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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHOil filter debris
Leading reported evidence
Replace due
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
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0
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Last year, almost to the day, I had all 4 tensioner pads changed due to oil filter debris and moderate cam deviation numbers.
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Suggestion · Original poster
If I didn�t take the filter apart and go through it with a fine tooth comb, it looked �perfect.� So I�m guessing a lot of folks don�t check the filter like this.
Leading evidence: 'Replace due' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check filter like this' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I changed my oil yesterday and found lots of debris.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
(EDIT: You can not replace the chains in a 3 chain engine, In a 5 chain you can replaced the two chains that go around the intake/exhaust camshaft.)
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Those really soft bits appear to be silicon used for sealant (aka, gasket surfaces).
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Suggestion · Original poster
If I didn�t take the filter apart and go through it with a fine tooth comb, it looked �perfect.� So I�m guessing a lot of folks don�t check the filter like this.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Check filter like this
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Suggestion · Original poster
If I didn�t take the filter apart and go through it with a fine tooth comb, it looked �perfect.� So I�m guessing a lot of folks don�t check the filter like this.
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Suggestion
The vario-cam actuator pads/cam chains can be changed (those would be the brown bits) can be changed with the engine in (so I�ve read) but it certainly wouldn�t be easy/fun...
Replace prior, we still had bits floating around in there
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Suggestion · Original poster
Maybe the reason for the black bits last time was the filter caught these particles after they were circulating and the fact that the 4 tensioner pads were changed prior, we still had bits floating around in there.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
35 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
Still not a cheap solution but certainly not unobtainium...
I changed my oil yesterday and found lots of debris. About 2,000 miles and 1 year on this Motul 8100 5w-40 oil.
1999 5-chain motor, 66,000 miles
Last year, almost to the day, I had all 4 tensioner pads changed due to oil filter debris and moderate cam deviation numbers. But after seeing the debris, guessing I need to go and have the other pads replaced as well.
Video of debris:
You Tube
Also, alarmingly, I found 2 pieces of metal:
1.) Looks like an 3/4�-long wire. What the heck is that?
2.) One small flake of non-ferrous metal. Kinda looks like piston coating material? It�s dimpled.
Metal wire?
Metal flake
My bet it's definitely chain guide for the dark plastic bits... the metal flake appears to be ferroprint from the piston skirt. I'd scope the cylinders.
The plastic bits are certainly less alarming (actually fairly normal judging by the amount and size of the pieces). The �wire� and what looks like �ferro print�(piston skirt coating) not so much. According to Jake that�s one of the first steps in the bore scoring process (loss of piston skirt material). Bummer, but catching it early should help you mitigate further damage to some extent.
I think the wire came from the "OEM Dual Row IMSB". The integral wire lock sometimes breaks when removed ( and it can fall into the engine). Probably couldn't be found/removed without complete engine tear down, there is only 4 6mm holes for the oil to drain back from that area to the sump. Could have taken years for it work its way to the sump...
Thanks for responding Jake. Not that I�m aware of as far as retrofit. As far as I know, original IMSB, clutch, RMS, etc.
The sump plate was pulled a year ago, and they didn�t find much aside from some small plastic bits from the original tensioners.
Jake and Doc, and anyone else know might know,
What�s all involved in replacing the remaining tensioner pads on this 5-chain engine? Does the whole case have to come apart? And what else should be replaced at that point? Guessing the IMS tensioner should also be replaced? I read a Pelican article I think where they said to actually replace a couple of the chains.
The vario-cam actuator pads/cam chains can be changed (those would be the brown bits) can be changed with the engine in (so I�ve read) but it certainly wouldn�t be easy/fun... I think the rest of the paddles are interior to the engine... Good luck
In 5 and 3 chain engines you can change all of pads EXCEPT the two around the IMS chain / shaft without breaking the case half's. There are two more pads on each bank that you can change after removing the camshafts. You can not replace any of the chains without splitting the case
(EDIT: You can not replace the chains in a 3 chain engine, In a 5 chain you can replaced the two chains that go around the intake/exhaust camshaft.)
. All 3 tensioners should be replaced in my opinion.
In the 5 chain, 2 of the chains can be replace without splitting the case. I will be pulling my y2k motor and doing all the pads, chains and tensioners in about 2 weeks. If the op can wait ill try to post my details in a new thread.
And this $20 plastic part that will nearly demand a $15k minimum engine rebuild at 66k miles is why I�m seriously thinking of trading in my car for a Tesla Model 3 Performance:
Model 3 P: $56k
Porsche 996: $17k purchase plus $15k repairs/maint plus $15-20k engine rebuild = pretty much the same as a [brand new] Tesla Model P.
To me there is more to a car than how fast it will go from point A to B or how quickly it accelerates. Porsches are about the full driving experience!! That full experience just comes with a hefty price tag sometimes!
That sucks to hear, Mike, especially coming from a guy that does everything right with his car. Hope the fix is nowhere close to being what it looks like.
Thanks. We will see. Maybe I�m over reacting. If I didn�t take the filter apart and go through it with a fine tooth comb, it looked �perfect.� So I�m guessing a lot of folks don�t check the filter like this.
I�m probably going to be putting the car up for sale, either here on RL, or BAT or a trade-in.
As much as it sucks, I don�t yet think I have a bore scoring issue or anything too disastrous, just a $5k labor job to replace a $20 part.
The rest of the car is in great shape, and it might sell for $22-$25k on BaT, and I can get $13k for a trade-in, so I figure someone here might want to buy it for a discount (it�s not really a roller) and have a good chunk of money left over for the rebuild.
Because we all know that these cars might require an engine rebuild sooner or later, might as well get a good deal on one and then have money ready for a rebuild, LS swap, etc.
My kids are also just getting too big for the back. My daughter is 9 and she is already 75lbs and 4�11� and her legs touch my seat (I�m 6� even). And it�s a 21-yr-old car, so it�s becoming vintage/antique. Just doesn�t make sense to keep it long term for me.
That wire looks the same as the one on the dual row IMSB I just removed from my '00. It came out in three pieces. I would say it is possible to mangle it during insertion at the factory and it would not affect the operation at all. If it helps to identify, mine mic's out at 38/1000's.
^^^ Nah... Porsche is making and selling M96 short blocks - Plus there are plenty of surplus engines out there from wrecked cars etc. They'll never be cheap, but they won't be "unobtainium"...
That�s what I assumed before I drove a Model 3 Performance. I drove my 996 to the TM3P place, and then drive my car home. My car sits a lot lower, the steering is tighter, it�s louder, and more fun to drive for sure.
But the TM3P is not as boring as I thought it would be. Base model, maybe, but the P has lots of goodies and features that a performance person could appreciate. One thing I noticed right away is the direct feedback as to what the tires are doing, because there is no engine noise. I was surprised by this, but then I did make the switch from gas-powered go-karts to electric ones and had the same thought. The electric karts are still a blast.
You might be right about this. It could be like shooting a 44 Magnum revolver, or throwing a nice album on the turntable hooked up to a tube amplifier, or sitting down and hand-writing a thank you card.
With who, or where did you �check�? I�m sure if you went to your nearest dealership they�d be happy to find one for you (to the tune of $8k or so). Then all you�d have to do is take all the ancillary parts from your engine and put them on the short block... Still not a cheap solution but certainly not unobtainium... Link? Google it... you�ll find something
A question for Mike.
After having done an oil change on my 99 C2 (150,000 KM) I noticed soft brown plastic pieces on the oil filter. They were soft and very pliable - caramel brown in color. My first thought was IMS seal, but those tend to be black and rather hard.
What did the brown plastic pieces feel like that you got out?
Hopefully you're able to still enjoy the car somewhat.
jb
Here�s an older post of mine with pictures. See post #27 here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14659350
Those really soft bits appear to be silicon used for sealant (aka, gasket surfaces).
Just an update.
A year later, 2,000 miles, including a track day, and I have way less black plastic debris than last time. Maybe the reason for the black bits last time was the filter caught these particles after they were circulating and the fact that the 4 tensioner pads were changed prior, we still had bits floating around in there.
As for metal, nothing on the magnetic drain plug, and only the smallest metal specks were visible if you shined a light on the filter pad. Very difficult to see and super small. I didn�t check if they were magnetic. But anyway, much better than last time. If I had just looked at the filter without cutting it open, without any spotlight, it looked perfect. It was only when I went pleat but pleat with a spotlight that I found anything at all.
Makes you wonder how closely we should be inspecting these filters. Any �normal� inspection would reveal perfection, lol.
