996 vs 997

Has anyone consciously picked the 996 over the 997? I'm interested in a 996 C4S and quite honestly I think it's better looking than the 997.1 in some ways. I know it's something that is hotly debated - perhaps more so on the 997 forum where it seems there is absolutely no love for the 996. Just curious if anyone considered both and chose 996.

There have been three. Stevie Wonder, and the names of the other two escape me.

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Actually, many cases where people have gone back to the 996 over the newer 911 models. These people are looking for a raw "analog" driving experience. IMHO, the 997 is the last of the smaller "analog" feel 911 cars, but go for a lot more money than the 996. Most people that love Porsche performance are not going to give a flip about the shape of the 996 front headlights. They're truly not trying to impress anyone, especially the purists. They are looking for a rear-engined Porsche driving experience that will fit their budget. That's the beauty of the 996. Because people have turned their noses up to the 996, it has made it a valuable option to those that could have never afforded such a car. Now, the C4S is by far the sexiest of them all with the Turbo wide-body and center reflector. But just make sure you get the engine checked out completely by a well-respected Porsche shop. Nothing will drain your bank account quicker than a German money pit.

There is so much hate in the Porsche World for the lowly 996. Witness the two letters to the editor in Pano this month in response to the positive article last month about the 996. They do NOT know what they are talking about. If you want a larger heavier car that feels more detached from the driving experience with more bells, whistles and nannies by all means look at the 997. Of course I am biased...

996 has a much planer imho better looking minimalist interior. 997.1 interior is just too dated with atrocious NAV. Too many colours and textures. I could of purchased a 997 but chose a 996.

Read page 72 of the December 2020 Panorama if you have access to it and ignore the 997 forum haters. Each 911 iteration has its +/- and each forum vigorously defends its generation and finds fault with the others. Drive a 996 4s and some 997.1 and 997.2, then make your own decision. I own both a 996.2 and 997.2 4s and the cars are as different as the 996 and 997 forums users are.

Buy the one you like and can afford. I have a 996 and I bought it because it was the cheapest 911. I think a lot of people won�t admit this... but I don�t care. That said, I also prefer the 996 interior to the 997. I wish Porsche stuck with the swoopy and curvy 996 style rather than the more angular and �classic� 997 style interior. I think the 996 interior fits with the lines of the car more naturally than any other 911 interior. Yeah the headlights are kind of goofy, but this doesn�t matter when you�re behind the wheel. The 996 loses on headlights, but I think it has the best *** of any 911

https://ww2.pca.org/panoreader/dec-2020/#page=74

LOL - did you ask this same question in the 997 forum? I�m sure the responses would be filled with anti-996 comedy.

I think the 996 more closely resembles the classic 911 shape, it looks more like a 911. Somehow the 997 and the following versions appear like flat car with some 911 design cues pasted on. But design is just one difference, and "better looking" is just one tradeoff that you happened to mention. It would be better to make a list of the differences between them, could be anything that is important to you: interior layout, headlights, engine features, transmission (Tip vs. PDK), price, analog-ness, etc. Try to identify all of the differences and then create a "weighted average" spreadsheet so you can get a better picture of what you are thinking.

They are very similar cars. The benefit of the 996 is that it�s lighter than the 993/997/991/992 and has been cheaper to acquire. It�s also closer to antique status, won�t depreciate like a 997, and some models have almost no nannies (my 99 only has traction control (which can be disabled) and ABS. More basic interior, slightly less refined, slightly less luxury. Many 997s come with the larger IMSB, which is a plus. If you are comparing a 996 and a 997, if they are similar in price and quality, definitely go with the 997. Generally, always buy the newest 911 you can afford, especially one that�s had previous known issues addressed. However, the newer cars are going to be more refined, more isolating, more luxurious, heavier. It was the case that the 996 was too quiet, too isolating, more boring, when compared to the 964 and 993, so this is nothing new. The 991s are like that compared to a 996. I haven�t driven a 992. The 997 is also going to be faster, more powerful, probably faster around a racetrack, and such is the case for all 911s. The newer models are always more capable than the ones before them. Such has always been the goal of progress, and Porsche is very good about moving the needle, sometimes just a little, but those small improvements are noticed by those who are sensitive enough to detect them.

All of this talk about the 996 vs the 997 reminds me of all of the codswallow given to the notchback 356's years ago. Then it was followed by all the verbal outrage from purists who panned the birth of the 911. Some things never change.....

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Lighter is better. There is a Lot o money spent to lose weight. There's a reason. Less is more... Actually the 996 headlights are also better and Porsche caved to the masses on this so they wouldn't have to endure the whining. Then, as noted, so is the curvaceous interior.

I had 997.2 C4S and now have a 996.1 C2. The 997 was slightly faster and more powerful. It was a better car overall, but it�s not like feel like I am missing anything in the 996. In some ways I have a stronger bond with my 996. It is a great car in its own right. Looks are subjective, but I disagree with the notion that the 996.2 C4S is the best looking 996. I prefer the original 996.1 headlights, and the rear bumper configuration without the reflector.

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Yep.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/2000x1333/2000_porsche_911_gt3_0_2000x1333_f2270a5ad07536a1978ce5b67bf5806dedeb9771.jpg

So we can also start the NA vs Turbo debate... I chose my 996.2 C2 over a 996 turbo.

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BEAUTIFUL!

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i agree this is the best looking incarnation of the 996. I desperately want an aero kit some day... when paired with the aero kit, those headlights go from goofy to gorgeous

I’ve owned a 996, a 997, and a 991. I loved them all, and they all has pluses and minuses, as mentioned above. The driving experience was great in all of them, but the 996 definitely had the most analog feel, and I especially enjoyed the clutch, shifter, and steering feel in the 996. I’m not going to criticize any of them - they are all different but all have the “Porsche DNA”. Don’t worry about the differences; just get out and drive your Porsche!

I just picked up 120lbs of soft-water crystals in my 99 C2 Driving home I thought ' now my 996 weighs almost as much as a 997 '.

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It�s really crazy to think the 996 coupe can weigh 2900 lbs, in a world where most cars are 3500-4000. It�s not like the 997 is heavy by any stretch. Even that car is pretty light. And then to think the new 992 GT3 RS is like 3126 lbs is insane.

I like them both and I've said it before along with others is that the 996 was at peak analog car feel and the 997 was the beginning of the end of that. Nothing wrong with anything newer it's just a different era of car.

I've driven the 964 and 993 on the street and the 996, 997 and 991 on the track. All are works of mechanical art. All have quirks that you either like, dislike or are indifferent. And all have issues that will need to be addressed because they are mechanical boxes with wheels that will eventually wear out. ​ Bought my 2002 996 back in 2002 and still have it. When you go to a PCA event at the track or just a "get together", you find yourself wanting all of them for different reasons. While I have plenty of opportunity to get a 997 or any of the others, I keep keep going back to the analog feel of the 996 which creates pure enjoyment in driving. Not to mention that I don't want a techno interior with tons of gadgets and switches, nor do I want a nanny car that does all the work for me. But that's just me. You may be different and there is nothing wrong with that. I want to drive my car on the street and track. I want to feel the steering and every nook and cranny of the road. To me, analog is everything, but I passed on the chance to buy an RS America which was way more analog than my 996, because I liked the way the 996 handled better. Everyone is different and should be. The bottom line is that anyone of the 911's are beautiful pieces of machinery. The question is what piece of machinery do you want? And why? Once you answer these two simple questions you will find the right 911. I keep going back to the 996 every time.

Well I think they are both fantastic cars....I had a 997 and my current 996 aero at the same time but once I put the 997 3.8 engine and tranny in my 996 it was hard to justify keeping the 997. The 997 is still beautiful and I do miss it but I love the way the 996 Aero looks both from the front and the rear. I can see myself getting a 997 C4S again but the truth is what ever 911 you have you need to drive it. Some said it earlier, they are all great as long as they are taken care of. Right now I think I have the best of both worlds :-)

Once hated for it's strange non-iconic headlights, these 911 cars are now demanding some serious coin on the used market.

I bought the closest thing to an air cooled 911 that I could afford to buy and maintain. 1999 C2 Coupe 030 suspension, 18� hollow spokes, LSD, 6 speed, cable throttle and 2900 lbs Best part is that you can�t see the headlights when you�re driving

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Actually, even with the added 120 lbs of crystals, it still weighed 10 lbs LESS than a 964 Could not agree more. You actually have to go back to the 1984-88 3.2 Carrera for a 911 that is (slightly) lighter than the 996. The air-cooled 964 and 993 models were actually quite a bit heavier. Here are the weights for 2wd, 6-speed coupes for all models from the Carrera 3.2 through the 997.2 ( All weight differences in parentheses are relative to 996.1 ): 3.2 Carrera (1984-1988) -> 2,866 lbs ( -35 lbs ) 964 (1989-1993) -> 3,031 lbs ( +130 lbs ) 993 (1994-1998) -> 3,020 lbs ( +119 lbs ) 996.1 (1998-2001) -> 2,901 lbs ( basis for comparison ) 996.2 (2002-2004) -> 2,959 lbs ( +58 lbs ) 997.1 (2005-2008) -> 3,075 lbs ( +174 lbs ) 997.2 (2009-2012) -> 3,186 lbs ( +285 lbs ) .

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I don't get the hate for the 996 headlights. If I never had access to the Internet, I would have never known there was something wrong with them.

I love the 996. There are elements of the body shape that I don't like relative to the 997 and other models, but the light weight of the 996 makes it feel like the late 60's/early 70's 911's (that's the highest compliment I can give), but the 996 is much faster than those early cars and has modern creature comforts. I would not change the 996.1 headlights if I could -- they totally fit with the modern (compared to 993 predecessor) elements of the rest of the car.

I�ve considered the 996 as a starter Porsche, which gives a person a chance to learn the car, and the community, and see if they really want to be part of the organization without spending too much money. As an owner for 3yrs, I considered �upgrading� to a 996 Turbo. If I was going to upgrade to the next model, I think I�d go past the 997, and get a 991, but not any newer than a ~2013, so I could at least still access the engine bay from above. Prices are coming down on both models, to where if you�re ready to make the jump, a 996 Turbo is about the same $ as a 991 NA. I�d recommend a 996, then see what you think. Upgrade later, if you want. I�m pretty happy with my 996, and the majority of my maintenance has been elective upgrades. I don�t have an issue with the lights, they�re unique. It�s easy to always want more hp, more torque, more rounded headlights, etc. It�s natural. Drive what makes you happy, don�t feel compelled to drop the bank, unless it�s something you�ve planned and saved for. Happy motoring.

If for some reason my 996 were totaled and I were shopping for a replacement; I would be more swayed by options, color, price, and trim than 996 v 997: particularly a later 996.2- I think they look great and the engine is very similar to the 997.1 from what I recall. I�m not so worried about what other people think of my headlights.

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I drove a 997, 997s before buying my 2001 C4. Much preferred the lightness of the 996 and the narrow body style. The lightness was the key distinction. Maybe would have picked a C2 instead. Also really prefer the lower bodywork on the 996.1 vs. .2 and 997. That makes me just a little odder among Porsche people. Finally, I think the 996 interiors are aging better as classic cars. The 997 interiors just place the car so firmly in the late 2000�s.

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Thanks for sharing this....super interesting....i have a 3.6 in my 993 and it feels anemic compared to my 996 even when it had a 3.4...weight was probably part of the reason. Also, as always...lots of comments on headlights....i absolutely love the gt1 headlights....

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​​​​​​I am firmly with you. Never saw an issue with them and still don't. Neither did all of the owners of the 996. If they did, they wouldnt have bought one. I guess it's easy to complain and jump on the bandwagon about something, especially when you don't have any skin in the game.

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now image the 996 even lighter with GT3 seats, Brembo GT big brake kit, aftermarket exhaust, and upgraded suspension, where you can get the car firmly below 2900 lbs. You have yourself an incredibly nimble car. Then you get the crazy idea to put some aero on it for downforce, and rebuild the engine with 400 HP to last you 20 more years. Wow! ​​

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Exactly,. This is where the magic lies in the 996 platform....it's the only car my son wants in his inheritance...i am really surprised this is not talked about more.

I studied the 996 and 997 before purchase, and the 996 exterior and interior are better looking. The headlights look better than plain 911 ovals. I don't want any driver intervention except anti-lock brakes.

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it really is an incredibly special car.

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Yep!

I had a 996 before my 997. The headlights didn't bother me. The weight, agility, and performance of the 996 were what sold me on the car. I moved to the 997 for three reasons: 1) My tolerance for the uncertainty of the IMS bearing was less than I initially thought. 2) I did not replace the IMS bearing preemptively as I did not like the interior of the car at all; it just seemed cheap. 3) I drove a friend's 997 turbo. Replacing the IMS bearing and a full leather interior would eliminate the primary issues I had with the 996. Also, I did end up with a spun camshaft actuator on the 997, and after fixing that issue along with all the "as long as it's apart" upgrades, I ended up spending a lot more than the cost of an IMS bearing. But I'm still happier with the 997. Moral: buy what you like, as long as it matches your risk tolerance, wallet, and repair budget.

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And it ought to be talked about more. I never get sick of saying this.. in my opinion, the best way to get into the 911 game is to find a 996 at a decent price point and instantly put it under the knife. Other members here have done this and you will likely never see them start a thread about catastrophic engine failure like so many high mileage and garage queens cars have. Look, you can go buy the 997, which is a great and attractive car, but getting a good one will cost $40k. Bore scoring is still a factor as well as several other issues to keep an eye out for. You will likely never experience these, but they do happen. Now let's assume I spend my $40k budget on a 996... I just went to BAT and found a 1999 6 speed coupe in blue that I really like for $23,500. (could be cheaper if I was willing to go to '00 or '01) Mileage is quite low at 51k plus BAT brings premium pricing, so I know I could find one closer to $20k. I send the car somewhere to have the engine completely rebuilt with nikisil, upgraded timing chain, IMS solution, and so many other goodies (including new clutch). The place I would go would charge $20k. Now I have a car that has a new life with a significant increase in reliability and performance. Now my light '99, which did a 5 second 0-60, is even faster without any weight increase and runs through the tach faster than the blink of an eye. This is the car I would choose.

The main reason I bought a 996 is because the design (both interior and exterior) is so damn cool, and it's becoming more classic over time. Considering their incredible value, it's a no-brainer. The 997 is a gorgeous car, don't get me wrong. But it tends to have that "modern but retro" attempt at styling like the Ford thunderbird or the new VW beetle. Almost too obvious of an attempt to go back in time and capture the retro flavour. In contrast, the 996 was a bold new futuristic design for its time, and has gradually become more of an authentic classic car. I think most people would buy a 991 over a 997 if they could afford it. But a 997 over a 996? Not for me - this was exactly the car I wanted and am proud to own. I've had newer Porsches, and also currently have a 993, so I could buy whatever generation I truly want. This is it. There's also something fun about pulling up in a pristinely preserved example of an older car, which is more unique and surprising, than showing up in a clean 997. There are simply fewer 996s on the road that have been maintained in such nice condition.

I bought a 996 because a 997 was about 2X the price. Now, 4 year later, they are much closer in price.

@dantonio that stance is dang near perfect! And well said.

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well said and gorgeous car! I like the wingless aero look

Definitely helps that you have a 40A car that should no doubt do better than a 997 in the long-term. What a gorgeous example and the stance is just perfect. Bravo!

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This killed me. Laughed out loud.

3 years ago, I looked at 991 Base & 997S models. I ended up buying a 996 Anniversary Edition on a whim. I could have afforded any of the options. Though, the 996 price point vs the others did make it easier to justify it as a 3rd car. Buying the 996 is one of the best decisions I've made. I've gone on countless mountain runs with the local PCA, entered concours events and met some great people who are excited to talk about Porsche's. Every once in a while I get the snide 996 comment, but it's usually from some curmudgeon who's opinion I could care less about. I just smile and say, "I love the headlights". Surprisingly, most people are excited to talk about the car. Every time I go on a club drive, there is always a variety of cars. From Boxsters to air-cooled 911's up to $200k GT3's. Not one person on those drives has any more fun than the other. That's what is so great about these cars, they all are meant to be driven and enjoyed regardless of price tag. Personally I feel some of the newer 911's are a bit too much car to really enjoy on the road. The 996 is a great balance of fun and being able to fully push your car on the streets without brazenly abusing the law. Am I ever tempted by a newer model? Yes, but then I go on a drive and the thought quickly vanishes. To quote Doug DeMuro, I like the "Quirks and features" of the car. The headlights, the interior, the engine etc. these are all positives to me. I've even changed some non-believer air-cooled guys' minds after a single drive. Most of the immediate comments go along the lines of "Wow, your car is so much faster than mine" and "you could easily daily this" lol.

996.1 may be missing the creature comforts of a 997 or younger iteration but the analog feel without the electronic nannies and lighter weight combined with similar power now to a 997 S, is just sublime. Certainly my forever car. ​​​​​​​

Rather than steal this thread, I feel like someone should start a thread called "Why the 996 is the perfect platform to play with...show us your projects" or something like that... I know there are some amazing projects out there. I would certainly love to contribute. It should start with peterp's weight chart...to me its the cornerstone for the discussion....

Dang the 996 is awesome! Love the look with the smaller wheels too! 997? No thanks. Sourced from BAT.com https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...11-carrera-79/

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Lowpue, couldn't agree more. Peterp, thanks for the weight chart. Speaks volumes on many levels. It's all about putting things into perspective about the 996 or any other car, isn't it...

I too love the unassuming look of a 996 on 17" wheels.

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That's exactly what my 99 looked like when I bought it. It had the base 17 inch twists with the original "fried egg" headlights. I still run the fried eggs when I track it. I have purchased a couple of sets of OE 18 inch wheels, Sport Design and 996.2 GT3.

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The 17" turbo twists on the Mk1 Porsche 996 just fit perfectly. I'm not sure if it's the curves of the front and rear bumpers, but those wheels just look right for the car.

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I agree. I get it that most people are not comfortable with producing video, but photographs are easy these days with iPhones. I would love to see more DiY project threads. That's the way I've learned to do a lot of jobs on these cars.

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When talking weight, I'd be curious where the builds from @zbomb and @RyanH. end up. They're different and the same all together and I'm sure they will be tipping well below the above posted weights. Sub 2900lbs is not unimaginable. That's some decent power to weight.

With a base model low option '99, replacing the heavy mufflers and cats and swapping on some my02 5 spoke wheels would already get you below the 2900lbs easy. And that is just scratching the surface.

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Mine is estimated at 2811 lbs right now (dry). I have about another 130 lbs identified in a spreadsheet including a sunroof delete, duck tail, LiPo battery, etc... But those are all going to be higher priced items to do.

Ryan - that's damn impressive. Combine that with a skinny cyclist behind the wheel and the car will impress for sure! Duck tail will look primo

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Yeah, AG battery is like 25lbs up front, and the spare tire is maybe 15-20lbs.

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I previously posted the "good news" about the weight comparison between 2wd, 6-speed, coupes. To complete the picture, I need to post the "bad news" about the weight impact of various 996 options. The only people who won't hate this information are the 2wd, 6-speed, coupe owners, but it's important to know, because anyone's impression of what it's like to drive a 996 will vary a LOT based upon which options are on the 996 they happened to drive: 1. Tiptronic : adds 108 lbs 2. 4wd : adds 131 lbs 3. Cabriolet : adds 174 lbs (for a C2) or 165 lbs (for a C4) So, a C4, Tip, cab weighs 404 lbs more than a C2, 6-speed coupe. I suspect that the weight impact of those options are roughly the same on a 997 (and others), so on a relative basis, the 996 is still much lighter than other models, but it's important to recognize there are pretty huge variations within 996's based upon options. Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger!!!! .

I bought my 996 new back in 2003 , Being much older now and hopefully wiser the only thing I regret is having done only 39k miles so far.... But i have enjoyed each one of them and continue to do so. I have no plans to sell the 996 or whatsoever. I have been to Porsche driving school and driven much faster and modern Porsches and as much I love modern Porsches, especially the turbo S , I adore the pebble design of the 996 and curved interior. Red dot award material if you ask me. Love the analogue feel and the sports suspension and sports exhaust, there two options transform the 996 carrera.... love the 997 carrera S with sports chrono as well, awesome car but I am stuck to the 996 design lines and sometimes wish I had the powerkit option but wanted a tiptronic car ( e36 m3 evo smg, e46 m3 smgii previous cars ) so it wasnt available... here is to the next 18 years of 996 ownership!!!

Hey guys, I am hoping this might be the right place to ask about the "electronic nannies", since I am really not sure what they are, but I think my car has at least two. So mine is a 4S / Tiptronic, and here are the electronic systems I can think of, and I am more interested in how this compares to the MK.1, like the '99 996. Tip computer: not a nanny to me, since it isn't some optional system that gets in the way. Lock / security system: Awful nanny, I hate it, always something that doesn't work right, but doesn't affect driving (not a driving nanny) PSM: kinda a nanny, but not to me, I happen to like this for safety, and I don' track the car. Besides, easy to turn off, or keep off. ABS: required, not a nanny. Electronic drive by wire gas pedal: not really a nanny, but of course isn't on the '99. By my count, the security system and the drive by wire gas pedal might be considered my two nannies. So, what am I missing, are there more nannies in the MK.2? And how to compare to the '99? Which of these systems are not desirable when trying to avoid the electronic nannies? 997 adds the PASM, but can't recall if that is optional. Thanks.

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I view PSM as an unambiguous positive for the common man. Rear-engined 911's, as much as they've worked on that design, are still not immune from Newton's pesky laws. PSM is a safely net for typical drivers, or even above average drivers. I can't really think of any nannies on the 996. The only thing I consider a "1 step forward, 2 steps back" modernization is the electric frunk on the 996.2 that can lock you out with a dead battery. Of course, it's kind of a hassle to open the door and pull the lever to open the frunk on my 996.1, but it's the lesser of 2 evils in my opinion. What nannies are on the 997?

Generally, when people talk about electronic nannies in a car, they are referring to computer systems that interfere with performance driving enjoyment. For example, traction control will kill your attempt to do a burnout or drift on a corner. Really, any system that tries to bring a car back to normal driving control. This includes things most people see as positive, like rev limiters, ABS, etc.

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Peterb, no need to fear for your life! This is good common sense info everyone should know. We all bought our 996s for different reasons and there is always a trade-off with everything in life. However, whether you own a C2, C4, Convt, etc, the 996 has weight, handling and analog feel advantages versus other models. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and with the 996, we have a beauty for those wanting it's attributes. Appreciate your info.

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Agree with PSM... it might just save your *** one day and it's easy enough to turn off when you do want to play on a snowy parking lot. The bad thing about the trunk lever on the 996.1 is that it will STILL lock you out of the trunk because if the alarm system doesn't unlock the lever on opening the car, you can't open it anyway.

More proof Porsche started to lose their head after the 996 was the 997 wart on the dash. WTF?

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The reason I dug so deeply into the weights was to understand the massive driving differences between the 2 996's I've owned. The first one was a 2001 Tip C4 Coupe, which I bought nearly new (CPO) as a daily driver for my wife. I specifically looked for a Tip for convenience and a C4 for safe winter driving for her. She LOVED that car. I did not love it. For me the C4 and auto took the fun of driving it. It was a great car, but I couldn't find a way to love driving it. My wife kept talking about the 996 for years and years after it was gone, so, fifteen or so years later, I decided to get her another one -- this time it was a 2000 6-speed C2 coupe. I couldn't believe the difference in how the 6-speed/C2 drove versus the Tip/C4 -- I literally didn't want to get out of the car on the test drive and bought it on the spot. She doesn't love the 6-speed as much, though she loves the way it drives. If I had to use the 996 for daily NYC traffic, I'd still get a Tip. Also, the 996.2 Tip I've heard is a lot more responsive than the .1 Tip. I couldn't agree with you more, there is a "best" configuration for everyone based upon their individual needs. That said, it's pretty important to drive as many 996 variations as you can because the difference in driving feel across differing configurations is not subtle.

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I have never understood the issue of traffic and stick shift. I've driven stick shift my whole life. Currently daily a manual Jeep Wrangler. On North Americas busiest freeway: Ontario Highway 401 - Wikipedia And I'm not a kid.....Been driving for 35 years. Porsche 996 manual is easy in traffic. Just don't ride the clutch.

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Our Tip shifts surprisingly slowly between gears. That's OK because with our full leather interior and wood accents and beautiful but heavy 2 piece wheels I would classify our 996 not as a sports car but as a special car to drive.

Yep...I have or have had 993 turbo, 997S and 996.2 (turbo and C4S). Of all of them the 996.2 C4S with a 3.9Lt engine and supercharger is my favourite

I'd take a 996 over a 997 or anyother 911 gen. everyday of the week. Porsche's are what I do, and own what I speak.

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I daily in SF. There are hills. With stops signs.

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I have three manual cars, going to use the 996 to teach my daughters to drive a manual. So easy to engage without overrevving the engine.

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That is great but will likely be a skill that your daughters will never need. So few manual shift cars left. I bought a wrangler because I need 4wd with a low gear to pull boats out of the water. Only car left that has a low gear and is available in manual shift (maybe bronco now?). Likely, my next car will sadly be electric.

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Best looking 911 ever. Here's mine also 2003

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Appreciate what you're saying but they are inheriting my low mile NSX and S2000 and my 99C2. They're gonna have to learn if they want them, and they do p.s., Also, we're on our second tesla so ahead of the curve on electrics.

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I saw those letters. I do not own a 996 but I do own a 718 GTS, and one of those "fine" gentlemen managed to take a swipe at 718's while pillorying the 996. I thought to myself, that the poor man couldn't function in the bedroom anymore, so he took it out on other folks.