A bit distressed

I thought I was reasonably safe with my 61k 99 c2 with all major services done including ims, rms, aos, and all the usual culprits. After watching Jake Raby�s FSI series on bore score, I feel hopeless. All M96s will self destruct.

Buy a honda

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i have a Mazda, Lexus, and Acura.

You are all set

Internet forums serve as an echo chamber to build fear that all things mechanical are deeply flawed and may implode at any moment. In the 964 forum I thought mine with 150k miles was going to be useless soon without a rebuild despite it pulling strong. Internet says that you can only do 100k without a top end rebuild. Meanwhile, after I got rid of it, a bunch of mechanics that actually work on these cars tell me that it's not unusual for them to be fine for over 200k miles. The way I sleep better at night owning a 996 is knowing that if my engine ever grenades, I can pick up a used engine for relatively cheap and rebuild mine as a 3.8 at a later time. There are dozens of used engines available that can get you back up and running. You can swap it in your garage over a weekend (even if it's your first time). ​​​​At the end of the day, at worst, figure out what you'd do in the off chance it does grenade and either accept that is the price to play or get rid of it. If it's going to eat away at you, you won't enjoy it.

The 1999 3.4 has several things going for it on the bore-scoring issue. It has Ferrostan iron coating on the piston skirts ( stronger than the Ferro-print plastic coating used on 3.6) , it has longer rods/shorter stroke that leads to less side loading on the cylinders/piston skirts, the shorter stroke also means the piston doesn't come out the bottom on the cylinder as much at BDC, it also uses Lokosil I cylinder material instead of Lokasil II...

I figured I'd just take this head on and start investigating. May as well know what I'm facing. I haven't gotten to the other three yet (AOS,IMS and RMS), but will eventually.

These cars are not for the risk adverse, and luckily Jake has gone to great lengths to document and disclose many of the inherent issues. Any new potential buyers of a 996, with minimal searching on the internet, can now make a much more informed decision. Very hard in this day and age for someone to claim �Ignorance� post-purchase, which is best for the entire 996 ownership community.

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I wouldn't live your Porsche life walking on egg shells. If it causes you stress when you turn the key, then you've bought the wrong car. Overall, these cars are very reliable if you keep a close eye on the symptoms of problems and maintain them properly. That is, don't be reactive, be PROACTIVE.

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I always told myself I would buy a 996 with a mezger engine. As I started shopping, I realized there was something so great about a simple 911 with LSD and nothing else. So pure. i always knew bore score more of an issue with the later 996 and even more prominent with the 3.8 motors. My inherent nature is to learn about the intricacies of the vehicles I have acquired. I guess educating myself about the workings of the M96 has made me hyper aware of this particular situation.

I felt the same way when I watched all those videos. I respect Jake and what he has done, does, and is doing for the Porsche community. However, his presentation can be quite alarming. It's not a calming message. In his latest round of live casting discussions he has softened his presentation and said one thing that struck me. "The 996's are great cars. The only problem is the engine." That got me to thinking and investigating. I think for me I'm going to do all I can to make this current engine last as long as I can, which could be the life of the car. If it does implode I'll probably put a rebuild LN in it or send it to Raby. I rewatched all of his videos a year later and felt much different about the engine problem. I concentrated on the how to prevent bore score video. I feel informed this time around. These are not the cheapest cars to own. We knew that going in. Be encourage and enjoy the car!

Most standard 996's may eventually get bore scoring. Some at 30K miles, some at 300K miles. There is no right answer. When I purchased my first 996 Targa, I did have the cylinder's scoped to ensure I wasn't purchasing a time bomb. Sold the car to someone also knowing there was not a bore scoring concern. IMS, AOS and other items also addressed. That car had 70K miles on it, and had zero bore scoring signs, and I'm confident it will go many more miles before it shows any signs of scoring. That said, I did move up to the 996TT just over a year ago. Miss the Targa dearly, however the power from the X50 turbo is intoxicating.

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Then why didn't you buy one with a Metzger engine instead of the m96? Or just do it my way (see pic below)

Jake and the 996 Rennlist subscribers have put a many good threads together on protective measures. My comment on "Buy a Honda" was meant for a little humor at the situation we are all facing. I've said this many times in other threads, I have owned my 02 for nearly 19 years and wouldn't ever think about getting rid of it. 55k miles. Have tracked the car over the years nearly 80 days times at PCA DEs. Done everything you can do to the car for preventive medicine and bolt on upgrades. One day (hopefully-far) in the future the engine will go. I will gladly get it rebuild by Jake when the time comes. If you are not mechanically gifted (like me), find yourself a good Indy shop that specializes in the 996/997/986/987 , so they are in the mainstream data flow on what works. If you are mechanically gifted like a number folks on this thread, than you just saved yourself a bunch of money that you can spend on tires and brakes at the track. Most of all, don't let the challenges of the 996 get to you. Some of the stuff written on this forum would make anyone afraid of even starting the car "just in case". If you dig in deeper and ignore many of the unproductive comments, you will find excellent insight and on this forum on the latest solutions, new work-arounds and inventions, as well as logical steps to take. You got a great car. It will eventually need something replaced or rebuilt because it's mechanical, and over 20 years old. I remember when it was the "end of the world" when the RMS became prevalent. Then there was a simple fix. Next was the IMS, then there were two fixes from LN Engineering. After came the AOS of which there are a number of solutions with the ultimate AOS possibly as the best. Now it's bore scoring and Jake is on it. Not certain what the next one will be but there will be one. Why, because the car is 20 years old. Not many Honda Civics are on the road that long or you would be hearing about bore scoring or some issue. But who the heck wants to drive around a 20 year old Honda! Nobody. But everyone would love to drive around a 20 year old 911, because they are a classic beauty. Enjoy it. Drive it around town. Drive it on the track. Best way to exercise the car and keep it healthy. ​​​​

Don't believe the hype. If all you read about or focus on is engine scoring you will lose your mind. If you watched videos on heart surgery all the time, you would probably fear that you need one. If your vehicle doesn't have any symptoms of scoring, you don't have scoring, and you will be just like the overwhelming majority of Porsche owners whose cars don't have scoring. There is WAY too much fear-mongering on this and every other Porsche Forum about this subject.

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thanks all. I guess I�m a little rattled, pun intended, since my car is in the shop getting looked at for what I think is a chain tensioner issuer

eh, having been at the track for a while, many m96/m97s die. You can argue some are already worn, some are poorly maintained, etc but its a real problem. The issue with these motors is that the cost to fix many of the issues is so high. If it cost $5k to rebuild with top quality components like the S54 bmw motor, no one would care. But when you are spending $12k to do it yourself or $20k to have someone build it for you, only to still have some of the issues (oil pressure dips for one), its pretty disheartening. The design of the motor is just not very good. On a street car, I'd be less concerned, but overall, Id consider a different car if this gets you nervous.

In 16 years at the track with PCA DE events, never seen an engine go in a 996/997/986/997 during a DE. Seen many engines go. But not one of these. Not to say that they won't go. They certainly could and will. Just like all engines can and will. 911, 964, 993, etc. The point that you are alluding to is if this engine is the right engine to track. And the answer is that clearly, a 996 GT3 engine or Turbo would be a better choice due to being a better design. But as Jake has stated many times, a large part of the bore scoring problem has to do with the new fuel mixes implemented over the past decade or so. This will effect all engines, not just ours. As a side note, in the first couple of years of the 996 within the GrandAm series, Porsche raced our engines, not the Mezger engine due to GrandAm regulations. The race teams learned a thing or two about what worked and didn't work. Many of these teams developed some of the solutions we use today such as ways to address oil starvation and AOS issues. Sure, if I knew back in 2002 when I bought my 996 that in 2 years Porsche was going to release a GT3, would I have waited 2 years to buy one? Or would I have waited until the 2008 financial crisis and bought one for 50k? Sure. But the crystal ball is a little cloudy. So if you are a current owner of a 996 carrera, you are looking at many options but here are three to get the conversation started. (1) if you love the car due to its analog feel, balance and handling then keep it up to date on all preventative medicine and drive the car and enjoy. (2) if you are scared to death and are afraid to drive it, then you may want to sell it into a strong sellers market and find something else. (3) If you want the same car in GT3 form, then there is a premium cost to it above the Carrera for the engine. We can all get our Carreras set up to out brake and out handle a stock GT3. What we don't have is the Mezger engine and an extra 60HP. The question is if you want to "pay-up" for the GT3 premium, or call up FSI. (3) ​​​​if you love your car and don't want to get rid of it, then you can upgrade your engine to a FSI engine of which you will have no worries on the track or on the road, while gaining 80HP and possibly even a collector's premium for the car as Jake's reputation grows. ​​​​​​Clearly I am over simplifying the issues and choices, but there are many great choices. I got this car to drive and enjoy locally and on the track. Not to rub it with a diaper and keep it shiny while it sits in the garage for fear that a lower probability event occurs. Life is too short. Enjoy the car for what it is, the last of the great handling analog cars. More fun than any middle aged person can have that is legal.

Sorry, had to correct a typo on previous message. Here you go. In 16 years at the track with PCA DE events, never seen an engine go in a 996/997/986/997 during a DE. Seen many engines go. But not one of these. Not to say that they won't go. They certainly could and will. Just like all engines can and will. 911, 964, 993, etc. The point that you are alluding to is if this engine is the right engine to track. And the answer is that clearly, a 996 GT3 engine or Turbo would be a better choice due to being a better design. But as Jake has stated many times, a large part of the bore scoring problem has to do with the new fuel mixes implemented over the past decade or so. This will effect all engines, not just ours. As a side note, in the first couple of years of the 996 within the GrandAm series, Porsche raced our engines, not the Mezger engine due to GrandAm regulations. The race teams learned a thing or two about what worked and didn't work. Many of these teams developed some of the solutions we use today such as ways to address oil starvation and AOS issues. Sure, if I knew back in 2002 when I bought my 996 that in 2 years Porsche was going to release a GT3, would I have waited 2 years to buy one? Or would I have waited until the 2008 financial crisis and bought one for 50k? Sure. But the crystal ball is a little cloudy. So if you are a current owner of a 996 carrera, you are looking at many options but here are four to get the conversation started. (1) if you love the car due to its analog feel, balance and handling then keep it up to date on all preventative medicine and drive the car and enjoy. (2) if you are scared to death and are afraid to drive it, then you may want to sell it into a strong sellers market and find something else. (3) If you want the same car in GT3 form, then there is a premium cost to it above the Carrera for the engine. We can all get our Carreras set up to out brake and out handle a stock GT3. What we don't have is the Mezger engine and an extra 60HP. The question is if you want to "pay-up" for the GT3 premium, or call up FSI. (4) ​​​​if you love your car and don't want to get rid of it, then you can upgrade your engine to a FSI engine of which you will have no worries on the track or on the road, while gaining 80HP and possibly even a collector's premium for the car as Jake's reputation grows. ​​​​​​Clearly I am over simplifying the issues and choices, but there are many great choices. I got this car to drive and enjoy locally and on the track. Not to rub it with a diaper and keep it shiny while it sits in the garage for fear that a lower probability event occurs. Life is too short. Enjoy the car for what it is, the last of the great handling analog cars. More fun than any middle aged person can have that is legal.

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Initially felt the same way after watching the entire series. I haven�t noticed any symptoms yet (knock on wood) so I�m going to remain positive. Following all of Jake�s advice to hopefully prevent it. (warming up the 996 and oil change intervals, etc.) I�m also going to be proactive. Scheduling to have all the injectors replaced with new OEM ones ASAP. I really enjoy my 996 way too much to give up on it.

I can empathize with the OP. I was and still am a bit disappointed that my '99 has some scoring in one of the cylinders, and has a sound every few seconds at idle; but I deal with it. The car pulls hard, I change the oil with a good quality oil and filter, I check the magnetic drain plug, and cut open my filters. I've sent several test samples out, to keep an eye on trends, and I drive the car daily. Not much else you can really do from there. I guess for people such as myself and the OP, we could dwell on the fact that ours cars aren't perfect, and we could worry ourselves to death; but thats not how I have chosen my 996 ownership experience to be, and I hope others have chosen the same.

I've owned my 996 daily driver for 14 years, a year or so ago I thought my engine was " going to blow", ....had cold sweats, hives, and insomnia for a few days. Turned out it was just a phase of the moon or something and all was well with the world....

Porschetech, One of these days I have to talk to you about your ultimate aos. I think you are the engineer behind it? I have the GT3 aos on mine which at the time was the only solution and still works. However, I am slowing replacing parts as the car ages with the best solution I can find. Ultimate aos seems to be the one.

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Thanks GC, ready when you are....

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Do it ! To the OP - I offer you a solution... Take your car to the track and beat the ever loving **** out of it... It will do 1 of 2 things: 1. Blow up like you may be led to believe is a certainty by hanging around the forums 2. NOT blow up, run hard, sound great and power you to an awesome time in a truly great car giving you some confidence that the engine is not made out of glass. My money is on #2. Know your car, treat it right with maintenance, when you use it - try to USE it and keep in mind mechanical contraptions of all kind can and will fail as certain as the sun will rise. It sounds like you have taken good steps to mitigating that certain outcome for a long time - go get a return on that investment.

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Yes, given enough time. But any 911 will cost a lot of money over the long haul. You have to be ready and willing to have to rebuild the engine at some point, or have an unexpected $5k repair. It�s just the way it is. You could buy a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi for $50-$70k and still have repairs coming once the warranty is over. So to justify the 996, you might think that dumping $20-$35k over 10-15 years is not more expensive than buying a similarly equipped AMG, M, or S car from another German manufacturer. Porsche is still a better brand than those other examples, but it�s not going to be more reliable or any cheaper.

I just kind of think there are trade offs to certain things when it comes to owning an enthusiast car. The cost of entry on some of these cars can be steep and several on this particular thread got a rolling chassis and built an engine for less than buying another 996. The good news is there are good people that are engineering solutions as issues arise and newer tech means better overall quality in components. I'm already putting money aside for these types of situations if I ever needed to but I can definitely understand OPs troubles as at some point we've all wondered how we'd roll with that situation when it came.

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Oh, man, you've gotta go get a Covid test! Nooooo...no.... I just bought a 996.

Well, I learned many years ago after leaving LeJune, Top's last words to me: take care of the situation, or the situation will take care of you.....and given all the advice, comments, experience, and suggestions from this site along with Raby, Speed, Navarro, and a host of others we do have choices and services. Besides, I find the whole concept of wrenching on my car rather cathartic, especially during the current insanity taking place...