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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHIs IMS an issue on Early Build 996's?
Reported or suspected cause
rock chips
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Identified cause
0
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0
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Reported cause · Original poster
Only real issue is rock chips on the hood and front bumper.
Leading evidence: 'rock chips' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'rock chips' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check book etc' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Once it passed I had the solution installed so I never had to worry about the IMS bearing again.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
- Brake uid ushed/changed - Front brake pads replaced
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The new owner also replaced the Mass airflow sensor and replaced the radiator.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Since then, it's had the 60k mile service performed, new tires, brake fluid flushed, alignment done, mass airflow sensor replaced, new radiator.
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Hey all, I've finally come across a lovely, early build 996. She's been well taken care of from the paperwork and currently has 70k miles.
I'm seriously considering it, but wanted to find about IMS on these early builds. The seller told me that these early ones had a different, dual bearings setup that statistically didn't have the failure rate of the later setup. Would love to get some honest thoughts, feedback from this group.
Thanks!
No IMS issue on pre 9/98 911 builds. I mean anything can happen but if I were in the market for an early build 996, the IMS would be way down on the list of my concerns.
Always buy the seller with classic cars. Some dealers are trust worthy but the majority of the better cars are going to be sold by PCA members or enthusiasts. I found my early build 996 by a stroke of luck. It was actually his first and last Porsche ever, I got lucky. But I did ask the following...
1) Accident history
2) original paint?
3) Condition of paint and interior
4) where was the car born? Snow belt, have a closer look
5) If you were going to keep the car and had an unlimited budget to spend, what would be the first thing you would do. This trips up everyone and you usually get really telling answers as to what the car needs NOW!
Happy hunting. Early builds are just built differently. Hopefully you can test drive it, meet the seller etc, before paying for it.
Thanks so much
@168glhs1986
- I'm planning on driving up to check it out and test drive it in a week. Those are great questions, especially the last one.
The build date I believe is 4/98. The carfax is pretty well detailed, and the seller has given me the contact info of the mechanic he's been using. The car does originally come from NY and spent some time in VA so I'm sure its seen snow. Anything specific you'd recommend to check for or discuss with the mechanic?
Easiest to find data is to look on BAT.
But the first thing I would do is get every service record on the car to see what was done and when, as well as identify what wasnt done. If it was properly serviced throughout its life then I would go to the next steps below which will cost you money.
Then I would talk to the indy about the car and organize
1. Oil test
2. PPI
3. Have the sump dropped to see what's in it, review the oil filter, and have the bores scoped from the sump.
Price depends on its condition as well as what still needs to be replaced. The more the previous owner has done to service and refresh the car, the more its worth. The less that's been done, the less it's worth because you will have to foot the bill.
I�ll say yes and no.
The likelihood of a dual row IMS failing on an early build is very low.
But do you want to take that chance?
It is a wear item on an engine that�s 25 years old now.
Personally, I was more concerned about bore scoring on my early �99.
So I had it go through the IMS Solution pre-qualification to make sure there was no bore scoring, the engine was solid and worth investing in.
Once it passed I had the solution installed so I never had to worry about the IMS bearing again.
Then had all the deferred maintenance most 996s need:
AOS
Fuel injectors
Spark plugs and coil packs
Water pump
Fuel filter
Flushed ALL fluids
And the �while you�re in there�:
Clutch
Flywheel
RMS
Low temp thermostat
Timing chain tensioners
Check the records to see if any of those were replaced recently
I would meet at the mechanics shop. When the car is there you usually know how familiar the mechanic is with the car or maybe it was ...yeah the only thing I did was change the oil...or you might get. Yes I remember this car, the owner had an open check book etc. Usually when the car is in front of the mechanic that will tell you alot about how they feel about your car.
In my case, my mechanic reminds me often, to give him first crack at my early build if I ever go to sell. He is a very well respected mechanic and tells me what he thinks of my car. Anyway it's not about me...
Schedule to meet at the mechanics shop and have him put it on the lift and give you a walk around of all the wear items underneath. Give the mechanic $100 bucks for his time and then take it for a spin. If you want to move forward with a PPI I would probably schedule it with another shop.
I don't always PPI a car either. I can tell most of what I need to know from a test drive, info gathering from owner, walk around with mechanic.
Investing in an early build 996 is worth it, if the paint / body and interior are in great condition. Mechanicals are easy.
Thanks! What does a PPI run these days, ballpark?
With regard to the paint, the seller sent me two videos, and was very upfront about small rock chips on the hood. The interior looks really well kept. Happy to post the video of the walkaround here if folks would be willing to provide their feedback.
Post it. We all love pictures and videos.
As long as the paint is in good shape, chips are a fact of life. Dr. Color Chip works wonders. Especially if you have a good detail guy or the skills to blend it in w/ minor wetsanding.
Leather dye is easy with the Seat Doctor.
Key is your engine. Every shop is different on what they charge. Especially if you have the sump dropped and a borescope done. Start with the Porsche indy that serviced the car and ask.
Remember, the more refresh work the previous owner has done, the less out of pocket expense you will have.
I pulled the Carfax. Besides the standard routine stuff like oil changes, brake fluid flush, etc. The following has been done:
AT 52k miles
- Brake uid ushed/changed - Front brake pads replaced
- Vehicle washed/detailed
- Oil pan gasket replaced
- Front brake rotor(s) replaced
- Engine mount(s) replaced
- Transmission mount(s) replaced
- Stabilizer bar links replaced
- Water separator replaced
- Brake uid ushed/changed
The new owner also replaced the Mass airflow sensor and replaced the radiator.
I have an ocean blue metallic 99. Haven't had many issues, I did replace my IMSB but that was mainly because I needed to do the clutch, the leaking RMS, and an air oil separator. Made sense to do it all at once since the trans needs to come out anyway. There wasn't any metal in my filter or oil on my PPI. Mine had around 50k miles when I bought it.
Going to see her next week. Seller is asking 30k for her. If the PPI comes back solid, I feel like a fair offer price is closer to 25. What do you guys think? She's got 70k miles on her.
Looking at the interior, it has Comfort seats, which while are comfortable are only that... 4 spoke steering wheel some guys don't really care for that, i like it.. but its indicative of a low spec car... you should try to get a picture of the label under the hood and it could also be in the owners manual, it has all the options that were on the car, to be extra special, you would want 030 sport suspension, perhaps LSD which i think is option 220, but what you may have is just an early build well maintained 996, if the engine is sound then you can make it what you want it to be.. i think in the current market unless it has some special options that's a 20 to 25k car and really not much more than that.. but it is a nice color.. aaaannnd if it has a couple of nice options you could do a lot worse.
The right price? Hard to tell from here. You gave us a bunch of service info from the Carfax at 52k, what service has been done in the last 18 and how long ago was the 52k service done? You might want to find someone you know who has experience driving one of these buggies to drive this one and give you some feedback. I also think that if you buy this and fall in love with it, those rock chips will drive you crazy. If the seller is smart, he set the price high, so you can have room to negotiate. But first tell us what the service history has been since the 52K service and the date.
@996-CAB
Since then, it's had the 60k mile service performed, new tires, brake fluid flushed, alignment done, mass airflow sensor replaced, new radiator.
What are your thoughts on Dr. Colorchip for those?
It's probably a good starting point price-wise, if you like it and it's in good shape then I think offering 25k for a 911 coupe isn't bad, and ultra-low mileage isn't necessarily a good thing with these cars anyway. At its peak an early ocean blue metallic vert sold for almost 50k on bring a trailer. Dr. Colorchip is fine, it will never look perfect, and no touch-up will.
Wow that has some good options.. rear wiper is unusual here in the USA, hollow spoke wheels are the lightest factory wheels if it still has them, very desirable, is it a no sunroof car?? that's a bonus if it is... it could be a pretty rare early build... it would make me interest go up.. throttle cable car early build... lightest of the 996"s hollow spoke wheels, LSD.
There are two distinct sets of Turbo look wheels one hollow spoke and one not... the hollow spoke are so light they go for really good money, like thousands.. do you research and when you go look make sure they are the original hollow spokes... thats Thousands of dollars in your hand if they are..
im still saying 20-25k as a price, but the 220 and 408 options make this a few thousand more desirable.. i would buy it if it checks out then duckbill spoiler, lower the stance a tad, do the servicing as it needs, a new steering wheel, a new shifter and some sporty seats and then you really have something cool.. but thats just me, some guys leave it factory and love it just as much....
$1300 in fees, plus any tax, title, and registration, plus shipping if it was shipped, inspection if your state requires. $30k is probably about what he's at all in so I don't blame him for starting at that price. If you start it at $26k you are just going to get people throwing you low 20s offers.
All fair points guys. Thanks for the feedback. Drove it today and it looks to be in really solid shape. Only real issue is rock chips on the hood and front bumper. I got him down to 28k, pending the PPI on Wednesday. I feel like 27 would be a reasonable compromise assuming PPI doesn't bring back any issues.
I almost bought this car. When I looked at it he would not come down from $30k. Glad I held off, only because I found a super clean �99 in Arena Red. Same miles, but IMS, RMS, water pump and clutch all done within 15k miles. I was able to purchase and have it shipped from Indiana to Florida for $27k. The one you are looking at is very nice, and according to the seller, the wheels are authentic hollow spokes.
Haha small world! I was able to get him down to 27 but that�s pending the PPI comes back clean on Wednesday. Fingers crossed. All in all the car really does seem to be in solid shape and I love the color / wheel / LSD combo. The codes on the hood check out for the hollow spoke wheels. Yours looks beautiful by the way. I hope you�re enjoying her. These really are great cars.
Be careful. I remember a post on this very board from a poster who purchased an early 99 with LSD on BaT only to find out once he got it home, that there was in fact no LSD, as the tranny was swapped at some point in the cars history. I remember the car came from Vantage, and I remember the original poster went back to Vantage and they told him sorry, as is.
Now I am not 100% positive this is that car, but i think it is. When its on the lift, have your mechanic spin the tires to verify if the LSD is not there. If its not there be prepared to offer even less. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks for the heads up FirstFlatSix. I'll make sure the mechanic checks it out. Wonder how the buyer figured it out. I've spoken to the mechanic who's been working on this one for the last year extensively and he hasn't mentioned it.
here was the thread, look at the dates, car was purchased late october 2021, post was made dec 2021
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-lsd-woes.html
Stay away from Porsche dealerships unless they have a particularly good reputation for working on �classic� Porsches - More specifically 996�s (there are lots of �classic� Porsches that don�t include the M96 engine. Contact your local PCA Chapter and find a 996/M96 specialist - it�ll save you lots of headaches/heartache!
Thanks, yeah could be a possibility. I just spoke with the mechanic who's been servicing it for the last few years. The guys is pretty seasoned. Said he never had this owner bring it up to him, nor does he remember anything about the transmission or LSD being out of sorts or mis-matched numbers. Either way, I confirmed with the Porsche shop that will be doing the PPI to explicitly check this tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
Sorry! I brought her home yesterday and I forgot to do an update.
Luckily, the PPI came back solid, and they made sure to check that the car was in fact LSD. Only real major issues from the inspection were the tires which are from 2008 and worn and a few cosmetic things here and there.
I�m so happy with this thing that I smile like an idiot every time I walk by her. Thank you guys so much for all the help and insight along the way!
Funny side note: it�s got the dual slide out cup holders which I didn�t think was an option on the early 996s.
wdb, I immediately ran outside to see if my cup holder would pull out to reveal a second holder, but it did not. I don't use it anyway, but I wanted to see if I was missing something. June 19, 2002 build.
