30 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHNeed a Quick $$$ estimate for IMSB/clutch R&R
Leading reported evidence
Replace stock dual row
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Replaced stock dual row with LN retrofit (pending passing pre-qualification checks), replace RMS, AOS, clutch, flywheel, fluids, LN magnetic drain plug, scan service, and install LN spin-on filter adapter.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If you don't mind the drive down to the SW side of town one of these upcoming weekends (I seem to remember that you live up north) then we could do a quick manometer test to check the AOS.
Leading evidence: 'Replace stock dual row' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check air oil separator' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If you don't mind the drive down to the SW side of town one of these upcoming weekends (I seem to remember that you live up north) then we could do a quick manometer test to check the AOS.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I'll do the AOS myself if its a problem....My only real concern is the bore scoring (I do not have any symptoms but want to double-check before I throw 5 at it).
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
So getting a trusted mech to check for bore scoring should then be an absolute must before purchase....?
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Check air oil separator
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If you don't mind the drive down to the SW side of town one of these upcoming weekends (I seem to remember that you live up north) then we could do a quick manometer test to check the AOS.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I'll do the AOS myself if its a problem....My only real concern is the bore scoring (I do not have any symptoms but want to double-check before I throw 5 at it).
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
30 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T083035Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
2004 C4S with 50K miles that I'd want to get the clutch and IMSB done as a package. What is a good guesstimate for the repair, and should anything else be done while it's in the shop?
The price will vary by location, but I would have them install the Ultimate AOS Solution at the same time. The water pump isn't a bad DIY, but it is involved.
Plan on $5K.
This way if they find anything while they�re in there, you�re not too surprised.
I would do AOS, Water pump, thermostat, RMS, flywheel if needed.
I read about bore scoring, and this car has no service records, so is there a definitive test for scoring before I do the rest of the work? Seems that scoring begins before a bore scope can see it, but what's the reality?
Cheap and easy-ish to check for bore scoring.
Drop sump plate and bore scope with $40 bore scope from Amazon.
$20 for Loctite 5900 to reseal Sump plate afterwards.
Have that done before you do IMS bearing.
Follow the pre-qualification as recommended by Jake Raby & LN Engineering.
that's great, Thanks! Am I being paranoid from what I've read, or is 50K miles a time to do some major R&R? Nothing in my garage has such few miles and my '99 996 with 70K miles is Tiptronic, so doesn't seem to be in the categories that might need attention. Current owner is fussy good about oil change, but doesn't have service history from before 40K miles.
No two cars are the same. If you plan on keeping it long term then do all the recommended maintenance mentioned above. Clutch? Being a TIP is going to be a little more expensive labor wise but less the clutch cost.
If it where me, I'd get the LN IMS Solution and never worry about it again!
+1
As far as I'm concerned, unless the PO has replaced the water pump in the last 4 years, I would do that too.
I would also install the UAOS, lower temp LN thermostat, and replace the RMS.
Then there'a LOT less worry with owning a 996.
Which Indy did you use?
Just wondering.
I have people ask about Indys all the time.
I've been turning down work lately, but considering taking on some side work occasionally.
I would only install The IMS Solution, not any other IMS offerings.
1) Contact FSI via the website
2) Start saving for a rebuild.
The sooner you rebuild the better.
You can change to a different oil in the meantime if you need to extend that time some.
Jake will help you through this if you go the FSI route.
...actually he typically helps out regardless.
I called everybody on this thread
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...endations.html
. I've not done it yet, waiting for some parts to come in to scope it and check the AOS and then will send it off if everything looks ok. I'll do the AOS myself if its a problem....My only real concern is the bore scoring (I do not have any symptoms but want to double-check before I throw 5 at it). I get some smoke at startup my guess is it's the AOS of the fact that I only drive the car once a month or less.
rookie as well but three options from what I understand....
1. Sell it at a reduced price disclosing the problem.
2. Drive it until it explodes and sell it as a roller.
3. Spend more than what it's worth for a rebuild.
I'm an option 2 guy.
The smoke is probably just oil leaking past the rings while it sets.
Now I wouldn't ignore it and not scope it, but it's possible it isn't anything major.
If you don't mind the drive down to the SW side of town one of these upcoming weekends (I seem to remember that you live up north) then we could do a quick manometer test to check the AOS.
Ha wow. I am looking at 996's and you guys are terrifying me. So getting a trusted mech to check for bore scoring should then be an absolute must before purchase....? I was about to wing it....
that's a really kind offer, Than you. I would take you up on it if I did not literally (5 minutes ago) get a manometer delivered...Caps in the mail along with other parts, plan on taking it apart over the week to do the inspection.
We are talking about worst case scenarios of course.(IMS failures, AOS failures and cylinder bore scoring)
Depends upon your acceptable level of risk.
Also whether you could afford to rebuild the engine, or sell the roller at a loss.
PPI is never a bad idea as long as YOU choose the correct place to do the PPI.
A paid PPI is a must if you can't, or don't know how to, check it yourself.
If you can do a full invasive PPI, then that's always the least risky choice.
A buy it and pray it's in good shape is great for Youtubers who make money off their exploits.
For the rest of us, we need to minimize risk as much as possible...up to our acceptable level of risk.
FYI, I'm starting to stock more of the "normal" Porsche wear and tear parts.
If you need an oil cap sooner, I have 2 brand new Porsche oil caps in stock.
If the one you ordered is a factory Porsche cap, we can just switch them out at a later date.
We can always do a part swap if you need something right away, but don't want to pay dealer prices.
I winged it and have zero regrets so far. It's as @
TexSquirrel
says it's all about your tolerance for risk and the impact of your toy bricking its self...if you like boats and cars you will find the 996 is "cheap" fun.
Seller said his mechanic didn't recommend the specific PPI because the IMSB isn't something you can diagnose from outside the car if it isn't making any noise...and the bore scope might be worth something, but absent any other symptoms, he said to save the money.
What are your thoughts about both issues?
So, the real question about a PPI is it worth the upfront effort. IMHO, the purpose of the PPI is to determine if there are any obvious issues with the car. Based on information received, then you can conclude if the car is worth buying. This is not just a $$$ question but also avoiding purchasing a car that becomes a headache.
In fall 2018, I purchased a 996 from a Porsche dealer (largest in Canada). I had a PPI done at an independent. I had signed all paperwork dependent on a clean PPI. The PPI was done in 2 ways:
Part 1: Assessed overall condition of car, everything worked, brakes, AC, alignment etc. This was about $300 cdn. Then, I agreed to part 2.
Part 2: Borescope the cylinders, leakdown test. This was another $500.
So PPI found the following:
1. Tilt on driver's seat non operational.
2. Leaking RMS. Repair estimate of $1400.
Dealer fixed the seat (new switch). I was hoping to split the RMS repair estimate with the dealer. I didn't want them to do it as I was planning on getting the solution installed. I asked for a $1400 discount as a starting point. Dealer actually agreed.
So, in essence, the PPI cost me nothing since I recouped all the PPI cost with the price reduction of the car.
Car now has the Solution, new water pump, clutch, flywheel, RMS. That was about $7500 CDN - $5000US.
I think I have a good car. At least I hope I do.
Follow the directives set forth in my part 7 of the "Focus on bore scoring" to better understand how to live with bore scoring. This whole video is dedicated to this very question.
Agreed. There are also sellers that are retired and have money and just like things simple and practical, and this seller might be one of them. Car is being sold cheap enough that it actually causes a number of questions in my head.
A PPI will be done in a few days, with the bore scoping being most important. Anything else can be replaced down the road.
This was my experience for IMSB and clutch service, with a few other additions as well. 11/99 build date, service performed 08/2017 with 26,800 miles. Indy ran by Jeff Brubaker of Kraftwerks in north central OH, found on LN's site as a certified solution installer;
Replaced stock dual row with LN retrofit (pending passing pre-qualification checks), replace RMS, AOS, clutch, flywheel, fluids, LN magnetic drain plug, scan service, and install LN spin-on filter adapter.
Total with tax; $3,373.90
All in all, it may have been a bit of up front cost, but if anything it maintains some sense of security for myself or the next buyer (if that ever happens). Jeff was great to deal with, has a nice little shop filled with P-cars of all ages and no question knew what he was talking about. Worth every penny. Since then it's been nothing but routine maintenance, fixes that can be done in the garage without much hassle, and miles with smiles.
Good write-up, and the cost for everything was a good bit less than I'd expected.
As it happens, the PPI noted a number of paint chip repairs behind all four wheel wells, and deduced that the car has been tracked a bunch; no less by an old man, lol. That combines with his close-to-the-vest responses about things and I passed on the 2003 C4S with 48K miles for $24,000. Good information, and the wrench in Memphis is a guy that I'll use the next time if a car comes up close to them.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
