Tires rub

First time post so here it goes. My 01 Cab's front tires rub. They have 18" twist with 225/40/ pirelli P zero's. The car has a stock suspension and I cant figure out why they rub when turning the wheel more than 45 degrees in either direction. Any suggestion?

By the way I only feel it when getting out of a parking spot and not when driving.

How long has this been going on and have you made any recent changes to the wheels, tires, etc.?

Where do they rub? On both sides or just one side? Body work, wheel liner, suspension component? I run 225/40/18's w/stock suspension and no contact anywhere lock to lock. Something's out of whack....

How are you making that tires rubbing diagnosis? I suspect at full or nearly full lock you are hearing/feeling the normal scrubbing the inside front tire does.

There is no way the tires are rubbing on stock tires and stock suspension. If there is real rubbing something is broken or majorly wrong cause even with a 2" drop stock tires don't rub. As said above what makes you think there is rubbing? Add a pic of the fender where the paint is rubbed right off or inside the wheel well where the plastic fender liner is burnt through for the tire.

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Just bought the car last September and have put about 3k miles on it. No rattles or noises from suspension. The wheels and tires came with the car. The only thing changed was the color. I appreciate the feedback.

Sure looks like it's rubbing, and that sure looks like the right size tire.

What pressure are you running? I suppose if they were grossly overinflated, this could happen...

35 psi

Jeez, I hate to ask, but has the vehicle ever been in a collision before?

No signs of body repair. I just tried it and it didn't touch going side to side it just clears it. The last time it happened was when making a k turn/ u turn. Ill try to jack it up and see what happens during the weekend.

As several have said previously, you should have no problems running that tire size. Any chance the fender liner/plastic piece is loose or bent? If it isn't, I am afraid you have some larger concerns. Any recent pothole hits or sliding in the snow with the wheels locked? You might just need an alignment something fierce. Did you have it aligned when you got the car?

No pot holes its been in the garage all winter. I do think it might need an alignment. At higher speeds I feel the small vibe. Ill try that first.

I have 235/40-18s on my C4S and the tires get very close to the inner fender liner but do not rub. It would not take much of a hit to move the fender in far enough for a problem. Alternately, you could check for wheel spacers. They might move the wheel out enough for a rub at full lock.

I was considering bringing the wheels out for the look and it seems to be a good idea now. Im going to check the alignment and make sure there is no other cause. Ill definitely look into the spacers. Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Wouldn't spacers might make things worse?

Thought you were suggesting. No spacers are on it. I removed the wheels to paint them and none were on it.

Next seems like alignment. Too little caster might do it.

I'm not familiar with those wheels... What is the relationship between front and back? Exact same? Different backspacing maybe?

Only difference is the rears are wider.

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Exactly what I was thinking. The wheel looks to be sitting very close to the front of the wheel well compared to my car.

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With the right size tires fitted, with the stock (factory sanctioned) wheels fitted (no aftermarket wheels with "weird" offsets) and with no damage, you should not see the tires contact any part of the car. If the tires are contacting sheet metal you need to have the car looked at to ensure the "alignment" is Ok. I put this in quotes because no way should the standard alignment even if it was out should allow tire/body contact. While caster has been mentioned caster is IIRC not adjustable unless aftermarket suspension/steering hardware has been fitted. I dare say even if caster could be adjusted to the point the tires would make contact with the car's body such caster settings would give the car the steering feel on par of that of an old beat up grocery store shopping cart. With the car on the alignment rack the tech can turn the steering wheel lock to lock and confirm the clearances are within spec (by eyeball). He can then check the car's alignment to ensure that the alignment has not been severely tweaked to "straighten" a car that was bent due to an accident. Not saying this is the case with your car, but if the tires are making contact with the body the reason needs to be determined and no stone should be left unturned. If the tires are contacting the plastic wheel well liners this can arise if the wheel liner has come loose. These are held in place by one or more plastic rivets. While these things are pretty tough/durable they can fail over time and allow the liner to bulge outwards and the tire could make contact when the wheel is turned to full lock. The picture is not very good -- too dark -- but I think I see the liner appears to have a bulge in it that appears to not be normal.

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I agree with Macster and others. The liner seems to be the first thing to suspect as that is the piece contacting the tire. Hard to imagine alignment being out so far that this contact is happening. You might remove the wheelwell liner (it's fairly simple, search the forum or go to Pelican Parts website for info) and check the crossmembers and body metal behind the liner. Check the part number of the liner itself to make sure that it is the correct part for the car. For correct part numbers, search the internet for "PET" for the 996 Carrera which is Porsche's parts list/diagram. Then re-attach the liners with the correct expansion pins and plastic nuts to make sure it is seating properly.

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yes

Wow thats a lot of info guys. I will be taking the wheels off asap and giving it a good look. Hope its not a bad body repair and just the liner support thats bad.

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The driver side is closer to the front and no signs at all of an accident.

Measuring from the same point on the fender to the center of the wheel hub might give you a more precise way to measure the difference between sides - or at least use that as the anchor point for one end of the tape when measuring the distance between the tire and the corner of the fender - but dang, it sure LOOKS like the distance between the hub and the fender is less on the driver side. Weird. If the alignment was off that much on one side, I'd think you'd feel something off when driving.

I am thinking same as above. liner is not in right.

One could say that the "reference" to which you were measuring is not a valid reference, but I would find it hard to believe that the car could leave the assembly line with that much difference. Are you sure the wheels are both the right wheels with the correct offset? There can be an explanation for the difference: Years ago in my '96 Mustang GT on a dark and stormy night (morning actually) I pulled into an unfamiliar hotel parking lot and ran smack into a curb with both the front and rear tires on the right side of the car. Blew out both right hand tires and ruined the right front wheel. I managed to find a new front wheel and had two new tires fitted but the car's alignment was way out. I took the car to the dealer but the dealer was of no help. But Somehow I learned of an indy tire/alignment shop -- with a very good reputation -- and took the car there. The tech found the impact of the car with the curb had shoved the front cross member back on the right side. The thing had rotated around the bolts on the left hand side. Under the car one could see where the right hand side bolts that held the crossmember to the car had been. The tech loosened the bolts on the left hand side a bit and loosened the bolts on the right hand side more than a bit and with the help of a co-worker moved the cross member's right hand side forward back to where the bolt heads were back where they were before. He had to use a large block of wood and large sledge hammer to do this. But he got the cross member back to where the crossmember was supposed to be and afterwards the car's alignment was as good as it had been before. I dodged one big bullet. Now I do not know if your car has a similar crossmember that can possibly have shifted out of position. If so and if it has shifted -- and it doesn't have to be from an accident maybe someone did some suspension work and just bungled the job a bit -- then this can account of the differences between the sides, provided -- this is important -- the rear edge the wheel well is a valid "reference" to measure from. You will have to consult with a very knowledgeable Porsche body shop tech or his equally knowledgeable counterpart at a Porsche indy or dealer. I would hate to have you do to the expense of having the car put on a rack only to learn the reference you used to measure the difference is not a valid reference.

Looks like non stock wheels with wrong offset and or spacers.

Agree. The front wheels look like they stick out further than mine. Maybe its the black. Can you pull off the front tire and get a pic of the part number and offset. They look like stock OEM 18 turbo twists, but there are replicas with different offsets.

I too have to agree. That's the best/simplest explanation. I just checked my Boxster and the gap between the back of the front tire to the body is not the same on both sides. The gap difference is not 1/2" but it is something. So I don't think the OP can use the gap difference as reliable reference. Update: I checked this gap again this AM and this time the gap difference is much less, nearly the same. I think last night I didn't have the front wheels completely straight ahead which is why the gap difference was what it was. Still, I like the wrong wheels as the explanation rather than some accident damage or what have you.

Ill check the wheels but Im pretty sure they are stock.

It could be the "Italian" versions. lol

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This is where it rubs and the liner feels solid and not loose.

There are two types of factory turbo twists for the 996. Sorry for the ebay links but these are the best pics I could find These are the hollow spokes (and a good deal, actually - if they are real = the offsets and width seem wrong to me but I have never seen hollow spokes up close) http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-911-...b30d0e&vxp=mtr And these are the solid spokes. They should have a 993 part number on the inside and the offset after ET http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-986-...b95a72&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-986-...5bf71c&vxp=mtr

found another http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-996-...612c97&vxp=mtr

Mine have the 993 number

Damn. Was hoping for an easy fix. I would take the liner off next and reinstall it

So we still don't know what your offset, ET, is. On an 18" x 8" rim it should be ET 50.

Its ET50

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7.5 x 18 ET50 should give even more clearance when turned.

Wheel alignment seems to have corrected the problem. Thanks again

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I'll have to get mine looked at then, although they (right front) don't really rub until the wheel is locked over, and could very well be the plastic is loose.

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Where's my cookie for being right? Remember, always align any car that is new to you as soon as you buy it. Outside of an oil change, it is the cheapest and best thing you can possibly do. Outside of Fister D's, anyway.

Since I bought it I had the clutch,IMS,RMS and alignment done. Plus the PSE Hack and orange cap mod although I used a real rubber cap and ordered the right intake hose. Good advice appreciated.

From the above picture of the inside markings of your wheel I hope you noticed the serious hairline fracture of your wheel?!?

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Wow, I didn't even notice that. If that is really a crack, you shouldn't even be driving that car.

No I didnt. Ill take it off and check it out in a few. Talk about taking a good look at the pic 👍

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I don't think so as I've never seen a hairline crack that straight before in that portion of the spoke considering the load and spoke stress points but I could be wrong...

Maybe a mold/form seam shadow? That's the most perfect crack I've ever seen. Cue the "perfect crack" jokes.

Soyaudi, would you mind posting pictures when the wheel is turned and the alignment is now corrected? I just got an '02 C2 and literally noticed the exact same situation with mine. (Just got it back from my indie after IMS, front brakes, new clutch helper spring and two new front tires last Thursday.) For some reason I noticed the front tire Friday I couldn't get a hand between the tire and the liner. When it's turned, I swear it's rubbing. Thanks!

Weird thing is that it felt good for a day or two and then I noticed it did it again but not as bad. When I do the suspension Ill have it looked at again. Ill try to have a pic up sometime today.

You guys should make sure there were no hidden prior accident damage that wasn't reported. A body shop should be able to inspect it.

I have 19s in the front and rub too when i turn the wheel... but imo it doesnt matter too much

Well, better news on my front, at least. Alignment is fine, but '02 C2 can't wear 235 - shop will replace with 225s (Pir P-Zero for those keeping tab). I'm surprised it makes that much of a difference. As I mentioned, I recently took ownership of this car and had several "get it right" repairs in the shop. They just replaced with what original owner had on it. A note though, the radiator is right there at the front side of the wheel liner - was told they may have gotten deformed over time and a bulge on both sides. We looked at another 996 and same "hot spot" on it. That decreases the clearance, but really should not be an issue. A GT3 parked nearby actually had an indentation (formed, not worn) at the same place. Just fyi. Love the car though. I still owe a picture of my new-to-me.

I've got 235/35 19s on the front of mine along with H&R lowering springs and get a bit of rub at full lock in parking lots and such.

I have a 2001 C2 with the OEM Turbo look 18" wheels..exactly like the OP (7.5" wide with 225/40/18) and my front drivers side wheel is really tight. I am going to check for rub marks tomorrow but I wouldn't be surprised if I see them. I have rub marks on both sides. I assume whomever did the last alignment set it with as much caster as possible.

Here are a couple more pics. The paint is original and the CarFax was clean so I know that this is not due to an accident. I assume that most cars don't have this much caster adjustability and the alignment shop that a PO brought it to didn't know better? As far as the alignment, it is spot on and I don't have any shimmy or vibration even at highway speeds. My question is that would having the caster set all the way forward "dial out or in" some aspect of the handling? I know on my E36 M3 some owners prefer additional caster when using camber plates...IIRC to dial out some understeer (which the M3 has quite a bit of in stock form).