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YOUR RESEARCHNew owner concerned with purchase
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Check from head
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The previous owner has said that the car is in really good condition and when he had bought it, he had it checked from head to tow and found no issues.
Leading evidence: 'Check from head' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'culprit and mine was borescoped' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check filter asap' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
checked the oil level and it was right where it was before I started the trip and the oil was clean.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
IMS, RMS, Clutch replaced 3 years ago, water pump and AOS last year.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Just got word on the car, they changed the oil and everything seemed good to go at first, however after a short time of running the oil pressure is not where it was before the oil change..
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The previous owner has said that the car is in really good condition and when he had bought it, he had it checked from head to tow and found no issues.
Unless the cylinders (particularly #s 4,5 and 6) were viewed by the horoscope from the BOTTOM, necessitating the removal of the sump plate, you cannot give the cylinder walls a clean bill of health.
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Good afternoon everyone! I am a new owner of a really nice 99 C2 that I bought last week. So far it has been an absolute dream to drive until I noticed a couple of things.. first I noticed a ticking at start up.. it goes away once the engine is warmed up and I asked the previous owner about it who said it could be the result of the thick 20w50 oil that he put in it. The previous owner has said that the car is in really good condition and when he had bought it, he had it checked from head to tow and found no issues. Another thing I noticed was the driver side exhaust tip is more sooty than the pass side. I will try to attach a video of the sound. But I have a failing that the previous owner just handed off a grenade with the pin pulled.
Change the oil, filter to approved oil (20w50 is not unless you live on the equator). That will give you a new baseline for oil changes anyway. The soot on the drivers side tailpipe is from Bank 2 (right side of engine) where the AOS breather hose attaches. Sort of normal to be a bit more sooty, but you might be in need of a new AOS depending on mileage/age/etc.
Yeah, not all that good to hear.
Both of those symptoms are things I experienced with my car and it had cylinders 4 & 5 scored to hell.
how's oil consumption? Any smoke on cold start up?
Here's a video of my car. i tried to capture all the symptoms I was getting...smoke on start up, the knocking at idle, LHS sooty tail pipe, etc.
You Tube
You said "Head to Tow", as in truck...Just thought that was funny. How long did the previous owner have it? Did you have a PPI done? Have you a good Porsche mechanic nearby?
Joe's suggestion is a good start.
Lot's of knowledgeable members here have discussed the ticking issue over the years, sit tight and one will be along to advise.
Keep us posted.
Yeah wrong oil. Try 5-40 or 0-40 Mobile one (forget all the fancy schmancy oils). Then see if you get a tick. Could be a noisy lifter as a result of the wrong oil. If you car has no service records, start off with a complete fluid change...oil and filter, brake fluid, coolant, serpentine belt, and air cleaner. Then drive the car and then stop looking for problems. If something bad happens, you'll be the first to know. Track your oil consumption and overall feel of the car. If you see oil spots on the floor, you've got a leak somewhere. Lots of oil, bigger leak, only a drop or two...a little leak. If you don't have a chosen Porsche wrench, get one now and have them look over your car. Walk around under the car with them. And then just drive and enjoy.
Thanks all for the helpful information, I can start with the oil change and go from there.. worst case senerio, if there is scoring.. how much could I sell the car for? I'm a youngish guy in the military about to start some hefty training and I don't have the spare time or money to fix this thing.
Ok... let's get this straight.
Here's what we know...
1. You're hearing a ticking sound at start up.
2. The owner used non-approved high viscosity oil
3. Driver side exhaust tip contains more than normal soot.
Question(s): Did you have a PPI conducted on the car before deciding to purchase it? Did you sign a bill of sale that states the car was sold "AS-IS"?
Personally, I agree with the above... go immediately and put 0W40 or 5W40 in this car. Inspect the filter for any signs of metal. Then... Drive it, breath easy and enjoy it, but monitor the ticking sound closely. If you bought the car as-is, it's yours to deal with warts and all, unless you feel the previous owner was being fraudulent and that's whole different discussion.
I hope things look up for you. I know if can seem unnerving to have problems immediately after purchase.
good oil (Motul 8100 xess isn't too pricey or DT40)
injector cleaner for good measure
check the oil filter
grab some video under the right & left sides of the engine. If the passenger side has the ticking, try to move the speaker near the heads and then along the center to identify where the sound may come from. I've mistaken injector pulse with lifter or other ticking, so video can help.
Looking at the bill of sale it does say as is. A PPI was performed by his Porsche Indy mechanic who I spoke to and gave the car a clean bill of health. I will upload some videos of the noise later on today. Again I want to say I appreciate every one helping out with this.. hopefully I'm just a paranoid new Porsche owner.
Change oil to Castrol full syn, proper weight.
Start engine with car cold, listen for ticking. Run engine until ticking stops, or engine is fully warm.
Turn off engine wait for 20 min.
Restart and listen for a change or absence of ticking.
Report results.
Ok. Been there. That ticking is not normal. But you don't know what it is. You need a diagnosis.
Option a - spend a few hundred and find out
Option b - sell as it, but you have to be honest and disclosing a tic drops the price way down.
Getting a diagnosis on line is not going to be enough
I would not freak out quite yet, but you need to be smart about this. There are a few cars on here experiencing this unique knock/tap/slap noise. My car is one of them. Some members are still driving their cars like this and have been for a while. I am not, and from my experience, this will only get worse.
If your car is behaving like mine, it does this on a cold start and runs smoothly after a minute or so. Based on this behavioir, my tech thinks it is the chain tensioner. But, I will be taking my car in next Monday to have an official diagnosis. If you still need help next week, I will post the results here on Rennlist.
I would not start the car for no other reason unless you have a qualified tech with you. This was probably missed in the PPI if the car had already warmed up on the way and running smoothly at the shop. Now, make sure you get someone who really knows Porsche to look at it and keep your head up. I know these cars can be a handful to a new owner.
Go relax Pete, have a drink. Any engine noise posted on the 996 forum will trigger "FML, RUN, FLATBED, CEF, YOU ARE ****ED, DISASTER" responses. The car is driving fine per your words and you didn't see any oil consumption over 1,000 miles.
Get a calm opinion from the Porsche shop, then proceed.
I would greatly appreciate what you find out. I was going to change the oil in it this weekend from the 20w50 that's in it to a 5w40.. other than that I want to get it looked at by someone asap.. hopefully I can wake up from this nightmare
When you change the oil, cut the ends off the oil filter and unroll it. Look for bits of metal. If you don't see any, that will give you some comfort until you can get a professional diagnosis. Eric
Changing the oil is definitely a good idea. I have no idea why someone would put oil in it that is not approved by Porsche to begin with.
I just want to clarify a few things so that I can be sure this is the same problem I am experiencing. Does the sound go away after a minute or so? Also, if you lightly blip the throttle when the sound is happening, does it smooth out and slowly fade back in as the revs come back to idle? This is the behavior mine has. In fact, some days mine makes no noise at all and this has been the biggest problem because I have had a friend who is a general tech try to listen, but it is never there..
Also, I just did an oil change and found no debris in the oil or filter. I am dropping the pan Monday to know for sure, though.
When I first got the car and drove it home it was perfect. The next morning when I started my voyage down to Florida it had the tick/knock right at start up but went away after it had warmed up a little. Every time I stopped for fuel I would check for noises and it sounded perfect.. checked the oil level and it was right where it was before I started the trip and the oil was clean. Once I got down to Pensacola and pulled into my driveway I checked again. No out of the ordinance you noises and oil was right where it should have been. The next morning I start it and it makes the ticking/knocking noise again til it warmed up.. only at idle when I'm up in the Rpms it's soooo smooth and there is no tick or knock.. only at idle on a cold start.
This is identical to my problem, therefore you will definitely benefit from my diagnosis. The tech I am seeing has been working on Porsches exclusively for over 40 years, so I trust he will be able to find the source of the noise.
I find it interesting that the few times I have heard exactly this noise, either in person or in a video, it has always been a 99 C2. Coincidence?
I'd be willing to bet when you do an oil change the oil will be clean/new. I bet previous owner figured a heavier oil would help quiet down what you are hearing in an attempt to try and down play it. I'd do an oil change and check the filter asap. I'd also send the the oil to black stone.
not trying to scare you, but you need to approach this methodically.
What did you buy it for?
Haha that is the sad reality. I have heard many 996s tick, knock, rattle and slap, but the particular sound I hear in this video I have only heard come from 99 C2s. Probably just a coincidence.
The oil is brand new.. about 2.5 weeks old. Paid 20k for the car. I'd figure a car that's almost 20 years old would need some things here and there.. but I feel like this guy shamelessly took me for a ride
You need a pro diagnosis rather than a bunch of guys speculating(like me) on the internet. Find a local indy shop, give them a few hours, and let them see what they see. I might recommend a leakdown test along with a standard compression test, and a borescope. I was hoping it would just be an exhaust leak, but after hearing that sound, it's doubtful that's any kind of cold exh leak. Sounds deeper to me, but that's not a diagnosis.
Well, you did make some mistakes with the purchase but that does not excuse the seller if he in fact new about the issue.
Just don't panic until you get a proper diagnosis...
How many miles? Post some pictures.
I would start a new post asking for recommendations for a shop in your area.
Just listened to your "start up noise/tick" and it sounds like "maybe" a sticky lifter..."maybe". But to be honest, it doesn't sound very loud next to the regular engine noise. I think you should drop it off at a shop and let the guy hear it in the morning when it is stone cold. But don't start imagining all the horrible things that it probably isn't. My first 996 (2003) ticked in the morning on cold start and quickly went away...same with my 06 997...and same now (but to a lesser degree) with my 2000 996. Just drive the car and stop scaring yourself. The time to worry is when it doesn't go away. In the meantime get the correct oil in it. Buyer's remorse because of horror stories and fear is the leading cause of unhappiness among 996 owners. Much much rarer is actual mechanical disaster.
Pete,
Just went thru the ticking engine problem. Was sure it was something awful enginewise and of course I inhaled all the dreadful internet possibilities. Took my car to Vortex Motorsport in Tampa. Turns out it was a failing Catalytic converter. They installed a new 200 cel xpipe and bingo all rattles & tics are gone. Sounds great too! Good luck
Dave
This might sound strange, but the lifters with heavy oil in them will take some time to flush new oil through. If it's related to a lifter, you are advised to take a long drive and get the temps up for a while. Oil doesn't cycle through this tiny lifters very fast. Run it for at least 45 minutes, and an hour would be even better. Run the AC so you stress the engine well.
Good luck.
Just got word on the car, they changed the oil and everything seemed good to go at first, however after a short time of running the oil pressure is not where it was before the oil change.. getting worried... tried to get some answers from the previous owner and is insulted that I'm questioning his integrity
I called this one. There is only one reason why a seller would put 20w50 in before selling it-to mask low oil pressure. Post back with cold and hot oil pressure when you get the car back.
Oil pressure would be much higher at 20w50. Post how much oil-pressure the factory gauge reads when hot. 1 bar or just around that area when HOT is normal.
FWIW the manual states oil pressure should be over 3.5bar at 5,000rpm. Not sure if you're wanting to drive until you get it sorted. Would probably be a good idea to not.
Anyway don't pull the pin just yet, it could be something simple like a broken oil pressure relief spring or even an incorrectly installed filer. Although its most likely not any of those try and stay positive.
Do some research as there is quite a bit of information regarding low oil pressure. The more informed you can be the better decisions you can make.
FYI, I have an extra '99 C2 engine laying around that's in great shape with 88k miles on it. I'd take $6500 for it. It has all accessories attached so it's a very easy swap. IMS, RMS, Clutch replaced 3 years ago, water pump and AOS last year. Also have a year's worth of Used Oil Analysis results.
I think you need to take some medication and relax. And give us some facts or else stop this thread. Do you have an actual quality Porsche mechanic looking at this car?
What is the oil pressure at idle when you start the car in the morning, stone cold?
What is the oil pressure at idle when the temp gauge is just over 180?
What is the oil pressure at 3500 rpm when the temp gauge is just over 180?
Are you aware that erratic old pressure readings are usually the result of a failing oil pressure sensor?
Have your wrench change the sensor and see what it reads then.
And for gods sake stop talking about selling the car when you barely know anything about it.
In a worst case scenario, the engine offered by someone here is the best way to go. And then just remember why you bought the car...to enjoy it.
You need to just relax and wait for a proper diagnosis. It could be simple considering the warms up and drives fine. If you still want to get rid of it after, you can, but it is best for you and the buyer to know what is wrong.
Get them to drop the oil pan, too.
Even if someone gives you 10K if you can't cover the lein no title. I had an old ford truck with a rod knock I bought for $50. I drove it on truck errands for two years and gave it away. It was still driving then too.
my advice would be to save up $6500 for the replacement engine and drive it like you stole it. This could very well be a much ado about nothing scenario. You won't know until you get a good diagnosis, it blows up or nothing happens. All the guessing and worrying will do nothing but raise your blood pressure and rob you of sleep. It's a car not your child.
For the the cost of a good diagnosis or one HPDE you will know if it's terminal or not.
That's a very generous offer ... If I could figure out how to stash it in the back of the garage where Mrs. KoB wouldn't notice it, I'd be calling you myself
OTOH, I do have some skills in that regard ... I once concealed a Harley V-Rod well enough that my mother -- who is normally pretty observant -- walked past it several times without noticing it. To this day she thinks I gave up motorcycles about 20 years before it actually happened.
Have you found reputable Porsche shop yet? You're just wasting your time speculating endlessly until you do. Before you spend more time worrying about what may or may not be wrong take it to someone that can tell you definitively. If you're hell bent on taking a 10k loss then put it up for sale and be done with it. But to answer your earlier question, no I don't think you can sell it for 10k with a bad engine.
This is reminds me of the thread a while back where OP was convinced his engine was stolen by his shop.
IMG_8779.jpg
Ok sorry all for the delay just spoke with the shop they pulled the oil filter adapter off and replaced it with the OEM canister filter housing.. that brought the oil pressure back up to where it should be.. so that's good.. however apon inspection they noticed these bits inside the filter adapter and spin on oil filter... and the ticking is constant now.
Looks like fish poop. Okay so the ticking is continuous now...and I assume it also increases in speed with engine rpms.
Ticking is not knocking and personally I think that is a good thing. So now tell your well qualified (with solid references) Porsche wrench to diagnose the ticking, tell you how much it is going to cost, and then to fix the car and make the ticking go away.
I had my tiptronic die after eight months of ownership. I bought a 16 year old car...parts get old and break...it cost me $6000 all told to fix it. And that is still cheaper than buying a new Porsche.
I assume you bought the car because you really wanted it. So take the good with the bad and get back to enjoying it.
Sorry, I was multi (cooking) tasking. I meant may have had the wrong filter. Anyway, it sounds like you're making headway and I hope it turns out better then you first thought. Is the car still with them?
That is why the tech thinks mine is making some noise. Mind you, they havent looked at it yet. They said it is most likely the culprit and mine was borescoped already. No scoring.
So just to clarify you had the spin on filter adapter with a spin on filter and the tech replaced it with the OEM housing and filter which improved the pressure?
What kind of filter was the spin on?
could be. making the chains loose and letting them slap against the paddles will cause them to break peices off those guide rails. and make noise.
but I'm guessing here.
To everyone that commented on this thread the past couple of days, is just like to thank you all for the help and guidance through this unnecessary stressful time.. even though she will need some work done it seems like it is not as serious as previously thought.
What is known at this time is no cylinder scoring... further diag is required to determine what is making noise but no cylinder scoring is a good start
No...just the trans crapped out. Inside toast. Replaced with used trans from LA Dismantler ($1900) plus then gave it a service plus some other items I had done that are not related to the trans.
Unless the cylinders (particularly #s 4,5 and 6) were viewed by the horoscope from the BOTTOM, necessitating the removal of the sump plate, you cannot give the cylinder walls a clean bill of health. M96 scoring begins at the bottom, after the pistons have deteriorated because thats where the case is last to warm and because the stroke turn around has the piston lingering the longest, at BDC in the cycle.
Sorry. But, to be sure, look at the cylinders that way. Best of luck.
A good Porsche guy with a mech stethoscope can be useful now.
How much driving have you done since new oil and new filter? Removing the full flow filter is really not a solution here. The full flow, no bypass filter is actually the better system, but If you're happy, that's fine. I suggest the stethoscope, to try to localize, and then a good warm run if it may be a lifter to re-inflate. If it's not lifter related, oh well...
