars have 140k+ and no one mentions anything about the "cam deviation"...maybe because they just never had it checked or don't even know about it, but I would tend to think the high mileage cars would all have similar pad wear but yet, you're not hearing catastrophic engine failures.
