New Engine?!?

So..I dont know a thing about engines so nothing will be worded correctly but maybe someone knows what I'm trying to say I have a 2002 C4 that I bought with 20k miles on it. Showroom condition. Ran beautifully for 5 years as I kept on top of it with every little sound. Last year (at around 55k miles) I decided to do a full tune up. I didn't know what that entailed but I wanted it to keep running strong. It went in running beautifully and came out running poorly: loss of power, some bogging. The local shop that did it insisted it was right. I took it back..they said some sort of vacuum tube was faulty so they replaced it. Now I'm in about 2000.00. Get it home and the very next day (pulling out of driveway) the alternator falls off and eats through my oil filler tube. I have it towed back to them as they were the most reputable in area outside dealership. I said "didn't you guys just remove the alternator to do this last job?". Yes. "well, then isn't this your issue? I suspect one of your guys torqued it too hard putting it back on". Nope. So now...it's get a lawyer and leave car with them or pay the additional 1000.00 and never go back. I paid. Car never ran well again..problems hitting 140, sluggish...but I was in middle of relocation from North East to down south so I shipped it down and ate my losses. I've been here about 5 months and put about 800 miles on it...still running rough and it didn't want to start one morning along side a check engine light, a drive to shop notice and a camshaft notice. ugh....found a local guy ( no dealership within 90 min radius). Said cracked oil filler tube causing vacuum issue (which was literally just replaced) AND a code for cam shaft not engaging properly bank 1 (? does that sound right?) and a possible timing chain issue judging by the ticking noise. Im told thousands to pull engine and figure out but probably need new engine. I dont believe a car this well maintained with 60000 miles on it all of a sudden is junk. Someone please tell me it's just like a cam shaft sensor for 70.00 because I'm a bit pistol whipped after the last year

Post where you are located, maybe someone here has a recommendation for a better shop. Does the place you have it now specialize or have extensive experience with these engines?

I think it will be really difficult for anyone to give you detailed advice without having what codes are triggered and the general description that you gave. A vacuum leak will certainly cause poor running but any decent shop should be able to smoke test that to see if there is a leak. As far as the camshaft issue, bank 1 (the drivers side of engine) camshaft sensor is at the back of the engine (towards the bumper). Somebody could have messed up that sensor or plug. It sounds really premature to be dropping the engine unless the shop has way more details on their diagnosis that what you are providing. It would be helpful if you asked the shop for the specific codes they are pulling and what exactly they have done so far for a diagnosis.

First post ever Wow Welcome to RL Sorry you werent with us over the past 5 blissful years of your P car ownership Love to see the codes and hear more about what the local indy shop has to say PS love to hear guys saying a bit sluggish around 140mph - well done sir well done in deed

First off...Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your efforts . I just grabbed the paperwork and there are no codes listed. All it says is "Timing chain noise from bank 1..internal engine problem...will need to tear down to realize extent of damage...may need new engine..". I will have to call them on Monday and get exact codes. I figured my information would be sub par . All I know for certain is my dash is saying "drive to shop..check engine...and something about the camshaft". if you guys dont mind waiting I will certainly post the details as soon as I get them. With regards to location...I'm hesitant to say only because they're the only guys around that I'm aware of and I like them. But, if there's a place that specializes in 911's then that's what I need. These guys are more bmw with some Porsche. I'm in Charlotte, NC. I was told the closest was 60 miles away but it looks like there's a dealership 35 mins away in South East Charlotte (even though I prefer to avoid dealerships if I can find a good guy). oh..and 996AE...you actually had me laugh out loud. You ended my bad day with a laugh. I can't ask for anything more

Found these recommended here on RL. https://www.blackforestracing.com/ https://www.zuffenhaus.us/

I am in Charlotte. For regular maintenance and track inspection I use a shop called Touringcar in Matthews. Dan is the owner. For complex jobs including suspension set up I use the dealership on Independence Avenue, Hendrix Porsche. They are really thorough and will get to the bottom of your issue. Jim Burton is an old school mechanic that I highly recommend. Both shops know me. Mark Speed Yellow C4S

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Thank you! You took the time to go look back through threads for me...Happy Thanksgiving!

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Good to know Mark..thank you. I just saw Hendrix on line after I made my post. Not sure why it didn't come up the first time. I will give Jim a call after I post my codes if there are no answers. Beautiful car btw (the yellow in your pic)

You are fortunate to have one of the top shops in the country for the M96 living in Charlotte. Hands down I would only go to Nick at Top Automotive. He is known for his knowledge of 996 and all M96 platforms. https://topautomotiveinc.com/

OP - Sorry your car is on the fritz. This peanut gallery can help you a lot more if you can provide objective data and running parameters like cam deviations and P codes. Or, as Justin mentions; you can hop on the 485 (at less than 140, lest your ‘sluggish’ engine meets its demise) and see the P car specialists in Indian Trail. This shop is on my short list for an M96 rebuild. From your description of events, your shop may actually have done everything they were tasked to do properly and buggered something else up unintentionally. We all have stories of the slightest touch bringing ruin down upon the car. Any original component is half way to dust by now. The problem I have with your repair shop story is they haven’t, apparently, stepped up to empirically determine their actions didn’t cause your malfunction. That’s what any top-shelf technician would do.

Hey Hatchet...thanks! I am trying to get details and codes. Im not a car guy . The shop was back where I lived before moving south. These guys down here just pulled codes and told me Im out of luck or at least tearing the engine down if I want answers. So I'm just going to take it in to these guys that everyone recommended and get it done right.

After thinking about your failures, its a real posibility that when the drive belt went it damaged the bank 2 cam wiring. A cam 2 chain failure is pretty rare. Dont give up until u get it to a good shop

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I hope you're right I've left a message for the codes. I'll post shortly. Thank you!

OK...I dont have much but here's what I do have: Original codes that started all this were -P0492/0491. Secondary air system banks 1 and 2..some sort of vacuum reservoir was replaced as well as some other stuff. Thats when the alternator simply "fell off" (ridiculous) and ate through the oil filler tube. That was all replaced but car was still bogging down and sluggish even though filters, spark plugs and who knows what else was done at that time. the guys down here said 2 vacuum leaks were problem...replaced those (oil filler tube and breather connector) 565.00. But check engine came on with "drive to shop" on way home. Took back... Code P0011 Camshaft position with respect to crankshaft. Thats when I was told probably need new engine . So...I will call these guys you all took the time to find me and I will get it assessed properly unless you guys know what this last code really implies Thanks again for all your help and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

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I forgot about the belt failure. That does seem logical. I think you mean bank 1 though as the bank 2 sensor and wiring is on the other end.

Yes sorry bank 1. So when u search that code in rennlist u get this and other good info about the issue. Sounds like a bad vario cam actuator. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ode-p0011.html Also sounds like the old shop sucks at diagnostics and just throws parts at it.

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good call as i was just about to post the same.. Hopefully he takes it to @Topautomotive .. he has a solid Youtube channel also.. see below You Tube

You needed a good shop and you got a hack. The secondary air injection needs a vacuum cannister to work. It resides behind the alternator which requires the alternator to be removed before the cannister can be replaced. On the way back, the mechanic forgot or did not install the alternator properly and it fell off after a short drive taking out the oil filler tube and a breather hose at the intake manifold or throttle housing resulting in a vacuum leak. Then they did not live up to their fault. Shame, and dishonest. As for as what this newest code means, I really cannot tell. If you are lucky, it may just be the cam sensor wiring being whacked by the belt. If you are not lucky, then something may have been done (or not done) by the first shop the very first time they touched the car. I'm reminded of a story that always happen at Porsche car meet. Two owners meeting each other. Question 1) What year/model/engine size is your car? Question 2) who is your mechanic? Find the right mechanic for your car by asking questions at the car events. Best of luck.

I don't think you are going to get any clarity on your issues on this forum since as you said you don't have a great deal of mechanical experience. As I read your post, I think you need to "CALL A FRIEND." Although you may not know any one directly that you can call, some members on this board are likely local to your location and can make recommendations, either public or through DM's. Sadly, your car seemed to be a good one and now a hack mechanic has serviced it and created a number of issues. I think it is important that you get it to a mechanic that you can trust and someone that will listen to your unfortunate experience. I would cease driving the car and speak to different shops until you feel good about getting your issues addressed. Your car was running well prior to being serviced, so likely your issues can be overcome without an engine rebuild. That being said though, I think it is important that you find the right shop. Locally to me (Canada - Toronto), I am familiar with a few shops that I would take their word on what they would do for next steps. I hope you find a shop that can help you. Good Luck.

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Ha! I certainly agree that the original shop was suspect but it was the only one I knew of outside dealership and they've been around 40yrs. I suspect they've become lazy or trying to recoup $ after covid but it's only a guess. My other guess is that these new guys down here simply aren't qualified for this type of diagnostic. I just dont know a soul down here and have only been here since mid August. That thread was helpful but it also implies it's a rare code and usually after engine work...to my knowledge, no engine work has ever been done on this car and definitely nothing in the last 5 or 6 yrs that I've had it. I just reached out to Nick at Top Automotive (you guys gave me his name) and he sounds amazing. Im dropping it off this wk and I will post the diagnosis after I get it

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good news

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This!!! This is exactly what happened and I argued with them no avail that it was clearly their issue. Thats when they charged me another 1000 plus towing to put back on. I was literally in the middle of moving and didn't have time for bs. Just paid and left town. Great story btw...I'm learning late but I am learning

and you are staying positive! That's a big plus on your side. You'll get it sorted out.

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happy thanksgiving to you too. I have sold to automotive dealers and repair shops garages all over the world. You got to be careful. Before I go anywhere I try to have a pretty good idea of what the problem or issue is. Your local auto part store (autozone, advance auto parts, o reilly, etc) will scan the car for you, in my case they just give me the scanner and I do it, I also go ahead and clear the codes. Another good idea is if you know the problem or issue ask here in the forum about how long it should take to fix it. Also watch your parts cost, this week a shop here in the Houston area quoted me $21 per spark plug.Those are $5 plugs. Hopefully you get your car fix soon. Yes I can�t drive 55 either.

So...Nick was kind enough to take a quick look at my car and I asked him to dig deeper if he has time; but without knowing a damn thing about engines, the words that I remember him saying are as follows: The numbers that I remember (something about timing) were -9 and the other was positive which he said was impossible. Oil pressure is fluctuating and light ticking may be a chain that's loose. I guess there's also a black box of sorts that says the car was treated extremely well. Anyway, he will send me the actual details and I will post it on here. This guy is awesome! He also informed me that the other guys never replaced my front end suspension even though they charged me for it. But that's a different issue for a different day. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving and I will be back when I have intelligent information instead of my mixing up facts with misinformation.

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That happens a lot with Ferrari and Porsche.

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So..looks like Im getting rid of this car. A ton of metal in the filter housing so looking like IMS. I don't have 10-15k to fix so if you know a guy locally that wants a well maintained project car let me know. I'll probably run an add for "12k obo ..needs engine". ugh..what a disaster

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So sorry to hear this....... This is why I keep fighting and screaming to replace the IMSB with the IMS "Solution" if you have anything older than the 2006 "big Bearing" ...( and also replace the AOS with the UAOS)... The Internet deniers keep rolling the dice and winning, while innocent victims keep loosing... the people in the know have been screaming for this for over a decade...

Holy crap. Sorry to hear.

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Thanks! I'm very upset (obviously). I bought this car with 20k miles on it and have stayed on top of every little thing. I brought up the IMS at 45k miles and was dismissed as a rare and unlikely event. What gets me the most is the 10k I just put into it including 1k for ceramic coat last month. Now Ive got a 911with 70,000 miles on it worth maybe 10/12k and I paid 10k for my daughter's 2010 Hyundai Elantra last year and it had 130k miles on it. I'm a little bit sick to my stomach right now

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I know it would be tough, but you should join the fight against the Internet deniers, you could be the new Poster Child with your recent experience.. The people who claim that a 1% or 3% or 8% chance of this failure is worth gambling on are the cause... The reality is that these percentages are colossal when it comes to this kind of problem. Even though if everybody rolls the dice, the majority will not have the bad experience...but you could save a lot of people from having the feeling you are now having.. I think you should hold off on dumping the car ...

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I feel your pain but you shouldn't compare a high performance engine to a... well... one that isn't a high performance engine. These flat-6 engines rev high and require serious maintenance to keep them running well. Here's what I would do before throwing in the towel: Have a PORSCHE SPECIALIST drop the sump to check the bores for scoring from the underside and have the oil tested. If you're lucky it could be a spun bearing or the beginning/end of an IMS failure (if it's the beginning then you're still in the fight). Either way, it's better to know what the next steps would be before losing your shirt on selling it as-is without formal inspection being done. You could be leaving thousands of dollars on the table. And yes, an engine rebuild will cost you 10 - 15K to have someone do it for you. A salvage/rebuilt engine will run you the same. IF you have to sell the car, I'd part it out to recoup the bulk of your money. Otherwise, you'll get nothing but low-ball offers because it's a risk to them to buy something they know nothing about. The case, crank, cylinder heads alone are worth THOUSANDS of dollars. Interior, etc. same. Good luck!

Sorry to hear about the misfortune. What was the name of the shop that bungled this whole thing?

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Yes, and the one who dismissed the ims issue at 45k.....

If it makes you feel any better, most Porsche owners spend the cost of the car in repairs and maintenance over the lifetime of the car. Or more if they start doing custom work. A former coworker of mine bought a black corvette for $45k and then spent another $160k on it. He sold it years later for about $110k. I know some people who drop $60k on just an engine. Or what about my wife�s friend who just dropped over half a mil on a house remodel? Or the thousands I�ve spent on swimming lessons and piano lessons for my kids. Maybe it�s eight figures now that I think of it. Or, a friend of mine has millions of dollars in medical bills fighting stage 4 cancer at age 44. Not trying to make you feel worse, but it can always be worse. I�d rather get a diagnosis or prognosis from a mechanic than a doctor. If my engine explodes tomorrow, one way to make the numbers more palatable is to consider keeping the car for a long time (3-5 years minimum) after having the engine rebuilt, if that�s required. These cars are not going to be worth less in 3-5 years. Probably more.

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^^^^Mike nailed it

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Consider an Audi 2.7 tt swap. There is a thread on this in the forum.

My 2 cents: You need to step back and let your emotions settle . Right now you are too emotional to make a rational decision . Take some time to think about your next step . Get a 2nd opinion at a known quality shop . Do some internet research and get smart on options . You will know when it's time to make a decision . You can always sell the car as a project roller . Or part it out . Purchasing a used engine is an option but has risk . A quality rebuild is an option . In my opinion regardless of what option you pick you are going to lose money . So how much are you willing to lose ? It sounds like you really love the car . If it were me I would fix the car . Good luck with your decision .

Stopping to think for a while is always a good idea. The emotions are high, and I completely understand the desire to sell it now and not waste one more cent on the thing! I would feel that way too; it is a very valid option. Option 1) sell it now! Option 2) Having someone investigate the severity of the situation, and the damage (as suggested above with bore scoping, etc), might be warranted. Has the IMS bearing exploded completely, or is there just fine metal and play in the IMS at this point? Given your initial rough-running issues, it may be worse, but that's where expert advice comes in. You'll have to pay labor to tear into the engine at least a little bit. Somewhere on here are postings, from at least a couple of people, that caught IMS failure early, only had metal in the filter, but were able to salvage the engine. The engines were otherwise good, and no secondary damage had been done yet. So, they went ahead and replaced the bearings, flushed the oil several times with few miles, and to my understanding, have had a healthy car for 10s of thousands of miles. All aftermarket IMS-bearing providers will disown this approach, saying that the engine fails their pre-inspection to offer any warranty, and it is a risk! One errant piece of metal in a bearing will kill the engine. But for those owners, it was apparently worth trying anyway. It may not be for you if there is bearing damage, but it's an option others have tried. Option 2b) (EDIT. I forgot this one!) Rebuild your engine. It can get expensive, but afterwards you will probably have a more reliable engine with known provenance. Option 3) As suggested, just hold onto the car. Probably flush the oil to get most of the loose metal out, and just let it sit for a while. Time may bring better options, or at least brings new perspective that may make current options more viable. Option 4) Engine replacement. It's risky, but I think the least expensive option some have tried is to find a wrecked car with a good used Engine. The engines are still expensive, but it will get you running, for what I think has been the lowest cost. (I'm not an expert on the cost, more research needed.) There is the risk that the new-old engine will still be at risk to IMS bearing, bore scoring, etc... Some have even used smaller Boxter engines, which is unfortunate from a 911 purist point of view, but it will get you back on the road. Option 5) Engine Swap! LS that thing! Or a K20, or the Audi 2.7. Has anyone tried to put a Subaru boxter engine into a Porsche? Try that! Most of those engines are far cheaper than a new or rebuilt M96 engine. However it seems that you will pay the difference in labor and custom mechanical and electrical work that needs to be done to get everything running. It probably won't be any cheaper by the end, and especially since it sounds like you would be paying someone else to do it, it would not be a 'cheap' option. But you could get a running car, with a novel engine, which would then be cheaper to replace if needed again in the future. In the end, the 911 will never be worth as much as with an original M96 engine. But if your goal is to just drive and enjoy the car, this could maybe be a great option! Disclaimer: I personally have not done any of those things, and cannot accurately access the cost and risk. It is just a list of what I have seen done on this forum, and some of the pros/cons that people have discussed.

I had a friend who bought a 2003 996 and did not update the IMS bearing like I told him he should. A few years down the road, it blew up spectacularly. It was towed to my garage with the oil running off the back of the engine. Up on disassembly, the IMS bearing shaft has broken clean off. We bought a used engine off ebay and it was junk so it went back for a full refund. Swapping the engine for a known good rebuilt one on Ebay was the way to go for him. $14,000 all in, I think but that was a few years back now. On a separate occasion, another friend asked me to do an IMS bearing replacement for him on his 996.1 with a double-row bearing -- supposedly less prone to failing. After removing the bearing, it was obviously wabbling so it has already gone bad and just about to explode. While LNE is not going to warranty replacement bearing because of this, we replaced it anyway and the car is still running around here somewhere. So this can be an option, more risk but option anyway. As for me, I would always prefer to rebuild it and fix it myself. It's the devil I know.

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Let's hear it from the back row.

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I resemble that remark! Amen!

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Don�t make any quick decisions. Take your time to weigh your options. I�m not local but I�d be interested in it. But I couldn�t spend that much for a roller.

A $14-15k (used) engine is always going to be a crapshoot. If you do all the disassembly/assembly work yourself you�re still probably looking at $15-20k. If you have someone else do it, you�re looking at $20-30k or more�Whatever you decide to do, be realistic about costs - don�t jump at low ball estimates� Good Luck!

@djv When was the transmission removed most recently? Only to perform the IMS work? If so, when was that mileage wise? What are the camshaft deviations? Where are now located in the south?

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This is the reason why I sold my 996 n/a and got a 996TT. Sooner or later someone is going to have to drop the money to fix/replace the travesty of the M96 motor. Just buy a turbo for the extra 15-20k and be done with worrying about a motor grenading. Im sure ill get flammed for this, but it is legit good advice.

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Thank God mezgers never need rebuild. And if they do, they are really inexpensive to do it!

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dropping 15k in rebuilding a mezger motor in a car worth say 60k makes much more sense than rebuilding an M96 motor for 15k in a 30k car though...

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By $15k you mean parts only...right?

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unless things have changed since the last quote I got from a Porsche specialist, no. Refreshing a motor does not take much in terms of parts for the rebuild unless something has broken in the motor.

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I guess that would depend on what is the understanding of the word "refreshing".

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usually its stuff like rings, bearings, valve guides, gaskets, cam tensioner pads, etc. Assuming the rebuild is not from broken pieces, then parts are not too costly.

When a turbo motor breaks it’s definitely not a 15k job maybe 25 if nothing major I think your not adding corona tax

Engines are comprised of metal, plastic and rubber components. They all wear, they all will need an eventual rebuild. Unfortunately for you, your turbo mezger will be expensive. Start saving now...

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I have a good friend and fellow Porsche Hooligan who owns a 964 Turbo this past year had his engine and transmission rebuilt/refreshed at a cost of 50K ... The engine was leaking some oil, using some oil , a little smoke now and then, just generally tired and due...( yes the car has been tracked some and driven as designed) .. The trans was starting to grind on shifts....The work was done at a local Indy who is also a friend of ours and would join us on some Porsche Hooligan escapades..... The car was still drivable but the grinding trans was the straw that broke the Camels back and started the ball rolling. This guy has had the car a long time and it was driven regularly unlike most vintage Porsche turbo's.. New syncros', gears, bearings ect for the trans, .......new pistons, cylinders ,rings, bearings, pumps ect for the engine...Mezger Cup Car rebuilds were 35k up ( pre-pandemic ) and done every 50-100 hours....

I certainly would not promise a Turbo rebuild for $15K....

Hard parts for a 6TT rebuild run about $3k, gaskets, OEM bearing set, timing chains/guides. I have them sitting here in a box. Shop around. Head work - they all need exhaust valve guides - another $3k. Labor is "free" if I do it. This assumes I reuse the crank/rods/cases/pistons/oil pump. Remember the crank can be reground and the cases can be line bored if needed. In reality I'd up to 3.8 using 997TT cylinders & pistons and probably upgrade the rods. I have quotes for $25k for a turnkey fully built 800hp capable Mezger from several reputable shops. It's certainly possible to spend more. The transmission.... that's another story. Plan $15k minimum. I spent nearly $20k but ended up with essentially a new cup car gearbox. Oh it's so nice. I didn't like writing that check though.

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rock on. this is pretty much what I was talking about as far as a refresh goes for the motor.

Car sounds like a keeper, if it were me I would consider a rebuild. FSI is changing things up a bit and selling through LN engineering now, but I would certainly investigate that option. I just got my 997 FSI 4.0 back and am still on my break in period so the engine is limited to 5k rpms, but it feels like a totally different car, it was completely worth it. It is a lot of $ but at the end of the day you will have a lot of car for the $

None of this arguing is helping @djv decide what to do, either. Perhaps a reman short block from Porsche would be the quickest and least expensive way to get back on the road.

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I would LS swap before I would spend $ to have to worry about all the same issues again.

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I would do the same. more power, more reliability, ~same weight. It is a HUGE pain in the *** to do, but I think it would be worth it.

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I certainly don�t regret the 4.0 FSI route, as an instructor I have driven/ridden in a ton of different cars and it is something special. TBH I had myself set to be disappointed because I didn�t want to expect too much. I am far from disappointed and the thing is limited to 5k rpms and detuned 😂. All that said the price tag isn�t for everyone and I would never do it if it wasn�t a �forever car�.

My M96 has been more reliable than 50% of the LS engines in my immediate family...( cracked head ,DOD failure, AFM failure, water pumps, coils packs ect) If I hated the m96 I would put bone stock Audi 2.7TT in it and turn up the boost.... 380ft/lbs of Torque at 2500 rpm....no other engine can touch this( with the little stock turbo's..for $1500). Can a LS 6.0 n/a put out that kind of low end grunt??

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FSI makes an awesome motor for sure, but the price for the motor is damn near more than the car is worth. Last time I looked they are more 25k if memory serves.

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you must have looked pre-COVID 😁. I paid a bit more than that for my Stage 2 and prices went up quite a bit after August 2021 when I secured my spot. Now I am not sure how they will price it going through LN. You really do get a lot though for that $ compared to some other builders (new clutch, new injectors, lifters, AOS, etc). A lot of that is optional if you go through someone else. I also did all of the removal and installation. Like I said, not for everyone and is something that you don�t really think about value, it is just �do I want it�.

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yeah, it was in the before times when I was researching it. Id imagine they'd prolly cost 30k or more at this point.

Three things. First, if it's a forever car, it's worth it to spend the money on whatever powerplant you want. Your call on whatever it is. Not worried about what the car will be worth in the future. It will most likely go up over time depending on the engine you use. Second, if it's not your forever car, then why do you have it to begin with. No 20+ year old sports car is cheap. Get rid if it and find your forever car. Third, if you are so caught up in costs and values, you should buy yourself a 2 year old Honda. You really shouldn't own a 20+ year old Porsche. You are just asking for money to fly out if your pocket.

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agreed 1,000%! This is exactly the decisions I would make. If it�s my forever car, I�d get an engine from LN (when they start.). I think they�ll all be stage 2?

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Only issue the OP might have is I think they are going to be picky on what they take for cores, so the condition of his motor will be important

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Since this has turned into a philosophical discussion, ill toss my two cents in. Even with toys it wise to think about money and resale value even if it is a forever toy IMO. Spending 30+k on an engine on a 25k car just seems odd to me when you can get a 996TT that has a better motor, AWD, and the wide body with better looks all for the same amount of money. There is no right or wrong answer here obviously. Im just a numbers and sense kind of person with a passion for Porsche.

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most likely but I think they�ll be able to fix nearly anything. You might get charged more in the exchange but I can�t see them taking nothing.

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I think it all depends what you want. I don�t think you can compare a turbo and an N/A. Two completely different driving experiences. Ex: The turbo is heavier due to the awd. A gt3 is a totally different story tho.

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Hey! What's wrong with a two year old Honda!!??😜

I missed my shot at a 996TT back in 2006 . When the 996 values had first really hit the tank ( even the Turbo) . We had a clean one owner 2001 996TT with 50k miles that traded in for $29K .....Being a Dealership employee I could have bought it for $200 over cost, I hesitated...lol

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for starters it looks ridiculous and to end I get enough rice at home.

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There were $40-$50k 996tts available in 2016, 2017 as well. I was thinking of grabbing one back then.

Quotes source post: 18497048

Sure, I was the same way 21 years ago when I bought mine. Then it became a forever car and everything changed. By the way, I saved a ton of money not flipping sports cars over the years. Every new sports car has a depreciation cycle. If you have enough if them, you get hammered. I rode the cycle down on the 996 and I am now riding it up. My sunk costs are less as well as my maintenence and upgrades are less than upgrading to new models every so often. Work the math, you will see. But I agree with you, the 996 turbo is very cheap right now and you get alot for the money. But I would have to put 1x my purchase price of $50-60k into it to get it to where I want it to handle and perform like my C2. Crazy silly financial decision since my C2 will appreciate along with the turbo.

Quotes source post: 18497089

You're very funny aren't you. 306 turbo hp 295 ft# tor. in a 3,100 lb car brings a lot of fun to the game and looks are in the eye of the beholder. I would have figured you would eat more sauerbraten at home than rice as you are a turbro...

Quotes source post: 18497048

A 99xTT vs a 99x 4.0 FSI is apples to oranges. �Better� is very subjective and until you drive both you can�t really compare the two. As far as $ it all comes down to what does that amount of $ mean to you. People spend 6-7 figures on sports cars that depreciate $30k when they drive them off the lot.

Quotes source post: 18497083

I love Hondas! Had a civic back in the day. No slight and in fact it was a compliment.

Quotes source post: 18497106

I was just going along with the fun! It's all good.

This is really not a bad idea at all. The failure rate on a reman is low, and one could find a good deal, enough to nearly have 2 failed engines for the price of one great engine. Maybe people have rolled the dice on the car anyway, why not roll again? Statistically, it�s better to keep rolling the dice.

We were having so much fun I think we Officially hi-jacked the OP's thread. He is still in shock over the IMSB failure....( but it's not like he didn't know about it, hell everyone knows about it I think)

Quotes source post: 18497120

He is in the midst of a 1 week bender

Quotes source post: 18497136

LMAOOOO.. We need to start a counseling service for IMBS failure recovery.....

Quotes source post: 18497120

Wait...what is this IMBS thing you speak of?

Quotes source post: 18497096

There were $22k 996TT's available in 2020.

Quotes source post: 18497248

One of these days, you have to give us the rundown on all you have done with your turbo. You have had some big projects.

Quotes source post: 18497169

Uht oh!! Amnesia ??????? Yea, we need to set up some counseling for IMSB Shock and Amnesia........lol I know a really good Porsche Counselor ... She is a Professional Sports Counselor, and also a Pro Porsche Driver and gives lessons on Performance Driving...... I need to let her know we have a Pandemic about to emerge...

I nside M achine S omething B ad

Don�t get me started on car acronyms! Phased Out Racer, Still Can�t Hold Engine.