Lifter stuck, quick fix?

Hi everyone, It seems my intermediate rough idling was not sparks or coils (all new) but a stuck lifter, with another one on the way (each one on different sides). Codes: p0300 p0301 p0306 compression test 170psi Current oil Mobil 1 5w/40w In a perfect world I would have all the lifters repaired, but do to a recent chain of events do not have the 4k to do it. It's an '02 996 with 65k. It was a daily driver but more recently due to work loss it has sat in the garage for days at a time, then driven. This might have contributed to its decline? Any ideas on temporary fixes? Should I drive it more often? Or let it sit until I have money for repairs? I've kept it very well maintained with yearly oil changes. I read somewhere to put thin oil in with ATF drive 20 miles then change oil and filter. Anyone have any experience or suggestions?

I would definitely not try the ATF. To replace the lifters is a pretty complicated job, possible with the engine in the car, but much easier with the engine dropped. And on a 02 996 with the variocamplus system the lifter, particularly the intake, are quite expensive, probably $1,500-$2,000 in parts alone. And once you are in there it only makes sense to replace all of them. You might try Seafoam, an oil additive. Do a search and you will find some discussions of this. You add it and run the car for a while, the drain and replace the oil. One of the challenge with the lifters is that they are basically a dead end path for the oil, so if debris gets in there it has no way to flush out. Good luck

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Change oil & filter, (good time to switch to 10w-40 Castrol edge) check filter for debris & good to pull oil sump plate & check oil pickup for debris/blockage. Go for a long hard, hot drive around 4000rpm & try to maintain temp around 220 F. Erase codes & CEL 1st if you can but in any case stop if CEL flashes. If this improves lifters repeat as needed, otherwise just drive as normal unless situation worsens.

There's a posting somewhere, but I can't find it where a 996 owner had a stuck lifter and an indy recommended a BG product. MOA I think, but not sure. Anyway, the 996 owner reported that it worked. Worth a try?

I've seen Swepco 502 recommended by some in this and other Porsche forums for "fixing" stuck lifters. Suggested was to add it a few hundred miles before an oil change. Apparently this stuff has both MoS2 (moly disulfide, a friction reducer) and some aromatic solvents which could cause some gack to wash out of the engine/lifters--you'll want to replace oil and filter just to be safe, assuming this does happen. I also have an '02 with an occasional "ticking", like a stuck lifter. The traditional "Italian tune up" (run it hard at high RPMs for a while) usually helps. I may, however, try the Swepco 502 before my next oil change, which is due in about 5000 miles (I just changed it). Let us know what you do, and how it works. Good luck.

Byprodriver, I'm sort of a novice when it comes to mechanics, but since my lifters are getting stuck especially at cold start and idle, wouldn't I want to stick to a thinner weight oil?

Dhran55, do you think the Automatic transmission fluid would do harm? I've heard of seafoam but it seems it didn't help most people with similar problems from what I read.

I have not heard of the other two… I'll have to look into them thanks Please keep the recommendations and opinions coming I'm desperate for something to work but not cause more harm then good. I assume the "Italian tuneup" will not make it worse as well? And perhaps I just need to take it out on the open road daily until I fix it?

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That is entirely possible, but you have to try something different than what you have been doing. The higher viscosity may cure the cold start noise & the superior brand should help all around including the annual oil change interval. ANY ENGINE FLUSH CLEANER will do a great job of cleaning the very crap you are trying to remove and permanently deposit it in the lifters, since as Dharn said it is the deadend of the oil circuit. You are trying to remove tiny impuritys thru a tiny hole from the part of the engine that has the smallest clearances. The method I suggested is your 1st step to improve the situation.

I'd suggest Liqui Moly engine flush, just before an oil change.

I have a valve tick and I put in a couple of pints of Marvel mystery Oil (basically the same as ATF) with no change. I have heard of success with stuck lifters with ATF, But i would not use an aggressive cleaner because of what others have posted, you could get crud loose which could cause even more clogging problems.

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to be talking to my Indy this week and will bounce some of these off of him. The crude that gets loose, do you think will only perhaps make the lifters worse? But not effect anything else? The reason I ask is it might be worth a try if the worse case scenario is that I would have to change the lifters after putting in swepco, ATF, mystery oil etc� since that would only help or put me back full circle at changing lifters.

I had a noisy lifter in my car - when I was having the IMSR procedure done, I had a new set of lifters installed. Much better now. Sorry that is not much help.

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You can try the auto-rx additive to see if it cleans them out; don't really have a whole lot to lose at this point.

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The lack of use probably has contributed to the symptoms. I'm not convinced the cause is one or more stuck lifters. Without some clearer signs one or more lifters are truly stuck I'd hold off replacing then. While in the 'old days' adding a quart of ATF (very high detergent oil) to engine oil was a fix (supposedly) for a stuck lifter or a sludged up engine no way a quart of ATF can resurrect an engine that has suffered from lack of proper oil/filter servicing over enough time the engine is manifesting the symptoms arising from lack of proper oil/filter servicing. Thus, if you have run a proper oil and changed it at reasonable intervals I do not believe the engine has a stuck l lifter. The car sits unused, but even it if sits for days the engine should quiet down in just moments upon engine start. (My 02 Boxster with 257K miles sat -- in an airport parking lot -- from June 22 to June 30 and while it made some clatter upon its first startup the engine quieted right down in just moments. I will add my Turbo sat that long unused too, and its engine made a bit more racket at start up but it too quieted right down. Oh, both engines have Mobil 1 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50).) A stuck lifter should be a noisy lifter. Unless you hear this noise my money is not on a stuck lifter but something else. The something else...You mention new coils/plugs but I have to call into question the quality of the work and ask if OE or OEM parts were used? My tech friends tell me misfires often come from the wiring harness connection a coil has rather than a bad coil so you should consider a bad electrical connection. No need to replace the harness, just find the electrical connectors and undo the connector and then reconnect it. Be very sure you fully insert the connector. Sometimes the connector has a resistance that makes one think it is connected when it is not, it is loose. Also, be gentle with these. Connectors age and you can break/bend a pin and then you have real problems. Another thing to consider is the injectors are blocked due to tip deposits. Yet another thing to consider can be stale gas. On this note a family member's car -- an Infiniti EX35 -- has sat since late January with gasoline from that time. (Oh, premium gasoline, too.) I had reason to drive the car. The engine started right up -- and was quiet even though it had been weeks maybe months since being run last -- and once on the road the car ran ok. The engine felt a bit flat but I was just assuming this was because after driving my Porsches as much as I do other cars feel underpowered. Anyhow, I drove the car enough it got low on gas. I filled up the tank with Shell 91 octane and the engine was transformed. The engine perked right up and in fact impressed me with its power and performance. While in the case of this Infiniti the engine never even hinted at a misfire, the engine was definitely suffering from very stale gasoline. In your car's case even though you drive the car more often than my family member's car gets driven the gas in your car may be getting stale and suffering from some stratification. This stratification can contribute to misfires. Thus you might consider doing two things. One would be to use a bottle or two of Techron -- according to directions -- and the second would be to fill up the gas tank with fresh gasoline. After running the gas tank down with the last bottle of Techron added to the gas I like to change the oil/filter. Yet another thing to consider, is if the car sits for a while unused, it may have been visited by mice/rats. These creatures can do some damage to a car's wiring and fuel system lines and the first hint that something's amiss is the car/engine develops odd behavior/symptoms along with a CEL and one or more error codes. A thorough inspection of the car needs to be made to eliminate the possibility rodents have been in/at the car. Sincerely, Macster.

Another thought is to get the car in the up on a lift or jackstands, start the engine, and listen to each valve using a long screw driver or 1/2" or so diameter rod or tube, touching one end to each valve area and the other end to your ear. The offending lifter will transmit a very loud clacking noise through the valve cover that is totally different from the other valves. Best of luck, Paul

Has anyone used Lucas synthetic oil additive? I'm being recommended that by a friend/mech but from another post I read, someone said its no good. It's like liquid tar.

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"Liquid tar" is about right... My research indicates it has a cSt at 100C of greater than 45.0. By way of comparison, Castrol Syntec 5w-40 oil has a cSt at 100C of 14.3. Avoid it would be my advice. Sincerely, Macster.

Thanks macster, by the way it was suggested to me over a month ago to add techron and take it for a 100 mile drive at over 3000 rpm. I did that but did not change the oil (it was not suggested by the Indy) and have changed to chevron gas. I was previously using 76 for years. My last oil change was in Feb.

Btw, I plan to deal with this this weekend. I've had the car sitting in our garage unused for almost 2 weeks.

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Techron can help remove fuel system deposits, clean the combustion chambers, etc, but just a 100 mile ain't likely to help much. Techron works in several ways, one at cold start as a liquid and then when the engine and its parts that Techron in vapor form comes into contact with are while hot are cool enough that the Techron vapor converts back into a liquid. So a mix of driving is preferred. As an aside since we already know gasoline can get into the oil, any additive and especially one that is (chemically) designed to remain a liquid at temperatures that would vaporize gasoline, and designed to revert to a liquid from vapor form at a temperature above that of say gasoline or even water, it stands to reason the use of Techron can add to the engine oil's contamination. This is why an oil/filter service *after* the gasoline treated with Techron has been burned up, or nearly burned up, is advised. Anyhow, a mix of driving is ideal. I used to use Techron once in awhile, before a smog check/test, but stopped when the engine came through with pretty good numbers. It has been at least a couple of years now since I have used this stuff. But I ran then and continue to run primarily Shell V-Power (91 octane) and it has some kind of additive that is supposed to keep the fuel system/et al clean. Does it work? Maybe. Maybe not. But the engine, engines (I run Shell gasoline in my Turbo and Boxster) have not shown any signs of any problems running primarily Shell gas so I assume Shell gasoline agrees with both engines. 76 gasoline is a good gasoline and were the situation different in my area, were there a price competitive 76 station nearby I'd buy 76 gasoline without a second thought. Trouble is while the Shell station is very easy to get into and get out of, the 76 station and a few other nearby stations (2 being Chevron stations -- one on either side of the freeway) are just the opposite. That and as a group they charge more for gasoline makes the decision to shop at the Shell station just that much easier. You can run a bottle or two of Techron through the engine but the best ongoing treatment you can give the engine is to drive the car more. While I commute 60 miles per day, at mostly highway speeds, I'm still amazed at when I take either one of my cars on an extended drive and roughly over 50 miles at highway speeds into the drive the engines perk up a noticeable amount. These engines really like to be run. (They aren't the only engines. On a drive to Huntington Beach in my 06 GTO, this some years ago, down a ways on I-5 on which I got a chance to let's say blow the cobwebs out of the engine, the GTO's engine perked up big time.) No need to thrash the engine to its limits, but once the engine is up to temp use that throttle more. BTW, I was able to see a Boxster engine with its head off -- a valve spring broke and the head came off to effect a repair -- and I was instantly taken by the cleanliness of the combustion chambers. I said something to the tech about the condition of the chambers and he told me the chambers were as he found them. He had not cleaned them. The engine had roughly 60K miles on it and was owned/driven by a woman who gave the car/engine reasonable service, drove the car every day, and drove it a distance on the highway to/from her job. I vaguely recall the tech telling me she lived somewhere in the Walnut Creek area and worked somewhere in the Pleasanton/Dublin/Livermore area, so she was covering (my WAG) 12 to 15 miles each way per day. Any engine fed a name brand/top tier gasoline combined with oil/filter services at reasonable intervals and subjected to the same or nearly the same driving conditions ought result in the same chamber condition Sincerely, Macster.

Thanks macster, lots of great info took it out and decided perhaps an "Italian tune-up" wouldn't hurt? But some of the additives might. So I added no additives, just a pure drive. The car had sat for 2 weeks. Started it up, drove it a bit with rough idle no cels then heard something that sounded like ran over a soda can, Was it backfire? Not sure. drove it another 5 mins (only rough when stopped not while driving) again rough idle at stop light. Threw a blinking cel. smelled what would be described as someone lighting a match. Dismissed it as perhaps car next door. Light turned green. Cel gone. 3 more mins, now on the freeway. Running good. Kept it around 5-6000 rpms for 2 mins (it's a short freeway) did a u-turn, other side of freeway gunned it and now smoke. No cel. Smoke is grayish blue. Got off at exit. Rough idle. Slight smoke. Cel now came on blinking. Cel went off as drove. Car now sitting at home. Started up again 20 mins after parking. Reved it to 3000 rpms Grayish blue smoke out of both exhausts. Rough idle. Blinking, to solid, to blinking cel. Turned it off.

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Did you have a professional tech check out the car? From what I recall the engine symptoms appeared either immediately after or shortly after the plugs/coils were done. Thus I'm still suspicious of the plug/coil work that was done or that something else was upset arising from this work. Last thing touched and all that... Regardless, leave the engine off and arrange to get the car to a professional tech. The issues may not be serious but you want to be sure. And even if not serious they will not fix themselves. Couple of things: The blinking CEL is most likely misfires and misfires that can damage the converters. Some possible causes: bad plug, or coil; leaking injector or one in which its spray pattern is severely compromised; too much fuel pressure, are a few that come quickly to mind. A read of the error codes would be of some value but really the tech can and should be the person to do this for he is in the best position to make the best use of the data. The smell arises from a converter that gets off on the wrong foot, chemically speaking, at engine start. This can be helped along by bad/stale gas, combustion deposits, misfiring plugs/coils, really anything that results in lousy combustion, or the gasoline just disagrees with the engine. Some after-market fuel additives may contribute to this behavior as well. The few times I've encountered this smell with my cars the smell duration was short-lived and I didn't do anything out of the ordinary but just got in the car and drove the car like I always do. Given the other things going on right now the smell to me is the least of your worries. The gray smoke can arise from a number of things: grey smoke may not be smoke at all, but instead can be water vapor (a natural by product of combustion and one we've seen many times after cold starting an engine) mixed with oil or unburned gasoline or possibly added to by a coolant leak. The water vapor -- absent any other significant quantities of say oil vapor -- emitted by an engine disperses very quickly while smoke tends to hold together. Or the grey smoke can be oil vapor by itself or mixed with the by products of less than ideal combustion. Grey smoke can even arise from less than ideal combustion. An overly rich mixture can generate exhaust with obvious soot but I've seen cases where the exhaust is just cloudy though with a very very strong smell of gasoline. With a blinking CEL which strongly points to a rich misfire which means the exhaust is loaded with unburned fuel...this suggests the grey cloud comes from this. But the AOS can't be dismissed either. There are just too many things going on, too many questions unanswered that can only be answered by someone at the car, to make any recommendation beyond what I've already made. An expert's inspection and diagnosis is needed. Sincerely, Macster.

Talked with Indy today. Looks like I'm going to have to bite bullet and fix the lifters. No way around it now. He's thinking the smoke is from the stuck lifter and the fact it's been sitting a while. Prob going to have him do AOS while he's at it. It seems they tend to go out around 50-60k on these cars from what I've read? He'll know more about the AOS once he gets a chance to get in there. Hope there isn't more to it! I'll also ask him about advice given when I bring it in. It was a different Indy who did previous work, so will have him check…