Some little bits in oil filter

I bought my 2000 996 three years ago with 82K miles on the odometer. Prior to purchase the seller had a new clutch installed along with an LN IMS bearing. The car now has 98K miles on it. I drive it occasionally on the street, and I have driven about a dozen track weekends in the car. I changed the oil today and found these bits in the filter. It's been 1800 miles since the last oil change. I use Mobil 1 0W-40. The two brownish plastic bits are the only ones I saw. There were, maybe, twenty of the little metal flakes. I always check the filter after changing the oil, and I always find a few little shiny bits. This is the first time I've seen anything that looks like the plastic bits. I have had oil analysis done before, with no problems identified. Obviously I don't have analysis results of the oil I drained today. Any thoughts?

Subscribed. Could this be one of those cases when the previous owner should have done more then just slap in the new bearing just to get the car sold?

Ferrous? Start doing UOAs again. Add a magnetic drain plug, from L&N. Probably some chain tensioner wear showing. Start using a better oil than M1 0W40.

My magnetic drain plug had just a very thin coating of some very tiny bits. One of the flakes in the picture was attracted to a magnetic. The others not. I'll be sending off a sample of today's oil for analysis.

Small metallic bits on the magnetic drain plug is normal. These motors are now roughly 17/12 years old now on the 996. The small plastic pieces look like mentioned above, timing chain tensioner guides. I just changed my oil and switched to a LN spin on adapter and filter msg this past week after 1500 miles and found a single piece of plastic in my old filter. Was I scared st first, yes. Am I going to go nuts over it, no. Come spring time I'm going to bring the car in and have the timing chain guides done along with a new water pump and thermostat. But honestly... wait until Jake raby responds. The guys words should be taken as gospel here.

Oh yeah looks like my plastic bits. Mine even had pieces of a busted spark plug tube the previous owner left inside. Get ready to do some Cam chain tension pads, also split the case in half and inspect or replace the IMS chain tensioner paddle. Better drop the old oil pan to see if more pieces are stuck in there or in the pick up screen. The orange bits are tensioner pad parts or chain rail bits and the black stuff is either one of the IMS chain rail or the paddle.

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The hard plastic bits are chain guide/tensioner covers. The metal flakes are probably aluminum unless you find they are attracted to a magnet. The aluminum could be just normal shedding the engine does. Tracking with all the extra violence the oil has inside the engine can add to this. The hard plastic bits are not normal. My WAG is the track usage is being hard on the tensioner/guide covers. Unless you want to budget for an engine drop to replace these at some point my advice is to quite tracking the car.

If it were mine, I would be dropping the sump plate to see what might be swimming down there. Hopefully not much or nothing, but I would want to know if the small pieces in the filter are a symptom of something bigger that might show up as a chunk of something on the sump plate.

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Chances are there is some debris there but it has been there since Day 1. Thus one might go on an engine rebuilding orgy based on nothing more than a normal collection/accumulation of engine trash. Absent any signs of engine distress, noises, CEL, if one can do this and get dependable numbers excessive camshaft timing numbers, just do a regular oil/filter service and give up on tracking. Then after some miles dropping the oil filter housing and seeing what if anything is in the filter housing oil or the filter element. If something is going awry the debris will be there. Really though if there truly is something going on the owner will have some indication of this long before he checks the oil filter housing.

Thanks to all of you for the responses. I've been around here long enough not to panic, and was hoping someone would have some specific ideas. It looks like you've given me some ideas to work with. I plan to drive the car around as normal for now. Sometime in the spring I'll check the oil again and maybe drop the pan. As far as DE goes, I guess it's time to evaluate how to proceed with this car. Flat6innovations Stage II upgrade looks interesting!

Yep, worn wear pads as suggested above. I also see what looks to be the main IMS tensioner paddles wear pad. Is any of that black debris soft, and pliable, or it is hard? The Stage II is inviting, its about all we build here these days.

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Jake, can you elaborate? What would each possible mean?

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The bits in the picture ended up in the kitchen trash and are gone. This morning I pulled the oil filter out of the garage trash can and looked it over. I could not find any more particles as large as the ones in the picture. A few things tinier than a pin head--nothing I could test for pliability. I'll take that as a good thing that the overall amount of debris was pretty small.

Now start using a better oil than M1 0W40.

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Got it!

The wear pads will now begin to wear at a faster rate. Once the chains have began to wear grooves into the material, the softer the layers below the dermis become. The deeper and deeper the wear occurs, the faster it will progress.

Here are results from the oil analysis by Blackstone Laboratories. About 1800 miles, including two track weekends, since the previous oil change. http://academic.pgcc.edu/~mhubley/Po...ilAnalysis.pdf

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The newer version of Mobil 1 0w-40 appears to be a superb oil. Here you go...

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Interesting, what is the source? Did I miss that in the document?

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I assume he is referring to section 3 (0W40 Mobil 1 FS European Car Formula), which begins halfway down the first page.

Lex what oil do you suggest?

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Device2, Very interesting, thanks for sharing that info... Did you get a CEL regarding the engine timing issue or based on the black pieces in the oil that you decided to replace those chain-tensioner Pads? Does the engine need to come out in order to replace these Pads? Thanks and Cheers,

Just to add some further information to this thread . . . Back in May I installed an FVD Motorsports Oil Pan. When I dropped the original pan, here is what I found: Of course I was hoping to find nothing, but I have seen photos plenty worse than this. In June my son and I took a road trip in the car. Hit the Tail of the Dragon and Cherohala Skyway. Then south to Florida for Wakulla Springs; the U of F bat house; family, friends, food, and beach at Tierra Verde; more friends and family in Avon Park and Alva; and an airboat ride in the Everglades. Finished off with a visit to my sister on the Outer Banks. All in all, 3200 miles with no problems. For 4th of July week, my wife and I hauled the car to her parents' home outside of Rockford, IL. I spent July 3 driving Blackhawk Farms, then July 7-9 driving Road America. Northwoods Shelby Club allowed ride-alongs at Road America, so I got to take Susan out for a few laps. I'm scheduled for three days at Summit Point later this month. So, I'm driving the car. Maybe it will keep on going? Maybe one day I'll be researching an LS installation.

Eh, most will say it's a ticking time bomb, glad you are enjoying it until (if it ever) goes off.

Good for you, man! Looks like some great memories made in the car. Those alone are worth what ever happens next. I am doing the same.

Here's another update. I took the car to Watkins Glen in June for a three-day DE. After my first run session Friday morning my check engine light came on. I hooked up my Durametric and it told me a camshaft was out of alignment (I forget the specific code). Durametric also showed that the left camshaft was off by 18 degrees! I guess this was the car giving me a nice warning, rather than just imploding. Though I wish this happened on Sunday rather than Friday! So, the car went on my trailer, and a couple of weeks after getting the car home I took it to Roger Bratter at Auto Therapy in Gaithersburg, MD, for some extensive work. Right now the innards are with Charles Navarro for Nickies with a bump to 3.8 liters. Add in the IMS Solution, Carillo connecting rods, an IPD intake plenum, new tensioners, etc. Should be a pretty sweet ride and ready for the track when I get the car back. Of course, I won't have any money left to pay for track fees, brake pads, tires, and all. So, with just over 100K miles and a number of track days on the car, I guess this was coming.

Thanks for the update and good luck with the new motor! Any chance we'll see pictures of the old innards?

Sure is quite a bit of debris. As another member suggests, drop the pan and inspect how bad it is. If it is the chain tensioner, then the engine has to be dropped to change it.

Yeah, rebuilds for Porsches are inevitable. In 2005, I bought an �88 3.2 Carrera with 117k miles. It had received a top-end rebuild at 90k miles. Those air-cooled cars were prone to needing valve guides for one reason or another. Not common, but not uncommon either. This car is still going strong at over 180k miles. Simply put, these cars are designed with a balance of performance and reliability. Design for too much reliability on the extreme end and you end up with a tractor-trailer engine. Design for too much performance and you end up with a top fuel dragster. One lasts a million miles and other lasts 0.1893 miles. With all else being equal in the world of cars, though, Porsches seem to have the best balance among reliability and performance when you add in other factors, both tangible and intangible. I suspect these cars are designed for about 100k miles. Porsches are for rich people that can afford to purchase and maintain them and although we see many cases where folks hang onto these cars for decades and accumulate hundreds of thousands of miles, they usually do so because they are maintained properly. I don�t think it�s just fluid changes. If something looks suspect, the caregiver of such a fine vehicle will spring to replace it. Lasting 100k miles isn�t a bad thing. How many people even hold onto cars that long? Most used cars have 2, 3, 4 owners, representing good useful lifetimes per owner, especially for Porsche owners who feel like they just acquired a gem of car that might look �new,� even if it�s going on 10 years old. To the OP: you�ll end up with a refreshed car that is probably going to be better and stronger than when new. Another one bites the dust and will be reborn with another 100k to go.

Did waiting 2 years cost you any extra $$?

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Look a few posts up. The motor has been broken down...

Vario cam pads are not too big of an issue , probably easier to do with engine out, just valve covers off not even heads need to come off, that would sort your cam deviation out and you would be good to go for a while, the ims chain paddle which is the black plastic is a bitch though , heads off and cases split for that one , it's on the back of the crank carrier!! Should keep going if monitored though! If you don't want to do a full rebuild at the moment maybe get the vario pads done then that may buy you some time , seems mad , plastic chain rails with limited life buried so deep in the engine, the ims one is like a clip on cover over a metal tensioner must only be about 3mm thick!

808Bill--I will work on getting some pics of the old innards. Everything looked pretty good, but the brown and black plastic pads/ramps were worn. They looked maybe not quite as bad as the ones shown in post 6. There was also a bit of scoring on one of the pistons. HenryPcar--My post 23 shows what I found in the oil pan back in May of 2017. dgjks6--I don't think waiting cost me anything. That being said, the CEL coming on probably saved my ***. Had I not gotten that warning, I figure I might have been driving along at some point and skipped timing. That would have cost me more! As it is, my heads and valves are in good shape. Noz1974--I thought about just doing the minimum, but while the motor is out of the car . . . The fact that the black plastic pads were wearing was, as you mentioned, a push in the direction of splitting the case. Since I want a car that I can feel good about driving on the track, then it's down the slippery slope of Nickies, etc. I look forward to updating you all on how the "new" car is running. Maybe in late October or early November???

Thanks for the update [in the original thread]. Super helpful and useful information to see things as a progression in time and have the overall context in which things happened, rather than someone making an entirely new thread and us only have the instance. I just had 6 hours of track time @ COTA in 3 days, and upcoming 2 days @ MSR-Houston on 12/1-2. I fully expect to have a similar undertaking to what you've encountered. Considering doing the build myself... wouldn't be the first engine, but would be the first Porsche engine. I hope the car is coming back together for you shortly. Do you have a list of modifications/changes done during the build?

I haven't got the car back yet. Hopefully in the next few weeks. I told the guy to take his time, so . . . See post #26 for a list of things being done with the motor. I see a lot of threads where someone posts about a problem but never follows through with the resolution. I have probably done this myself a few times. Clearly it is more useful to see the whole progression. I will be posting more info as it becomes available.

Who's doing the work? Is it Auto Therapy? Is it the same basic package as FSI Stage II Track Performer? (looks similar - rods, pistons, valves/guides, Timing chains and paddles, etc.) Any head work?

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Yes, Auto Therapy (Roger Bratter) is doing the work. I'm not sure on the details of FSI Stage II. In addition to the LN Nickies, new pistons, and Carillo rods, I am getting an IPD intake plenum. Timing chains, paddles, and tensioners are being replaced, along with the AOS and various other bits. I don't think he did anything with the heads other than clean them up. Valves all looked good. By coincidence, this thread was resurrected yesterday, and this morning I got pics from Roger. Here is one of them. Looks like I should be getting the car back soon!

Hah, I am going to have the coolest lawn art in my neighborhood if and when mine blows, but till then I'll keep reading, learning from y'all, fix what I can and continue to vigilantly pray I win the lottery Regardless, if mine ever launches, it's been fun and a dream come true to at least afford for awhile yessireeeeeeeee!!!!!!

That's one beautiful photo!

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Looks good! Seems like a similar build - I hope it works out well for you

I dropped this thread back at the end of 2018, and a year-and-a-half later I am picking it back up. I got the car back in early 2019. After getting the car back from Autotherapy, I took it to John Behe at RPR in Baltimore. He did a thorough tune on the car and gave it back to me with a dyno sheet showing me 306 hp and 273 lb-ft at the rear wheels. He never had the car before the rebuild, so I cannot do a direct before/after comparison, but those numbers look pretty good to me. John said he put an emphasis on the upper RPM range, since I track the car, and I swear I can feel the car pulling hard up above 5,000. Maybe placebo effect, but it seems real. My first outing on the track was at Road America in July 2019. According to Harry's Lap Timer, my highest speed at the end of the main straight back in 2017 was 131 MPH. This time I was hitting just above 140. So, I think there is some noticeable improvement. In August I had a three day event at Summit Point, and I noticed some improvements, but not quite what I was expecting. After that event, I discovered the tire pressure gauge I was using was reading about 5 PSI too high, so I probably had my tire pressures way off. Then I tore the rotator cuff in my right shoulder playing basketball, and I did not do any more track events last year. Thanks to SARS-CoV-2, no track events so far this year. So, I spent something north of $25K on the car, and while I wish that never happened, I am happy with the results. Now I need more track time. I am scheduled to be back at Road America this coming July, and I plan to have fresh tires and an accurate pressure gauge! My fingers are crossed that the event will happen. In the next few weeks I am planning to purchase and install a set of Ohlins coilovers in place of my ROW M030 suspension.

Sounds like a good build! Did you go to 3.8l ? Your HP/Tq #'s are very similar to mine (mine was dyno'd before I put the IPD Plenum/GT3 throttle body on, so they may be a little higher now...). You're going to love the feel of the Ohlin's, and they'll probably improve your lap times a little if they're set up correctly! Good luck!

Yes sir, 3.8 liters.

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The extra HP is mostly from the increased displacement and not from the tune.

Bummer! Motor grenaded. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-are-over.html

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No biggy, Just need a good used crankshaft from a Boxster 2.7 ( I happen to have one in my basement), and a gasket set, and 25hrs free labor, it would be back fresh as a daisy if you have the skillz !! OH and a new 50 cent Welch plug !! lol

I found some plastic In my oil filter today too. unsettling, but no metal at all. So that�s good I guess. My car has only 48k miles. Is it totally not normal to find these chain tensioner plastic pieces in a filter? Seems like if it�s a wear part it�s more normal than you�d think. It has been since 2017 since its last oil change, not because of me. I just bought it in December and finally drove it this week. Changed the oil today. it makes no noise at all to indicate any problems. Runs really well and is clean as hell, top and bottom.

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Actually, it's pretty common on Mk1 5-chain engines like yours. More than likely it's the Variocam chain actuator wear pads. (see picture) Many people call them the Variocam pads. Chain guides could also be worn. Miles mean nothing in this equation. It's time in service. It would be a good idea to check your camshaft deviations.

Actually pretty normal for oir cars. U may want to drop the sump next time to clean out the rest of the pan. As said run the cam deviations. The pads can look this bad.

Yeah, but b3freak and De Jeeper, those pads are brown. What about black bits?

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The brown bits once suspended in hot oil over time turn black. If you notice in the picture those pads have turned amber brown. Brand new they're a light brown color.

If I remember correctly, there are some black plastic chain guides in there as well. Possibly some bits from that in the mix? Those are harder to replace, but clearly some wear is tolerable. I agree to have a shop or someone with a Durametric check your cam deviations.

Interesting, I did not know that. I assumed it was from the IMS tensioner pad, which as you know, requires a case split. And if that�s the case, I might as well rebuild it. So if my bits I found in December that were black, were just leftover from the 4 tensioner pads, then maybe I don�t have an IMS tensioner pad issue like I thought it did. I will have to check the oil filter again in 6 months.

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Absolutely. IMHO, the most common source for plastic bits in the sump on a Mk1 3.4L is from the wear pad on the Varicam actuator. However, the black plastic bits could very well be the other chain guides which are a dark brownish-black color from the factory.

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Like I was telling the OP, the most common source of plastic bits in the oil is usually the Varicam wears pads, but yes... the other chain guides, including the IMS tensioner paddle, have darker brownish-black chain guides that will wear off and could be what you're seeing Mike. I encourage you to purchase the Focus On: M9X Engine Assembly series I produced for the Knowledge Gruppe and Jake Raby. That is, if you plan to rebuild your engine.

Here is a good image to show the BEFORE and AFTER... Let me clarify my thoughts... when these pads are subjected to extreme heat and oil (mixed with hydrocarbons) overtime they will start to discolor as you can see in the picture. It's my understanding the process doesn't happen overnight; but instead, over time the plastic will become discolored and the bits will appear dark brown or even blackish in nature.

Forgot to add... you really need to drop the sump and examine for more plastic and/or metal debris. It's not uncommon for the plastic bits to clog in the screen of the oil return tube. That could be a big problem.

I already have a Stage II in mind if and when. I won�t be doing the work myself. I don�t yet know if my car or person would even be accepted, so if it�s not FSI, then it�s �trade her in.� And I will be disclosing to the buyer, 100%.

If I could go back in time to June 2018 (see post 26 in this thread) . . . I had been noticing the plastic bits in my oil. At Watkins Glen I got a check engine light, and my Durametric told me a camshaft was way off. What I did was go for a major rebuild, put well over $20K into the car, took it back out on the track, and then experienced a rod bearing failure. If I could do it all again, I would have just had those Variocam guides replaced, had the camshafts put back in order, and stopped tracking the car. Despite the rebuild, tracking a 996 with over 100K miles was probably asking for trouble. Maybe today I would still have a nice 996 to have fun with. Oh well . . .

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You have to listen when the engine screams at you. If you don't take care of problems first, they take care of your wallet later. This is why I tell people to avoid failure at all costs, if you have symptoms you must take action before you "have to". Having to adds at least 5K to every build, if you are lucky.

Well, in my case I did immediately take action in an effort to remedy the problem. I immediately stopped driving the car, and I paid someone to rebuild the motor, including having the innards shipped to LN engineering for Nickies. One could argue about whether or not I picked the right mechanic (he had plenty of good local recommendations), but I did try!

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True. Guess I misunderstood that. So it failed after he built it? He was probably doing the best he could with the resources he had. The case too often with these engines, is that those resources, and limited direct experience simply aren't enough.

Sometimes it�s just bad luck. I�d rather go through what you went through on an engine than have a replacement heart fail after taking corrective action.