996 Product Development: Who Makes Your Headers?

Of course you might know the name of the company, but do you actually know WHO makes your exhaust products? Here is a video of one of our top fabricators, Ben, working on some 996 & 997 Carrera Sport Headers. >> Who Makes Your Headers? | Fabspeed Fabrication << At Fabspeed Motorsport, we believe there is much more to a successful business than a great product. In any competitive industry, when a company designs and creates a great product others are sure to follow suit. This can be great for innovation and progress of an industry, but it can be hard for a customer to tell which companies are rooted in deep industry knowledge and which companies are just trying to fake it �til they make it. There is one thing that will always help to distinguish these two apart and that is asking good questions. Can they tell you the name of the person who fabricated your product? Can they tell you why a product is made a certain way? Can they tell you which other prototypes they tested and why they picked the final version they are selling to you? Here are our 996 Carrera Sport Headers next to their OEM counterpart. Our system adds 26 WHP, 20 ft/lbs of TQ, and saves 2 lbs. compared to the heavier, restrictive OEM headers. Our Carrera Sport Headers are constructed using T304 stainless steel, the highest grade used in exhaust products. The craftsmanship is evident in each and every weld which you can clearly see on all Fabspeed products; we have no reason to add a finish, paint, or cover to our product, which hides imperfections and creates that mass-produced �off the conveyor belt� look. We want to draw attention to the quality of our hand-crafted products, not hide it. Everyone is welcome to stop by our shop in Fort Washington, PA, and you can meet the people who originally designed and developed your product, the people who personally crafted each weld, and the people who helped you through your entire buying process. We have a ton of in-depth fabrication videos in the works, so keep an eye out and if anybody has anything they would specifically like to see let us know in the comments below. If anybody has any other questions just leave a comment or you can reach me privately via PM, email, or phone.

Before I purchased my headers, I did a lot of research, what I found was alarming. This modification to my 996 was the most difficult to decide on, because of misleading advertising. There are many famous "BRAND" name headers that are sourced from Southeast Asia, and the same header can be purchased for pennies on the dollar. Don't be fooled by claims like made of "German Steel" in a description and think they are from Germany, always ask "Country of Origin" Look for equal length primary tubes, with no seems. Look at the images carefully, and you will begin to see multiple brands having same images. I was buffonoed on my first selection. I ordered a pair from a European Performance Part Manufacturer (Very Popular). When the headers arrived, there was one primary tube on each side seemed together, this was done because the radius needed to form the tube could not be made properly. This manufacturer actually photo shopped their image on their own website, removing the welded seem, which then leads to all the retailer selling their headers using a bogus image. Lesson learned, sent them back across ocean to get money back I have a sheet metal fabricator and welding backround. Fabspeed are good headers with a good design on collector. NO AFFILIATION WITH FABSPEED

Fab speed makes mine. 😃

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Your headers look very nice. Question on the hp/tq claims. Is it safe to assume you that you have the dyno sheets from the tests showing this gain? If so, would you release them. Is the claimed gain repeatable? BTW your website states 15hp and 12tq for the 996 version headers...assume your above numbers are more recent?

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I have a question. Not being a smartass either, i really want to understand. I recently purchased a 04 C4S. Completely bone stock car. I have since installed your Competition Carbon Fiber Intake and my lightly used Maxflo Muffler will be delivered tomorrow. Your statement above says the system provides 26 whp. What does system mean? I just read on the website that the header (for my application) add 15hp. The Intake adds 25whp. And the mufflers add 12 whp. That adds up to 52hp with all 3. Please explain the confusion. And i know its wrong to say this. But my butt dyno didn't feel the power when i did the intake and i'm sure i won't with the exhaust either. Now i won't disagree that some power may be added and without question the car sounds a hell of alot better. But $ for $, i find it hard to see the value/price in these products. It almost feels like they Porsche Tax was applied. And for thoses who ask why i spent the money. I did not pay nearly the retail prices listed on Fabspeeds website.

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+1

What exactly is the issue with tubes that have welded seams in them to make the bend instead of a single bend? And does that single difference (no welded seams) really cost 1440$ in production costs? I mean, these are 160$; I'm a physicist first and foremost, and the only thing that makes any sense from that point of view is the equal-length headers. Well-placed welds don't add a restriction to the flow as long as the bends are still smooth, and those welds itself look fine. T304 steel seems to be the market standard, most if not all boast that. So what makes your product worth 1600$ while the ones with a weld-seam in the middle are 160$? It's literally 10-fold. Were they forged by wood-elves during full moon? In all seriousness though, I'd be happy to hear where that other 1440$ go to in terms of performance and/or quality. It kinda does seem like Porsche Tax to me.

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One other visual difference is in the mounting flange to the head. The fabspeed flange looks like a two-piece arrangement similar to the Porsche one, whereas the Low cost one looks to be one solid piece. I’m not suggesting this explains the cost delta, or that one is superior to the other, only that it is an obvious difference.

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+2

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Hey wildbilly32, Great question. Not just for Fabspeed but in general if you see differing gain numbers on a particular product, it usually can be attributed to various RPM ranges being referred to. For example, the 26 WHP and 20 ft/lbs. of TQ we�re referring too is gained right around the 4,000 RPM mark. Most companies, us included, most often use the numbers that are the highest wherever they may lie in the RPM range. This can be referred to as the maximum delta. The next most common number used are the peak gains, which is what is currently listed on our website. This is the increase in highest possible numbers and what most people assume they are reading whenever they see gain numbers. Here is the Dyno Chart comparing our Fabspeed Porsche 996 Carrera Sport Headers to a Porsche 996 Carrera that is bone stock.

I have a 99 Cab with Fabspeed headers, and a 99 Coupe with Asian headers. Another difference I noticed is in the area inside where the three pipes are welded to the collector. The Fabspeed header has a cleaner weld that is more contoured that will obviously flow better. The Fabspeed headers were already on the Cab when I bought it, no idea on age. The Asian headers I bought when they first were available about 10 years ago, I paid $79 for them. Neither set of headers have had any leaks, cracks, or anything like that, just bolt on and forget it. Are the Fabspeed headers higher quality and out horsepower the Asian ones? Absolutely !! Are they 10 times better, or in my case 20 times better? You have to answer that yourself. I'm past the horsepower stage in my life, but when I was in the competition and racing, I had a saying "if you want an extra 100 horsepower, find one horsepower in 100 different places"...

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A few more questions: So was the same car used in this test? I.E.: Run a dyno with stock headers, change to the FS headers, then run the same car again. If so how far apart in time? I don't see any temperature/humidity nor time indicators? Or was it two different cars? What about repeatability? This appears to be a one run comparison.

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T321SS ??

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When a manufacturer posts the power gains from a specific part like you listed, you can't assume that adding each number together is what the total increase will be. Getting a decent power increase from one modification isn't too surprising but when you start combining aftermarket parts together, the total output increase gets less predictable. Also, tuning the ECU is important. In some cases, adding an aftermarket part can actually decrease performance if not tuned. One thing I have learned from being a car enthusiast (likes all cars) is that cars like BMWs and Porsches with NA engines, most engine modifications aren't worth it. You spend a lot and really don't get much bang for the buck. Turbo cars are a completely different story. Hondas tend to be the best when it comes to bang-for-buck. You don't pay "Porsche or BMW Taxes". Since parts are readily available, prices are low. I'm literally building a Honda J35 engine to 3.6L using mostly OEM parts from different J-Series engines. It will put out around the same power as the 3.6L M96. The total will be under $3000, too. I'm keeping a log of what I spend on it. I've found the best bang-for-the-buck modifications for these cars generally come from parts like short shifters, brake pads, tires, and suspension. Aftermarket exhaust and intakes don't give much performance increase. The main benefit is the sound.

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Hey user 63031, Thanks for taking the time to comment. I think Porschetech3 hit the nail on the head with �if you want an extra 100 horsepower, find one horsepower in 100 different places.� Your $160 might get you 60-70% of the way, maybe even more depending on how well they�re made. However, with a lot of things in life, when it comes to making progress once you are at the top level it becomes exponentially more difficult. For example, almost any sports car can get to 180 mph, but that next jump from 180 to 200 mph is exponentially more difficult. If you want pretty good, there are several companies that can help you achieve that. At Fabspeed we aim to offer the best exhaust products available. To answer your first question, there are a couple issues with using tubes that have welded seams. In general, it is a weakening joint. It creates an area that is statistically more prone to failure than full mandrel bent tubing. It can also leave small pieces of metal protruding on the inside of the tubing. This can create some resistance to airflow a lower performance - it is not likely to be noticeable to the driver, but when racing, every little bit of performance counts. Over time, these small pieces of metal can get hot enough to dislodge from the header themselves and cause damage to catalytic convertors or other areas. The better a welded seam is performed, the lower the chances are any of these issues occurring, however it is much better to just avoid the issue all together especially if you are not familiar with the people actually performing the welds. Porschetech3 was also correct when they mentioned our merge collector. While they may look the same on the outside, our F-1 style merge collectors are extremely refined on the inside providing optimized exhaust scavenging. Merge collectors are one of the most common, and difficult to solve, issues with headers as bringing those three pipes into one creates a situation where the tiniest piece being off can cause airflow turbulence. As a physicist, I�m sure you are very familiar with the negatives surrounding airflow turbulence and how it can greatly reduce performance. As Coopduc pointed out, our flanges are quite different from the product you shared a photo of and large area of focus for us. We have been through various types of flanges as we centered in on the optimal setup to ensure the best fitment time and time again when installed. One of the huge differentiators between one of our products and a cheaper alternative is the R & D behind the product. I can guarantee the product you got for $160 was not developed by the company that fabricated it. This has been happening for quite some time in our industry as well as many others; a company develops a great product and other companies knock it off for cheaper. I would always recommend performing your research on products and companies before purchasing which is why we welcome these questions, but in general my experience has been you usually get what you pay for. If any number of issues arise, they don�t know what decisions were made and why they were made in terms of developing a particular product. They just know how to closely copy a product that performs well. All of our products have been rigorously tested both on dynos and driving sessions, and we can tell you why we made each decision we made during the development process. We test various prototypes for each individual product so you know the version you are buying is the best available. We are also constantly upgrading our products as technology advances ensuring our products are always the most up to date. Another huge aspect is overall quality, particularly quality of the material and quality of the labor. Even if a company claims to use T304 stainless steel, it can be difficult to tell the exact quality of their materials. There are varying degrees of quality even amongst T304 stainless steel and I would be wary that a company selling their product for that price point is using the highest quality material available. The quality of our labor is also the best. They may not be �wood-elves under a full moon,� but we have extremely talented fabricators putting maximum effort into each and every weld as opposed to cheap overseas laborers that are just trying to meet a quota of products for the day. The last point I wanted to touch on here, but certainly not the last aspect that differentiates our company, is the customer experience and support when purchasing a Fabspeed product. We make it a top priority to take care of our customers from the moment they reach out about a sale and continuing as long as they own a Fabspeed product. We offer a limited-lifetime warranty, the most robust in the industry that is now transferrable to secondary owners. We also are always here to answer any questions/issues that a customer may have during their time owning a Fabspeed product. When the company you purchased your product form designed, developed, made multiple prototypes, updated several versions, and has been successfully selling a product for over a decade there is a wealth of knowledge there that is simply not able to replicated by copying a successful product blueprint. We know our price is on the higher end, but when you buy a Fabspeed product you are getting the best and you know it. You can rest easy knowing the company always has your back with support and with our limited-lifetime warranty. You can stop by the shop and shake the hand of the person who fabricated your product. You can speak to the team who spent hours designing and developing several prototypes. I hope that answers your question but if you have any more questions just let me know and I�d be happy to discuss it further.

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Mbren1979, Sorry I skipped over your question! I hope my other response about the power gains clears a bit up about this particular product. As far as combining products goes, Prelude Guy is right in that it becomes increasingly difficult to predict exact gains as you combine aftermarket parts. If you are thinking about a particular setup, we can check our Dyno files and see if we have stock compared to that exact setup. Speaking one on one with one of our Performance Specialists would also give you a better idea of what to expect from a particular build. I just sent you a PM as I�d be happy to go over this with you. As far as your own Dyno results go, I�m not sure what the issue is based on the current information. We have well documented power gains for our products with the Dyno results to back it up. That is something I would be happy to discuss with you further as well and hopefully we can figure out what the issue is and how to get your car up to the performance tier you want, no matter Dyno, street, or track it is testing on. Wildbilly32, Yes all of these runs were on the same car done two days apart after the installation was complete. We don�t have temperature or humidity notes on these files, but these runs were performed in February, on our Dyno that is located indoors, so I don�t think that temperature or humidity would fluctuate between those two sessions. Our results have been consistent as we have tested over the years. Here is a chart with 2 stock runs and 3 after runs. As you can see, we have not chosen to use the absolute highest numbers we could have if we wanted to compare the best run with our headers to the worst stock run. We chose to use the numbers that were most accurate and repeatable during our testing. Byprodriver, Great question! T321 stainless steel is high quality and has some benefits over T304L in some applications, but T304L has a much lower amount of carbon and is less prone to cracking. We use T321 in some products but opt for T304L in most cases. I�m not an expert on stainless steel but our R & D and Fabrication departments are and they consider a lot of variables when determining which materials would be best for which products. Thanks for the good questions!!!

This is Joe Fabiani the president of Fabspeed Motorsport. I have been a Porsche Club Member for over 30 years and a certified DE instructor, and PCA club racer for 15 years and I understand these air-cooled and watercooled Porsche cars as I have bought , driven and raced virtually all of them. Not being arrogant but I know these cars like an encyclopedia as many long term established Porsche businesses and hard core enthusiasts do too. When one evaluates a header design there are many variables that determine torque and horsepower gains and where the gains are distributed across the RPM band. Real hardcore racing engine builders from NASCAR to Formula 1 will also change all these variables to "move the power bands" for different race track venues as its mission critical. Porsche Porsche AG and OEM manufacturers they choose a power level to release for marketing/ sales and then their suppliers BUILD as cheap, fast, and efficiently as is possible for all their cars including the GT3 and GT2RS . Any internal combustion engine, ICE, is simply an air pump that wants to breathe easy/ efficiently and burn fuel/air and exhale easily/ efficiently through lower back-pressure designed exhaust systems that by the way give superlative sports car sound. Nothing has changed these thermodynamics and principles for ICE. Fabspeed Motorsport has been making Porsche street and competition headers for aircooled and watercooled cars for over 25 years. From time to time we actually have our Fabspeed engineering and design team revisit OLD headers to make improvements in quality and performance and fitment. From the 911/964/993 to the very latest 911 cars "all turbocharged" like 991.2 C4S Twin Turbo to the Porsche 981 GT4 style Boxster Cayman cars. Fabspeed has designed, engineered, incrementally dyno developed and perfected these headers for the street, Drivers ED/ PCA/POC Club racers and to Professional Race series IMSA champions. The Cayman Trophy series sanctioning body selected Fabspeed headers after independently testing Fabspeed 987/987.2/981 race headers versus several German and USA brands. Fabspeed won decisively and was chosen for power, quality and short delivery times. Some of the variables in designing a header: flange size, flange design, port size, tube size, primary length, merge collector style triangular or flat, collector style high velocity merge, collector outlet size, collector outlet length, material substrate, wall thickness and etc. There have been many PCA technical chairman who have conducted independent testing of Fabspeed headers, systems and Twin Turbo exhaust systems and catbypass pipes over the past 25 years. Fabspeed has WON shoot-outs on exhaust comparisons. Fabspeed has been featured on multiple TV shows for Porsche and Ferrari exhaust systems and engine builds. Every day we get orders from premier enginer builders for air and wasser-cooled Porsche cars Everything Fabspeed releases works great as my team is fully invested and passionate about Exotic cars and the car culture. We have built a Brand and great reputation in the Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin and Mclaren communities. Some of the headers recently shown on Rennlist are 100% Chinese headers that are poor designs made with cheap materials and poor welding. Typically you have to use a cheater bar and flame wrench to make these headers fit and if you FORCE them in place you have introduced pre-load on the cylinder heads and pre-load remainder of the exhaust systems and after a certain amount of heat cycles everything breaks or other associated parts also break. BEWARE of cheap knock-offs and new CHINESE products as the materials are dirt cheap and all the ideal header variables mentioned above are wrong and 100% compromised. There is no design, no engineering, and no dyno development. These headers are simply slapped together and polished. Some of the recent headers shown by underfunded start-up companies are simply cheap Chinese headers that are sand blasted to clean off dirt, grim, lousy welds and hide flaws. The thieves then put a spin on it all or as they say in racing "polish the turd" by marketing a sand blasted product as a premium signature finish! Sand blasting/bead blasting is for cleaning/ removing scale, and carbon deposits from engine blocks and cylinder heads. Sandblasting media blasting is intended for quickly removing rust and peeling paint from farm equipment and barnacles off the bottom of boats!

SO THERE!!! P.S.: Can we have Scott back now? He was doing an excellent job explaining the product and answering questions. Sad that you must feel that "we" need to be "scolded" like small children because we dare ask questions. Wow...just Wow!

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I actually appreciate the "big cheese" stepping in to defend and promote his product and shows his passion for the best...I just wish I could afford a set, the are nice! Good stuff.

So I have gone through about a dozen exhaust configurations for my 996....starting with cheap knockoffs, then super cups (wonderful on the track) but finally went with Maxflos which were a great blend between street and Track. My general feeling is for off the shelf I do like fabspeed the best for a relatively stock 3.4L car. My son is saving up for a 996 and that is what I would recommend for him. However, since I upgraded my 996 MkI to a 997S engine I did go custom and I think this one is hard to beat from Dundon Motorsports. The 4 pipe header design (I think the patent is pending) is unique, light weight and extracts an amazing amount of horsepower making the car out perform just about any similar sized engines. Charles Dundon is a genius. And the result is art both aesthetically and acoustically...and I absolutely love it! I think this is the best header/exhaust but aint cheap.

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Have to agree with this.. I was about to say that I appreciated the extended technical replies by OP, but then saw Joe's aggressive sales pitch full of empty rhetoric. Calling Chinese manufacturers thieves and so on - it goes a bit far, don't you think? Do you have intellectual property on these things? You're certainly not the inventor of tubular headers so don't act like Chinese manufacturers stole something from you. I'm not sure where the need to aggressively rip on these manufacturers comes from, if the quality of your own product were to actually speak for itself. If the company president feels threatened enough to come down to a discussion forum high and mighty to 'protect' us from products made by their EVIL CHINESE competition, well maybe they're just not as bad as you want to make them seem then. The set from my picture sure doesn't look 'sand blasted'. I wonder if you ever even held/tested a Chinese set yourself, and if you did I challenge you to dyno them. @lowpue, those do look nice, though I don't think they'll get a patent for that. The fourth tube is a generic resonance tube, to counter exhaust drone. The same principle is in your airbox in the form of a helmholtz resonator. Usually these sit within mufflers, but since you've gone full after-market this was required to not have a droning exhaust on the highway. It does nothing for performance, unfortunately.

I really didn't read the response as having scolded anyone - but that't the thing about interpretation.... just because I may not agree with your point of view doesn't detract from it... I'm not qualified to speak on behalf of Fabspeed - but I'm sure (logically) that wasn't the intent. That said - from a background of US based manufacturing - I understand the passion about MANY Chinese made products... we put time, money, our lives - into the development of a product only to have it knocked off by some company that did none of it, then cut corners, then saturate the market with something that (technically) may be 60% as good - it's just a matter of pride.... domestic manufacturers are, in my opinion, a protective and proud bunch. Knock off their products - no matter how good - it's like messing with their baby. I get it - it's a premium for Fabspeed products... they may not be for everyone - and they may or may not make points that resonate with any of us on a personal or logical level - but for me - I understand the value. Value proposition is different for everyone... for me, it made sense (full disclosure - I was fortunate to find all of my exhaust from Forum members here on the used market - but still payed WAY more used than I would have new with some Ebay components).

If anyone believes that $105 headers sold on Ebay are just as good or even nearly as good as the headers sold by Fabspeed, please step up, purchase them, install them on your car, and let us know the results one year later. I would love to hear your story. I searched the forums and can't seem to find anyone who has reported "these $105 headers are awesome" a year after installation. Headers from Porsche cost $1,200 a pair. One muffler costs $2,000 - $2,700 . I didn't add it all up but the entire system from Porsche costs at least $9,000, probably more. How do they get away with it? I can get the exact same thing from Ebay for $359!. If anyone's looking for some racing seats for their Porsche 911, I see a pair on Ebay brand new for only $197! (for both and shipping is included!). *** Rennlist *** Challenge *** I will purchase these $122.94 headers and install them ON MY CAR if the Rennlist community pays for the labor for the install. The Ebay auction number is 201254177070. Then we shall know for sure what the Chinese are hiding !!! or not !!! I also live about 40 minutes from Fabspeed. Maybe they will dyno my car before and after......hmmmm...

I appreciate Joe weighing in. I think his comments did not amount to "scolding" but more so a warning about cheap aftermarket components. That is a very good warning for anyone. Of course he is going to promote his company and products. That is entirely legitimate to me. Fabspeed has been a good and responsive Rennlist sponsor. I am totally biased - I love my Fabspeed exhaust!

I also come from a background in engineering and manufacturing, and worked for a very large OE manufacturer of automotive products with nearly 200 manufacturing locations all over the world, in both high cost and low cost countries. I understand the frustration of US and EU companies that have their IP stolen and produced in low cost countries, but don’t assume that all products produced in China are that way. There many US and European companies that engineer products in their home countries, then have them manufactured in plants they own that are located in China, typically with the management team ex-pats living on location. This is a way to control quality while taking advantage of the low cost environment, thereby greatly reducing product cost to the consumer.

My point was not to defend Chinese manufacturing nor besmirch the reputation or claims of FS. My questions were to gain clarification of the claimed hp/tq gains and how the numbers were arrived on. This is a forum. fo�rum ˈf�rəm a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. Face it if I put every after market part on that advertised a hp gain my NA 996 would be well over 400 whp, which we all know is unreasonable by simply bolting stuff on. Therefore, my questions concerning the Dyno claims. Scott was doing an admirable job fielding the questions, answering and supplying information. I understand and appreciate pride in product. What I don't understand is the: "I've owned, driven and raced every Porsche ever built, been a PCA and Rennlist member since the invention of time..."(to me that says: I know more than anybody on this forum. How dare you question my product). Decisions are made by gaining information by asking questions and the representation/interchange concerning one's product is extremely important at least to me. I did not intend to start a pissing match particularly with a site sponsor, just gain some information.

Guys and Wild Billy I apologize if I came off rude or condescending – that was not my intention. I simply meant to point out the vast difference between our company's design, engineering and manufacturing of performance parts versus cheaply made Chinese alternatives. The Fabspeed team and I am very passionate and proud of the work we do at Fabspeed Motorsport and we hate to see fellow hardcore enthusiasts getting duped by companies that don’t care about their products, quality, deliverables, or customers. Its simply a money grab. Scott will supply more dyno data as we have volumes of Dynos over the years from 1999 996 cars to the end of production 2004 X51 996 cars. Have a great week.

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I thought your earlier post was great and contained a lot of useful information. At least you are actively involved here! There are many vendors Rennlisters are purchasing from who haven't posted here once and provide zero financial support. Keep up the good work and thank you for creating jobs here in the United States for the last 20+ years!

Hey Joe - I can attest to FS quality and satisfied customers...just look at these cans after 15 years of service...love the tail pipes and the engraved Fabspeed on the tailpipes. Many compliments

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Well said Joe. I'll share my only personal experience with some of the Chinese made products.... when I first got my 996 with its stock 3.4 - one of the first things that I noticed was that the headers actually became the lowest point on the car. I remember my indy pointed them out and told me then that I might want to think about either getting stock headers for the car - or some quality ones... long story short - "yeah, it's on my list" quickly became "what the hell was that?" after a weekend down at Sebring, seems that they can only take so much before getting a hole torn in the bottom. Now, I'm not saying that Fabspeed would have held up any better to repeated hits - but what I am saying is this... they wouldn't have engineered them that way to begin with. When I did my 3.4 to 3.8 conversion I refused to put anything but a true reputable product on my car... there is a short list of companies that I would put on that list - Fabspeed being one of them. I've been quite happy so far.

Dislosure: I have NOTHING against aftermarket companies. I love having aftermarket options for all of my cars. I prefer more than less. Fabspeed seems like a great company. Keep up the R&D! Ok, with that said, this thread turned out to be pretty important. I think one thing good about this thread is that it points to a phenomenon in the car world that doesn't get talked about much. Lots of people recommending parts based on several differing reason, many not related to actual performance. Modifications for BMWs and Porsches tend to resemble the watch industry. Lots of people will recommend a certain brand, while most of these recommendations are solely based on everything other than the functionality of the watch itself. Nothing wrong with that, but it does cause a problem for those of us who actually want to buy a watch based on performance and functionality over looks and build quality. Many expensive aftermarket parts for these cars mainly cater to people who rate exclusivity higher on their priority list than actual performance. Nothing wrong with that, but just be aware of it. I can't say this enough. These engines just don't respond to mods the way many of us wish they would. I know it can be hard to accept, but that is a reality. The reason why this thread was good is because it put the people who rate exclusivity over performance in a debate with people who put performance over exclusivity. Just look at the people who recommend the aftermarket parts. It's like someone telling you how much they love their Rolex because of how nice it is built and how beautiful it is and feel good about how much it cost them when all you want is a watch that tells time and has a stopwatch feature. My suggestion to people who want performance increases, be VERY careful when getting advice. Public forums tend to favor the people who don't share your goals. You will be directed to spend lots of money for parts that don't get you much closer to your goals after spend gobs gobs of money.

Prelude Guy, I tend to agree with you....however, I am a data guy....and so we did dyno runs with my 996 with the 997 engine....so here is a comparison of a stock 997.1 S engine with the same engine with the Dundon exhaust....I think its pretty impressive, no?

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Ha!!! Those look like they're either new, or they've been cleaned and polished very recently (like right before you took the photo...). I've got Maxflo's on mine too and they are indeed high quality pieces. That being said, being where they reside (right behind the rear wheels) they get quite dirty and covered with gunk that basically bakes on. While they did clean up quite well, it took some elbow grease

Yes, they were cleaned and polished just before the photo. The project was replacing the AOS, so the back end was removed for dropping the engine to the cross member. I clean everything when doing a project. My wife was over in the grass scrubbing the heat shields and bumper. First time I ever had the rear bumper/heat shields off, so cleanup was needed. My point was, with a bit of cleaning and polishing, they still looked very good after 15 years of wear and tear.

Interesting discussion. One point about the Chinese el-cheapo items - the Chinese in general do not respect copyright or patent law. The Fabspeed welder probably gets $25 or $30 per hour, while the Chinese welder probably gets $3 or $4 per hour (or yen). And the Chinese have no OSHA, or DOT or Dept of Labor, or unions, or.... So a company like Fabspeed can pour a bunch of $$ into product development and design, optimizing the performance, fit, manufacturing processes etc and produce a very good product at a price that is profitable for them. Along comes the Chinese developer who buys one of Fabspeed's products and simply copies it and starts selling at a far lower price. In many cases, the resulting Chinese product IS just as good as the original, in others, not so much. But what is being done here is slowly eroding the viability and long term survival of businesses like Fabspeed. If all that matters to you is the cost, buy the Chinese knockoff. But know that in doing so, you are slowly killing businesses like Fabspeed and others who truly do innovate and create new stuff, comply with US laws, and pay their workers a living wage in a modern society. In addition, you are subsidizing something that I find to be morally and ethically repugnant that is rotting the foundation of free enterprise and capitalism. Thus endeth the sermon, may I have an amen from the choir?

I would argue against them being copies, there are significant differences in design / shape while the underlying principles (which are common knowledge, not patented) are the same / similar. Stating that those headers are copies of Fabspeed headers specifically is a claim that must be met with solid evidence, imo. Fabspeed's headers are nice for sure, however they are not unique in design and are not patented. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are built on commonly known principles. Equal-length headers are nothing new. Fabspeed will most probably have better details and tolerances - up to you to decide if those are worth the money.

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If you think these Chinese companies are doing product development, you truly are gull - a - bull. Every day they are stealing our designs (patented or not) and then selling products at a big profit with none of the overhead or the initial investment the US developer has to put in. We are allowing the Chinese to undermine our economy with these stolen copies. They just watch what sells, copy it, and sell it cheap, and people like you buy it and celebrate the savings. I think its wrong. I can't afford the Fabspeed headers. I would choose theirs if I were to buy, but I can't. I will have to settle for my $250 Fabspeed intake.

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I'm not here to fight ad-hom's, thanks. I think I stated it clearly - 'tubular exhaust headers' as a concept is old. Common knowledge. Any welder with the right tools can make them from scratch - yes, Chinese ones too. Ultimately all they need is the dimensions for the ports and a ruler to make sure the tubes are equal-length. Then you have the companies like Fabspeed who do additional research, and optimize the headers with optimal bend patterns (these differ significantly from Chinese headers) and a special collector, optimized for flow for this particular vehicle. If the Chinese headers were copies, they would have all these features - they don't, so how are they copies? They don't implement (and thus they don't benefit from) the features Fabspeed developed, so how are they copies? I'm saying that for a general run-off-the-mill tubular equal-length header, you don't need development. It's been done, the concept has been proven long ago, and as long as you stick to the basic principles you will receive the main benefits of the concept. I'm saying Fabspeed takes it one step further for slight additional gains, while China doesn't bother with it so it's just cheap - but still they're probably not half bad. I'm also saying 'China' didn't steal Fabspeed's particular design, or we would've seen more similarities specifically in the area's Fabspeed developed in.

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Agreed! mine cleaned up really well also - no rust at all, just baked on road gunk, tar, etc.

then there's this.. this was on my 996 C2 when I bought it. please explain the reason 2 stainless elbows and 2 tips cost $700.00 Mr. FabSpeed

..

Some of these prices are EXPENSIVE and I guess one can charge what the market will bear. For kicks and giggles I went to a trusted national speed shop to check on headers for hot rods/race cars located here(Speedway Motors). While I don't know country of origin the most expensive headers I could find for a Chevy V8 was named Hi-Performance ceramic coated offered by Magna-Flow were just short of $900. I could not see any additional welds in the actual tubes and includes all gaskets, bolts, nuts for installation plus an extra tube per side...so there is that. Heck I used to own, maintain and drive a 360 Sprint car and the headers for that, while just dumps(no muffler attachments) had equal tubes and built for performance were about half of that cost. Of course neither of the above were finished pretty!

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+1 Well written

Hey everyone, Thanks for all of your input. We have never hidden the fact that we offer premium products at a premium price. This is not what everyone is looking for and that�s completely understandable. Luckily, we are in a competitive and passionate industry with a ton of options to fit your personal needs. There are countless items that are factors in our price point, we only went into detail on a few of them above. If you want to buy something that was made with the cheapest T304 (non-L) on the market, that is completely your prerogative, but our focus at Fabspeed has always been to make the best possible products. We can confidently and proudly say we get the best T304L stainless steel available, not the one that allows us to offer the lowest price point. We can proudly say we pay a premium to have extremely talented fabricators work in a comfortable work environment. We can proudly say that we invest heavily into our infrastructure to make sure we have the technology and manpower to give all of our current or potential customers a superb customer experience. We can proudly say we offer performance products for the widest range of marquees and models than any other exotic performance company, not just the products that make us look best, sell the most, or give us the best margins. Some of our decisions may seem frivolous or unnecessary to some, and you are all completely welcome to hold those opinions. We strive to offer the best possible products, even if it comes at a premium, and though we are not perfect we are very proud of the effort we put out to reach that goal. Thanks again to everyone for sharing their opinions. We always take the pulse of the car community into heavy consideration when making company decisions.

Scott: Welcome back and nicely said.

Wanted to refresh this thread with a look at the sound upgrades you get from our Headers! With the extra HP and Sound Bump, you will truly smile every time you get behind the wheel for a cruise (if you don't already)! You Tube